#also medical paranoia is a totally valid and common thing

[savvylittlecoxswain]

Bobby with commitment issues because he’s afraid that one day he’ll just drop dead and doesn’t want to put someone through that.

[jimothysomebody]

Recovering From Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome

It's difficult to gauge exactly where to start, considering the many nuanced factors that lead me here. For awhile it felt like I was dealing with some wretched mystery ailment. After my breakup there was a period of time where money was tight and I wasn't eating well, in part because money was tight and in part because of a long struggle with self image, self loathing, and just a warped and unhealthy perspective of myself. What a stupid, stupid thing it was to subject myself to that degree of harm and malnourishment. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

In late March, somewhat coinciding with my old vape pen breaking, I began to feel a bit unwell and I wasn't sure why. Brainfog, difficulty concentrating and remembering, poor sleep (and that's saying something) headaches, strange dizzy spells and a weird feeling in my head, unusual episodes of elevated anxiety, stress, and depression beyond what is 'normal' for me, stomach issues, changes to my appetite, fatigue, apathy. Some days were better than others, some days were hell, other days I may have one awful episode and be otherwise fine the rest of the day, sometimes a day or so would pass without incident at all and I'd feel totally normal.... but these terrible symptoms kept coming back

Initially I believed it to be the lingering effects of having been anorexic from early February to the beginning of April... but April, May and now most of June have come & gone... and these symptoms have persisted.... what else could it have been?

I figured, outside of the extreme episodes of anxiety, the most likely cause was the effects of tapering off of, and eventually quitting weed. The conclusion I drew was that, surely, I must be experiencing Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome, brought on by increased use of medial grade weed and an increased vaping of delta 8 around this time. It was also my theory that because I didn't do it daily, just used a *lot* every few days or on weekends, that my inconsistent pattern of high dose usage was keeping me in a state of withdrawal that wouldn't stop until I made myself quit. My preferred method was vaping, but I began with edibles July of 2023... for nearly a year my already chemically imbalanced brain became accustomed to a regular supply of THC, surely... surely the cessation of cannabis would have put my brain in a state of crisis and rebellion as it attempts to reset the dials back to my “normal”, right? Much of the literature I read seemed to validate my worries, between credible medical publications from all over, the US, Canada, Australia, the UK, I poured over the findings and data of medical professionals and everything seemed to point to that... what has now worried me the last 42 days I've been sober was the fact that, for most, they seem to be through the worst of it within 2wks to a month... but still I contend with these symptoms. Maybe...just maybe, I was too hopeful and by some twisted hellish coincidence I was, unknowingly, affected by something more dire... there are many, many far more life threatening conditions that share many of those symptoms in common... and that thought has come and gone since March... Friday afternoon I finally humored my paranoia that told me to stop toying with my mortality and went to the ER to get checked out.

They drew blood, did urinalysis, an EKG, chest xrays, and a CT scan of my head, every test came back normal, nearly everything was ideal, save for what results have been effected by a recent brief regimen of prednisone to help with my tenosynovitis (which also significantly improved my withdrawal symptoms)... and in the sea of test results even those *slightly* abnormal results didn't bother me, knowing exactly what caused them.

The test results have given me a lot of peace of mind... I now know definitively, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that what I am experiencing does not have a physical cause... it is instead chemical as my brain tries to regulate itself back from a year of a lot of vaping and edibles. I do not have brain cancer, any brain damage, any debilitating neurological condition, internal bleeding, blood clots, nor do I have any heart or lung condition. No abnormalities were detected... It's just withdrawal, and I can get through this. I've been tempted to vape, a few times. I miss having a mild high, but mostly I miss the relief that comes with it for my anxiety, my depression, ptsd, mild pains, etc. There hasn't been any strong compulsion or urge to use again, in fact not unlike my alcohol I still have (almost 7 months sober now) my vape pen is in plain sight just on my bedside table, where it has, literally, been collecting dust since May 12th. I have had one or two dreams about weed/vaping though, which I suppose isn't a totally unheard of sort of dream to have for people quitting.

I'm set to see yet another therapist soon in July, and shortly thereafter, I imagine, another doctor. I'm not sure what the plan of attack will be, considering the chemical imbalance is now influenced by quitting weed. In the past I've seen a lot of success with SSRI's like sertraline/Zoloft, in treating my depression, with some positive changes to my anxiety as well, it'd certainly simplify things to be on just one med but I'm not optimistic that will be the case, nor do I don't know just how effective sertraline would be while recovering from PAWS... I do know this much, compared to how I felt in April I feel, generally speaking, significantly better. I do still experience all the symptoms I've described but to a lesser degree and with less frequency and diminished duration compared to how I had been previously... it is my belief that, with time and resolve I will make a full recovery from this horrid months long trial. I really think I'm gonna be okay.

[compassionatereminders]

I know you can't tell me if I'm good or bad, but could you advise me on whether I should seek help or not with an issue? I'm the type that has a long fuse and gives second chances, but tries not to tolerate bullshit & ends up holding grudges if you cross my boundaries or push me past a certain point [which is hard to put into words. I operate on a three strikes you're out system.] Like, I hold onto things. I may forgive, but I don't forget and my trust fluctuates accordingly (idk if this counts as a grudge but).

Anyways,, I've also had folks push me past the point where I care and that's a tough spot to come back from. It's not that I wish them harm, I just don't care about them or their doings.

But. On 2 occassions I've been pushed past that point, and started having thoughts where I wish them harm. This is what I'm somewhat worried about. I don't and haven't harmed anyone, I'm not even sure these thoughts are mine fully-like I think they may be intrusive-All I do is sit with it, and let it pass..but I'm worried that this indicates something sinister or perhaps means I'm not making as much progress as I thought. Idk, maybe this is a normal thing, but everything I've seen (which is trash media tbh) says it's not.

I have been trying to figure out if these thoughts are intrusive-but it's difficult since they are few and far between, and any other time I'm indifferent like I'm not wishing them harm, I just don't care. Plus...it took months to realize my regular brand intrusive thoughts were intrusive. These thoughts definitely could be-but what if they're not y'know?

Ah but this is kind of long..sorry. Should I try to speak to a professional about this? Ask them that last question, and for some help in figuring it out? Or do you think I should spend a little more time on it by myself? I've had time to mull it over (about 3 months) but the times where it's been like that doesn't total more than 3 days. Both are valid answers, and if I did stay the course of doing it myself I'd give it another month or so and revisit the idea of seeing a professional.

I'm also asking because I'm heavily biased towards avoiding medical professionals of any kind due to medical trauma & paranoia. But they say the first step to fixing an issue is to recognize you have one! 😅 so maybe I'll be able to recover from it one day. For now, I'm just scared of being retraumatized or forced inpatient without my consent, and no way to leave (which is what makes me a little nervous to talk about these things with my doctor/therapist admittedly.)

Thanks for reading, and for any advice you have Kat.

I honestly don't think what you're describing here sounds abnormal or worrying at all. Being really angry with people who hurt you is actually a common trauma reaction - and as long as you're not planning to act on these thoughts, they're not inherently wrong or bad. Especially not if they're few and far between and make you upset and scared when they do occur. So as long as you're not actually a danger to anyone, I really don't think you need professional help just for being angry with people who hurt you. No, not even if you sometimes wish them harm. That's a pretty normal and quite common response to getting hurt and not something you need to pathologize unless you start fearing you might act on it. Your thoughts can't hurt anyone and thus they don't define you.

[feathery-dreamer]

I’ve been told to watch this pathetic excuse of a video during an argument, now I’d like some of my brain cells back. I couldn’t sit through more than fifteen minutes of this shit, it was just too tiring and tedious (I started around 8 and it’s past 11.30pm here right now). I think I made my point anyway, it’s a good prediction that the rest will be as piss-poor as the first quarter.

For clarity’s sake, I’ll be bolding the minutes, “quoting the guy” normally and putting up the “anti-vegan arguments he quotes” in italics.

1) “remains of murdered animals”? The term “murder” refers to unlawful killing of a person, stop using it for shock value.

2) It’s “barbaric insanity” to eat meat? since when? People have been eating meat for thousands, if not millions, of years. Before animal husbandry was a thing, it was from hunts (when successful) and carrion. Civilized and sane people eat meat because it provides a bunch of elements I won’t bother detailing right now.

3) “moral superiority of veganism” ...lol okay, I guess people with iron or cholesterol deficiency are morally inferior.

4) We’re at the one-minute mark and there’s already some shitty chart that puts going vegan on the “reasonable” extreme.

5) "genocide” is killing off people for belonging in a certain group, not to eat their remains (that’d be cannibalism). Once again, a word has been repurposed for the sake of shock value and to make meat-eaters sound like monsters. This bitch just equated animal slaughter with the war crimes committed by the Nazi. Does that sound “reasonable to anybody? because it’s not.

6) “indoctrination” ...oh? You claiming to be superior and misusing words to manipulate the viewer isn’t “indoctrination”, I presume? I’ve heard that from extremists of all types, including the Islamists ruling my own birth country (Turkey).

7) “speciesism”? Literally every single animal prioritizes their own kind over others! Is that so fuckin hard to grasp? no, it isn’t! it’s basic survival instinct. We humans are animals, we aren’t above cows or sheep or chickens when it comes to instinct. We use other species because we’re animals just like them, not because we’re superior in any way.

8) Since we only eat the muscles, it’s completely logical to put the rest to good use. We’ve barely hit the two-minute mark out of 63.5 and I’m already sobbing from the stupidity of it all.

9) “indoctrination” again? Your digestive tract doesn’t give two fucks about your morals or propaganda. It’s adapted to the meat-eating that’s been occurring in your family tree for millions of years. Following tradition that suits your biology isn’t fucking “indoctrination”, it’s being logical.

10) You’re comparing use of animals to human exploitation. I’m not saying the meat industry is all rainbows and singing, but... really?

11) “psychopathic indoctrination” WELP! now you combined a misused word with your compulsive, hypocritical accusation. Two words, each representing an aspect of your inability to be coherent. Good fucking job, mate, keep up that attitude.

12) Since when is there “a taboo against criticism of animal abuse” or criticism of religion? Now I have ample evidence that you’re either delusional or manipulating people. We’re at the three-minute mark and you managed to add paranoia to the list.

13) “plants are sentient” Science says they are, mate. There’s ample evidence that plants have a chemical reaction to getting harmed, and thus “it can feel pain” isn’t a valid excuse to not eat animals.

14) And lol “vegans are condescending”, of course we say that because you very clearly are. Arguing your superiority based on a lifestyle choice you can afford to make; if that’s not condescending, I don’t know what is.

15) “I need animal products to be healthy” is the most valid reason to not go vegan. If you think that’s just a knee-jerk “pathetically weak” argument to hate vegans, you’re a moron (but we already knew that, didn’t we kids?)

16) “dense cluster of pathetically weak argumentation, driven by fear of change and indoctrinated delusion”, “usually deployed in rapid fire, one after another, ad nauseum, until the vegan grows tired and gives up” ...I’m adding projection to the list haha~

17) So we’re at the four-minute mark, and with barely less than a full hour remaining, you’re only now starting to actually counter anything. Oh me, if all your counterarguments are like the previous, this should be goooood~

18) ...aaaaaand you already brought the “holocaust” bullshit and the arrogance back right away. I’d like to remark you still haven’t actually contributed anything to the discussion.

19) Your first argument boils down to: “redefining morality in a certain way doesn’t work because I can redefine it another way”. That’s funny, because you (and morons like you) have been redefining words to your convenience for a long time. There’s no “double standard” or “contradiction”, the definition of a word doesn’t have to include anything other than what’s in the definition. That’s what a definition fucking is, it tells you what is or isn’t covered by that word. Whaddya know, you managed to cram all of this nonsense between four and five minutes.

20) “Morality doesn’t exist” Sounds to me like you’ve been cherry-picking the worst anti-vegan arguments. Too bad your counter is equally weak here - even if morals didn’t exist, we still would hesitate to kill humans because survival of the species means we prioritize humans over animals.

21) Just past six minutes, you’re bringing up concern for the well-being of sentient beings. Does that mean you support people who eat meat because their doctor tells them to? Does that mean you’re against people forcing vegan diets on their dogs, creatures whose diet is mainly meat? I think, with number 15 up above, we already know the answer to that.

22) What you sum up as “self interest” and “arbitrary lines” are the self-preservation I described in number 7, the one you called “speciesism” because somehow it’s discrimination when humans do it.

23) At the seven-minute mark, “logical consistency doesn’t apply to morality” ...you’re the last person to criticize someone for arguing inconsistent logic lol

24) Once again, your “anthroperipheric” definitions fail because, unlike the “anthropocentric” ones, they leave out survival of the species. Morality may be subjective, but that doesn’t mean it’s 100% subjective; the “survival of the speices” aspect sure isn’t. That’s why killing other humans is called “murder” and considered a serious offense, whilst killing animals for consumption isn’t.

25) Oh-kay, now you made a mental leap from “killing X for consumption” to not “caring about X’s well-being”. Just because I eat meat doesn’t mean I don’t care how those animals are treated. Instead of arguing your “moral superiority” and strength, how about you encourage people to buy from a select few, non-abusive places? You had enough time on your hands to compile all this shit instead of doing something to stop the abuse. Something tells me you don’t actually care about those sentient animals’ well-being, as much as your image as a “morally superior” human.

26) We’re at eight minutes, I identified more errors in your logic than you were claiming to present; more are coming. According to that list, you're preparing to dismiss the opinion of a doctor as well as a person’s experience with morals.

27) “...not a single death or health problem attributed to veganism.” There are loads of health problems attributed to veganism. Just because you haven’t looked them up doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

28) You don’t know the diet of those athletes. It’s a good bet they’re taking loads of supplements to compensate for lack of animal foods intake. Unless they just happen to have access to all (and not just some) of the other foods, in enough abundance to compensate. Either way, they’re also being accompanied by personal trainers, medical professionals and a slew of other experts. Last time I checked, the common human being wasn’t as closely monitored; you occasionally visit a doctor you share with dozens of other people.

29) I just made it past nine minutes, not sure I should congratulate myself. You just looked up the general types of nutrient we need, whilst trying to “counter” an argument about specific nutrients. Even if you’d found foods containing the stuff you need, there’s no guarantee there’ll be enough of that thing in your diet. Most people don’t have the time to spend hours eating, they’re too busy running businesses or transporting people or doing surgery etc.

30) Exactly ten minutes of bullshit, we’re encountering the second decent counter of the entire video. I’ve yet to hear the “blood type” argument from meat eaters, to be honest, but I do agree it’s silly. In my knowledge, there’s no real link between the antigens on your red blood cells’ membrane and the types of foods you require. That depends on your ancestors’ diet, which (like I explained in 9) includes animal products for many of us.

31) You really think there are no health issues associated with veganism? <- that link took me five seconds to find. You talk about “burden of proof”, but you refuse to shoulder any of it yourself. You mock people for not having the muscle strength to type a search in Google, yet you won’t do it either.

32) “...none of them actually provide evidence that veganism can’t support their health.” Those arguments... literally ARE the evidence you demand. Are you sure you aren’t really just trying to make yourself look like a total moron? Because you’ve more than succeeded in the first eleven minutes of this video, the remaining 52mins can go home.

33) “vegetables don’t make you sick” no, but eating only vegetables can.

34) "Carcasses” don’t make you sick, eating them in excess does. See? I can reverse your arguments too. But where your counters ignore things that’re convenient to you, mine doesn’t.

35) Does IBS stand for irritable bowel syndrome? because that’s just a blanket term that covers a variety of different symptoms and ailments. I can think of a number of conditions that can make it harder to absorb nutrients from plants, or react more positively when animal proteins are present.

36) “Unless you’re actually in the situation, you can’t appeal to it...” and after twelve minutes: “you can’t appeal to hypothetical situations that you aren’t in...” Does that mean your previous arguments 27, 28, 31, 32 and 35 aren’t valid? I’m sure it does unless “logical consistency doesn’t apply to morality” for you. Also, good job bringing up the misuse of “murder” and “genocide” as buzzwords for your conveniency.

37) We’re controlling animal populations because, well, they reproduce enough to compensate for the losses. We don’t kill off humans because, unlike non-sapient animals, we have birth control. Besides, if we let deer populations grow, they won’t die off quickly and balance themselves; they’ll first eat all of the plants they normally eat (practically to extinction) and then starve to death. Does that sound like a moral alternative to hunting them? what about the well-being of those sentient creatures?

38) At the thirteen-minute mark now, you sure seem to love the words “murder” and holocaust”.

39) The... planet... will be destroyed because we kill animals? The planet has managed itself perfectly, even after meteor impacts and supervolcano eruptions. At this point, you’re treating humans like some sort of almighty demonic force.

40) “this argument could be made for slavery” ...centuries ago, yes; is that the time you’re living in? Because I’m sure I heard you imply, in your introduction, that those times were less complex and ethically inferior.

41) Farm animals had been bred over hundreds of generations to live alongside humans, rely on us to meet their basic needs (food, protection...). It’s perfectly reasonable to expect that, if released, they’ll either seek human company (and overwhelm people in the process) or get quickly killed off by predators in the wild. Even if it happens gradually and they don’t go extinct, there’ll still be suffering.

42) I just reached fourteen minutes, I wish I hadn’t agreed to watching the video. While you’re right that the extremes “animal apocalypse” and “animal extinction” can’t occur at the same time and place, there’s nothing preventing them from occurring in that order, and/or in different places.

43) “Clearly, there are still natural habitats in which our farmed animals can exist” and get killed in by predators. Which could then proliferate to excess, eating more and more prey until it runs out, then starving to death. We’ve already considered this scenario for herbivores in 37, didn’t we children?

44) The harmful practices you’ve brought up have been criticized by researchers, so now there are efforts to regulate and even forbid them. But agriculture itself isn’t to blame, and some of the things you list (such as deforestation and pollution) aren’t limited to animal farming. You even cover this when you mention the need for extra space for plant culture at fifteen minutes, yet you feel compelled to bring it up as a separate argument?

lol I’m so done