#also i think the prospect of being The Boss of Sam Forever is mostly like. a source of horror to dean?

[shinelikethunder]

so for the record i fully blame you for the fact that i'm watching supernatural for the first time in 10 years or so, but ALSO one of the things that is fundamentally crunchy and compelling about sam and dean's relationship, imo, is that it's a constant, unceasing power struggle that they are to varying degrees aware of but mostly won't admit to

(sam, particularly, i think most desperately wants to /win/ the power struggle for good while also being the least likely to admit that it's actually happening. dean's investment feels much more situational - he wants sam to go along with his plans in the moment but isn't necessarily that invested in Being The Boss Of Sam Forever, whereas i think one of sam's deepest and most shameful unrealized desires is for dean to submit to him permanently, and the place where i depart from most wincest shippers is that imo what makes that really juicy is that dean doesn't want to do that.)

anyway! some thoughts on a fandom i haven't really interacted with at all since 2011, just for you lmao

yes! tbh it's one of an entire subgenre of ships that hit real good for this exact reason: an equality that comes, not from both of them being wholesomely egalitarian and refusing to ever seek the upper hand on one another, but from them constantly being in a billion little squabbles and wrestling matches both petty and consequential, even as they're earnestly trying to negotiate conflicting needs. and none of it is ever even going to settle into a single fixed pattern, let alone result in a permanent and definitive "winner." they both have their expected roles in this dynamic, and they both constantly shift between chafing against those roles and embracing them and instrumentally leaning into them to get something else they want.

it's so pleasingly crunchy... yet another reason i cannot vibe with whatever's in the water right now that's driving people to stan either the ship or the characters by picking one brother to be The Woobiest Victim Forever. like. that's not just getting carried away with a temptation i otherwise understand, that is actively sucking the fun out! even when it's my favorite little rat in the Blorbo Studies Lab who's the designated woobie, the static designation is less fun than the sharp-elbowed version where they both get to #Transgress against each other.

(i think dean is subby in the sense of getting a HUGE kick out of situations where he can safely hand someone else the reins, and/or stop agonizing and just get an A in being the goodest boy in the world by finding out what will please someone else and doing it. but oh my god, any attempt to extend that dynamic into situations of genuine conflict or threat? yeah no, the exact constellation of responsibility issues (and free will issues, objectification issues, self-worth issues, etc) that make those kinks so potent also mean that if the fun game turns into a real encroachment... best-case scenario, he snaps into Amalgamated Macho Archetype defensive panic and is probably a blustering shithead to reassert control. if he initially goes along with whatever it is, for sam's sake or because lol what are boundaries, that is Much Worse. because it sets up this ticking time bomb, resentment buried underneath compliance, and that is going to very specifically bring his thermonuclear John Winchester Issues into the fray.)

[gautierprotectionsquad]

Saint and the Sinner by Sam Burns review (contains spoilers)

Book 4 of the Wilde Love series.

I don’t know why i call these reviews. they’re more like reactions. I end up spending a large part of this post angry ranting about Brendan Quinn.

I thought this book might take place around the same time as book 2. At least chapter 1 is a scene that happened in book 2 in Owen’s pov. Also, great chapter title. “Owen Gets a Prologue, Sort Of.” I never mention them but the chapter titles for these books are pretty good. Not so much for book 3 bc book 3 was sad.

I headcanonned Owen as demiromantic and Mickey as demisexual before reading this book. I don’t really headcannon them as that anymore.

I’m glad there’s a barista showing concern for him. I love how this series gives it’s extras so much life within the story. They aren’t just bystanders, they’re people.

Oh wow. Mickey kissed him. Within the first chapter. How long has mickey been harboring those feelings? I do not mind a sex scene in chapter 1. Such a good sex scene.

“I have feelings.” He was terrified for a moment that Owen was saying he had feelings for him, and that would be the end of him. “And I show them all the time. Is that a problem?” Dude are you fking stupid? Owen’s had feelings for you since forever. You knows he’s been into you since he was 13.

wAIT. Mickey just assumed Key knew he was bi? OWEN had to be the one to tell him his brother had no clue? I honestly don’t know who’s stupider, mickey or key. When we first met mickey, liam said he was straight too. Are all his friends just assuming he’s straight bc he was dating Amy or is he just living life as he is but never explicitly saying he’s bi and just assuming his friends would figure it out? Like a part of me thinks he just doesn’t tell his friends stuff.

Also, damn owen. He definitely loves knowing he has that kinda power over mickey’s dick now.

I’m a bit worried that mickey is the guy brendan quinn has in mind as his replacement. Damn just confirmed right after i typed that. fuuuuck.

“You will be okay, O. No matter what, I’ll make sure you’re okay.”

So this is the first book where the conflicts do get in the way of the relationship. Both are dealing with an internalized and some external conflict (mostly mickey) at the prospect of actually being together and Mickey wants to back out. I mean, technically Jake also had the internal conflict of his grief and sexuality preventing him from asking Brian out but that’s not the same. Mickey and Owen have already slept together, but emotional feelings haven’t really been talked about and i don’t think either of them are going to talk about it honestly bc owen doesn’t want to scare mick away and mick doesn’t think he deserves nice things. Book 1 and 2, the lovers decide they like each other and that they want to keep them fairly quickly. Nothing gets in their way or convinces them they should “let them go” or whatever despite things trying to get in their way like an ex or the moral dilemma of dating someone while undercover. Mick, on the other hand, is trying to push Owen away. While trying not to be a dick.

So many romance novel protagonists, when trying to push their loved one away, DO try and succeed in being a dick.

“It had been the most amazing kiss, and the worst thing that had ever happened to Owen. After it, he’d been sure of two things. The first was that Mickey had feelings for him too. The second was that Mickey never intended to kiss him again.” Just like what I said. This type of angst wasn’t in the previous books. It’s like book 1 and 2 were almost identical and then Sam Burns decided to spice it up a bit.

“Or the fact that I hate writing research papers, even though I like doing research.” BITCH FUCKING SAME!

THE ANGST. Dammit Brenden Quinn. Why’d you have to say “you’re the boss.” In front of your son! “Mickey was pretty sure his leg wasn’t what was in danger of getting broken in this mess.” AAAHHH. BRENDEN FUCK YOU. he did it on purpose! HE KNEW. Asshole.

Maybe he just noticed Mick staring longingly, not that Owen loved him back or that they’ve kissed/slept together? He’s still a major asshole, crushing the heart of a guy who is family to him.

What’s the point of being supportive of them being gay if you hate every guy they choose for themselves and are the reason behind almost every breakup?

Mick’s chosen to talk to keegan about his problems. Good but also. God he’s so bad at-Couldn’t have softened the blow a little? Jesus. Key already knew he’s supposed to be the new boss and key’s the best person to talk to about that but the Owen situation. Thank you keegan for giving me a satisfying hilarious response. And telling him what he needed to hear. Love that Keegan is basically like “WOW good for Owen!”

So keegan’s vote is 1) you don’t want to be the boss anyway (so i guess he’s telling him to tell Brendan no?) 2) totally cool with you dating my brother. He’s an adult and can make his own choices. Don’t break it off bc you feel like he deserves better or whatever other stupid exuses you have. I love Keegan.

“For a fraction of a second, there was something that resembled real sadness in the old man’s eyes, but it disappeared almost as soon as he saw it.” So you feel bad now?

“Owen frowned. He wasn’t sure why, but he wanted to get a rise out of her. He wanted her to be angry. It didn’t make sense. Did he want her to be angry with him, or Mickey? “I slept with him.” God, Owen and Mick are so alike.

So Litty’s saying that Mick’s not like his father’s other thugs so Owen shouldn’t be treating him like one? That he shouldn’t be mad at him for working for his father. I think he’s allowed to be a little mad though bc Mick hates it. He’s only doing it bc he feels like he has to, that he has no choice. But i guess Owen has to learn to be ok with the idea that he might be the boss and choose to not care, to love him anyway. The way Joe doesn’t care that Keegan used to be a gangster or that he loves his dad despite the crime. The way Alex chose to love Liam even if he was in the mafia even though he didn’t really have to go through that moral dilemma bc Liam was actually a cop.

“Owen had always thought Mickey was working for his father because he didn’t think he had another choice. Surely, if he was going to be the man in charge, he had to know that he had all the choice. He did. Right?”

Is he going to invite Mick to hawaii with him?

They are both so fucking insecure jesus christ. Especially Mick which is what’s causing all this mess.

Hey mickey? Maybe don’t kiss a boy after you tried to break off any kind of relationship you could have had with him? Mickey should be more considerate of Owen’s emotions. He knows Owen has loved him since he was a teenager and he keeps breaking this poor kid’s heart because he keeps convincing himself he’s not good enough for him while still being too tempted to completely pull away.  “You can’t jerk me around like this. Make up your mind, dammit.” YEAH funicking tell him!

“I like people who aren’t afraid of me. Who tell me when I’m being a jackass.”

“You’re being a jackass.”

HAHA! Mickey actually says what he wants!

Ah shit they’re interrupted by the boss. Owen’s going to be so fucking mad when he finds out his dad has been encouraging Mick’s self loathing. Fucker.

Owen’s turn to talk to keegan.

So basically this book’s main conflict is Mick and Brendan’s self hatred. Hey Dudes! GET OVER YOURSELVES!

“And as long as Mickey was around their father every single day, there wasn’t a damn thing Owen could do to shake that hold, he was sure. The old man would call, Mickey would answer, and any progress Owen made would be lost.” So Owen is going to take him to hawaii? Oh. it’s more evil than that. He’s not inviting him. He’s going to trick him into thinking he’s in danger. And Keegan’s going to help.

So despite trying to pull them apart from each other, he can see his son wants mick still. That makes him more of an ass.  LET your children BE HAPPY goddammit. No you don’t know what’s best for them. Stop trying to ruin shit for them.

“Going to take him to Europe and lose his passport so he can’t come back to work?” Owen scowled. That was actually kind of clever. He wondered if it would have worked.” pfft.

No, i’m still mad at his dad though. He knew how his son felt about Mick and about the business and encouraged Mick to go deeper into it and acts like it’s ineffable just bc he thinks Mick and him are alike. You told Mick with your own words that you think Owen deserves better. You shut Mick down before he could even ask to date your son. Don’t you think you’re taking part in making him feel unworthy, in making him feel like he can’t be reformed? You knew your son was never going to want anyone else and you still pushed them apart bc you thought you knew better. It’s understandable for Owen to not hate him but I’m going to hate him.

So even though his dad kind of approved of Owen trying to take Mick away and win him over, they’re still going with their plan to trick Mick instead of simply having his dad not force Mick to his side and actually start telling him nice things and start -i don’t know- Stop trying to keep his son away from what he wants. What’s with the talk of him possibly never going to be able to come back home?

Pfft. so literally all he had to do was leave at an odd time and that was enough to freak Mick out? HAHAHAHAHA. I mean everything else is pretty standard and Keegan actually tried to ease his worry by telling him he was going on vacation (which he is). I thought the plan was keegan was going to call pretending to be worried about Owen on his trip, maybe lie and say some russians were there. Nope. What he did was completely normal, he just left at an odd time and took all his favorite stuff on his trip with him (which is...normal?). The only thing off is that he didn’t tell anyone about it. (except he did tell keegan. keegan just didn’t mention that.) Mickey’s such a mother hen for owen. He should have been hired as Owen’s bodyguard. Lord knew, he needed one in school. He did get bullied.

Now i’m thinking of an au where Mick was hired as owen’s bodyguard instead of hired to do errands.

“...Brendan...was watching him with something like curiosity.” so brendon is finally seeing it? The love and care and worry Mick has for his son?

For the first time in his life, Mickey’s patience with Brendan Quinn ran out. “With all due respect, sir, don’t you think Owen is more important than any of that?”

“I didn’t say he wasn’t,” Brendan countered. “Are you telling me that he is to you? More important than your job? Your future?”

Brendan’s testing him. He wants him to put his son before his work. He’s being difficult on purpose. I can understand the “being difficult and disapproving to force their child’s lover to have to prove themselves worthy of their kid” trope but this is different. Brendon’s known Mick for most of his life and encouraged him to go into a path that he knew would taint him when he could have gotten him legitimate work. I feel like it’s unfair. Yeah, Mick needed to learn to tell the old man to fuck off and choose Owen above Brendan but i feel like Brendan was playing unfair.

The classic run to the airport because you realized you’re in love and you’re scared you’re never going to see them again.

I feel like i’m missing the point/not meeting the book where it’s at. The book is leading me somewhere but I’m not following it. I’ve felt it since that “heart to heart” between Owen and his dad. When his dad finally conceded a bit and encouraged Owen to go after what he wants. I’m still holding it against Brendan bc I feel like this conflict is all his fault. I blame Brendan for breaking his son’s heart by giving the empire to someone he knew his son was in love with, knowing how much his son hated the business. But the story is treating it like the conflict is mostly Mick’s fault, which, some of it is, but Mick might not feel as undeserving if it wasn’t for Brendan. If Brendan weren’t so fucking difficult to deal with, there wouldn’t be so much less conflict.

I wish Owen and Mick got to communicate with each other more. I don’t know how close this book is to ending but I’m going to leave this book disappointed if it ends soon bc these idiots spent most of it away from each other and didn’t talk about what they wanted enough. I mean, they had sex, then Mick pushed him away, then owen found out mick was the new boss, then owen avoided him for a while, then mick kissed him and told him what he wanted but owen couldn’t say anything back bc brendan called, then owen went on his trip and mick is following bc he loves him. I didn’t really get to see them spend time with each other that much.

You don’t give something to a poor kid who has never asked for anything in his life and then ask him for 10x more and expect him to not say yes to everything and only agree to what he wants too. Brendan talks about mick’s criminality like it’s who he is and not something brendan forced him to do. Mick never felt like he had a choice in the matter. Brendan built his empire from the ground up bc he wanted it. MICK DOESN’T WANT THIS. He is NOT Brendan! he feels sick to his stomach doing this work and only says yes to you cause you never let him know he could say no. i wanted brendan to feel guilty. Instead he’s probably going to die and the book is going to treat it like it’s all sad and i’m going to be PISSED. Bc you dont get to mold a kid into a criminal than hold that against him when he finally says he WANTS something.

The book is not looking at the full picture it painted. It’s not judging brendan for the choices he’s made. It’s not examining them. It’s not blaming him. It’s a dick move to ask so much from mick and then shut him down before he could even ask to date your son when he has never asked you for anything. And then hold stuff  YOU MADE HIM DO against his character. WTF. he only ever asked for something once and you told him to his face that he didn’t deserve it.

Brendan better not die before Mick gets to say to his face that he never wanted any of this. That he only ever worked for him bc he felt like he owed him. That the only thing mick and brendan have in common is a love for family and loyalty and a love for Owen and Keegan.

It’s kind of frustrating the way Owen and Mick talk about Mick continuing to work for Brendan. He doesn’t want to keep working the business bc he actually enjoys it; He just doesn’t think he’s qualified to do anything else. He never got a chance to figure out what he wants to do with his life. He doesn’t like his job. Owen has to keep saying that he’s fine with Mick still working for his dad if he wants-owen isn’t going to force him to quit-but it’s just so frustrating bc this is with the assumption that Mick wants that.

Okay. i just needed to let out my anger. Let’s pretend brendan doesn’t exist or matter or has ever had any affect on the decisions made by mick.

“This was the trip Mickey had talked about taking for years, since he was a kid. And Owen was taking him—had tricked him into it” this is actually really sweet.

God he should have pulled the prank on him pretending he forgot the condoms. I could just imagine the reaction; it would have been so funny!

Since they’ve already been in love with each other before the book started the last words aren’t going to be their first i love you’s in the story like the previous books.

“We could be married. If you wanted.”  They both froze.  “Mickey?” Owen whispered. “Did you just half-assed ask me to marry you in a swimsuit shop?”  “May-be?”

I can’t believe he said marry me before he said i love you.

“Fuck, O, I love you so much.” 7 pages after.

They get to spend a lot of time together thanks to this trip. It’s very cute.

He DOESN’T. He’s just a pessimistic ass who doesn’t say out loud how much he hates it and doesn’t think himself capable of doing anything else. The book’s solution is to have Mick working for Brendan’s legitimate construction company but I don’t think that’s a real answer? The REAL answer would be to give Mick a chance to figure out what he’s passionate about; to finally accept that he’s worthy of getting the things he wants and to not think so lowly of himself. He’s not a poor kid desperate for money and food anymore and hasn’t been for a long time. Plus Keegan and Owen would totally be ok with supporting him financially while he gets the qualifications to do what he wants. He needs to learn that he can ask for and accept help without having to pay anyone back. He’s allowed to want things.

It just feels weird that book 1 was about Alex, who quit law school and got disowned so that he could crash on his friend’s couch with nothing but the clothes on his back and his philosophy textbooks bc he reached for what he was actually passionate about and here we are, the last book in the series, and the topic of Mick trying to find something he’s passionate about isn’t even discussed or explored at all. This book’s conflict is more than just Mick wanting to be with Owen but feeling like he owes Brendan and needs to do what Brendan wants. Wanting to be with Owen but working as a criminal. It’s about Mick not being able to accept any act of kindness without feeling like he has to pay them back tenfold. It’s about him feeling like he’s not allowed to want for anything because he’s already been given more than he thinks he deserves.

yeah he’s accepting a ceo position for brendan’s construction company but does he want that? Or does he just want to work a legal job and he would

have accepted it no matter what it was (except working at Wilde’s bc that would be too easy). Is he accepting it without argument bc he feels like he can ask for this or bc Brendan’s just handing it to him and it’s no different than continuing to say yes to whatever Brendan wants-it’s just now he’s saying no to illegal stuff.

“Plus, if he’s halfway out, it’s not crushing his soul the same way, right?” It’s this shit right here! Mick never says he doesn’t want to work for Brendan bc it’s crushing his soul, because he hates killing, because he doesn’t WANT to, out loud. He says it’s because he doesn’t want to hurt Owen. “I don’t want Owen to get a visit saying I’m not coming home. I don’t want him to see my face all over the news if I get busted and put away. I want him to be happy.” That’s what he says when he’s asked why he wants to quit the business. And it’s really frustrating??? At least Brendan finally acknowledged that Mick and he are not the same, that Brendan would kill his best friend to reach a goal but Mick wouldn’t kill his. Except Mick would rather not kill anyone if he can avoid it.

Anyway we’re close to the end. We’ve got a wedding scene.

“She snorted and rolled her eyes in disgust.“Yeah, but they thought you were straight. So now they just think everybody’s bisexual, especially if they want it to be true.” gross.

“Poor thing was so embarrassed when he started leering at your brother that he apologized to me.” dude

“Holy hell,” Keegan whispered. “You’re really in love with my brother.”\Mickey peered up at him. Was he kidding? In fact, Keegan

looked completely sincere. “Um, duh? I better love him. We’re getting married in, like, five minutes.” asdfghjklkjhgfds

We get a domestic shopping scene and christmas. Mick is happy with the office job he has. And Owen’s still trying to figure out what to do with his degree since no fbi agency would accept him bc of his crime family. Based no that domestic shopping scene and “He didn’t even know who’d done the decorating in the Quinn house. Wilkes, probably. Whoever it was, they’d done a magnificent job.” this, Owen might become an interior decorator? With a criminal justice degree.

Mick to key about jon “You’re dating Mister Rogers.”

“Heh. Mickey’s husband.” same energy as “heh. Wife” - vespa ilkay

“Jon was unreasonably pleased with the personalized monogrammed handkerchiefs that Mickey bought him, and he even had a smile for Brendan when the man told him that his gift was that he hadn’t bought the fed “a damned thing.”

“Owen gave Keegan a copy of the Kama Sutra as a joke, and was horrified when Keegan gave him a satisfied smile, handed it back to him, and told him he already had one.” hold on. “The Kama Sutra is an ancient Indian Sanskrit text on sexuality, eroticism and emotional fulfillment in life. Attributed to Vātsyāyana, the Kama Sutra is neither exclusively nor predominantly a sex manual on sex positions, but written as a guide to the art of living well, the nature of love, finding a life partner, maintaining one's love life, and other aspects pertaining to pleasure-oriented faculties of human life” ok.

Mick never killed jimmy. He mentioned at the beginning of the book that he lied to the old man a lot. This is what he meant. Brendan would order someone dead and he’d find a way to not do that while still making it look like he did what the boss wanted.

Brendan died not from sickness but he got shot on the job. Died trying to do the right thing. Penny, the asshole who kidnapped Alex in the first book, is out of jail and is the new boss of the mafia crime business.

The Quinn family house gets turned into “The Brendan Quinn Shelter for Homeless LGBT Teens.” COOL!

Last words are I love you.

THE END