#also i think that by the time of rivulet's campaign pebbles has accepted that what he did was horrid and hurt so many and i think that is

[moons-among-distant-stars]

gonna scream and cry actually

also shoutout to this iterator playlist for going so hard and being the thing i loop for hours on end

(more in the tags cause i'm a coward)

[tenten-shi]

"Moon is a good sister" is a common sentiment in the rain world community. To be honest, i have never seen a single post that talks about her in a critical way. That made me decide to share my observations and thoughts on why i think she is not a good big sister.

I'll start off saying that i like Moon with all her issues and quirks. If you are a fan of Moon, and consider any post that criticizes her "an attack" on your favorite character, please do not interact with this post. Discussions and additions are welcomed.

The main topic that needs to be addressed is her behavior in the situation with Pebbles (all the way from Spearmaster to Saint). Was Moon a good sister or was it just a facade?

The reason why she calls herself that way

It is stated in the Light Blue Industrial Complex broadcast that Moon chose the name Big Sister Moon because of her seniority status above Five Pebbles.

Evidently, Moon openly presents herself as his older sister both inside the local group, as well as outside of it.

Her attitude towards Five Pebbles

Moon doesn't know a whole lot about Pebbles, aside from his mental state that she learns about through the received neuronflies. The gifts from Pebbles' structure are not something she minds at all, on the contrary this behavior is encouraged.

In Rivulet's campaign, she reassures the slugcat to not make his situation worse by bringing her new neurons.

Still, she continues to accept them without any protest.

For the first time after their long separation Moon sees Pebbles only after the end of Rivulet's campaign. If the player visits him again after finishing the main story, they can see new projections showing the two playing some board game.

It is unknown whether they have talked to each other or not. But If i had to guess, their conversation must've ended shortly, turning into a silent game.

During Saint's campaign Moon doesn't express any interest in Pebbles nor does she try to see his state for herself. Her overseers do not spawn in Silent Construct and his collapsed chamber. The only way for her to discover that he's alive is by bringing his Music Pearl.

Her reaction indicates that she hasn't checked on him for a long time for unspecified reasons.

Was Moon a good big sister for him?

The situation between them can seem complex and confusing. It's hard to tell who's truly right or wrong.

I'll pose an analogy:

Imagine Pebbles getting a hold of a grenade. Moon is standing in close proximity. She doesn't make any attempts to see what he's got in his hands or what his plans are. He pulls the pin out, still holding the safety lever. He keeps slowly loosening his grip on it, putting Moon's life in danger, as well as his own. Moon tries to talk to Pebbles, disrupting his focus. When Pebbles almost lets go off of the lever and tries to throw the explosive away, Moon stops him. The grenade goes off, Pebbles gets heavily injured and Moon ends up in a coma.

Would a responsible older sister beat around the bush for so long in a situation that is threatening to not just her but also her younger brother? Obviously, no.

Moon is not a good sister, she's only trying to present herself as one. She's created a semblance of a great big sis, when in reality she's unsuccessful at that.

She wasn't

Did Moon have her chance to stop him before everything has gotten out of control? Yes. Suns brings up exactly that in one of the broadcasts, pointing out her seniority privilege.

Moon did not care about Pebbles' endeavors or interests. She's noticed the problem only when it had put at risk her own life.

Even after she has acknowledged the deadly danger, she kept on stalling. She wanted to talk to Pebbles and "shake him out of it".

As if what Pebbles is doing does not pose any danger at all. As if Pebbles is some disobedient, naughty puppy, whom, once scolded, is going to settle down. It feels like she looks down on him. She cannot imagine Pebbles doing something serious and important, therefore it must be easy to make him stop whatever it is that he's doing. If Moon legitimately was a good sister, she would've immediately stopped him and only then tried to talk.

Besides, Moon has demonstrated an odd demeanor towards Pebbles in the final Rivulet broadcast. At first her words sounded like something a genuinely good sister could say. But that shifts after Moon, almost jokingly, says how protective she is as his Big Sis. When in reality everything points at her carelessness.

Of course people could say that she's just excessively kind. But even if she was acting out of goodness of her heart, she's made a mistake. Instead of understanding and accepting Pebbles' personhood, she treated him only as her little brother and nothing more.

In conclusion, Moon's attempt to keep the face of a wonderful sister has led to a catastrophe, proving that she has failed as a Big Sister.

[sapphicdib]

i wantchu to know my only experience with iterator shpping to this point has been Pebbles/Suns (i guess. whats even the name for that one? idk). But you have opened my eyes here. Lilypad is just so compelling in a way thats hard to describe. Adds so much depth to the whole Hunter Slag Keys thing!

You have just activated an unskippable cutscene LOL

Suns/Pebbles is called sunstone, which I think is very cute ^-^ Most rw ship names are pretty cute tbh :3

ANYWAYS. YES. Lilypad is so so so good…I really like it because Sig seems to actually be a little more emotionally vulnerable with Moon than she does Suns, implying they were closer than Sig and Suns are. Not to mention, Sig barely mentions Pebbles (or acts pretty standoffish) when he does mention Pebbs.

These are two messages it sends to Moon, but it seems to imply he’s sent more, considering “it’s me again” and the fact that there are more than one we are shown. They could have only made one just to show he was worried, but the devs chose to put more than one, just to drive the point home. It shows a panic that Sig is unwilling to reveal to Suns.

And then we have this.

Sig is basically telling Pebbles he hopes he wallows in regret for this. While Sig does express her general disdain for Pebbles’ attitude with Suns, he still makes a point to be understanding, saying “I think a lot of us were like that in the beginning.” Meanwhile, in this broadcast, none of that empathy is present. She is angry, to a point he refuses to reveal to Suns.

I believe that Sig’s biggest fear is being alone. He describes their situation as being “locked up in a box”, and comes up with the idea to use slugcats as messengers in an attempt to make sure when the comms systems degrade, something everyone else seems to have just accepted as a grim inevitability. So it’s pretty understandable Sig would be pissed at the person who took away one of the few remaining friends she had left. If you wanna read my other massive essay that goes more in depth to this point, here it is!

The fact that you can find the green overseer in outer expanse and subterranean during the Hunter, Monk, Survivor, and Gourmand campaigns is also shows how desperate she was to help Moon. If it was only around during the Hunter campaign, okay sure, that’s probably just him looking for her, checking if she made it to the void sea. However, the fact that it stays, likely long after she knows Hunter’s time is up, means he’s probably searching for any sign of activity from Moon. Still waiting and wondering if her plan was all in vain. The reason I think it doesn’t appear during Rivulet is because of the destruction of OE and just…age. Unfortunately, Sig might just not have the ability to send an overseer that far.

Lastly, the pearl he gives to Moon. This seems to contradict my first point, doesn’t this seem like he’s hiding her emotions behind humor again? Well, my interpretation of this is that: Moon just woke up from what is essentially a fucking coma. Giving her a message that’s like “OH MY GOD I WAS SO WORRIED ABOUT YOU AHHHHHH” would probably not be helpful to someone who is likely in a ton of pain, disoriented, and scared. She knows not to overwhelm Moon right now.

And…yeah. Sig seems to hold a lot of genuine adoration for Moon, and looks up to her kindness. I think his jokiness stems from him wanting to emulate Moon’s uplifting nature. He cares about her a lot and also I just love doomed yuri LMAO. SIG AND MOON LESBIANS FOREVER AND EVER.

[flickering-nightfall]

So, your Infinity Train crossover got me to watch the show, and... woah. Woah. I would love to know if you had any more ideas, blurbs, thoughts, anything about that crossover, because now I can't get enough of imagining the viciously murderous cat and accidentally-fratricidal robot on the train.

I'm glad you liked Infinity Train too! (and thank you!) More on the crossover... I gotta admit I haven't thought of much other than the initial "haha what if" idea. Maybe I can speculate though:

Spoilers ahead!

There were many hilarious and thoughtful takes on how Pebbles could possibly end up on the train, in the notes of the initial post. I joked that it'd just tear a hole through his structure, but there are more (and less) sane options than that.

Since we only see human passengers on the train, a lot of people would probably mistake Pebbles and Arti as denizens. Simon and Grace would probably not take to them having numbers well. I feel like they'd most likely think it was a trick, but it could shake up their perspective too.

Man humans look kind of similar to ancients maybe. That doesn't mean much to Arti - and I think humans look dissimilar enough from scavs to be spared by her wrath. But to Pebbles...

Also, iterators haven't communicated with another civilization-era sapient species in a quite a while probably. Some interesting stuff can come out of that.

How many migraines do you think Pebbles gets from trying to figure out what the hell is up with denizens? Or the train itself? I feel like he'd have an aneurysm if he had to interact with Alan Dracula. If he goes home and tries to tell the others what happened without any proof, they'd think he'd had a rot-induced fever dream.

Numbers are dependent on how close a passenger is to solving their problem. Arti, having already killed the scav chieftain, according to Rain World has hit the point of no return. So her body is completely wrapped up in numbers. But like Amelia, with enough time and determination it might be possible. The main problem is... Arti has to want to fix her problem first. The setup for her to do that is there. She's with Pebbles, so she has less of a reason to go off on a rampage unless she's being threatened. The lack of scavs wouldn't stop her from resorting to violence at this point, but the pure strangeness and unfamiliarity of her surroundings should at least baffle her into a different mental state.

I think in order to get an exit, Arti needs to make peace with herself. She must acknowledge what she has become, and to truly believe that she needs to change. It has little to do with the death of her children at that point. She needs to escape the self-perpetuating circle of violence.

Pebbles' number is much smaller (but still huge) because he's entrenched in rage and isolation and frustration on a massive timescale, but we see him eventually come to a resolution in Rivulet's campaign. How would the train define his problem though? It could be his anger at Moon and Suns, blaming them for his current state (even if Suns is partially at fault). It could be his tendency to close himself off, his refusal to talk to others or accept help. It could be his denial, believing he can handle and fix everything by himself. It could be his overall arrogance or ego. There's a lot of options there. Ultimately I think whatever brings him to think similarly to how he does in Rivulet's campaign would do the trick.

The sad thing is that Pebbles would probably be better off staying on the train too. I'm not sure if he'd be affected by the rot there, but he'd at least he could (literally) get out of his own head. And he has no choice but to touch grass interact with new people and situations. But to deny his exit would be to deny responsibility for what he's done. If he's really gotten better, that means he knows he can't run away anymore.

If Pebbles went to the train without Arti there's a chance he'd get killed or ghom'd two days into the trip. We are assuming his puppet is capable of walking for this AU, but also I do not think he knows how to walk. Good luck pink guy!

On the flipside. Pebbles could... probably take over the train even more than Amelia ever did, especially as a (bio)mechanical being himself. The only thing that could limit him are taboos maybe. Any iterator could do this, really. Lots of potential paths with that one.

Something something, One-One and iterators both solving people's big problems with varying amounts of success, and both engineering weird organisms...

...does a RW character that gets ghom'd return to the great cycle? Their soul gets devoured, or their life essence, it's not clear. I guess which one could determine what happens. But also they are in another universe where there is probably no cycle. Are ghoms a triple affirmative? Is crossdimensional travel? The latter wouldn't fit the "portable and generally applicable" part but still. This is a whole rabbit hole and a half, isn't it!

The train is dangerous and all, but that just makes Rain World characters a hilarious fit for it. Like this is just their daily life. Honestly I think their home world is more dangerous than the train, just in less wacky ways.

Lastly: I haven't even touched upon what introducing other characters could do for this narrative, or how they would react. So many possibilities!

If anyone wants to do more with this, please feel free!

[whatsmyisyours]

RAIN WORLD PEEPS I HAVE MORE THOUGHTS TO SHARE ABOUT A GREEN CAT

Spoilers for the ENTIRE Saint and the endings for the rest of the Scugs campaigns below, also long watchout.

So we all know how Saint is an echo and how we all agree that the want to ascend others is what we saw in its campagin, but how did it get stuck in the first place because I highly doubt it started wanting to ascend other creatures across of all future time, plus why doesn't it carry over its powers?

The Hypothesis of Saints Past

Unlike most Slugcats, Saint has no Scug family or friends to speak of or memory of and no connection to any Iterator, most likely "born" with its powers. (To those of the "Saint is made by Sliver" truthers gang (same), we have no other base than Sliver is dead and Saint is able to ascend Iterators. I think any Iterator that made a triple affirmative into an animal would wipe its memory of them because that connection could stop them from doing their job properly). This most likely caused a great loneliness in Saint, and assuming that Saint started off from "birth" with its powers it also likely had knowledge from other echoes about what ascension might bring, which is heavily implied to be some form of afterlife (there has to be more than 6 egotisitcs from Ancient civilization). For Survivor and Monk it was reunion with each other and their family, with Hunter it was reunion with its creator, even Artificer who doesn't succeed in ascension due to genocided got to see its kids.

With this I think Saint want to Ascend so badly that I was bound by that desire. Sidenote: I am believe that Rain World Ascension works very similarily to Buddhism and that any want you do not let go of will tie you and not let you reach Nirvana (in Rain World Ascension). Now, the question of the ancients, they want to ascend really bad right? No. They wanted to die. They didn't care what waited for them after, they were of the opinion "anything else is better than this". So now 2

2. Proof

Example A. BUGS

Saint does NOT LIKE eating bugs, however you can force feed Saint bugs, and what happens? Saint seizies. This however is unusal behavior. Usually slugcats know what they can and cannot eat and will not let you force feed them harmful things, shaking their heads no when you press to eat, so why does Saint? Because Saint isn't seizing, it is throwing up. Cats unlike rats have a gag reflect for posion, but if was bad enough to make Saint sick shouldn't Saint follow the lead of the others and just not eat it? Because bugs don't make Saint sick, this point will be further covered in...

Example B. EVOLUTIONARY ADVANTAGE, WHO'S THAT? - SAINT

With the snow and cold being here, what is the evolutionary advantage is there to being a vegan? There was one for Rivulet because of the quick rain, plants would be more plentiful and animal + insects less, however in a snow covered world it just doesn't make sense. Meat would be the primary source of nutritions, insects maybe, frUIT????? SEEDS?????? Theres no point, the plants made for Rain are dying (popcorn plant), are dead (lilypuck), or extremely localized to a reigion(gooieduck).

Example B2.

[REDACTED DUE TO MISINFORMATION FROM OP]

Example C. EAT THE GRAVEL, DRINK THE TEA

Both Moon and Pebbles speak on how the Ancient's thought they could ascened through eating gravel, drinking tea, and starvation. And after the echos were discovered was thought to be needed by some. Saint is doing the same behavior, denying itself the easiest route of survival by eating insects and instead trying to survive off of plants than make other creatures suffer. Thus in Saint's eyes it would be better to starve then to eat a bug, least Saint be brought down by an act of violence against another creature in an act of survival and gulttony.

Example D1CK. HELL PULLS NO PUNCHES, HEAVEN ACCEPTS NO CREDIT CARDS

So, while I understand it was more of a joke here is a statement from the devs about why, when forced Slugpup spawn is on in a Saint campagin there is a 100% chance of one in Rubicon:

However, Slugpups in hell could also be torment for Saint; "Here is the connection you crave so desperately you'd die for it." In a place where ANYTHING can kill the pup. It's hell. That is why I am also mixing with the point that the reason Saint keep ascending other beings is because it assumes that ascending others, espcially those that want to be *cough* Iterators *cough* would get Saint enough "good" Karma to ascend, yet no matter how many or how few things you ascend as Saint, it never gets to. This is because ascending others has become another want that ties Saint down. You can't hurt others more than taking choice away from them assuming your doing the best thing for them without asking. Also if you ascend both Moon and Pebbles, they get to see each other as they never have before. They could have been put in separate room and referenced that they could feel each other while also saying their ascended alone dialogue, but they aren't. They have each other, and Rubicon makes sure Saint see's this before it leaves

Example E. THEMES? IN MY FUNNY PAIN SIMULATOR? MORE LIKELY THAN YOU'D THINK

There are themes and inspriations from Buddihism that I've glossed over, but there are also a few from Christian. For one, there are the first six Karmic desires 1 violence, 2 lust, 3 companionship, 4 gulttony, 5 survival. Most of these have ties to seven deadly sins in christian mythos. Thus, I would like to pose a theme for the funny pain simulator: "Those that wish for Heaven, will find a self-made Hell waiting instead." Why? For both Iterators and Ancients they wished for an end, any. Yet it only found them through luck. It was luck that the Ancients drilled into the void and it was luck that Saint came for Five Pebbles and Looks to the Moon. Saint has only wished for an end, and it went into the void sea with this mindset. Now it is stuck, stuck staring at the tenth karmic symbol, the symbol for ascension, and the symbol for the desire of ascension for the self and others. Because it became an echo at some point, I don't think the campagin we play is Saint first run through the cycle, as it doesn't wake with its powers and even without eating a neuron Saint can see Void Spawn, something it is stripped of through the void and get back through echos.

Rebuttal(s)

Wouldn't want of compaionship stick Saint at karma 3 instead of being at a natural 10 with its powers?

I believe the void sea put a lock on Saint's powers, I think before Saints first attempt at ascension Saint's powers could be accessed at any karma level, as they are once you unlock them.

Then why does Monk and Survivor get to ascend even though they want campaginionship?

Excluding Saint, all slugcat have to be told about the void by Iterators. Those Iterators don't know about the afterlife, thus any time you ascend as a slugcat, the slugcat is probably expect a death that ends in nothingness, not reunion, completing the ascension as whatever slugcat you play as lets go of its karmic desires.

Conclusion

Saint is a lonely cat that is way more tragic why you attempt to analyize the poor thing, stuck suffering in a cycle of its own make, forever seeing itself grant others what it longs for, forever going into Rubicon and seeing a reunion of siblings separated by selfness and kindness. In Pebbles (ascended alone) words:

" An aberrant cycle twisting... spiraling onward into the abyss. What a horrifying destiny [its] found."