#also i slashed through all ship names just so we can stay unbiased

[sexybabystevie]

I agree with what you said about b/lers viewing the Duffers as their friends and allys and therefore watch the view in a different lense and make it out to be this carefully thought out masterpiece that it simply isn't. Like they forget Stranger Things was supposed to be only one season, b/ler wasn't a thing. Yeah, they queercoded Will but not with the intention to have him pine over his best friend. Plus, like you said, Will is more of a plot point than a real character, esp in s1. In s2, he also wasn't much of a character he was again a plot point, and we never saw his real personality on screen. In s3, he was almost nonexistent, and that's sad, but I genuinely don't think the Duffers know how to write him. So his stans have to rely on the crumbs they are given and then delude themselves into thinking this is all part of a big love story bc that's easier to admit than the show being not that great and Will being a flat character.

Similar with Steve, we also only get crumbs and make the best out of but we can see the Duffers as our enemy because we have no problem to admit that they are shitty writers when it comes to characters. Like we never delude ourselves into thinking he is the main character and the Duffers know what to do with him and the lack of information is this big twist we will get paid off in the last season. I don't think he will die, narratively, it doesn't make sense, especially with Dustin involved (who is arguable one of their faves) so I'm thinking we get a shitty end for him (aka St/ncy). Like I still have hope for Stobin best friend shenanigans in the big city after s5, but it's only slim. I don't trust the Duffers that much, and like you said, b/lers whorshipping them is setting them up for failure if their "clues" turn out to be false.

For b/ler to happen, m/leven had to break up for sure in s4. Like Mike's monolog is a pivotal point in s4. And even if b/lers say he was lying, well that makes it everything worse, because El thinks he loves her. M/leven breakup has to be handled with care in order for b/ler to start.

I hate when ppl say st/ncy = m/leven and j/ncy = b/ler, and they view this as something great. Objectively speaking, the st/ncy breakup was so messy and unfair to Steve that I don't get why people want El to go through the same thing. Because the foundation of j/ncy was cheating and not them being a cute sweet couple, star-crossed lovers style. Every time people joke about the Wheelers not saying I love you to their respective partners bc they fancy someone else I want to puke because it's not a cute parallel and the other person in that relationship is lied to which is horrible. Plus, it already makes b/ler about 3 completely different characters that have nothing to do with it. There should not even be the want to compare relationships because everyone is different. And I need people to realize j/ncy getting together was done in such a disastrous way you don't want that for your couple.

Sidenote people who get mad at Steve stans for giving him trust and abandonment issues after Nancy are not getting the severity of what emotionally cheating does to a person. Steve wasn't aware of problems, Nancy told him she loved him a day prior, and then it all came crashing down. Plus him not committing to anyone because he is scarred from that experience is valid and it's an explanation for his behavior in s4. It doesn't make Nancy a bad person, but her actions hurt him, and he should be allowed to feel that way, especially if she was his first love. If El went through that with Mike, I also think she would develop trust issues (on top of her already abandonment issues).

Anyway, I think b/lers are in this secluded bubble, and if things don't go exactly their way, it will break them, and I'm actually scared. Like even in s4, I had witnessed complete meltdowns over b/ler, and I need everyone to chill bc we talk about two 14 year old kids. Especially when older people (mid twenties and up) are overly involved in shipping children, I get this weird feeling. There's nothing against ppl going into fan spaces, but it's weird obsessing over the love life of two children in such an intense cult-like way.

response under the cut again! <3

yeah, i honestly don't even know where this entire narrative about stranger things being a secret love story started, because the primary theme has always been friendship and the power that people have when they come together platonically. it's bizarre to me too, because i've been in this fandom for years (not always on tumblr, some on instagram or whatever) and b/ler just kind of massively grew up out of nowhere. i'd seen maybe one or two people before talking about it during previous seasons, but there was just this huge uprising of the b/ler community after s4 (which sort of makes sense but is still a little odd to me that they came up out of nowhere? i also don't remember previous b/lers being this exhausting to deal with). anyway, yeah, it all pretty much comes down to the fact that they all believe that the duffers have been hinting at this for years (which, hindsight vision is 20/20 so that's not really a valid point tbh) and fully believe that they're getting this picture perfect endgame.

honestly, i think another thing people are neglecting to think about is all of the stuff that we have to wrap up in 8-9 episodes. there is SO much going on now in this show that plot holes are pretty much guaranteed, not even considering the possibility of b/ler becoming canon. i'm honestly not really sure what they think is going to happen - the show will just take an entire shift into being solely about mike and will JUST to resolve the possibility of b/ler happening? i'm not even trying to be bitchy and put these people down or something, it's just crazy that people think that the show will take this massive shift in direction or that they'll just add in a whole new plotline when we probably won't even have enough time to satisfyingly and properly wrap up everything else.

also, there are so many characters that i think the duffers just don't know how to write or what to do with now. jonathan, will, erica, probably dmitri and murray now that they've basically joined the giant cast. and the sad thing is that fans come up with plotlines and stuff all the time for their fics or just for silly posts online, but the duffers just seem not to know what to do with most of their characters ever. (cough cough st/ncy s4 revival for NO reason).

the setup for b/ler just ISN'T there, like you said. yes, there are a few cracks in the foundation of m/leven's relationship, honestly, but that's not enough to wrap everything up and end AND start a whole new relationship in 8-9 episodes. whether b/lers want to realize it or not, b/ler is NOT the main plotline. defeating the upside down and vecna is. those are just obvious facts, and therefore this is the priority when it comes to things that have to be addressed and finished by the ending. maybe, if we have two more seasons to go instead of one, or if this was a show with 22-26 episodes per season, i could see where s4 was the setup, but it just isn't. we don't have the time to focus on it.

mike's monologue may have been a lie, who knows, but again, like you said, this is just... bad??? like why would you want that. there are already parallels between the whole st/ancy = m/leven thing at this point, but that was so messy and it's still not resolved to this day, and that was from s1!! again, we don't have the time to reenact all of st/ncy's breakup with m/leven because it was a disaster. and also no one ever knows how to hold fair accountability over people, so i'm 100% certain that that happening would lead into people shitting on el even more than they do already and blaming her for everything.

also a small point that's been in the back of my mind lately that i want to point out, as a queer woman myself, is that this ship would not be so popular if it was two girls/women instead of two boys/men (speaking in terms of actor ages since they're adults now). it's a thing that happens where everyone LOVES mlm rep and shits on anything wlw because theres always some bullshit reason to hate seeing a wlw relationship portrayed in the media. i know this isn't a primary issue but it still upsets me so much because it's so obvious, just from the treatment of robin and her literal canonical love interest vickie!! there's some fucked up misogyny in all of this, and also in the way that everyone will throw el to the side, putting this idea onto her that she either doesn't like guys so she can't possibly like mike or that she just is basically "too traumatized to know what love is" and i'm so tired of it. i'm SO tired of it.

back to the st/ncy = m/leven thing, i REALLY appreciate you pointing this out, "Every time people joke about the Wheelers not saying I love you to their respective partners bc they fancy someone else I want to puke because it's not a cute parallel and the other person in that relationship is lied to which is horrible." because that's exactly how i feel. it's not cute or funny, it's immature and deceitful. and yes, they're all children/barely adults at this point, but still. it's not some parallel that you should be happy about. i've been in that situation, i've been the steve harrington of the st/ncy & j/ncy love triangle, it's not fun. it hurts, someone is quite literally saying they don't love you (or perhaps worse when they CAN'T say they love you because they don't) and it's traumatic and everyone yet again ignores that.

j/ncy's getting together WAS chaotic and messy and honestly i'm not even surprised that they're falling apart in canon right now because you can't start out like that and then expect a good, happy, fairytale ending. it just doesn't work that way. everyone's mad about them having issues and raged about them being "couples goals" and the "best ship of the show", whatever, but honestly it was quite literally just someone cheating and lying to try and escape a relationship she didn't want instead of having proper communication. and i get it, it's hard to do that, but the show and the fandom never hold nancy accountable and always blame steve for everything, so i'm honestly annoyed with it. seeing all this mess, how could you possibly want that for your ship?

LOVE your steve sidenote there, because you're so right. everyone ignores the fact that steve has trauma, both from nancy and the upside down (seriously, how can we agree that EVERYONE ELSE except him has UD related trauma but he doesn't?? i don't get it). and i get it to an extent because the duffers ignore it just as much, but still. for some reason steve fans adding onto his character with realistic things is just a horrible thing to do, despite the fact that will fans have to do this as well and it's fine when they do it. i don't know how any of the st/ncy fallout was 100% steve's fault, and i will defend it until the very day that i die, honestly. the show has a narrative, and then it was to equate being popular and being a jock to being a villain, so they tried to make the audience take nancy's side and sympathize with her. which, again, is fine, but don't go and attack other people for wanting to see from multiple perspectives here.

i quite literally saw a post the other day that was like "the people who go and add all this stuff to steve's character are so annoying because none of that would happen in the show." well sweetheart, it's not happening in the show because the duffers don't care and also don't know what the hell they're doing lol.

"Plus him not committing to anyone because he is scarred from that experience is valid and it's an explanation for his behavior in s4." THIS. why are we all just glossing over this??? the pining after nancy again for old time's sake, the serial dating that never develops anything intimate - some people for some reason think it's just "proof" that he truly wants/belongs with nancy, but no! it's literally him being afraid to commit to anyone again, and honestly i don't blame him. and like you said, it doesn't make nancy a bad person, but honestly i just wish canon would at least have them talk about it so he can have actual closure or something for once. that's the best ending for him i can think of - st/ncy closure and stobin platonic besties forever.

absolutely agree with getting the weird feeling about shipping two children. it gives me an odd feeling too, honestly. which, i'm not taking it too seriously, it's just a little weird. other than that, they definitely are in their own little bubble of delusion and when that bubble inevitably pops, i'm not even sure what to expect, because it is a little scary. they attack anyone who disagrees and are genuinely so rude for no real reason, so who knows what they're gonna do when they realize that they don't get this happy ending that they've manufactured? honestly this is just another solid reason that i'm glad it'll take a while for s5 to come out.