#also i hope people don't treat isaiah the way they treat bucky for this

[logansgaar]

Watching Isaiah Bradley's mind control play out in CABNW: this is literally why Bucky kept him a goddamn secret even from Steve, after Isaiah had to fake his death to escape and live in some semblance of peace, and publicizing him without asking his permission first was a fucking dangerous thing to do the poor man's safety what the hell were the tfawts writers thinking

[valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn]

Why is Peggy a terrible character ? …did I miss something?

I'm going to answer this by talking about why I don't like her, hope that's alright. I never did because I find her to be the typical female character that all men like: she's perfect and has no flaws. Those women in media tend to bore the hell out of me so at first I wasn't too seduced by her presence.

In TFA there's a scene that made me despise her though: when she shoots at Steve after she's seen him kissing another woman (or rather, a woman kissing him!). They weren't dating at the time and he could have done whatever he wanted with anyone he wanted (for the record the same applies to her, of course). If you compare her behaviour there with the way Steve handled it when he believed she and Howard were "foundeing" it's the exact opposite: he asks, it's kind of awkward but he doesn't press any further. Peggy acts like she owns him.

It's the kind of scene that directors and writers try to sell as "feminist" but if anything it seems like an spiteful woman being jealous of another and seeing her as competition. And I hate that.

Then after the conclusion of TFA I thought that was it, no more need of her, but of course I was wrong. Marvel keep bringing her back, to more movies, to What If, they gave her a series... and through all this we find out she hired Zola and other nazis - the same Zola who had experimented on Bucky, the same Zola responsible for Bucky's non-death and subsequent torture for 7 decades, the same Zola who helped Hydra grow big and powerful inside Shield and the American government.

Peggy was one of Shield's founders and Howard Stark has a nickname for Zola. They knew who he was, they still hired him, they were fully involved in Operation Paperclip. What else did they know? Isaiah Bradley, perhaps?

So, is she a terrible character? Perhaps not but she's not the good girl they make her out to be, she's morally grey and has done some bad stuff. The main problem I have when it comes to her is her framing as Marvel wants us to believe that her moral compass is the same as Steve's when it's not, not even close. Where Steve wants to do the right thing and is ready to take down everything, whatever it takes, she's obviously willing to turn a blind eye to certain people (nazis, mostly) as long as it benefits her or her interests - for instance, Steve would have never hired Zola or any other nazis, he would have done his utmost to make sure they ended up in jail for the rest of their lives.

Also another reason she's different to Steve is that he takes the time to lift others up, he genuinely cares about bringing out the best of people, she doesn't. She wants the best and she wants it for herself, she's preoccupied with having it all but takes no time in pondering whether others are being treated the same or handed the same things she is. Again, does that make her bad? Nah, it makes her selfish - and not aligned with Steve's morals. That wouldn't be a problem if they didn't try to frame her as the "female Steve".

And lastly I'm just tired of seeing her all the time. She died in TWS and her scene with Steve in that movie is priceless, I really like it. Granted, I would have preferred to see a few scenes where she's made accountable for her actions but I know Marvel would have never done such a thing so that send-off was enough.

So in short, she might not be terrible per se but Marvel's obsession with framing her wrong, refusing to hold her accountable for her actions and acting like her morality is similar to the most ethical character in the MCU is laughable. If she had been framed as an imperfect anti-hero who doesn't play by the rules and sometimes does things she shouldn't do... I wouldn't have a problem with her. But since they act like she's the bestest girl in the Marvel universe I just can't wait until she stops showing up.

[omegas-spaghettios]

Ranking MCU Captain America figures

Before I begin, I want to clarify this is about my enjoyment of these characters and NOT who i think are the best morality or power wise. I specify because I think my first two entries will upset some people and I want to say, this list is NOT in order of how much I agree with these characters' values. I have a heavy favoritism towards theme and character interaction and that is where a lot of my enjoyment from media comes from. So, let's begin.

6. Captain America: CW, IW, and Endgame

I'm separating Steve into two because around CW he starts making decisions that really frustrate me.

Now I do think there is a lot to like still! His conviction to his morals during the Accords and continuing arc about government distrust is great, his stand against Thanos in IW is amazing, he is a lot of fun to watch during the New York part of the time heist, and lifting Mjolnir was legit my best theater moment ever and i will NEVER forget it.

However, in CW he starts making some awful decisions. In CW, he kisses Sharon like, days after Peggy's funeral. While on it's own it's already kinda creepy, Endgame retroactively makes this even worse. It goes on to also have grave consequence because he and Sam asked Sharon to break the law for them and never followed through to help her, which was pretty awful of them. At least Sam tries to make it right in TFATWS, but since Steve left that wrong on Sharon never gets reconciled from him.

I also think that his decision to keep Bucky and Howard's history a secret from Tony was really, really stupid. While I side with him during the fight, the fact that Steve "doesn't like when his teammates withhold information" Rogers didn't tell Tony this then walked into a Winter Soldier facility with Bucky and Tony during the most strained time of their relationship was just begging for that conflict.

He is barely in IW and while his stand against Thanos is a great moment, his decision to not let Vision kill himself is very frustrating. "We don't trade lives" then he goes to Wakanda to let thousands of soldiers die while they try and get the stone out, really dude?

I don't think going back in time in Endgame was inherently a bad ending but things he does to make it happen really frustrates me. He shows no signs of mourning Bucky or Sam at all. And then for the sake of surprise for the audience, he never tells Sam what he's doing and that is so awful. Sam dedicates 4 years of his life helping Steve with a good portion of it being on the run. Sam was with Steve more during the present than ANYONE else. Then Steve just leaves without telling him and shows back up to drop a ton of responsibility on Sam that he didn't ask for. Now Sam is an amazing Cap but it's frustrating to see that a lot of TFATWS is fallout of Steve's bad decisions in these three movies.

5. Captain America: John Walker

Now hold on, I hate this man. I think he does some awful things, so why is he above anyone else? Just because he isn't frustrating to me, he fits thematically and has good interactions with others in TFATWS.

His character really adds to the themes and discussions of white privilege, Supremacy, as well as how the US military treats their soldiers like shit, and I think he is an interesting character to watch as he starts out edging the line of evil and by the end of episode 4 crosses it. While I think Bucky was overall a bit too chummy with him in 6, I think it was all mostly in character for them. Sam and Bucky were up against 6 super soldiers and Batroc in a highly crowded city with lots of important people, it makes sense to me that they take his help in this scenario. They also never leave him alone which indicates distrust.

I also really like the moment where he drops the shield to help the truck. He is a shitty person but he is shown as a person who at least wants to do good, even though any challenge to that he goes off the rails. It is such a black and white scenario, help the truck of innocents, and I like that he does it. It also adds to the hatred of him as a person because it shows he clearly knows better but chooses to ignore it, which makes him even more despicable.

I think it is very important that a man like him bore the title of Captain America because it reminds us all that yes, it is very easy that a man like him represents America as it is and that we need to do better than him.

I like watching him and that's why he's above CW on Steve because he isn't making aggravatingly out of character decisions all of the time and he works very well within the themes of the show.

With me loving him in the context of TFATWS, in later appearances he does have a lot of potential to drop to last pretty easily, but as of now when he just is in that show, I appreciate his character a lot.

4. Red Guardian

I kinda like this character and idk how to feel about it

He doesn't fit Black Widow very much so he is kinda low but I mean, he's just kinda fun. His story about Captain America and the USSR is pretty non-related to the others and rather undeveloped which is frustrating, and he does very little plot significant things. He leads Nat and Yelena to Melina and that's about it. He distracts Taskmaster for a while but he kinda is just getting tossed around until Melina shows up. He isn't very important.

But I do like what I see and do hope we see more of him. They never pretend he's a great person and I do appreciate that he gets called on it constantly. His knuckles having Karl Marx on them kills me and overall he's pretty humorous and fun to watch. He also has a few great moments thematically that I love. When he comforts Yelena after the dinner scene and sings her favorite song as a kid? So heartwarming. When he took Taskmaster's shield when fleeing the Red Room I laughed at his ridiculousness but it lead to a pretty great moment, when he throws the shield through the windshield without hesitation to save Melina. It's a great moment to show how he's letting go of his past and obsessions to be there for his family.

I hope we see more of him, his overall lack of importance and stereotypical behavior kinda holds him back but I see so much potential in him.

3. Agent Carter

As of today she has been in exactly one 30 minute episode, but what I see I really like. Her laughter of surprise when she takes the tesseract is really endearing, her sword and muscles and height make my wlw heart patter, and I do like the difference in her relationship with Steve in this universe, where they both are of incredible capabilities but neither are given any respect for how they were born. We get that in TFA too but I really like that it is a constant theme in this iteration while in TFA it gets dropped a bit after Steve receives the serum.

There is very little of her so I can't really put her higher yet, but given more time she very well may rise up on this list but she had an excellent first showing.

2. Pre-CW Captain America: Steve Rogers

This man is a joy.

He is such an endearing scrappy little guy in the beginning of TFA and I love his commitment to doing the right thing. He still very much acts like a guy who just gained 120 pounds of muscle during that movie and it's endearing. The way he grows into his own skin in TWS is amazing as we see him really step in to what he can accomplish physically as well as his authority and leadership.

His Whedonisms in the first two Avengers films kinda bug me, they treat him like an old man when he isn't. Biologically he's like, early 30's at most here. He grew up as a fighter in Brooklyn then served in the military, he wouldn't care if his teammates swear, but overall it's tolerable.

I LOVE this man's commitment to transparency. He struggles when allies are not transparent and he shows nothing but transparency and I love that that is a constant for him (which is why I separate him from CW on)

Everyone loves this guy and over 90% of criticisms I see for him come after AoU, and that's for good reason, this guy is so loveable.

1. Captain America: Sam Wilson

He's so good, guys

I want to talk about Sam before the suit because he is amazing before it. He runs counseling for veterans, a profession very becoming of a superhero and it speaks to his incredible empathy and compassion that is on full display. I also think the fact that he dedicated 2 years to finding Bucky is not appreciated enough. Sure he was following Steve but he still spent 2 years trying to find Bucky, a person who tried to murder him. Yet he understands it isn't Bucky's fault and tries to help him anyway. I also really like that he is the first to speak out against the Accords. He doesn't wait for Steve or anyone else, he sees red flags and he is out and I really, really love that about him.

Then I love how long it takes for him to choose to become Cap and how much he contemplates it. He has to contemplate the legacy of Steve, if he wants to wear the symbol of this country, the pressures of being a black man as Cap, the legacy that John added to it, the pressures from Bucky and the pressures from Isaiah, and also his own legacy he carved for himself as the Falcon. It's a huge decision with a lot of weight and so many people pressuring him but he takes his time and chooses what is right for him, and I really love that about him. These other characters are all Caps from near the start but he transitions into one after years of knowing him as the Falcon and I love that he doesn't take this decision lightly.

Also as Cap he's just really cool. His decisions to not take the serum as well as try like hell to get Karli to step down speak to his humility and compassion. And while many describe his speech as bland it's still uniquely him. Yes the speech doesn't solve any problems but that isn't what he's doing, he's asking America and the world to get to actually solving them and that is an aspect of him we don't see much since Steve's propaganda days, his direct relation to the public.

Also his suit and wings are just awesome, I argue his action is the most fun to watch out of any of these characters.

Anyway yeah that's the list, I know people won't agree with me so let's try and keep discussion civil, alright?