#also good god pls dont be a t*rf i dont want to have wasted 20 minutes on this for nothing

[whoviandoodler]

Thanks for not being negative on my post, it was a 2am rant that i didnt intend to be read by anyone but those who themselves werent too happy w the book, so im glad that you heeded the warning (also, dont ever apologize for ur language skills when its not ur first lang, if someone picks at it they're being an asshole (it seems great, but im an english major who has a lot of Opinions abt the hegemony of english and the assumption that knowing english perfectly is some kind of bare minimum, so it saddens me when i see other non-native english speakers apologize unnecessarily- own the fact you know more than one language and never apologize for how well or badly you know your 2nd, 3rd, whatever; the people who matter will be glad you know at least some of their language and have put in an effort to communicate with them, and entitled assholes dont deserve attention))

That aside, I have a pretty bad case of post-exams woozy brain, so i hope my reply will be coherent, and i hope it doesnt sound rude, i dont mean it that way, im just giving my perspective. I mainly want to explain that while yes, calling someone queer solely for being flamboyant is stereotyping (dandies are, i suppose, the main argument that comes to mind lol, lots of them were straight and a lot of ppl in history acting in ways we would consider flamboyant now werent seen as queer then), a lot of queer culture is using stereotypes and assumptions to be visible- think if u see someone with blue hair and large earrings; yes, they might well be cishet, but i will assume they are one of ours, and ill give them a compliment that they, if they are indeed queer, will read as recognition.

Especially considering a history of queerness needing to be hidden and only being expressed through signals that other queer people will understand- languages like polari in britain, the handkerchiefs you'd put in your back pockets, saying someone does or doesnt speak latin in some english schools. And some signals are more well-known and have been a more visible signal throughout ages- men with higher voices, who were 'vain', who dressed a certain way-, and were used to queer code characters when they weren't allowed to be canonically queer. Think ryan from hsm- hes flamboyant, and he loves theater, and ashton cucher or whatever that guy's name is; yes, these are stereotypical traits of a queer man, but its those traits that helped 'those who know know' see themselves on screen, and they were purposefully implemented by the writers for that sspecific purpose.

My point is, yes, howl is flamboyant, and yes, flamboyancy is a part of why i read him as queer. He's the definition of a poor little meow meow, he has a college degree, he loves his earring and his hair and his suits and spends exorbitant amounts of money to make things beautiful. He also has ADHD, and the link between neurodivergency and queerness is another thing added to the list (and you could say much the same thing for him being nd- am i allowed to say he's nd bcs his house is a mess and he knows exactly where he put what and if u move it he wont be able to find it? and bcs hes an overthinker and anxious and has to lie to himself in order to get things done? none of these things mean he's nd, but i see my experiences and the experiences of my nd friends in him, and i hence identify him as such bcs he as a character cannot be consulted on his opinions- he exists not as a person, but a mix of traits that can be interpreted in dif ways) . He doesn't want to be a part of the mainstream, he doesnt want to do things other expect him to do. I see part of queer culture in him, and i compile them all unconsciously and read him as queer- a flamboyant university graduate with no real wish in life but to be free of capitalism and pursue his dreams? i'm going to filter that thru my experiences and knowledge, and im going to read him as queer.

I had certain expectations of the narrative, and I didnt get them from it, and i'm so jaded to the stories that end in marriage as the happy ending and have aspects of the kind of romance depicted in the book that i honestly dont believe that ill read it again, or that id have a dif experience if i did. I did come into it expecting a dif thing to the movie, and it wasn't the lack of kisses that discouraged me from getting engaged with their relationship, or that it was different and more real (as i said, they had teeth in the book, which id hoped coming into it since char flaws are what adds depth to a story and more interestingly moves it forward), it was the fact that a relationship made of arguing and snippets of attraction and peace ending in marriage and procreation has never appealed to me either irl or in stories, and tho not exclusive to cishet relationships, it is something that's seen as worth striving towards in some parts of that culture.

It was admittedly my fault that I hadn't checked the date of the book before id read it, and that i expected something of that book that it simply wasnt meant to be, pulled by the queer atmosphere of the movie (i cant fully describe to u how much that movie means to queer people in my circles, and how much we relate to it and see ourselves in it, either bcs howl is gender envy incarnate and has bisexuality vibes thru the roof (i have a bi trans friend who is, essentially, howl), or bcs the vague magical atmosphere of it is inviting).

With that all said, i want to add a disclaimer that ure free to read the book as u like, and to see the characters as you like. The beauty of stories is that we all experience them differently, and i'm not going to knock your interpretation of it any more than i will my own; i will, however, contest the idea that reading a character as queer bcs they embody certain stereotypes of queerness is incorrect and somehow harmful or shallow.

I have and will go on to read a number of books written in times and places where queer rep wasn't and isn't allowed, or is/was stigmatized enough to be avoided outright, and reading those kinds of books with the fear of seeing a character as queer bcs they embody queer stereotypes but havent outright said it is a disservice both to myself and the author's potential intentions.

It's important to remember that chars arent real, living people, and that labeling them as queer or not queer based on what they do and dont do does them no harm like it would to a real, living person (think what happened with kit connor, for example, or what happens to cishet ppl who cant wear what they like bcs someone might keep questioning their identity and not believe their words bcs of it).

(this is a ramble and isn't complimentary, so if you're in this tag purely for positive stuff, please swerve around this post; you have been warned, so pls don't add negativity to this post either, thanks)

Just finished hmc (book) and i have so many conflicting thoughts about it. Like it was obviously very well written in terms of the worldbuilding and the characters and the plot but then with the romance it felt,,, so odd to me.

Maybe it's the fact that it's decades old, but it has that feeling of vagueness that classics and stuff often do, where I don't feel at all invested because it all feels surface level. Like Sophie and Howl clearly have a connection, but I felt like it was never explored in a way that tugged at my heart strings, it was more like they had the grounds for friendship and then bippity boppity they held hands and were getting married.

Which gets me to another thing- this felt very much like someone had taken a very interesting queer character and put them in a very heteronormative romance plot??? Like howl has such major queer vibes, but then he interacts with sophie and vice versa like they're the protags of every heteronormative straight romance book (if there weren't even making out to keep your attention on SOMETHING), and it just feels like they were done dirty even tho they are as the author intended them to be and saw them as.

Idk just... They're such interesting characters and I would have loved to see their love story if it weren't trapped in a heteronormative cage.

The rest of the story is just so incredibly fun and engaging that whenever this stuff popped up and they were forced to play into these roles it felt jarring and left me at the end wondering if I'd just ruined the experience I knew from the ghibli movie and wasted hours just to end up feeling neutral about the story.