#also calling me homophobic for expressing my dislike of those two ships when I explicitly talked about SEVERAL OTHER GAY SHIPS in the post

[fantastic-nonsense]

I was trying so hard to like the one discourse post you added to that it took me a minute to realize one of the other blogs must have me blocked lol. Anyway just wanted to say I really appreciated your addition and how you broke it down (plus it's just really interesting history in general). I was talking to a friend about it the other day and this'll be nice to reference as well! Hope your day is going well : )

Yeah. They blocked me pertty quickly, and I also think they're blocking anyone who likes it via me. Which. Understandable given that we are clearly polar opposites in opinion and they seem to want to block rather than engage with anyone who disagrees with them (I also took a cursory look at the blog early this morning after I saw this ask and they seemed to think I was agreeing with Frederic Wertham in my response, which. lol. no.).

I've done my time in the ship war trenches and I have zero interest in picking fights (morality-based or otherwise) over ships like I'm still a teenager. I think the core thing that bothered me is just the really open assertion that those ships (especially in the context of comics canon) were ever considered "vanilla" or "unproblematic" by the fandom-at-large at some point in the pre-"AO3 is the core repository of fandom content" era past when anyone older than 25 could tell you that was literally never the case.

Like, if you want to ship them fine. Gross, but as long as you tag it appropriately so I can avoid it it's fine; that's why AO3 has a tagging system and tumblr has a blacklist function. But to then go out of your way to assert that JayDick or BruDick was a "historically vanilla and unproblematic ship, actually!" while claiming everyone who disagrees is a "homophobic anti" is just utterly bizarre behavior.

[inmyarmswrappedin]

Can you rank the isak/Jonas friendship in terms of friendship dynamic and the characters individually

Hi anon 🍃 lol sorry, this is so late. I hope you’re still paying attention to these. 

Isak/Jonas: It's funny because, in hindsight, I feel like other remakes developed this friendship more, or gave them more dialogue so that certain things were explicitly expressed (like the Jonas' remorse about the homophobic jokes of yesteryear), or they simply come across as closer friends because we get more insta content. But I think that both Isak and Jonas are fully realized characters. I love Jonas Vasquez and I can totally see why Isak idolized him, even when Jonas was a little shit. And I just about adore Jonas' reaction to Isak coming out, it feels 100% true to his character to take it in, put himself in Isak's shoes and say the one thing Jonas would like to hear if he were telling Isak about a girl. Isak and Jonas may not necessarily be the closest Isak and Jonas pair, but they feel like two good, teenie male friends, and that counts for a lot in my book.

Shay/Marlon: Surprise? I love these two and I think they're tight as fuck. I'm basically headcanoning here, but I think one of the reasons Shay isn't out to everyone yet isn't so much because what other people might say, but what Marlon might think. (And here it helps that Marlon is fairly woke, but nowhere near tumblr standards. We know Marlon will react well because he's a Jonas, but there's some room for uncertainty.) As for Marlon, while I think he's pretty self-centered, I can't help but have some fondness for this dumb teenie who's so devoted to his friends that he's selling his meds in order to make their band happen. I mean, it seems like he's financing their soundcloud rapping career all on his own, and I'm supposed to frown upon his drug dealing ways? Absolutely not. Anyway, I love that Shay and Marlon are friends from way back. I love that Marlon is such a lesbro and that Shay knew she needed to become bff with a white guy for protection.  

Lucas/Jorge: Remake Jonas stans will argue that this or that Jonas figured out early on that their Isak was gay, but Jorge was the only one who canonly noticed early on and tried to be there for Lucas without pushing him. There's a reason that the Spanish boy squad isn't homophobic (and yet, as per one of Lucas' videos, not immediately educated about everything ever) and it's because Jorge would have never allowed that shit. And you know it. Jorge loves the shit out of Lucas, and Lucas knows that he's loved. Sometimes a best friend that you know will always be there is way more important than a love story, and this is true for Lucas Rubio.

Matteo/Jonas A: I was really, really conflicted about these two. I'm more of a David fan, and I generally don't care for Jonas A. But after some soul searching, I realized I couldn't list Matteo any lower than this without feeling like a TRAITOR to him, and for all his faults, Jonas A is a fairly good friend. I feel like there's a lot of love between Jonas and Matteo, but at the same time I also feel like there's nothing much that binds them together? Like, I actually think as the years go by, Hanna will become Matteo's go-to confidante over Jonas, because I feel like she and Matteo have more in common. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

Lucas/Yann: I'm only rating them this high because I really love Yann, despite how dirty the writing team post s2 did him. The thing is, many Jonases do make homophobic jokes in s1, but the one big gay joke Jonas makes in s1, about Isak only liking gay songs, was not what Yann said in s1. He said Lucas only liked songs for virgins. (I haven't watched s1 a lot so I might be missing some examples.) So I just don't get why Yann had to be scapegoated like that. I would've been fine with it if they hadn't made Yann leaving Lucas at the bench the damn cliffhanger for episode 6, if episode 6 had started with that scene and finished with the table football scene. But Skam France didn't want to have it like that, and yeah, it still bothers me. But I do like Yann, and I thought he was a great friend in s1 and s2.

Lucas/Kes: I feel like I don't have a ton of insight into this friendship, because Skam NL favors visuals over dialogue a lot. I feel like Lucas and Kes are only friends because they're both cool kids in the same way and they go to the same school, but nothing beyond that. Lucas comes across as a free agent, and Kes and Noah read as much closer with each other. That said, Lucas and Kes have the most sexual tension out of any Isak/Jonas pair (I'm thinking specifically of that dancing scene in the cabin episode), in a sort of unspoken way. I don't think Kes is into Lucas necessarily, but I feel like he does pick up on Lucas' crush subsconsciously and fucks with Lucas' head to test his reaction. So they're not the closest of friends in my opinion, but they have a unique dynamic among the pairs.

Martino/Giovanni: The thing about Giovanni is that I've had enough of this dude, essentially. I liked him well enough in s1 and s2, but I love Jonas V more than any Jonas and I really disliked how Giovanni was hailed not just as a better friend than Jonas V, but also the gold standard of what a best friend should be. And it's just weird as fuck to me that every remake Jonas should be compared not to the Skam character, but to a copy of this character played by a more conventionally attractive actor? And like... Don't tell me that's not a factor on why Giovanni has such a fandom, because I saw with my own eyes how Chris/Eva shippers reluctantly shipped Eva/Gio over Eva/Federico, because Giovanni is more gorgeous (and tbh, a better actor) than Federico. But anyway, Martino and Giovanni are fine, I'm just really tired of people bringing Giovanni up in any discussion about the Jonases.

Robbe/Jens: I watched Wtfock before s3 started, and I just never got the appeal of Robbe. I couldn't imagine why people were looking forward to his season because there was nothing interesting about him as far as I could see. (Whereas I find Yasmina more interesting.) As for Jens, I thought the actor was better looking than the one playing Luka, so it's one of those cases where I wondered why anyone would ship Jana/Luka based on looks alone, lol. And then s3 came along, and for whatever reason, the writers decided that they were going to make a plot point of Robbe urgently needing a place to live, and Jens turning down his requests to stay over. It's just so unlike what I'd expect a best friend to do, that I can't fuck with Robbe/Jens at all. I don't care if Jens later became the biggest LGBTI ally, that's a dick move.

BONUS

Cris/Amira: I don't really consider them an Isak/Jonas pair because they only have like... two scenes that I'd call Isak/Jonas scenes. Cris only ever crushed on Amira in my mind, and only ever ruined Amira's relationships with dudes in my mind, so they don't have that Isak/Jonas history. But I really love how Skam España approached and adapted this friendship for Cris. I love not just that Amira is Cris' Jonas, but how she is Cris' Jonas. They're childhood friends who are becoming two different women, and yet that's not a cause for them to grow apart, but to love and value each other more. Sometimes remakes rely on Skam for exposition, like we have to assume a remake character did this thing because that's the reason the Skam character did it, even if it's not actually stated in the remake in question. With Cris/Amira, Skam España actually relies on Skam to provide some context for who Amira is and what she gets out of her friendship with Cris before we've actually watched her season. We don't know everything that Amira went through when she started wearing hijab, but we can guess based on what we saw in Sana's season. And that's why the Amira/Cris friendship is so powerful, because Cris constantly professes that their friendship is forever. It's one of the cases where knowledge of Skam actually compliments the remake, rather than Skam doing heavy lifting for the remake.