#abberry answers

[abberryyang]

guess who 🤣🤣🤣

OF COURSE.

[abberryyang]

Something I hate with TV shows when they introduce kids, is the whole, they’ve aged years while the adults haven’t changed at all-physically or emotionally. Seeing William recently from when I first saw him, freaks me out. Ollie and Flish are the same people they were then.

People tell me that having kids changes you. 

And while I love that sentiment, I feel there are some who don’t, in real life. Felicity and Oliver are definitely one of those couples who don’t change at all. It’s sad because you saw some character growth from Oliver, when he finds out he has a son, and it just be completely destroyed because of who he chose to be as his romantic partner.

I’m with Grandma Clayton, they abandoned William and did a terrible job at being parents for him - especially Felicity as his “step-mom”. Who leaves a child alone on the holidays, the very first holiday he spends without his mom? Completely heartless.

[abberryyang]

if there was an episode of arrow or even legends where e1 laurel and e2 laurel met, what would you like to see happen

I get so emotional because last year it was a E2 showing E1 what she could have been if she embraced her darhkness, but now it’s like, I want E1 to just embrace E2 and validate her - it makes me so overly emotional knowing how far E2 has come and how proud E1 would be of her. I would love to see them both living in on E1 together, like identical twins, getting into all sorts of shenanigans, especially when she is Black Canary and DA Lance. I still wish the Vigilantes were outed, because there could have been so many running gag’s for the two.Otherwise, on Legends, I would love if they could help E2 never lose her dad, and we explore E2, in general, more. I still feel and know that the meta-humans on E2 were treated as second class citizens, and to watch E2 and E1 go to save them, along with the LoT team would be amazing.What about you, Anon? :)

[abberryyang]

you with those tags @ my batb post I SEE YOU

I AM CRYING AND HYPERVENTILATING.

the parallels ... my heart... breaking TmT 3

[abberryyang]

oh my god thank you, i never see people post about how awful felicity was to black siren but it was... honestly really skeevy how she acted! from the whole clearly projecting thing to offering alcohol to a recovering alcoholic if she was wrong to having the team turn on black siren

I’m still waiting for her to apologize. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love their growing friendship but damn straight, I expect Felicity to apologize.

[abberryyang]

Okay, quick thing: the events of CW's The Flash has changed the Arrowverse's timeline before, right? And it's happening again with Nora West-Allen. Could that possibly revive dead characters? Tommy? Laurel?

It definitely should have! 

I’m a little more than disappointed that the writers went the route they did - but to get all of your hopes up, because mine are certainly up, there’s an episode titled “Lost Canary” that is theorized to be Laurel’s Birds of Prey inspired episode, and the “Legends of Tomorrow” episode that airs around the same time, on IMDB, says that Sara tries to bring Laurel back.

Of course, the episode airs on April 1st, and a writer of LoT says that summary is wrong, but I’m so used to them lying to us now that I could give less than two shits about recent interviews lol

Sooo, some Laurel stans on Twitter are theorizing that Sara brings our - no, I did not fucking stutter - our Dinah Laurel Lance back, and they all establish the Canary Network, we could very much see both of our girls, E1 and E2, on the same show! *ugly sobbing*

Now, now, now, I know what some of you are saying, but Tonya Kong, who wrote on Daredevil, when she got started used the hashtag #TaleofTwoLaurels, which many thought implied they plan to bring our girl back. Tonya wrote for freaking Daredevil, she could foreshadow anything a mile away and be completely slick with it - so yes, yess, I am holding out hope that Tonya will deliver. Do I trust Beth? Maybe. Do I trust Tonya? With my last breath.

[abberryyang]

Sorry to bother you with this but I was on Reddit and came across a Dinah/Laurel ship pic and someone said "why be with someone who killed your love" and it made me think of Felicity and I guess what I wanna know is Do you think the writers should have ever let Felicity go back to Oliver after he killed (set up he was but still, killed) her at-the-time boyfriend?

Oh man. This is some heavy stuff, let me get on my computer for this:

The one thing writers did not do in S5 was let Felicity properly develop as a character.

What the writers wanted was for Felicity to go through what they wanted Laurel to in 5 years time, condensed into a time span of 3 to 5 months, this idea of their “island”. Whereas Laurel has a 7 year island, Oliver being there for her one in a half years, present in the last half, with a lot of time to see her develop into a vigilante hero - because she was already a hero in the daylight. When compared to Laurel, and hell, even Thea, Felicity is nowhere near the development of either female characters, and she’s had more screen time at this point in the show - since S3.

Now, full disclosure, I’m comparing her to Laurel and Thea as female leads of the show, not to pit her against the other women. Felicity is *not* a feminist icon, to me, and hasn’t been since ever. (That’s a whole other ask to ask lol)

When Billy dies, we never ever see Felicity and Oliver even talk about it, at all, that he killed her boyfriend. It is literally everyone coming together to hug Oliver and say, “I am sorry you killed someone innocent.” and then having Felicity cry over it and use her anger, immediately, as a reason to hate E2 LL, as a jealous, pitiful, ex-girlfriend of his first-love. The two never talk about it, there’s no verbalization of Felicity even forgiving Oliver or Oliver asking her for forgiveness. There’s not even a funeral or Oliver, as the Mayor, honoring the loss of Detective Billy Malone. It is all around disgusting and emphasizes why they are so bad for each other, in the first place. Felicity only knows the mask, she knows nothing of the man underneath it.

When Tommy died, Laurel blamed The Hood, because she thought he let him die and goes after him. Oliver was so broken for so long that Laurel blamed him - he thought, but Laurel never blamed Oliver, she blamed The Hood, and the moment he says The Hood is him, Laurel understands - she immediately takes back what she says and knows Oliver did his best to save Tommy. This scene really  showed that Laurel will always believe Oliver, she cares about him beyond the mask. Laurel doesn’t know The Hood, she knows the man underneath it.

Felicity Smoak deserves better, Oliver Queen deserves better, Laurel Lance deserved better.

[abberryyang]

Even though I know you dislike Felicity would you have been interested in Lauricity friendship? Ah I'm already regretting this.

Ohh, don’t be scared, I actually loved lauricity through S2 and some of S3!

It wasn’t until I realized Felicity did not value the same things as Laurel, disrespected her with the whole “I will go cry to my boyfriend’s first love, AKA his ex, that he was actively pursuing and protecting for two years, about him and how much I love him and how much he loves me and I know they were trying to work it out last year, and she might still like him, but it’s about me and how I feel”. Then when the whole S5 thing happened, where Felicity displaced all her anger about Laurel, how much Oliver loved her and what she meant to him as a person, friend, and first love, onto Black Siren, E2 Laurel Lance, I have been turned off from the idea ever since. :(

It’s sad how quickly that changes when they are finally on-screen together, especially after the wonderful support Felicity gave Laurel in S2, when Felicity and Oliver *weren’t* together.

[abberryyang]

I'm so angry I saw this post saying Laurel was the "bitch" & one in the wrong in the Laurel/Ollie/S@r@ situration because pre show S@r@ had a crush on him "forever" which Laurel knew & dated him anyway. Like LL stole Ollie from S@r@ so S@r@ cheating was ok like she has dibs on him like LL betrayed HER. It boggles my mind. S@r@ teenager with crush a 20 something guy her sis had feelings for too. Why do some S@r@ fans think Laurel stole everything thay feel belongs to S@r@. She the rip off of LL

I find it appalling that anyone even believes what S@ra says on the island, because she flat out tells lies every waking moment she is there - she is a compulsive liar who will do anything to keep herself alive and everyone falls for it, even the fucking audience.

I went on a bit of a rant, figure if anyone wants to read it, they’ll just click more.

S@ra’s character really doesn’t have a purpose, other than to die and be a catalyst towards a direction that Laurel was already headed in. 

As Quentin said, “Your life was always headed for that mask.” through Laurel’s constant life endangerment (already as a lawyer), her desire to be an officer, and her martial art skills shown in S1 - Laurel was already a well-established character in regards to becoming the Black Canary, her island was drugs and alcohol abuse and learning to channel the anger through her training with Wildcat to the vigilante life-style. Which, even without Oliver or S@ra, Laurel still would be a vigilante by learning from Wildcat and his vigilante lifestyle. As much as I “enjoy” S@ra (now that she’s on Legends and is a “supposed” redeemed sister), there was never a need for her return and Laurel’s storyline never needed her death to become the Black Canary.

A lot of what S@ra was given, to enhance her storyline (in relation to comic!Dinah), e.g. League of Assassins, bisexuality, and martial art skills; relationship to Oliver, leader of a team of heroes, and Sin Lance, are all things literally shoved in to give her character relevance that wasn’t otherwise there, in the promo or in the entirety of S1. Even on the island, having the entirety of Slade’s revenge be over a dead woman because it was either S@ra or Shado was just as equally disgusting as the creation of S@ra to watch Katie’s pain as she watched someone else get to wear the suit before her - absolutely disgusting. Everything about bringing in S@ra destroyed Oliver’s previous character development, which Manu Bennet would completely agree with, everything about S@ra is terrible - especially on the island.

S@ra is a complete liar, terrible character, and stands for only herself - the only reason I even like her is because Laurel did her absolute best to redeem and love her despite all of that (same reason I put up with Oliver’s dumb ass, and now that she’s gone I suddenly hate him - hrm, wonder why).

[abberryyang]

I rewatched the beginning of arrow and it’s just wow I can’t even watch the early seasons anymore without getting angry about how they end up treating so many characters.

All of them honestly, it’s sad. Before it was just Moira and Laurel, but now, looking at Oliver, Quentin, Diggle, Felicity, Carly, Slade - every single character from S1 is treated terribly or dead. It went from “This isn’t Game of Thrones” to crickets as bodies just dropped.

EDIT: I miss what Arrow used to be, and I’m trying really hard to stay positive, but the only positive source would be fan-fiction, which is what I should be doing right now lol

[abberryyang]

Does it bother you that Ms Empathy-is-her-superpower couldn't understand Oliver's darkness or trust him or get him or whatever until she went on her own bullshit journey of darkness in s5. Which had no consequences for her btw. Only then could she 'get it' trust him and be ready to be with him & marry him. That's how show decided to play it not Oliver healings from things and finding more light in his life with good person as a partner. No rising up only falling down. It all rather sad and small

I’m conflicted because them getting married makes absolutely no sense?

I understood Oliver’s POV, seeing Barry and Iris getting married, making him feel things and want things, especially since in the stasis, his dream world is being married to the woman of his life (so he has to settle since his dream girl is gone). Oliver is like a lot of other guys, they just know they want to get married and are willing to tie the knot with whomever they are dating even if they’ve only been together for a week - but Felicity has treated him like shit since S3.

Felicity I don’t get at all, and it didn’t help that Reverse Flash told her that she doesn’t make history but Barry, Oliver, and Laurel do. People can say all they want “it’s because she realized how short life is” but when? When did she really? Felicity didn’t see her doppelgänger, see that in this world Oliver and her aren’t meant to be together and that bothered her (it just bothered her that it was Kara he was with), and she didn’t know that Oliver’s doppelgänger was supposed to kill her in that world. I just don’t get how she gets from “I don’t want to marry you” and “we don’t need a marriage to prove we love each other or are with each other” to “let me interrupt someone else’s big day to do our wedding vows and then have our own wedding in our own town AND MAKE IT A HUGE DEAL”.

I am still at a loss for words that there was absolutely no repercussions for any of her actions is S5. 

How do you get away with letting out a super villain, and then demand Oliver to come back and clean up your mess, when his now motherless child needs him the most? Don’t even get me started on how Felicity is not Mother-material, she is a child.

My big thing is, I am completely against the idea of having someone “fix you”, 

I am all for them finding themselves or because “I love you I decide to be a better person because you deserve the best version of me”. I absolutely hate that they paint Felicity as Oliver’s “light”, “compass”, or “heart” - because like what Barry and Laurel said Oliver needs to be his own fucking light. Felicity never once put any effort into understanding Oliver or hearing him out - on anything - and we’re supposed to accept that in half a season she understands him completely and faces no repercussions and doesn’t develop as a character? 

The writing, the writing is so shit. I am eternally sad.

[abberryyang]

Sorry to bother you but this was on my mind and you're thee only one I know to turn to with this and I'd hate to pull old stuff up but. Do you think it's true what people have been saying about EBR with having connections in the business and in the beginning riling her 'famous' friends up to make Olicity a thing and get herself further ahead on the show?

Mmm. Nope. 

Honestly, I think it helps, but I can’t see EBR encouraging her friends do this to KC and ‘pretending’ to love her as much as she does now. EBR is a sweet girl, with great friends, and I would be baffled if she turned out to be a cruel person.

[abberryyang]

Thing I never get is for people who believe Sara's best time was being Canary and that she is the true Black Canary is how Sara says that The Canary was never that positive for her. An assassin is last thing BC is. There is just completely disconnect in my mind.

The Canary was never positive for her - ever.

And a lot of people can’t stand that, especially the fans who loved her character in that duration of her storyline. Listen, I don’t blame them for saying, “hey, this is when I loved the character” but they need to acknowledge that Sara hated herself during that time. Sara created orphans, widows, and was completely numb to it - a lot of this development, as a character, is completely done through exposition rather than flashbacks or just us seeing her do the actions. 

Even on the island, Sara took advantage of the Crazy Scientists infatuation for her, just so she could be safe, while she experimented on the other prisoners - as long as it meant keeping herself safe. Sara even gave away Slade, Shado, and Oliver’s location if it meant she would be safe - there is really no reason why anyone should like her character at this point in time. And honestly, that scene with the pilot was sooo forced, just so we could have Sara take in Sin, when they could’ve easily done a storyline for Laurel to adopt Sin. It just, wow.

Sometimes, I wonder if Sara really loved Nyssa or if she used Sara to ensure her safety from Ra’s. Of course, it may have developed to actual love later, but the amount of times Sara has left Nyssa “just because” VS just staying with her because Sara loves her. I just, wow, I can’t. Listen, I love Nyssara, but that is fucking problematic and is never addressed.

Sara is the definition of survival over morals. Sara has always been a character who’s motivation is her own needs, wants, and desires. A lot of times, we as an audience, along with all the characters, can’t tell when Sara is even telling the truth or a lie - she is a pathological liar when we meet her on the island and when we see her interact with her family and Oliver!

Honestly, as much as I love Sara, she is a completely selfish sister, who never deserved Laurel’s forgiveness and got it anyways. If it wasn’t for Laurel’s love of Sara, I would never, ever, like her until she moved over to Legends.

The main reason why people love Sara is because of Caity Lotz and what she brings to the character. Caity is a spunky girl, who is a tiny bad ass, with an innocent look to her, and she demands that her character is written with the justice that she always deserved but never got on Arrow. 

I just wish the development on Legends addressed her problematic behavior on Arrow, and how she’s changed from that - otherwise, she just seems like an entirely new character.

[abberryyang]

I feel like Felicity not going Laurel's Black Canary memorial statue unveiling said a lot Felicity's true feelings long before Black Siren showed up & she revealed jealousy towards Laurel & Siren.

I missed when Felicity used to like Laurel, in S1, S2, and S3 - especially in S3. But then the episode Siren comes back, it was just all undone in that nasty speech she has with Laurel’s doppelgänger. It was like all the hate she had for Laurel was just unearthed and it was…ugly.

I was already disgusted by her jealousy of Sara, Helena, and Shado - but damn, Laurel, too? I mean, it should be obvious with her pattern of hating any woman near Oliver, but damn, Laurel got along with everyone. It was just, no, the writers did their relationship dirty.

Felicity is jobless and she still couldn’t find time to go see Laurel’s unveiling - wasn’t she sleeping with Malone at that time? I don’t remember, probably.

[abberryyang]

O/icity stans are out here trying to claim Black Siren can't be redeemed because she killed some people. Yeah, well sweeties, your precious fave literally nuked a town how do you come back from that one? They just need to shut up and accept the facts we got a redemption arc.

I’m not too big of a fan of pitting against women on each other, and they will always refute that argument with “she was forced to” but we all know that she admitted to knowing space coordinates.

If anything, I love bringing up Oliver to them.

Adrian Chase established last season that all throughout S1 to S4 that Oliver deliberately chose to kill and that he enjoyed it. People can say that he was under duress, but he still admitted to the fact that he chose to kill those people. Oliver could’ve chosen not to kill - very similarly to how Siren chose not to kill anyone in that room when she saved them from Cayden’s ba-ba-bomb. Of course, 

“call me by a man’s name instead of a woman’s and suddenly every horrific thing I’ve done, makes me a hero.”

[abberryyang]

I've said this many times before: Felicity and Emily deserve better fans.

Oh yeah, tons, I honestly feel terrible for EBR, and I see why she doesn’t like coming to cons. Who could blame her for having anxiety when literally all of her fans want her to be a home-wrecker and don’t care about her character outside of Oliver. It’s a damn shame.