#a fandom poll? the thing that killed jason todd?

[halogalopaghost]

I see your Jason Todd who's reckless and isn't afraid of death and raise you:

Jason Todd who gets shaky at the sight of his own blood. Jason Todd as the only bat that Alfred doesn't have to physically threaten to take the night off. Jason Todd who does his physical therapy exercises like evening prayers. Jason Todd who takes a week off for a couple of broken ribs because he KNOWS what a collapsed lung feels like, and the rubbing of broken rib ends grates across his chest and nerves like nails on a chalkboard x100. Jason Todd who knows what dying is like, knows what his limits are, and doesn't even come close to crossing that line.

[definitelynotindecisive]

Yes, I'm doing the Jason Todd thing. Her life hangs in the balance, based on a fandom poll.

The link to the fanfiction is here, You With the Watercolour Eyes

PROPAGANDA BELOW

In favour of YES:

Just think how fucking devastating it would be. Peter and Parker have lost so much that have made up their lives. They've lost almost all their loved ones, their friends and family, their way of life. And wouldn't killing Harley Quinn, who has fast become a parental/aunt figure just make that angst all the sweeter? And the fall out of it, not just in Peter's life, but Poison Ivy's, the Riddler's, all of the Batfam's, particularly Bruce Wayne's. So much angst to feed from, so much emotion and turmoil. Tasty, tasty anguish.

In favour of NO:

Peter and Parker have lost so much, it would be a sign that maybe, just maybe, this new universe could bring some hope. Something for Peter to hold onto. It would make his journey back to his father, Dick, a bit smoother, and a bit kinder. And doesn't Peter deserve to be treated gently for once in his life? Doesn't he deserve a happier ending where it doesn't come at the cost of blood and tears?

In favour of a different character that we love being killed in Harley's place - suggestions:

Aunt Pam

Mr Jones

Uncle Eddie

Uncle John

Bruce Wayne

Daphne Pennyworth

Alfred Pennyworth

Jason Todd

Dick Grayson

Barbara Gordon

[sasheneskywalker]

looking at the recent poll about dc's biggest misconceptions on @/dc-polls and generally existing in the dc (mostly bat) fandom on tumblr has really showed me that a lot of people tend to call "a misconception" or "not canon" anything they personally dislike or any character interpretation they don't like, even when it's a plausible reading. there's this total refusal to accept as canon anything that contradicts their favorite era of comics (post-crisis most of the time), builds upon it in a way they disagree with or portrays their favorite character doing something they hate. i often see these people acting with condescension and arrogance towards fans who enjoy newer eras of comics or even arguing that because they believe something is out of character, it's not truly canon or claiming that their subjective opinion is actually a canon fact. i have no problem with people saying "this didn't happen in post-crisis/pre-flashpoint era" or "this doesn't seem like something this character would do" but these statements are often extended to "and therefore it's not canon, an utter misinterpretation, and anybody who likes it or uses it in their character analysis isn't a real comics fan."

some examples of "misconceptions" from the aforementioned dc's biggest misconception tournament:

"Bernard is a great partner for Tim." -> that's a personal opinion

"Batman is a dick to poor people." -> bruce is a multifaceted character and doing good things (donating to charity, giving scholarships, building orphanages, etc.) does not preclude you from being a dick other times and holding harmful biases (calling poor people some heinous names and being prejudiced towards them) (*yes, it's often the writer's fault for making bruce their mouthpiece but it happens often enough that at this point it's a consistent part of his characterization)

"Damian has tried to kill Tim Drake multiple times." -> as another person has pointed out in the reblogs, it is perfectly reasonable for fans to interpret incidents when damian seriously hurt tim as murder attempts. there may be disagreement over this interpretation, but it's not a misconception.

"Roy Harper and Jason Todd are best friends." -> jason and roy have canonically been friends for 13 irl years, across multiple reboots and comic runs. just because you don't like it doesn't make it not canon. (it's similar to jason & tim. yes, they weren't close in the post-crisis era. however, they started being portrayed as friends in the new 52. you might hate it, but it is canon.)

"WFA is a good way to get into the world." -> that's a personal opinion

For me it just feels like calling out these "fandom misconceptions" is mostly a way to make yourself seem superior and dismiss other people's thoughts.

[yall-hate-kids-tourney]

Loser Round 4: Damian Wayne (DC) vs. Jason Todd (DC)

A rematch? It's so funny how the bracket turned out this way.

Propaganda under the cut.

Damian Wayne (9-14):

Damian is a kid who was raised as an assassin and because of that when he first appears he has some really messed up ideas of how to prove himself to his father by being aggressive with the criminals they capture and attacking his brother. Because of this people act like he is the most evil character ever and refuse to give him any grace. They make him out to be this awful irredeemable monster who just wants to kill his brother and hurt people. If the fandom isn’t making his out to be The Worst(tm) then they are ignoring his existence all-together. He is a really interesting character who has done some not so great things but he’s grown and learned a lot through various character arcs (as much of an arc as a comic book character can have) and he deserves to be acknowledged for himself and not just as a villain so that people can woobify his brother.

——

HES JUST A LITTLE BABY GUY!!!!! Little baby man raised as an assassin and learning how to be a real person <3. But because he was kind of a dick and also a little stabby early-on, especially to the fandom's main "so sad uwu depressed baby" blorbo (and also he's not white), people treat him like he's satan incarnate

Jason Todd (~12):

Most of the Tumblr fandom likes this guy but if you step outside this website then wham so many people say he got what he deserved as a kid and Batman can't be cool if he's a dad so it's important for Batman to trash-talk his dead child constantly so we can all agree what a bad idea it was. Also wanna highlight that a lot of the records we have from fans at the time were clear they disliked Robin for BEING a child. Like a lot of the little dude characters in this tournament are treated too harshly for making an ugly choice and the fans aren't being understanding or sympathetic that the choice is made by a child character who is immature and not developed and strong enough to make a good choice and stuff. But THIS little dude was specifically hated FOR being a child. People wanted tough loner guy Batman not Batdad and his little buddy. The first Robin would drive back from college and guest star sometimes and be advertised as the Teen Wonder and people were like yeah okay but then Batman actually starts being a single parent for a child with needs and people were like UGH not the BOY Wonder. Today pretty much everywhere you see Batman fans saying Batman is better solo, no kid, it's not realistic to have a kid, a kid shouldn't be in the movies blah. Even if the comics they always find a way to send away the new kid so that Batman never has to parent. So all the Robins are being excluded from the narrative but I think this one is THE symbol of Batman fans hating a child character just for being a child.

-

Robin, Jason Todd, THE hated child character. In the 1980s, Batman comics had become increasingly dark and gritty. According to editor O'Neil himself, the courted audience wasn't kids but 19-40 year old men with disposable income. Batman's child sidekick, Robin, was offensively campy and childish. Fans called him wimpy, annoying, dumb, bratty, etc. Also people complained that Batman acting like an affectionate dad was unmanly and gay. Robin acts violent and emotional and people are like "ew he's so childish and emotional"—and then Batman literally acts just as murderously and emotionally within literally the same exact story and people are like "wow he's so dark and tortured". So in 1988 (after brutalizing Batgirl to get rid of her for being too bright and nice and kid-friendly), DC held a paid poll for fans to vote for Robin to live or die. O'Neil claims he heard a fan (a grown man with a dayjob as a lawyer) programmed a phone to spam kill votes. One fanguy claimed that he sold his Mercedes to buy kill votes (probably an exaggeration but still). By less than 1% margin, the vote decided to kill Robin in a spectacularly violent way. Anyway the 1989 Batman movie brought in a huge wave of new child comicbook fans who liked the new Robin (a very cool teenage high school Robin with a driver's license and a girlfriend), and DC started a separate Robin-less Batman series called Legends of the Dark Knight to make the anti-Robin writers and fans happy. But to this day, many fans agree it was a good idea to kill off the other Robin so that his foolish death reminds other characters to never be childish and stupid again. Bonus: the current Robin (usually a traumatized 10-year-old) has also been facing some pretty loud hatred for over 15 years.

[sundrop-writes]

What fandom should I focus on writing for during the month of March?

Hey everyone! My birthday is on Friday - which I am really excited about. I'm going out for my birthday and I'm probably gonna take a few days off after that just to relax and hang out, so I won't be working on fics for a few days, but - when I come back, I want to be working on some fun stuff. And that means I have posted my last fic of February.

However, lately, I have had a really hard time choosing between what WIPs I want to work on. I had more focus during the month of February because I was rewatching The Walking Dead and only working on WIPs related to that fandom, so I have decided that this is something new I am gonna try. Every month (or so), I am gonna post a poll to decide which fandom I am gonna work on. And then, whatever the winner of the poll is, I am gonna rewatch the source material and focus my energy on only working on WIPs from that fandom.

So, if you have really wanted to see me work on something from one of these fandoms, now is your time to speak up. I will weight the results of the poll - but I will also more heavily weigh the opinions of people who comment on this poll and tell me if there's a particular WIP you're excited about or if you send me an anon message saying so. I was slightly considering putting Stranger Things and/or Criminal Minds on this list, but I don't quite think I'm ready to get back to writing for those fandoms yet. But whatever the winner of this poll is won't be on next month's poll. So I might need another fandom to fill that slot.

Anyway, please read through this list or consult my general list of WIPs for 2025, and please let me know what you think!

Examples of WIPs From Each Fandom:

(Fics that I'm really excited about potentially working on, so that you guys know what you're voting for)

DC Titans

My main priority for this fandom would be the second part of The Jaws of Life - Jason Todd x GN!Reader. Which, so far, nobody has asked about and the original comment goal has not been met. You can read the first part here if you have not read it, or read the original 'first part' of the series - Emergency Contact.

I would also potentially like to work on a third part to the series:

Death of An Executioner - Jason Todd x GN!Reader. Lovers Fighting. Hurt and Comfort, Extreme Angst, Happy Ending. Set during Season 3. Sequel to the above fic. You and Jason are standing on rocky ground. He feels like he owes Crane his life because the man literally brought him back from the dead, but you don't care about that - you just want to ditch Gotham and run away to chase peace somewhere else. Things get a lot more complicated when Crane realises he can use you to his advantage, and Jason finally has to go crawling back to the Titans, begging for their help. (10,000 words est.) (This will be the sequel to The Jaws of Life, ending out the story as a perfect trilogy. It is my ultimate goal to write this story sometime during 2025, finishing out the arc of the trilogy with my ideal perfect ending.)

Also, I really want to work more on the 'One Moment Per Episode With Dick Grayson' Series. I really want to write more of these. It's a lot of fun and I really want to make more progress on it!

Teen Wolf

Bark Like You Want It aka The Isaac Closet Rut Fic - Sub!Isaac Lahey x Fem!Thick!Reader. Acquaintances/Friends to Lovers. Smut. Set during Season 3. You and Isaac get stuck restocking the janitor's closet together during a detention punishment, and being in tight closed space with you, being drowned in your scent accidentally sends Isaac into a rut. (8,000 words est.)

Untitled - Sequel to Blood In The Water - Void!Stiles Stilinski x Fem!Reader. Extreme Angst, Horror, Gore. Set during Season 3. You are rudely awoken in the hospital after narrowly surviving a stabbing that Void intended to kill you. But he ensures you that now, he has a greater, grander purpose for you. (10,000 words est.) 

Harry Potter

Untitled aka 'The One Where Fred is Obsessed With Your Ass' (aka Punishment Anal with Fred) - Fred Weasley x Fem!Ravenclaw!Reader. Annoyances/Enemies to 'Lovers'. Smut/PWP. Hogwarts Era. One day in class, Fred chases his impulsive mischief and boldly grabs your ass - in response, you smack him with a paper that you're holding. Naturally, McGonagall doesn't see what he did, and only sees your retaliation. Being forced to apologise to the prankster makes you determined to get him caught in the act, which gets you caught in a loop of wearing short skirts in front of him and bending over around him and eventually, screaming and yelling at him when he grabs your ass and smacks it and nobody else ever catches him doing it. And the whole cat and mouse game comes to a head when you get caught in the Gryffindor common room late one night and he catches you alone, finally tired of your teasing and ready to show you a darker side of his mischievous personality. (8,000 words est.)

Untitled aka 'The One Where George Handcuffs Himself To You As A Prank' - George Weasley x Fem!Reader. Annoyances/'Enemies' to Lovers. Smut with Plot. Set Post War. What it says on the tin - George is fed up with the fact that you don't seem to like him very much, and he is determined to get you to like him. One day he finds a pair of handcuffs on Harry's desk and (not knowing that they are enchanted to keep criminals from escaping with basic spells) he takes them and conveniently forgets to take the key, and handcuffs himself to you so that you will be forced to like him by spending time with him. After you demand to be let go, and several failed attempts to escape the cuffs with basic magic that grow increasingly dangerous (and with Harry out of the country on a topic secret mission and a Ministry curse breaker delayed with other business) you two are stuck together for a full day, and oddly enough, George's theory is right. It helps that you are pulled close by his body weight while he sleeps and accidentally sit on his boner, forcing you to face the fact that annoyance and lust are two very similar emotions. (10,000 words est.)

The Maze Runner

(Note: most of the fics I have for this fandom are already finished and just need to be edited, but I would love to write new stuff for this fandom if it's chosen.)

Some Kind Of Disaster - Gally (TMR) x Fem!Reader. Best Friends to Lovers/Lovers Reunited. Emotional Angst, Hurt and Comfort, Smut. Set during The Death Cure. You had every reason to believe Gally was dead, so when a mysterious stranger pulls off his mask and reveals himself to be the one person you had been missing so badly - you are shocked. And then you show him just how badly you had been missing him. (6,800 words est.) - PREVIEW HERE

English Blood // American Heartache - Gally (TMR) x Fem!Reader x Newt (TMR). Established Monogamous Relationship to Polyamory. (Very slight) Emotional Angst and Smut. Set post Death Cure/Safe Haven Era. Newt Lives AU. (Sequel to the above fic.) When you get to the Safe Haven, you believe that you have everything you ever wanted, everything you ever needed. So why do you have a nagging feeling that something is missing? Turns out, that 'missing’ thing was the addition of your best friend Newt to your bed, which your boyfriend Gally is more than happy to provide. (20,300 words est.)

Random/Misc. Characters/One Off Movies (And Shows)

(On my Masterlist, this is listed as "Horror Characters", but I do want to write for more than just characters from Horror Movies, and I have a Grey's Anatomy WIP and I don't know where else to put it)

Heartbeat - Eggsy Unwin x Fem!Thick!Reader. Childhood Friends to Lovers. Smut/PWP. Set between the two films. You know it's so incredibly cliche - falling for your childhood best friend. But he grew up to be too fit, and the whole 'friends with benefits' thing didn't benefit you when you started falling in love with him. Too bad for you, he broke your heart when he rudely snubbed you and then disappeared for months, only to show up out of the blue wearing an expensive bespoke suit and talking about - loving you back? (10,000 words est.)

In Too Deep - Nick Jones (House of Wax) x Fem!Reader. Exes to Lovers. Smut, Emotional Angst, and Horror/Gore. Hurt No Comfort. When you are invited on a trip to see a football game out of state, you end up thinking it's a big mistake when your ex is also on the trip, and he spends the entire car ride glaring at you. It seems like an even worse idea when you're stuck sharing a tent with him. But after some feelings and a cigarette are shared, you find out - the trip wasn't such a bad idea after all. (10,000 words est.)

Untitled aka ‘The One That Came To Me In A Dream’ - Alex Karev x Surgical Intern Fem!Reader. Strangers to Friends With Benefits to Lovers. Smut, Emotional Angst. Set during Season 3. Partway through the MAGIC intern year, you are ‘transferred’ to Seattle Grace from another hospital in another state, and nobody seems to know anything about your background. Because Bailey is your resident, her other interns are incredibly curious about where you’re from and why you’re transferring so suddenly - Alex is the only one who doesn’t seem to care, especially when the two of you start having mindless crazy animal sex with absolutely no strings attached. However, he starts to care very much when Cristina discovers a bomb in the hospital in the patient room where all of you hang out, and somehow - you know how to defuse it. (10,000 words est, or more. Will likely be a multi-part arc.) 

[thisweekinfandomhistory]

POW! This week, V and Emily venture to the DC side of comics fandom as they learn about "A Death in the Family" and the poll to kill off, or save, Batman's Robin at the time, Jason Todd. From the involvement of grandmothers trying to soothe weeping children who loved Robin to utterly bananas racism in the comic itself, "A Death in the Family" changed the course of Batman comics for decades and still affects stories today as Jason Todd has had a resurgence of popularity as the Red Hood (voiced, because of course he is, by one Jensen Ackles). This episode goes out to TWIFH supporter Jess, who schooled V in all things Jason Todd! Do you Batman fandom? Would you have voted to kill or save Robin?

This Week In Fandom History is a fandom-centric podcast that tells you… what happened this week in fandom history!

[batfsm]

Jason Todd lives on in an alternate version of Batman history coming soon from DC

The alternate ending of 1988 storyline A Death in The Family is going to be released this December

News by Graeme McMillan Staff Writer

Published on Oct. 14, 2023

As dramatic as it seemed at the time, the death of Jason Todd didn’t turn out to be a permanent thing, as all true Batman fans know — but what if it hadn’t been a thing at all? This December, DC is going to revise a piece of comics history with a new edition of 1988’s Batman #428 that features an important difference from the original: an alternate ending in which Jason Todd lives.

The original death of DC’s second Robin was the result of a phone poll, in which fans were given a 900 number to decide whether or not Jason Todd would die in an explosion caused by the Joker. The result was incredibly narrow, with 5,343 votes to kill him, versus 5,271 votes to keep him alive — a 72 vote difference that was, according to fandom rumors at the time, the result of a repeated effort by one particular fan who didn’t want Robin to stick around anymore.

Because of the nature of the poll, creators Jim Starlin, Jim Aparo, Mike DeCarlo, Adrienne Roy, and John Constanza created two separate editions of Batman #428 — one in which Robin lived, and one where he died. (In reality, only a handful of pages were different… but they were important pages.) In what is being called a “faux-simile” of the original #428, the December release will feature the unseen alternate version of the story in print fully for the first time.

While the end result in this alternate version of Batman history would be the same — the main timeline Jason Todd returned to life in 2005’s “Under the Hood” storyline, after all — it’s fascinating to imagine what might have been difference had Jason never died in the first place, and remained Robin for a longer period. Would Tim Drake have ever been created, for one thing…?

The announcement of the new edition came from the Gotham City Confidential panel at New York Comic Con 2023. The faux-simile edition of Batman #428 will be released December 12.

I just might have to get this....

(It was just one fan who helped kill him off? Weird. Well according to rumors...)

Another version:

[vraska-theunseen]

always thinking about "you want me to vote in a fandom poll, the thing that killed jason todd?"

[pinksdoodles1]

ok i know my knowledge of batman comics is, like, very limited. but apparently the readers once voted to kill a character? like what?? y’all just killed a robin like that???? that’s too much power. fucking wild

[halogalopaghost]

In the name of the bat, I will punch you!

[gilbirda]

Also, anon, if you really want to go there and be snippy about canon, you are just plain wrong.

There is a canon "pit madness" comment, even for those that are dipped once:

And Jason has ALWAYS had a code about keeping the innocent out of the battle. Always. Deciding to take a more permanent route to stop criminals never made him care less.

And he chose his targets well:

Talia not influencing Jason's decisions?

Talia "struggling to keep him in line"?

Jason came to his own conclusions. He chose to not kill Bruce, claiming it was "too easy", and lied to himself that he was going to beat him at his own game --- but for Jason it was not about killing Bruce. It was about making a difference, about understanding that to be the hero vulnerable people needed, he had to be the bad guy.

And Jason did care about Tim. Is another child getting himself killed, at least it feels like that for him.

He cares about children and his condition was literally "do not sell to kids."

Jason Todd, sadly, has been the target of a lot of hatred from DC writers. He was, at his conception, a Good Boy (tm) but he was not Dick Grayson, and he had to go.

People wanted him dead. The writers wanted him dead. They did the poll thing, and "kill him" won the poll, but the truth is that they had prepared an ending where "he lives" but he dies a few issues later anyway.

He wasn't supposed to live after Under the Red Hood either. It was a one time thing, an experiment, the whole "sins from the past" storyline. But people liked this grey area character and wanted to see more from him, to see more of this man that was fucked over by life and was given a second chance to do what he didn't dare do before.

And DC writers kept hating him, not really knowing how to write their own characters. We've had a Bruce that learns how to shoot a gun, Barbara having a sexual relationship with all the batboys (and having her age retconned every now and then), Dick's erratic romances that don't make sense (and Ric Grayson). How can we give them the benefit of the doubt about what's "canon" with Jason?

It doesn't make sense to pick the asshole iterations and decide that's the real Jason and mock the fandom that tries to make sense of a character that people getting paid big money don't have any idea how to write.

DC stands for Disregard Canon.

So.

Do you even read comics or just watch (biased) youtube analysis?

hi so this isn't meant to be mean at all! but um, pit madness isn't...a thing. like, at all. the only cases that can be made for it is characters like ra's, who had prolonged exposure to it, but characters that have been dipped just once (jason, cass, damian, etc) aren't mentally affected by the pit in canon at all. at least during post-crisis, jason didn't Have a rule about not hurting kids—that was not his version of bruce's no-kill rule, it wasn't a hard rule of any sorts. he was an asshole. that was his whole character after he came back during post-crisis, until the n52 reinvented him (and the n52 decanonized all he did after he came back. so it didn't change what he did and why he did it, and since we're now in a hellscape where everything is canon, his motivations (is an asshole that chose to take out his daddy issues on a kid) are still the same they were back then, nothing changed.) he also mocked, kidnapped and blew up the school of a teenage csa survivor BECAUSE he was an asshole, so if he had any sort of "rule", it was one he made many exceptions for.

also, ra's had no interest in tim until red robin, he didn't gaf about tim back then past him being another one of bruce's robins. talia didn't influence jason's decisions; she was struggling to keep that guy in line during lost days.

this isn't saying you can't like jason—hell, i love him. but he did all that shit because he wanted to. he chose to do it, and sure he wouldn't have made them if he hadn't died and come back angry and hurt and struggling, but he did. and pit madness or saying talia made him/manipulated him to do it (which i think plays into the racist stereotype surrounding talia, but i digress) feels like absolving him of all wrongdoing for his own actions.

once again, saying all this in good faith, but it gets sort of annoying watching people make it seem lile jason didn't CHOOSE to be an asshole. for a while, he was just an asshole.

Fam. I get you're saying that you came here with good intentions, but all I'm seeing is you jumping in my inbox to "um, actually" me, which is, quite frankly, rude and unappreciated. No one likes to get "um, actually"ed. Especially over personal interpretations of things.

What all this really tells me is that you put on some selective reading glasses and chose to take offense to my tags in particular on a post that *checks notes* was initially about Tim having no obligation to forgive and forget Jason being an asshole to him. Which, fair. Point to that. But then the addition to the post was about *checks notes again* how the writing for Jason's comeback was all over the place, skewed, and completely dissonant with how his character was before. But the add on also offered some nice perspective on why people liked to use pit madness as a plot device (which, frankly, there has been other instances outside of Ra's displaying it. i.e. the first person dunked in the pits literally came out made and killed Ra's wife. It's just DC can never expand on the little bits of lore they drop surrounding this without either completely forgetting it or retconning it.)

But back to the point. Which was that people like the concept that pit madness brings to the table. They like using it as a means of explaining the shitty writing of "canon". Do some people over do it and use it to absolve him of all his sins without consequences? Yeah, and it's not great, but it's whatever. And I never said that I want it to absolve him of being an asshole. I said I liked it being A factor to skew his thoughts. The can also apply to other concepts that I toyed with in my tags.

Can Jason still be an ass just to be an ass? Yeah. He can. But I'm not here to explore canon's desperate fixation on toxic grimdark bullshit. And you can't say in one breath that something is canon, but then in the next say that canon is a hellscape where nothing makes sense. That's contradictory. You get how that's contradictory, right? Canon doesn't even know what's canon, plan and simple, that's why so many people disregard it in the first place!

I could go out and pull up receipts to counter a bunch of other things, but frankly, I don't need to keep justifying how and why I play around with ideas and concepts. So please, next time you feel the need to come into someone's inbox to "correct" them. Don't. You just make an ass of yourself.

[gothellewoods]

🔥 jason todd

Ok im gonna talk about how jason todd stans here for a bit because i feel like i have a lot to say about how the character is percieved in fandom spaces. Jason wasn't some happy go lucky kid. I think the fandom treats him like he's just a "little lad who likes berries and cream". And that's probably people going too hard in the opposite direction to counter the idea of him being the "violent" robin (which I don't think he is. None of them are. There's a violence inherent to being a robin, being a vigilante, and arguing over which one was the "sweet" one and which one was the "angry" or "viscious" one is pointless), but I find the woobification harms the character. It's just another example of fanon erasing nuance.

The other thing that gets me is the way people handle Jason's willingness to kill as the red hood? As if it's something positive. As if sometimes people need to be killed. I think that's just a part of like, copaganda invading our psyches. The idea that a "good" person will enforce what's right and punish the bad people by any means necessary. I'm not even talking about the people that view red hood as dc's punisher, I'm talking about fandom takes who say jason was justified in killing xyz, because that person was especially awful. I think, sometimes there's a feeling of vindication in seeing revenge against someone cruel and unapologetically evil, but I also think that like. Stories are statements about the world.

Characters, especially superheroes, are not real people but allegories and stand-ins for larger groups or modes of thinking. Imo the bats are different from cops because they don't kill people, they don't have a license to be judge, jury, and executioner. They are trying to change the entire system, save every lost cause. Jason stands outside that. It's a good character choice! He's like that for a reason, and i do enjoy his early red hood stories. My point of contention here is I don't think that's a good or justified thing, and I'm a little off put by the people who act like he's "right" to kill, or that batman should have killed the joker for him.

One more point. I see a lot of people coming up with elaborate theories about how like, jason was killed because he was poor and homeless which made him unlikable and unrelatable to the middle class kids reading comics, and that he was killed with the plan to introduce a new robin (tim) that they'd find more relatable and I think that's all bullshit. I think things just lined up unfortunately. Like, jason as robin is not very consistently characterized, and a lot of his robin run isn't particularly special? We don't get much Jason's day to day life, his friends. Things that make him feel like a person? So then when there's a poll to kill him (that may or may not have been tampered with, as someone supposedly made essentially a bot to call in a bunch of times to kill jason) and people probably just weren't passionate enough about keeping robin alive at the time. When eventually the sales started to go down and they panicked. They need a new character that kids could connect themselves to. So, we get tim.

Tim has a very fleshed out personal life independent of batman. Tim was purposely built to be relatable to the audience reading these comics. He's an instant hit because his early run establishes him as a unique character his target audience could easily empatize with, not because of some long standing plan. And there is a statement to be made about the broader treatment of certain characters, but I dont think Jason's death is the prime example or some kind of conspiracy

[hellsite-hungergames]

Submitting Jason Todd from the Batman Comics solely because of the 'you want me to vote in a fandom poll, the thing that killed Jason Todd' tweet. No matter if he lives or dies we comic fans win.

As a comic fan, y e s

[ylfva-remade]

i think now is a great time to post the “you want me to vote in a fandom poll. the thing that killed jason todd.” tweet

[buttercupsbitch]

issue #427

This is a formal essay about jason todd as a character written for the mgi civil war event :)

(cw: a little gory?? its dc and specifically jason soo.. be careful)

Jason Todd is a fictional character set in the universe of DC Comics. He is one of the iterations of Robin and a crime boss of Gotham. Considered an anti-hero, Jason is known for taking matters into his own hands. His attitude and confirmed kill count of 83 make him fairly popular within today’s DC fandom and crossovers.

To understand Jason, you have to know his past. Jason is widely considered one of the most traumatized and mistreated characters of DC by most of the fanbase. Jason’s first appearance in the Batman comics is when he is caught by Batman while attempting to steal the tires from the Batmobile in order to pawn them for money, something he had done to several other cars before. However, the Dark Knight catches him and decides to take him to his “good friend” Bruce Wayne who adopts the boy, after learning how his parents were dead. Comics are notorious for not keeping up with continuity, leaving some debate for how old he is when he is taken in, but he is most likely somewhere around 12 years old. Before meeting Jason, Batman (Bruce Wayne) had another sidekick, Dick Grayson, the original Robin. He was an acrobat that Bruce took in after he witnessed the murder of Dick’s parents at the circus (Dick also witnessed this) and decided to prevent him from heading down the same path that Bruce had walked many years before. Around the time that Bruce meets Jason, Dick is fighting with Bruce, leading to him moving out and taking a new mantle, Nightwing, in the city Bludhaven.

In early Batman comics, Bruce is seen being unnecessarily cruel to Dick, going as far to be physically abusive towards the boy. When Jason moves in, he does not receive the same parenting from Bruce, leading to a lot of animosity between the wouldbe brothers. That leaves Jason in a new environment with no allies and nothing but his street training. He is sent to Gotham Academy, a private school filled with the children of the wealthy and upper class population of Gotham. Most of the city heard of the ward from Crime Alley that was adopted by Bruce Wayne, leading to a lot of bullying for the boy. Jason goes on to take the mantle of Robin and becomes the second sidekick to Batman.

The relationship between Bruce and Jason is complicated. Jason is the first son Bruce adopted and was the only one he adopted for a while. Throughout multiple comics and continuities, something happening to Jason, in which he dies, hates Bruce, or gets hurt, is Bruce’s greatest fear. Bruce has done things for Jason that he never did for the rest of his children, one being that he ignored the bat signal because getting Jason back after he was taken from him by the court was more important. Another time, he missed a patrol to spend time with Jason because he was sick. Bruce used to carry a photo of Jason around in his Batman utility belt. Jason’s most precious memory was of the skipped patrol when he was sick and they watched a movie together, though he did give it up during a mission with the Outlaws, a team of morally gray heroes. The two truly care about each other, but after his death, there is a lot of animosity. Both have admitted to pulling punches and throwing fights in an effort not to hurt the other.

DC Comics wanted to do something different with the newest boy wonder, leading them to allow fans to choose the fate of one Jason Todd. They asked the fans to vote whether the boy lived or died. At the end of Batman #427, Jason was left to die in a building. The inside back cover of the issue listed two 1–900 numbers that readers could call to vote for the character's death or survival. Within the 36-hour period allotted for voting, the poll received 10,614 votes. The end results were very close, with a difference of 72 votes, 5,343 votes for him to die to the 5,271 for him to live. The next issue, Batman #428, was published featuring the death of the second Robin. Later on, one writer said it was possible that hundreds of votes in the "Jason Dies" line came from a single person, leading to the realization that they could not use such a poll to quantify a character’s popularity. Among the community, there are rumors that a single person programmed their phone to repeatedly dial the line for Jason’s death over the course of eight hours.

The actual circumstances around his death are even more brutal. Jason Todd was born to Willis Todd and Dr. Sheila Haywood, although Sheila relinquished custody when Willis married Catherine Todd. Catherine was a drug addict and died from an overdose, and Willis, who had once worked for Two-Face, was sent to jail and eventually murdered by the criminal. Jason was not aware that Catherine was not his birth mother and, when he finds out, decides to find her, leading him to Ethiopia. Unbeknownst to him, the Joker, a main rival of Batman, had discovered the identity of Robin, and also found his birth mother, convincing her to work with him. The Joker goes on to viciously beat the fifteen year old Jason with a crowbar and leave him to die in a building rigged with explosives. Joker actually held Jason for a few days, beating him and torturing him mentally by telling him that Batman was not coming for him. Batman does arrive, but only in time to see the building explode. He does retrieve Jason’s body and his end is viewed as the biggest failure, by Bruce himself. Alfred, Bruce’s butler and father figure, says himself that he believes that Jason’s death hurt him more than his own parents’ because he had the ability to stop it. Jason’s last words and thoughts were of Bruce, a thank you and an apology. This isn’t even where Jason’s story ends.

Six months after his death (due to some weird dimension shenanigans involving Superboy) Jason awakes in his coffin, with no memories, and begins screaming for Bruce. He eventually digs himself out with his bare hands, and then collapses outside of the cemetery due to the injuries he received before his death not being healed. For a year, he is in a coma, and wakes with amnesia. He is recognized by a random criminal, who informs Talia Al-Ghul, a previous fling of Bruce Wayne’s, who takes him to the Lazarus Pit, which heals his injuries and returns his memories, while also fracturing his mind and leaving him with Pit Madness. After learning that Bruce allowed the Joker to go free after killing him, Jason decides to avenge himself and begins training with the All-Caste. The group does train him, but they do not support his plan for revenge so he returns to the League of Assassins, before deciding they are boring him, so he heads back to Gotham. Jason makes his return by hijacking a shipment of kryptonium from Black Mask, announcing himself as Red Hood, an old moniker of the Joker’s.

Jason discovers that there is a new Robin, Timothy Drake, and, through Pit Madness and grief, decides to kill him. Jason doesn’t just meet him in the streets. Jason makes a Robin costume, breaks into Titans Tower, and goes berserk on Tim, while venting to him about his feelings. He tells Tim how he resents that he had parents, he tells him how he’s supposed to be the replacement, he’s supposed to be the better Robin, yet Jason is beating him. He knocks Tim out and punches him again after he is on the ground, writing ‘Jason Todd was Here,’ on the walls in what appears to be Tim’s own blood. Jason obviously has a lot of motives in this action, but one is his disdain towards Bruce allowing another child to become Robin. Red Hood goes on to oppose the Bat family and become a crime boss, notorious for not putting up with any misbehavior towards children.

This, and plenty of more complex story lines that would take an eternity to go through, not counting other continuities (like the one where the Joker literally causes Catherine to overdose and sends Willis to jail, just on the off chance Jason could become Robin so Joker could kill him to hurt Batman) are what makes Jason a complex character. He has the means and motives to become one of the worst villains Batman has ever faced, and yet he decides to clean up Gotham, his way. Jason Todd came back from the dead to find that not only had his adoptive father not avenged his death, but he had also given another child the same role that had gotten him killed. Jason holds a lot of resentment towards the entire Batfamily, though for different reasons.

Jason has a very strong sense of justice that is tainted by both his time on the streets and his own death. He thinks that the only way for victims to really get justice is for him to step in. As a street kid, Jason witnessed firsthand how corrupt the police of Gotham City really were, leaving him to have no faith in any portion of the justice system, but at least he still had Batman. His mentor and adoptive father was out on the town, making things right. Yet, when it mattered the most to Jason, Bruce did not avenge him. At one point, Jason is put into Arkham Asylum, believing him to be insane, but the asylum realizes that Jason is, technically, fine, just deciding to clean up the streets in his own way, so they send him to a prison, from which he escapes. To put the cherry on the sundae, after Tim is captured and believed to be killed, Dick Grayson, as Nightwing, goes after Joker, beating him to death. Not only does Bruce try to stop him, he brings the Joker back to life. Jason has every right to want the clown dead, and yet Bruce keeps foiling his plans, despite the pain Joker has caused, not just to him and Jason, but also other members of the Batfamily. Commissioner Gordon’s own daughter, Babs, is paralyzed due to a gunshot wound from the Joker.

After his death, Jason assumes that the reason Bruce got a new Robin and never killed the Joker is that he didn’t love him, while Bruce tells Clayface that Jason knew exactly how much he loved him. The two are really just traumatized and emotionally constipated. In every Batman continuity, Bruce loses Jason because it has become such an important part of the character. Annie is an orphan, Joker is insane, Bruce loses his son. A single person, should rumors be believed, has deeply affected a character so much that every version of that character goes through the same thing, or it just isn’t the same.

Jason Todd is a unique character in many ways, from his death to his life afterwards, the character has made a mark in comics. The complexity of Jason adds to appeal for many newer readers as he is not a perfect hero as some, such as Superman, can seem. He is hurt, he is traumatized, and he is healing, making many young people relate to him more than his siblings. Jason Todd is an outstanding character who has an iconic story both on and off the page.