#Zonai looking things like the hero and I like their theory that they were depths dwellers.

[red-gekkouga]

The Ancient Hero is either another species of Zonai, or maybe part Hylian/Gerudo. I'm leaning towards Gerudo because of the hair. I NEED ANSWERS!!! Was he a Link? Was he NAMED Link? Was he a completely different person without the spirit of the hero????

[curseofpower]

Finally I'm doing it. It's been over 3 months since I nearly 100% ToTK and studied every landscape on my stupid hoverbike. But here it finally is.

My big ass ToTK post.

After I completed the game, my mind was going wild with theories and possibilities about what happened to Ganondorf.

I could not and still do not believe he was 'born evil'. I think something happened to him, and it happened right around the same time Zelda showed up so we never got to see who he really was. Not entirely, anyway. I believe the evil Rauru sensed was the ancient evil spoken of in the shrines (because why else would he be so familiar with the feeling of it?) and what do we know about the ancient evil? It existed before Ganondorf. Possibly long before, because there were old looking shrines connected to lightroots in cutscenes from the ancient past before Ganondorf became the evil's source.

I believe the ancient evil is something that came from the depths. It was unleashed by the ancient Zonai due to their excessive mining. I believe they created the lightroots and shrines above to try to control it, but when they couldn't, they simply left.

Because they knew the world was doomed.

As for why the evil would have ended up with Ganondorf and not some other powerful leader? Well, before the Zonai disappeared, they must have closed up all the holes they'd used to get to the depths in an attempt to bury the problem before leaving.

All except one.

The one in the Gerudo desert which is in an area that had once clearly been inhabited, before we knew there would even be depths in the world (botw). The damn thing even is a massive plot point in both games due to the Yiga clan. It's not subtle. It's there.

So here's where the evidence ends (mostly) and the story formed in my mind. I'll be posting snippets from something me and my partner co-wrote based on my idea.

While my original plan had Ganondorf fighting the demon alone and losing (becoming possessed) only to come back home alive and be hailed a hero for his apparent 'victory', our story has Link going into the past to make sure that failure doesn't happen, and he has the souped up master sword to do it with.

---

The lightroots began to go out with no one to care for them. The ancient evil, no longer contained, started to seep forth. This thing I call a demon, was too weak to break forth immediately due to being indisposed for so long, so it began to attack the closest civilization to it.

This started with a plague.

The demon was angry. It's entire being is hatred and greed personified. It wanted to lash out just as much as it wanted a host in a position of power so that it may more easily inflict eternal suffering on the world above. Ganondorf and the Gerudo were prime targets in all regards, as back then, they were very well off and well established.

So here's where Link arrives at the kingdom. Still Ganon's pov.

As you can see, I didn't go with the popular idea that Ganondorf's Second and Third are Koume and Kotake. I made a couple OCs instead out of those two in the cutscene. Sorry. Neither are Nabooru either because uh this isn't OoT as much as it wishes it was. lol

Anyway, Link's POV, written by my partner.

Ganon's POV

That's all for now.

This is a slow burn ganlink story alongside... everything else it is. I took massive liberties with Gerudo culture based on what I know from other games later on in the story, and also played much more on the fact Ganondorf is a sorcerer than the game did. I took away what I could, however, making him adept at creating illusions mostly.

Also I'd like to say the way Link gets to the past is much different than what happened to Zelda. It's a doozy, but since my cowriter came up with it I'll let them decide when I can reveal that.

But anyways this post has gone on long enough. Let me know what you guys think, if you want!

[livixbobbiex]

My Theory for Tears of The Kingdom's timeline placement

This post does contain some spoilers. I will not be discussing the ending of the game or major story twists with the exception of one late game spoiler (which I will clearly mark). Other than that I will reference some details you get in the memories and the stone tablets. The TLDR version is that the ancient past in Tears of The Kingdom occurs after Skyward Sword, but before Minish Cap. My specific evidence for this:

The stone tablets and Mineru herself reference doing research into methods to help the hero and describe raising the islands into the sky. If it's not too long after Skyward Sword's history, this kind of action makes perfect sense. The idea of Skyloft would have been well documented.

We hear Fi's theme playing in some Master Sword cutscenes and the sword 'talking'.

Skyward Sword Zelda never actually founded Hyrule as a Kingdom, unless I'm misremembering. I believe she just wanted to protect the triforce. This leaves room for Hyrule to be founded later.

If Sonia is herself a Hylia descendant, it actually makes perfect sense that she would have initially been a priestess in this scenario, if the main role involves protecting the sacred realm. It also makes sense that her name isn't Zelda as that convention wasn't really a thing yet.

Rauru and Mineru are explicitly the only Zonai left. Now, Hylia raised the hylians into the sky. The Zonai appear to worship other gods. Plus with their technology they could have independently gone to the sky as a race. We don't really get enough of Rauru's backstory to go much further.

I also believe the Zonai could have been present on the surface before Skyward Sword happened as it would perhaps explain the Lanayru time stuff. I mean… a bunch of robots mining a special type of ore eventually left abandoned?

Koloktos also makes a LOT of sense in this theory. In fact the entire ancient cistern weirdly gels perfect with Zonai motifs (lotus especially)

The actual rock in the Breach of Demise area of the map looks suspiciously like the stone texture found around the depths.

Hyrule castle is not yet built. So Rauru being the 'first king' could be a situation like how people consider William I the first king of England, even though there were many, many before that. Essentially, the kingdom is re-established.

Now. The Ganondorf of it all calls this into question. My explanation for this is that, even according to Breath of the Wild's lore, calamity ganon arose after being reincarnated and then defeated on multiple occasions until eventually assuming the malice form. This, to me, makes it possible that the Ganondorf we see in Tears of the Kingdom is NOT the same man we see in Ocarina of Time, in the same way not all Zeldas and Links are the same character. The precedent for this also exists in Four Swords Adventure which features a different Ganondorf. If Tears of the Kingdom past takes place before Ocarina, it also explains the lack of triforce. At that point, nobody really knew about it because it was sealed and hidden in the sacred realm. We don't see it in the cutscenes because Zelda is drawing from a different power source, whereas in the Zelda's Awakening cutscene in Breath of the Wild, it's explicitly the triforce we see on the back of her hand. I still believe Breath of the Wild takes place in the Downfall timeline as it makes the most sense to me from the standpoint of beast form ganon. However, Tears of the Kingdom actually provides a perfect way to re-combine the timelines and finally explain the lore inconsistency. MAJOR TEARS OF THE KINGDOM SPOILER WARNING FROM HERE If the ancient past is before the timeline split, but Zelda originates from only one of the three branches, this creates a paradox. In that, she would also be existing as an immortal dragon in the other two branches where the events leading to her birth never took place. This would create some sort of rift forcefully combining all the timelines. Therefore, the presence of all timeline references in BOTW makes sense. It would be like Hyrule's own version of the mandela effect. Yes, I know it isn't perfect, but to me this is the closest we might come to a sensical explanation.

[alelelesimz]

here's a long and non exhaustive list of things i want to see in a totk dlc (big spoilers btw)

i want to learn more about the zonai. people in hyrule spend the entire game trying to learn more about them and in the end when purah sees the temple of time and says "just when i thought i started to figure out the zonai!" there's still sooooooooooo much we don't know about them that i wish we could learn somehow.

ganondorf and the gerudo. in the story we learn that he is the king of the gerudo, he's evil, he wants power and loves darkness. that's all. i want to learn more about who he is in this story, his motives, his relationship with the gerudo, etc. are ALL the gerudo of that time with him? are they all evil? do they leave him once he becomes the demon king? when he gets the secret stone we don't see the gerudo warriors anymore, what happened with them?

KASS. WHERE IS HIM???????????? IS HE OKAY? ARE WE GONNA SEE HIM AGAIN? MY BOY MY DARLING PLEASE COME BACK. i truly can't believe nintendo would leave out such a beloved character without an explanation. even his family is still there. i would've preferred him having a minor role than completely disappearing :(

the connection between ganondorf and calamity ganon. are they related at all? [tangent warning] my guess is that ganondorf/demon king happened first, from there god knows when ganondorf's evil leaked in the form of malice (in botw it's said that he came from the depths of hyrule castle so that checks out) then creating calamity ganon (the one 10000 years prior to botw), which is evil in its purest form, from there he gets sealed away and 10000 years later he comes back and the great calamity happens which destroys hyrule castle and that's what weakens rauru's power therefore gloom spreading more and more and making people sick, and then totk happens. [tangent end]

who's the ancient hero??? okay hear me out here's another tangent: the ancient hero set is a reward after a huge task, so it definitely cannot be only a fan service, right? it is the look of the hero that defeated calamity ganon 10000 years ago. he's obviously not a hylian, at first i thought he might've been a zonai but he doesn't quite look like one? granted, the only zonai we've seen are rauru and mineru, maybe the others looked different, BUT if he's a zonai then calamity ganon must've happened BEFORE ganondorf??? bc by the time ganondorf appears the zonai are pretty much extinct so my theory above would be wrong. BUT if he's not a zonai THEN WHAT IS HE WHO IS HE I WANT TO KNOW! ofc 10000 years is an insane amount of years, that's longer than the entire documented history of humanity, so maybe he's a completely different race that disappeared long ago and hasn't been mentioned yet. if that's the case i wanna know about that too.

naydra, farosh and dinraal. i actually don't think this one's gonna happen lol, but i'd love to know more about them. we know that they represent the triforce and in totk we learn about dragonification. i've seen theories of them being zonai sages who swallowed their secret stones long ago. it would be so much fun to learn if that's the case and why they did that.

what happened to the sheikah technology that was so prevalent in botw? it would make sense that all the guardians in botw just died after ganon is gone. their parts were used for the skyview towers and i saw someone making the argument that they do explode when they die, so that would explain how they were completely erased from the world, although it still baffles me how despite most of the world is still in ruins, there's absolutely no trace of the decayed guardians ANYWHERE not even in the most remote parts of the world. what happened with the towers? they raised from the ground, we see the one in the gerudo canyon came all the way from a chasm which we can now explore. i wish we had more of an explanation of what happened to them.. and as for the divine beasts, it is implied that they've stopped working in the end of botw, but these machines were huge, where are they now? did they bury them again? so many questions that are probably never gonna be answered honestly :/

[science-lings]

What do you say to a giving a little more lore on the priestesses AU?

I WOULD LOVE TO

first of all, some things need to be adjusted for totk, and that means I have to share a different theory that I have that's kind of independent from the priestesses au.

The idea that the Zonai weren't the only race that disappeared. I think that probably at the same time as the Zonai there were a race that lived almost exclusively in the depths and were able to manipulate the darkness. (see Thypho ruins in botw) they could be what form the ancient hero took, (bc that magical fursuit does not look like any zonai we know, the tail, the ears, the hair, etc...)

That way there could still be a connection to the Twili, (also since Midna's and Zant's helmets are down there). It really bothered me that the Zonai suddenly came from the sky and looked like goat people and what little we knew about them was shattered. But if there were a race that cooperated with the Zonai in the depths, a mirrored world of the surface, blanketed in pitch darkness, that may have disappeared alongside them, and after thousands of years had been forgotten entirely, that makes sense to me.

The priestesses au is largely centered around creating a backstory for the three elemental dragons in botw, and so totk... made me have to make more changes for it to make sense. Originally the AU was supposed to happen a hundred years after the first calamity, like how botw happens a century after the second and final calamity. The plot was going to be that just like in the future, even with all the tech and the might of the champions and the princess and the hero, the calamity still wasn't quite sealed. It still had influence and a wanting to take the triforce from its chosen guardians.

But in totk the whole idea of the dragons was kind of explained (though I'm not sure if the dragons appeared in any past cutscenes or if Zelda was kind of 'the first'. I have a feeling due to the abundance of massive skeletal remains, the dragons aren't as immortal as they seem and there were more of them than just the four that we know about)

So, that just means that I now have a method of how the priestesses became the dragons. Perhaps after Ganondorf was sealed, more secret stones were discovered and given to those of extraordinary power, or perhaps they were just a last resort to keep the sacred springs and the goddesses that they represented safe. There was a reason calamity ganon tried to take over Naydra (Zelda) but wasn't able to fully control her. Her divinity was too much to turn her into a threat against Link. I have a feeling he would've tried to go after the other dragons but after the first one, knew it was a losing battle.

Or, they could be the reason draconification was banned in the first place and they turned before Hyrule was even a kingdom. Perhaps there used to be nine secret stones (Rauru/Zelda's- Light/Time, Sonia/Ganondorfs- Time/Gloom, Sages- Lightning, Fire, Wind, and Water, plus three more for the dragon trio) and the Zonai, who wanted to keep the secret stones within reach, banned the practice. After all, dragons don't really do much other than vibe and a secret stone is much more useful to have available.

Now, enough of that, it's kinda boring, let's get to the good shit, I want to talk about Ravio being the equilibrium between darkness and light, out of the rest of his siblings, he's the one who takes on the most 'twili' traits, he has the greatest grasp over darkness, which he uses to conceal his face, and his hair glows the brightest. And he's the one chosen to wield the sword that seals the darkness. I think it's important to note how the character of Link as the hero is always kind of a sponge of the magic and people around him, so Ravio is no different. He's the balance of the darkness and the light, and the magic prowess and the skill with a sword that it's important for the hero to have.

Every other character has a more clear delineation of skills, they have more extreme strengths and weaknesses but Ravio is made to be a little more adaptable, he is the duality that is needed to be the hero. He knows when to run and hide in the shadows, and he knows when to fight. He just has to learn that his nature of being a jack of all trades is a good thing rather than being disappointed that he can't seem to get good at one specific thing like all the people around him.

thanks for letting me go on a tangent, however, I am still open to more instigation lmao, my typing fingers aren't tired yet

[tourniqitty]

maaan idk, the more i keep staring at the statues in tears of the kingdom the less i think the race that the ancient hero is is even present, the only other statue that isn't one of the main races, i.e. the gerudo, the rito, the zora, and the goron, is the unknown one which looks more like a boar than anything (you could even argue that one is meant to depict the zonai), and there are no feline qualities shared between the ancient hero and the statues in the depths

and even if it is one of the known races, which one?? it looks nothing like a zonai (ignore the clothes and adornments that's literally just ancient hylian fashion) the closest species the ancient hero looks like is the gerudo and that's only cause of the long flowing crimson red hair and the big golden hoop earrings, but the gerudo are less animalistic and are more human-like just like the hylians, so the ancient hero can't be gerudo or hylian for that matter

going back to the statues briefly, in the typhlo ruins, and in every piece of ancient zonai architecture there are depictions of either dragons, owls, or boars, but nothing resembling a feline or even any of the other races

and i haven't addressed the most glaring thing about the ancient hero, his fuckiung tail!!!!! none of the other races has a tail like that, what is he!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

the one theory i have is that the ancient hero was a race that much like the zonai has died out, and that they were a species of depth dwellers, maybe they were called the Lomei just like the three labrynths are named after and in ancient times they assisted the zonai in navigating the depths, notice how zonai earrings, their lightposts and the miner's outfit look incredibly similar and how they even look like brightbloom seeds after being struck. the zonai may have been named after the ore that was discovered in the depths and the technology that arose from that discovery (or vice versa), but they weren't the first people down there

there's also that thing on his forehead, but i'm attributing that to be jewlery that's meant to represent the third eye of the zonai just how the zonaite helm has the same thing and even the shiekah's have an eye as their insignia

[aikoiya]

I was literally thinking the same thing!

I was thinking that, either the Far Frozen Yetis were a tribe of Yetis that found their way into the IR & began becoming more liminal over time. Or they could be the ghosts of the various Yetis from different universes & that some might even be from Hyrule.

Another thing I'm curious about is how Danny would react to the Bargainers. Hell, I'm curious how the entire Chain would react to the Depths.

Like, my theory is that it's actually what remains of old Hyrule from before BotW/TotK.

By that, I mean that the Deku Tree did what he said that he would in WW by using trees to reconnect the islands, which is what makes it possible for the Era of the Wild to be at the end of all 3 timelines, or indeed, be able to merge in the first place. This is supported by how there are so many massive roots all over the place. As well as the fact that the map inside the Forgotten Temple shows that there'd been more water in Central Hyrule during Rauru's time.

But, specifically, how would the rest of the Chain react to the sheer amount of Poe Souls, the Shadow Soldiers, whether they all can see the Poe Souls & Shadow Soldiers (because, remember, apparently not everyone can according to a Yiga journal & the only entities to really make mention of the Poe Souls are the Bargainers), the Bargainers, seeing the Heart Island with the green poe & the pink poe, & the Blupee Burrow?

Not to mention the implication that at least some of the Poe Souls belonged to people who died during the Calamity based on the Ancient Underground Fortress in Akkala. Also, how the triple stone mounds seem to correlate with monuments made by Flora on the surface meant to honor & remember soldiers who died fighting the Calamity. All being at what appeared to be places where great battles took place.

I think that the Depths are something of a liminal space where the dead of Hyrule just gather before moving on & that it has become a reflection of the Surface. "As above, so below" & all that. This is supported by, as mentioned before, the state of the Ancient Underground Fortress in Akkala & the fact that the triple stone mounds seem to be located at the sights of major battles in the Calamity.

This liminality could be partially attributed to having been saturated with magical water for millennia before the Zonai drained it.

Something to note is that we don't know how the Depths looked before the Zonai arrived, nor do we know how they looked during Rauru's reign.

Either way, I'd very much like to see someone go into this.

Hell, Danny may even be able to talk to the Poe Souls & the Shadow Soldiers. Or just hear their final wishes if nothing else.

My thoughts are that the Shadow Soldiers are sort of the echos of those who've already passed on. They manifested in an attempt to help the hero however they could & the reason that they disappear after Wild takes the weapon in their hands is because the last remaining remnants of those soldiers has been fulfilled. They are likely held together by their final most desperate wish, so they'd likely just sort of be whispering those wishes quietly under their breath from Danny's perspective.

Fudge... imagine Wild learning that one of those Shadow Soldiers was the shade of his father desperately trying to do whatever he can to help his son... Aaaangst...

And imagine the shame of still not remembering him or the sister he once had. (Based upon the concept art.)

Or, if he does end up getting his memories of them back & breaks down at the realization that he'd failed them. Obviously, it wasn't his fault, but let's be real here. Wild would absolutely take it that way. And imagine how much Wind would try to sympathize with him, but Wild might not appreciate it because Wind, at the very least, had been able to save his sister. Wild had failed his. (I know that it's implied that Wild's family had lived in the Hateno House.)

And imagine the shock & fragile hope of learning that last his father knew, his sister was still alive & that this meant Wild might have nieces & nephews.

And now suddenly he feels so very small & strangely desperate to have just one more connection to the life he once had. Because he might not have been the same man as he was & he may even be happier now, but that does not mean that his old life was bereft of joy & love.

Perhaps, he wants a little bit of that love back. Even if only in second-hand stories of the family he hadn't quite realized until this exact moment that he lost.

Just one more thing that the Calamity pilfered from his grasp.

Or perhaps she's still alive, just incredibly old & weak & unable to even get out of bed anymore.

Anyway, as far as the Bargainer Statues, Danny may be able to identify them as something I refer to as Psychopomp Effigies. Basically, statues of death deities that act as reapers/ferrymen & portals to the afterlife in the absence of an actual death god.

Sorry for dumping that on ya. I tend to ramble...

I don’t know the current status of Linked Universe, so if I need to delete this please tell me, but after seeing a drawing of Wild and Danny doing the whole “I think we need to kill this guy” thing, my mind went blank! But in a “How did I not think of this?” way!

Because imagine them finding him in the Lost Woods or something and thinking he died there! Or Danny feeling like he can breathe around these people because they fight several different kinds of monsters practically daily, so how weird can it be if their newest member is half ghost?! And Danny 100% takes a picture at some point! I know this might not be half as big as DC x DP, but still! I feel like this needs to be explored a bit!

And also, he’s definitely chill with Wolfie because for the Linked Universe fans who don’t know, Danny has befriended a ghost puppy (Cujo) who is capable of turning into a giant dog probably the size of a two or three story house, a large anthropomorphic ghost wolf who speaks Esperanto (named Wulf) big enough to hold Danny in one hand, and a ghost yeti also large enough to hold him in one hand (Frostbite), along with pretty much the entire village of ghost yetis. I think it’d be crazy if he was actually scared of Wolfie, especially if he sees him acting all friendly with the others first. If fact, he probably thinks he’s a husky or Alaskan malamute at first because of his white and black fur.

Also, like my old Link OC Modern, I bet that Danny can’t have potions or anything with magic because it doesn’t exist in his world or the ghost zone, so he never had the necessary biology or something to handle it and will most likely throw up any meals or potions with magic in them. This probably worries some of the group, but Danny doesn’t really care about his healing process possibly being slower without the potions and is more worried about consuming anything containing magic again.

I’m gonna stop before I ramble too much.