#While I see the ship as toxic I don't think its glorifying much of anything

[potpigu]

While I'm not the biggest fan of the ship

(The dynamic just isn't really it for me)

it's pretty stupid to fully hate on some random ship but guess thats what happens to popular ships that aren't the healthiest.

Anyway for longer ramble of my opinions..

Personally I think its rude to hate on a normal post of it since its just people enjoying the characters and how they see the dynamic so randomly hating on someone enjoying themselves is dumb, but I think its fine to complain when its more of a conversation on thoughts on shipping in general I think its fine to hate, since its shown to be open to all opinions plus your not going into someones post who's enjoying themselves just so you can say

"Ya thats toxic as fuck-"

Do I like to complain a little over the ship? Ya absolutely hell when I get the chance to I will complain over how while the ships cool there are some things that kinda annoys me.

Example being how I once said something like "Personally I always feel like Pv and Sm tend to be watered down a lot when shipped." [but it had a lot of over exaggerated anger that didn't actually exist ;)]

I said that in a video where it was just people complaining about any fandoms in general since like no one should get too hurt over it since its clear you'll enjoy yourself the most by complaining over small things like that ship

But like no way I'm complaining in a post were its clear that the person genuinely is just trying to enjoy the ship in peace.

Put it simply I think hating on this ship is best done in the right place, So when hating on ship art its like dumb.

But I'm curious to others more specific opinions of it all too, so feel free to if ya wanna of course...

Gotta be honest tho if people think that is toxic oh BOYYYYY have they been missing out on a lot of worser ships that are me question things at times.

then they like shadowfaerie

(ac alikuarso)

[gunchucks-wukong-archive]

Aight, no

You talk like you know me and my opinions precisely, when you definitely don't, so please avoid assuming that i, a neurodivergent person, "wouldn't understand anyway" why people would relate to "dark" characters and so on. Expecially since my own trauma response was much different and it relates to my opinion on the topic (guess who can't stand people glorifying abusers just because said abusers were also abused...guess), as such it is pretty shitty to assume that i am trauma-less and neurotypical just because my opinions are not reflected in yours. Though stalking my blog may leave you thinking otherwise, you know absolutely nothing about me. That said if you felt offended by my post i apologize, expecially if there were any triggers, though i wouldn't know over what, since i did nothing but share an opinion. Nonetheless, if that's the case, let me know.

May i ask what is "concerning" about my blog? I've never been told anything of the sort. I am curious. As well as eager to improve, if something's off.

Now to your reply.

• If you're one of said "level headed" Cinder stans you mentioned then you have no reason to feel called out. As i merely expressed that:

A) I don't think Cinder will be redeemed.

B) Ignoring my personal opinion, a Zuko/Catra like redemption in the specific is still completely out of the picture.

C) the fandom critique is clearly aiming at the people that act like Cinder can achieve either said unadeguate type of redemption and/or think Cinder is in any way capable of having healthy dynamics from what we've seen of her so far in the show.

• Many Cinder fans i personally encounter on Twitter and sometimes on Tumblr (directly or undirectly) fantasize about exactly what i said. When you're asking for a character with such actions on her shoulders to suddently give up her quest for power that was been a narrative point for 8 seasons straight, and color it with "maybe snowfall will be canon, i doubt, but maybe" "maybe emerald and cinder will become friends" and all the other comments people make, you're not asking for redemption in a "light" way, but you're asking for something way different and i'm sure i don't have to explain further. Maybe your mutuals see it differently, good for them, i got nothing against that, just a disagreement. But a good part of the cinder/snowfall fans i see do this stuff on the daily and it gets excused with "i know its toxic but its just a headcanon...", which is very funny and i'll talk about why in a minute.

• You seem to have missed the point of Adam even being mentioned. The point is not comparing the communites, which have a widely different demographic, but the hypocrisy. If you've scrolled through my blog then you should probably know that i bring him up as a comparison for fan reactions and not to justify some of his kinnies, those stay out of the discussion. Adam has done a number of fucked up things and had a sad past revealed at last, and so has Cinder. Adam is an abused abuser, and so is Cinder. And yet. Fandom couldn't threat them any more different. Cinder, despite the history of abuse on two orphaned kids, gets shipped no problems with the people she abuses (Winter, she "killed" her sister to torture her, literally what Adam did to Blake!), but if you say "Adam x Winter" two people that haven't even interacted canonically people start making literal call out posts. It literally happened. Where is the logic? Where? The point is not whether its right or wrong, the point is that people arbitrarely decide so based on convenience. And for the love of idk what, if someone tries to tell me that "Cinder's abuse on emerald was different from Adam's on blake, hence its totally okay for me to ship an abuser with an abuse victim" i will be mad because it once again proves that the fandom has no willingness to understand abusive people/dynamics while it has every reason to bend the interpretation to its advantage when needed. Hence why i believe double standards are at play in this sort of behaviour. Adam is just the most clear example to me. As for whether it's right or wrong to ship these things (Adam x Winter and Cinder x Winter), there's the whole proshipping debate at it in all its shades, so i'll avoid commenting on that since it's not the point of the post. But spoiler. I don't fall into that category. Hence my dislike for either of these ships. And i just think it's very 🧍"...." of people to be like "ugh gross fiction affects reality", then turn around and "i know its toxic but its just a headcanon..." this is literally the same thing. The same thing. So forgive my confusion if then some (few) of those same people complain about fanon or au adam ships like the forementioned adam x winter. like. they do the same thing and excuse it with the same words, as far as i am concerned those two kinds of people are the exact same.

• Trivial, but i'm gonna also observe that we all know, from past fandom dramas, that the community doesn't react well to headcanons not coming true, expecially when people get latched to both the character and their ships, thus producing double of the fabrications that will remain unmatched in canon. Cinder kins and Adam kins may not share the same demographic, but the RWBY community as a whole surely shares the same toxic braincell (including my own beloved sub-communities, yes, everyone is guilty). So no, i don't think "this is what distinguishes us from adam stans" is an argument to make because you don't really know. Unless the same happens to Cinder and the fan reactions will be objectively different.

• Lastly, do what you need to do. Do you want to predict Cinder's redemption? Do it. I genuinely can't see any of the arguments moved to justify an eventual change in actions on her part. I don't think she will, i don't think she wants it, and i think some people want it for the wrong reasons. And my opinion is not gonna change, unless the show does something about it. I've been in enough fandoms to know that people will tell themselves anything to justify their kins, and i believe this subset of the RWBY fandom is doing precisely that on many occasions. To which i conclude. Mine is an opinion, moved by personal discomfort. Calling it an "obsession" all while you stalk my blog and tell me about all the things you think i am just because i dared say something about Cinder fans (like yourself i'd assume) in a post that wasn't even put in her tag, is very, very, ironic. But! As a fan of things myself, i understand that posts like mine, with a very specific opinion, cause frustration. I understand that, and if you think my opinion is too wildly different from yours and causes anger/negative feelings to the point where you look up my blog just to find ammo (i haven't done the same with you) then there is no reason why you shouldn't block me. I'm not gonna drag it like some victory, it's just agreeing to disagreeing and its healthier than looking up my blog taking notes on stuff i say, while knowing you will disagree with what you'll find.

Now, don't hide in the tags please

First part is...answered lol

As for the rest. I had to genuinely sit here remembering what is it that your're talking about as my dislike for Cinder and her ships definitely extends to the rotten baggage that is cinder x ruby. And i think you may be referring to the Phoenix guy Poll from like two weeks ago. Literally i have no idea why you'd grasp at that which is not even my doing but i guess there was nothing else to criticize out of my blog. Good. I'm gonna say you're right! I went safely into it thinking the person hosting it was level-headed. I should have undone my reblog the moment i heard about the presence of abusive ships like Snowfall, Fallen Petals, Tauradonna and so on (which for context, was a couple of days after the voting via people complaining about his poll on Twitter). You're tots right, it's too late now but i'm still gonna undo it and keep it in mind for next time! Last thing i'd want is to give those people a platform to vote. I make mistakes too 😁. I will say that it is a shame that speaking against abuse apologism (in general) gets labelled as an attempt at moral highground, like this is some war-game and the arguments are the battles, rather than this being genuine discomfort on my part (due to trauma).

Now, recap, just in case it wasn't clear already, i have nothing against kinning villains in the right way. I am a fan of Emerald, Mercury, Neo, and similars. Just because i said a thing about Cinder and the hypocrisy around this topic it doesn't mean i suddently hate people liking villains, and i'd probably expect a better argument from someone trying to tell me i'm wrong. All around i still don't have a defined idea on what's the line that divides abuse from just toxicity, so i'm not gonna tell you what to do (i wouldn't regardless), but im free to say what i think and honestly if it gets you this upset its probably best to avoid looking at my blog? or the rwby tag altogether? What you should do is not really up to me to say. So.

One last thing because i'd prefer to specify it all here instead of replying one more time, i am first on the line being grossed out by the behaviour of some anti-cinder individuals who crave a gross death and fucked up shit like that, i've said this before. I am also not the kind of person who sits well with people condaming young Cinder for shit she wasn't responsable for. But every choice she's made from there on was heartless and calculated, and to me personally it's just a huge trauma trigger when people act like she can be a completely different person from what she truly is at this point and separate her from all the suffering she's caused to people that i can relate to. And again, these are the cinder fans that should feel called out by my og post, among the hypocritical ones.

So yeah. That's more or less everything i have to say on the topic. Hope this reblog answers your questions.

Personally i don't think there's been any signs pointing towards Cinder rethinking her actions, it looks like the more she's given an opportunity to change the more she pushes it further and further away.

A sad past and your fan fabrications are not enough. Canon needs to show emphathy for her, and Cinder needs to show regret. These are the magic pills of incoming redemption, not a sad past.

I think it's valid to be of the opinion that "this is how redemptions arcs work, she strays further and further away until she hits bottom" but inserted in the context of rwby i find this scenario to be unlikely at this point because it's been 8 seasons and Cinder has done nothing but gather the narrative anger of fans, mcs and even the villains themselves. So much set up for an ending that should feel adeguate, and to be honest with you a full blown catra-zuko-like redemption is not adeguate to this context. Lives have been taken with no regrets on Cinder's part, from the show we got no signs of emphathy towards her current self, and the only evolution she's done is to become even more manipulative and evil, to the point where she killed her own allies. People may chose to hope (aka pretend she's not like adam bc she's a woman), but the show's been way too clear on Cinder's choice in the narrative. And to be frank with you, i am freaked out by how many people are willing to forgive her and act like nothing happened. The same people were violently hoping for Adam's death, so what happened here? Why are you rooting for someone even worse than him now?