#Villhelm Lamb

[sirenjose]

Theory: about Vilhelm, Alice, Orpheus, the final game, and who made the assassination request

The organization Vilhelm has had Evelyn train and grow for him, an organization (skilled in secrets, deception, disguise, and the like) which included women like Martha Behamfil, are highly likely to be the ones spying on Alice, who had been adopted and taken to Melbourne by Vilhelm for his experiments until she managed to escape with Orpheus' help. Vilhelm likely wasn't happy by this, which would explain why he might've sent his spies to find and investigate her. They were eventually exposed though, leading to their recommendation the target be "eliminat[ed]".

This could be when Vilhelm made the assassination request. Possibly because he couldn't let any information about his secret organization leak (or anything else bad he might've done), which could've been her intent eventually considering she decided to be an "investigative journalist" (solving mysteries and reporting on her findings).

And considering based on this we know Vilhelm was recommended to eliminate her, that would relate to the "assassination" request we knew Norton was given. This was the reason Norton went to the manor (for the final game), meaning the 2 options (so far) are Melly or Alice, and if the request came from Vilhelm, Alice is the more likely answer.

Melly on the other hand I think may currently be blackmailed by Orpheus, who I think found out about what she did to her husband, and thus why he would've sent her the same "rare" bee specimen that caused his death (implying he knew the truth).

I think everything Melly said is technically true (maybe could call it a lie of omission). She is here due to her husband's death, which was caused by a "type of rare bee venom" that wasn't recorded in his observation notes. And she did likely receive a bee specimen from the manor, the same that caused his death, and was promised info on the bee species and the cause of her husband's death if she participated in his game. But I think what is missing is she was the one to find and utilize that type of bee, which based on the Ashes of Memory Concept Video may have been the "Apis Mellifera Scutellata Lepeletier" or Africanized bee, and likely that Orpheus may have threatened to release the truth about how she killed her husband to the public if she didn't participate in his game. The Concept Video even had an article that talked about how they attack, how deadly their sting is, and affects caused by their sting, with the following frames showing a path for the bee from Cape Town in Africa to London, England.

It's possible Orpheus may have done similar to Norton, and maybe that could explain why Norton worked with Orpheus to capture and drug Alice in Orpheus' secret basement. Unless Alice did hallucinate Orpheus as Norton in that 1 basement scene where she's drugged.

If it wasn't a hallucination, that would imply Norton is working for both Orpheus and Vilhelm, unless the request came from Orpheus.

It's clear that Orpheus cares for Alice considering Alice's 1st letter shows he helped her to remember him (Orpheus) and escape from Vilhelm, with him calling her his "Nightingale" at the end of the letter (potentially a hint to Alice maybe being connected to "Miss Nightingale" in the present day). So Orpheus doesn't actually want her dead, but it's possible he might've made the request in order to create a situation where he could act like a hero and save her from death, gaining her trust and potentially helping them to grow closer together.

The order would've come from the manor owner (Baron DeRoss), meaning Norton (and everyone) wouldn't know Orpheus is the owner, and thus (if he does actually try to kill her) he would just think someone random (not the person who made the request) was trying to stop him.

Additionally, Orpheus most likely knows Alice is Alice, based on his behavior in Ashes of Memory 1 and 2, expressions, and how he knocks her out and drugs her. It's likely he kept an eye on her the whole time, including her time at White Sand Street Asylum (based on his 1st letter) and her time with Vilhelm in Melbourne, based on Alice's 1st letter and Alice's flashback during Ashes of Memory 2, as well as likely afterwards, after he helps her escape. It's probably just that Alice doesn't know who Orpheus really is (her friend from before the tragedy, or the fact he's the manor owner).

So, if Orpheus doesn't want to kill Alice, but is still trying to use his drugs on her, that may mean his goal has to do with her memories. We've already seen he cares about what she remembers, considering he made sure she remembered him. Maybe his goal then is to change her memories of the tragedy, the most significant and tragic moment of both their pasts. Her backstory even states she "suffered from hysteria" afterwards, while Orpheus' 1st letter states she is "unstable" and even includes the comment "what happened in the past wasn't a great memory to her". Therefore, maybe he wants to change that memory so it's no longer so painful for her. It's possible he may want her to completely forget, but as he didn't want her to forget him, I think it's more likely he wants to change the memory somehow, which could fit in with how the Hydra drug (which "reconstructs" memory) seems to be the drug with the most focus or emphasis (it's the drug Orpheus drinks near the latter part of the Time of Reunion event).

How exactly he wants it to change, I'm not quite sure yet. There is the possibility he wants to at least change her memory of his involvement in it, considering Bonbon's deductions implies he may have helped his real parents take some valuables from the manor. Maybe he also wants to disassociate himself from his real parents, so she doesn't remember it was his own parents that caused the events that led to her parents' deaths. He could do other things as well that would make the memory less painful, maybe even change who she thought her real parents were so she doesn't have to deal with the memory of losing them, who knows. Maybe he wanted to change it so he was the son of the DeRoss couple while she wasn't, so it'd be him in her memories that'd have to deal with their deaths rather than her as much. That could fit with the story he tells her, where he phrases it as he was the kid of the DeRoss couple instead of her. Whatever else, I don't know.

But we know from Alice's trailer that she wants to "face" the truth and whatever other troubles she encounters. She doesn't want Orpheus to be trying to make her avoid the pain by making her forget or changing her memories, nor does she likely agree with his experiments or methods he uses to test his drugs, and thus why she in the end will work to stop him (potentially with the help of Melly and Norton, considering Tracy's game as well as COA 4 emphasize the importance of teamwork to achieve victory).

I still wonder about the specifics regarding what Orpheus' end goal is, but I also wish I knew more about what Vilhelm (and Count Barriere) was trying to do. We know he wanted "goods" from the Mediterranean based on a deal he made with Jose's father, Joaquin Baden. We also know from Evelyn's backstory that he was having her training people like her (in deception, disguises, acting, tricks, good social skills, how to be dangerous, etc...) to work for him like some type of spy organization.

This is likely the same organization from Martha's 4th letter, which is referred to as some type of "unregistered organization" that even an official intelligence agency are unable to investigate with all their manpower and resources. Though it is suggested information on that organization may be "beyond our clearance level", suggesting it is pretty important.

Speaking of Martha, who we know was 1 of the most gifted students Evelyn trained, Martha we know from her 3rd letter is unable or unwilling to be herself. Considering how she was meant to take over for Evelyn, I wonder if this was the type of person Vilhelm wanted Alice to become. We know from her 1st letter she had been forgetting some things, including who Orpheus was. Maybe if Orpheus hadn't saved her sooner, Vilhelm would've been successful.

Maybe the "goods" Vilhelm wanted from the Mediterranean were for his experiments. Maybe it was some of the goods included the "Delphi" plant that we know is used in Orpheus' drugs, as well as Vera's Euphoria. Maybe like Orpheus, Vilhelm wants to mess with people's memories too, maybe to help his organization and to get whatever else it is he wants.

[quoththeowl31]

Villhelm Lamb Theory

Grasping at straws but I think it's an interesting theory;

Villhelm Lamb wanted to turn Alice into his heir; the experiments were meant to try and override Alice's personality and replace it with "Eury Lamb", however Alice was able to resist this thanks to her childhood memories and "Eury" never fully set in. It may point to why Alice expresses coming back into consciousness in her letters.

Part of why I'm making this a theory is because of how it looks like Dennis DeRoss, Villhelm Lamb, and Count Barriere were behind the Mediterranean Development and would have been acquainted with each other's families to some degree.

Villhelm clearly likes having power over people and it seems like he especially likes having power over women (creepy man).

Would it be possible Villhelm may have had an eye for Mrs. DeRoss? Could it be he thought Alice and Mrs. DeRoss should've been his but the latter rejected him?

[nightwonder7]

So seeing as how you've fallen into the Norton/Alice rabbit hole...thoughts on the theory Norton was hired to kill Alice?

Okay, so there are two possibilities of who might've hired Norton to eliminate Alice, assuming the "arrogant woman" he talks about in the second letter isn't Melly. Note: I'm basing some of these thoughts off of sirenjose's posts (their IDV analysis are really good!)

One, it could be Orpheus. As we saw in AoM2, Norton was working for or together with him, so it would check out that Orpheus is the one directing him. He could've thus be the one who ordered him to eliminate Alice. However, this does contradict what is implied to be Orpheus' motives for Alice. In his and Alice's letters, he was trying to set her free from where she was being kept and make her remember him. He wants his childhood best friend back, maybe to redeem himself from what transpired when the manor was under attack. Also, I'm pretty sure he knows who Alice is in AoM now, with the Lamb note appearing on her desk at the end, so it's not like he thinks she is her colleague. So why would he then order someone to kill her? I could dig deeper into Orpheus potentially having his perception skewed, having to obey someone higher than him in the manor games or setting Norton up to be the villain so he can become the hero in the story, but I'll refrain from straying too far.

Two, it could be someone else entirely, and the main suspect would be Villhelm Lamb; AKA Alice's adoptive father. From Evelyn's background trailer, we learn that Villhelm is ruling over an organisation of spies working for him. Once Alice escapes from him, someone were sent out to observe her or eliminate her; perhaps to prevent her from spilling out whatever dark secrets he possesses. These people could be this spy group. From Alice's deduction, it seems that she knows she is being watched, and so they never get a chance to eliminate her.

And then we have Norton. Norton would not turn down a large sum of money if offered to him. And after the incident in the mines, one could say his moral compass became a little misguided. Agreeing to kill someone for a life changing amount of money does not seem unlikely of him at this point in life, whether said pay would come from Orpheus or Villhelm.

The ONLY THING I just cannot wrap my head around is where the heck did they find this guy?? Technically, Norton is just a random person from the working class, so how did they even find him? I doubt they put up an "Assassin needed! Commission pay!" flyer on the wall. I mean, they could've just made an ad with the sum of money and no job specifications, but I struggle to see how that would even work when the task is so grizzly. Another thing I can't comprehend is how this employer would think someone like Norton would be more skilled and capable of assassination of someone as sharp as Alice than, say a group of spies. But maybe Norton really is just that; a guy they randomly picked for the job for whatever reason.

I've probably left something out, but those are my initial thoughts. Would be interesting if Alice somehow allies with Norton and Melly to put an end to the manor games. But I'm also preparing for the most tragic ending to this story fdshjfghsd

[theprinceandthewitch]

I don't think I mentioned this... but in Ashes of Memory, Alice receives a letter from Orpheus addressed as "Eury Lamb"

Lamb is the last name of the man who adopted her and experimented on her. It also serves as a reference to Little Girl's "Source of Evil" cosmetic, which is lamb themed.

"Eury" is a reference to Eurydice. People have theorized "Eury Lamb" is the name her adoptive father, Villhelm Lamb gave to her to keep her true identity a secret. But that's not rlly relevant...

What is relevant is that this makes Orpheus' alias choice even MORE obvious he loves Alice... this mans got romantic interest in her...

People who use that adoption letter as proof that the writers want you to view their relationship as sibling-like are so cringe. That letter is literally the direct opposite of "sibling-like".

Folks missed the part called "context": Orpheus [who was 17 at the time] knew she was being abused at the orphanage and tried to get her out in the least stressful way possible... and he couldn't even adopt her to begin with because the orphanage thought it would be best for her to be taken in by a blood relative. Which was a lie, because they ended up giving her to Villhelm Lamb to be used as his lab rat.

Like idk man... the writers have made it so abundantly clear Orpheus doesn't see her as a sister. That One letter doesn't prove he sees her as a sibling because if they wanted to make them siblings... then.... they would have... ya know, made them siblings... but they don't because.... they're not siblings and they're writing a tragic romance LMAO.

As for Alice, in AoM she calls him a playmate... granted she doesn't know Orpheus and her playmate are the same person, but she remembers him as her friend and not her brother... because.... they were never adopted siblings...

But yeah It's so crazy to think Orpheus doesn't love her... I'm over here losing my mind at That Scene in AoM where Orpheus asks Alice if she could play a song for him on her father's favorite piano.

What gets me is that this scene shows how much Orpheus missed her. He buys everything her relatives sold off so he can rebuild the mansions' interior to how it was when they were children. He also goes out of his way to fix her father's favorite piano. The piano didn't just need fine tuning - it was straight up destroyed during the raid. It was a really, really expensive thing to repair. Even though Alice's father had other pianos, some of which could have survived the raid, he rebuilds the one which holds alot of sentimental value to her... LIKE???

REALLY... You guys really want me to think Orpheus did all this JUST out of a sense of guilt for unintentionally causing the raid? You are rlly gonna look me in the eyes and tell me Orpheus using "Orpheus" as his alias while addressing Alice as "Eury" is totally platonic?

Are u rlly gonna say that to me knowing this official artwork made Norton and Melly wear their Pluto and Proserpina/Persephone outfits while Frederick, Orpheus, and Alice are dressed normally? My brother in Christ... will you rlly look me in the eyes and tell me Orpheus [AND THE BIRDS] holding flowers is platonic symbolism...

THIS ISN'T EVEN SUBTLE LOOOOL

How much more evidence do people need that these two aren't siblings AND they're on a whole romantic journey together...

[rosemaze-reveries]

ballet school au where all your classmates are villhelm lamb's girls and you're the only one out of the loop.. competing with martha for the top of the class because she wants to win evelyn's favor by proving her excellence, while you genuinely aspire to be a real prima ballerina

you always felt like things were "off" between you and everyone else but you didn't expect all your classmates to be trained in ESPIONAGE

all of them have such perfect reflexes its almost uncanny, but they play the role of dedicated ballet students too well for you to suspect anything,

[sirenjose]

Wu Chang's 2023 Character Day Letter Analysis (+ Qi Shiyi Analysis)

Letter Summary (Short)

Jose's father performs trades for others with some of his cargo as collateral

Umbrella eventually sold to Qi Shiyi

Theories

Jose's father, Joaquin Baden, is performing trades in the Mediterranean Sea, with some of his cargo (including the umbrella, with the receipt signed by "Bourbon", who's likely Sam) as collateral.

Based on the umbrella's involvement and the fact their voyage will take them to a new "specified area" of the Mediterranean, this should take place during Jose's 1st letter. The voyage Joaquin never returns from.

Based on the reference to the "Bourbon" signature and "list of goods", this should connect directly to Jose's 2nd letter. The "signature on my father's ledger of goods". This means that the "ledger of goods" Jose saw belonged to Joaquin's ship, which we know was called the "Parthenope" from Jose's 1st letter, from the voyage his father disappeared from.

Also, the fact Jose in his 2nd letter says he's seen this handwriting "once before" makes it sound like Sam was only involved with the Badens on this 1 voyage (aka, he doesn't regularly work with them).

Based on how it says "again", it seems they've sailed to the Mediterranean Sea to perform these trades before (they just go to different areas of it each time), meaning this is likely not the 1st time they've done this.

Could this be the "special missions" assigned to the Baden family by the royal family in Jose's deduction 5?

If so, is Villhelm Lamb potentially connected to the royal family?

It doesn't say what Joaquin earned as part of performing this trade. Yes, he gets his cargo labeled as collateral back, but what did he get in return? Money? Or was it just one of his tasks in service to the royal navy?

“Villhelm” relates to the Old German name William apparently, and can have meanings including “protector”. Lamb is explanatory enough.

I do wonder if it’s possible Villhelm Lamb could be the manor owner (aka, he used a fake name). It could be a real person and not a fake name, but like I said, it’s just something I wonder.

If it is a fake name, we know it can’t be Sam (or Demi) based on the “Bourbon” signature. Sam we know is a “colleague” of the manor owner based on Demi’s 3rd letter, and it was confirmed in Demi’s release backstory that Sam did go to the manor (specifically, it says he was “offered a job as a bartender” but it’s likely this wasn’t the complete truth considering what we know he worked on while there based on Demi’s 3rd letter).

We know Sam’s “masterpiece”, which the manor owner also refers to as a “drug” and “reagent”, used the same “raw materials” as the manor owner’s, likely referring to the fern known as “Delphi” based on Vera’s 4th letter.

We know the materials the owner used were supplied to him via the 2nd anniversary package (which says “new specimens arrived”, “before the next restock”, and “I must find someone else to help me supply”). Demi’s 1st letter talks having “extracted 9 samples from the things they brought back from the Mediterranean Sea”. Considering what we know Joaquin was doing in the Mediterranean, these “things” likely came from the Badens, and may have been the “Delphi” ferns.

All of this is why I do wonder if Orpheus could’ve been Villhelm Lamb.

If anything, the meaning of the name Villhelm, “protector”, relates to what Alice says Orpheus promised her in the 2nd anniversary package “…person who promised to protect me forever”. (Orpheus’ S-tier, Hollow, in his design notes even mentions “he once thought he could use his way to protect his island, everything he loves”).

Going even further, “Lamb” ties to Alice based on her Source of Evil, who’s description even says “Perhaps ‘purity’ is merely the lamb’s disguise – it’s in truth the origin of all sins and the source of evil thoughts”, while her design notes even say “the little girl is the lamb”.

Ergo, maybe Orpheus chose the name “Villhelm Lamb” as a nod to him protecting Alice.

With how it says “the Promisee shall put up a shipment of goods as collateral”, it sounds like it was Joaquin (or maybe Sam, who seems to be the one inspecting the goods?) chose to offer the umbrella as collateral. Was it because they didn’t think it valuable?

Moving on to Qi Shiyi, it seems like “Legwraps Huang” (in the Chinese version, the line here is “脛巾の黄三児より” had his friend Chang Chip (though earlier it said the “last word has been altered many time”) meet him at a harbor about the umbrella he that came into his “possession”. According to Legwraps Huang, he acquired it from a “friend working on a foreigner’s fleet”. The umbrella should be the same one Joaquin put up as collateral, Wu Chang’s, while the “foreigner’s fleet” should be the Baden’s.

It is unknown who this “friend” is, but there is something interesting about “Chang Chip”, especially after Legwraps Huang comments “Do you remember boarding that huge ship together back then?”. What’s interesting is that “Chang Chip” was the name of 1 of the 6 Chinese survivors of the sinking of the Titanic (there were 8 Chinese passengers in the third-class cabins on the titanic total). The other 5 were Lee Bing, Fang Lang, Ah Lam, Cheong Foo, and Ling Hee (the 2 that died were Len Lam and Lee Ling). These 6 eventually arrived in the UK to support the sailor shortage during World War I. Chang Chip apparently grew ill and eventually died 2 years later due to pneumonia.

I find this especially interesting as Demi’s 2nd letter is apparently written “on the Back of an Old Ferry Ticket”. This “ferry ticket was for a trip from Southampton to New York. It had not been used”. Southampton to New York was the route the Titanic took the day it sank. Considering Legwraps Huang describes the boat as “huge”, it seems fairly certain the boat is meant to parallel the Titanic. Though the Titanic sailed in 1912, which is a few too many years ahead of what the time period of the game currently, which is still sometime before 1900, at least until/after the Final Game.

Considering Huang describes Chang Chip as “wearing one of those jackets made by foreigners”, this seems to fit with what we know from history about them going to the UK and becoming sailors.

As such, it’s likely that Legwraps Huang is meant to be 1 of the 5 other Titanic Survivors (excluding Chang Chip).

Even though Sam didn’t board that ship, maybe Sam and Huang somehow did know each other, for Sam to be the “friend” Huang got the umbrella from. I mean, Sam’s signature as well as the umbrella were “circled” according to Wu Chang’s letter, so maybe it’s possible.

I have 1 other idea. Based on the letter, it’s likely that Legwraps Huang got the umbrella when Joaquin failed to fulfill the task with the required items, at which point Villhelm Lamb may have given away or sold the shipment of goods left to him as collateral by Joaquin. In which case, Villhelm Lamb may be the “friend” Legwraps Huang referenced. And technically, this idea and the theory Villhelm Lamb could be Orpheus aren’t mutually exclusive, as the manor owner (if he is Villhelm Lamb) could’ve sold the umbrella as he also didn’t see it as something valuable (and if he really is in debt to Count Barriere and then Lily, he might need the money anyways).

If Joaquin and the Parthenope did sink while attempting to retrieve “the goods from the specified area in the Mediterranean Sea”, that would also imply their wreck was likely in the Mediterranean. In that case, that means the wreck at Lakeside Village (which we know has to belong to Jose’s father based on what can be found in the ship: https://twitter.com/SirenJose/status/1558166028022173696?s=20) likely wasn’t the wreck from Joaquin’s disappearance.

Though that does mean it could’ve been their wreck from the “nightmarish waters” incident, when they sailed through the area marked as “dangerous” to avoid a storm and any “delay[s]” (if most of the crew perished according to Jose’s deductions and it took 2 months before they could sail home, especially if the waters are described as “nightmarish” and “dangerous”, it is highly likely they did shipwreck).

The large shipwreck at Lakeside is referenced in several letters, including when Volcker went there to investigate, and in another letter that mentions an old man is living in the shipwreck. This means the shipwreck is from before the Lakeside villagers disappeared, and could’ve potentially been there for a long while, which would fit if it was from the wreck right before the DeRoss tragedy (https://twitter.com/SirenJose/status/1682410040664244224).

Another important point is that, if the umbrella was being used as “collateral” and would only be returned if Joaquin provided the goods desired from the specified area, that means the “them” that the “cannons couldn’t kill” wasn’t Wu Chang. The umbrella wouldn’t have even been on board the ship when it sank, instead being held by Villhelm Lamb for at the time. If the umbrella wasn’t on board, it means they couldn’t have been behind whatever the crew were trying to kill. It’s still possible due to possessing the umbrella at all that the were the victims of the umbrella’s misfortune, even though it wasn’t with them at that time.

It still seems like if the crew were trying to kill something with cannons, but failing, that may mean they were hallucinating. If Wu Chang wasn’t behind the hallucinations, what then? Well, we are aware of something that can cause hallucinations, something the manor owner himself created, who may have even been the “Villhelm Lamb” who requested Joaquin and his crew go to the specified location.

Even if the owner isn’t Villhelm Lamb, we do know Sam, who was the one to actually sign the “ledger of goods” for Joaquin’s ship that day, does work for the owner. And in Demi’s 2nd letter does say “Despite our many attempts, the new mice all died in fear with no exception”. “New” would fit with the idea Sam was only involved with the Badens this one time (based on Jose saying he’s only seen the handwriting once before). “Mice” could just be a way to refer to test subjects, and we already know the manor owner and Sam have both performed experiments for their drugs on people. The manor owner experimented with all the participants of his game. With Sam, he at least tested on Demi’s mother based on him commenting on Demi having the “same curious drug resistance as her crazy mother”. There’s also how Demi’s deductions reference him having “observation diar[ies]”, not to mention if Dovlin was the drug he was trying to perfect, and we know he’s let others at their bar have the drink, but not Demi interestingly (suspiciously), he may have also used the customers of their bar as test subjects. That may have been why, when it wasn’t working well enough, he had to go to the manor. Finally, the part about the “mice all died in fear with no exception” could relate to how we know the crew were freaked out about some “them” that they tried (and failed) to kill with the cannons, with the part about all dying “with no exception” can connect to how, unlike the “nightmarish waters” incident, the entire crew “with[out] exception” died this time.

Aka, the manor owner or Sam are possibly the reason for Jose’s father’s disappearance. Or both considering Demi’s 2nd letter references “start[ing] the game immediately” aka the manor owner’s games as we know Sam was the manor owner’s “colleague”. If Joaquin really was involved in the DeRoss tragedy, it’s possible Orpheus chose them as the “mice” as part of his revenge. Though Sam does say “this is clearly not what he expected to see”, but that could simply refer to them all dying, but not necessarily that he didn’t want to make them hallucinate or suffer. He may have not expected it simply because he wanted to continue to use them for more experiments, like he does for the participants of his games, who he is willing to reuse in multiple rounds or experiments.

We see that Chang Chip eventually sells the umbrella, as well as his store, to Qi Shiyi. The umbrella is specified to be sold at a “discounted price”, which sounds like Chang Chip wanted to get the umbrella off his hands and away quickly. This may mean he was a victim of the bad luck that seems to follow that umbrella (which would semi parallel the real Chang Chip’s fate).

As for the addresses, we can actually find these locations in the in-game Chinatown map.

“Blessed Luck, Ramyhurst Street”

We know this is the location of Chang Chip’s, and later Qi Shiyi’s, store based on the sign (you can check the Chinese version of Wu Chang’s letter to confirm).

“Royal Scenery, Ramyhurst Street”

We know this is the other location, “Royal Scenery”, due to connecting it to Chinatown’s backstory. In it, we see that Lin Jingfu is the owner of Yujing Pavilion (aka 御景轩, the same name used in the Chinese version of the letter). The backstory talks about him excelling at making clay sculptures, and his art was so popular he was always in short supply. Lin Jingfu we know is who Qi Shiyi is staying with, as he is a “distant relative” of Qi’s “Uncle Lin” aka “Lin Congbin” and Qi is sent to him when Lin Congbin dies.

We know from this deduction that Lin Jingfu is pressured (potentially by his family or wife) to “kick her out”. Qi becomes an assassin to earn some money and ensure she doesn’t starve (she is described as a “motherless beggar” in her deduction 7), potentially for Tang Jiashi considering how the Tang family businesses have been closing in Qi’s last deduction, as well as how Qi talks about Tang Jiashi not being able to get in touch with her, or maybe someone else if not Tang Jiashi. That’s why Qi’s deduction 8 says “many wealthy businessmen in the city were found dead. It’s a suspected case of hired killings due to unethical business practice”. It fits considering we already know Qi’s design notes say she studied “martial arts... to survive and get revenge”.

Earning money in this way is likely how she was able to eventually earn enough to buy Chang Chip’s antique shop, which again matches with how her design notes says she “[fled] the country, even crossing the ocean, before finally living among ordinary people as an antique dealer”.

This here may be the part in Qi Shiyi’s story where she attempted to “rid her hands of the stains that plagued them and attempt a new life as an ordinary person”. This means she likely stopped performing assassinations and sought to go clean and earn whatever she needed from her new antique shop. Considering her parents were described as “scholars”, so maybe being the owner of an antique shop was in some way related to what her family used to do, which could’ve been why she was willing to attempt to be an “ordinary person” and “rid her hands of the stains that plagued them” (aka, stopping all her assassination attempts and revenge).

Considering the mention of “Xie” in her deduction 2, it’s possible Qi’s family, the Xiao family, knew or were friends with the Xie family. If it is the same “Xie” as Xie Bi’an, considering Wu Chang’s backstory states how “people believed that Xie Bi’an (White Guard) resided in the umbrella”, it’s possible that his family kept the umbrella as a keepsake (or relic of the deceased). At least until the 2 families were executed for “colluding, conspiring to rebel, sowing discord among the people, and seeking to do harm to the government”. Whether or not they actually did what they were accused of, we don’t know for sure. They could’ve been innocent (maybe similar to Wu Chang in his backstory), or maybe they weren’t. All we have is that Qi Shiyi’s backstory says “the Xiao family's decision to shut out the outside world was the reason for their downfall”. After they were killed, she was taken in by Lin Congbin “an old servant of the Xiao family who’d returned home from an illness… The two of them were destitute like beggars”. Qi attempts to get revenge via assassination (on the emperor potentially), but only his “double” actually died. It is then that she is forced to flee, after which she’s taken in by Lin Jingfu and everything we’ve already discussed.

Going back to her trying to live like an “ordinary person”, we know however that peace didn’t last forever for her, as “that manor decided to steal away the most important person in her life...”. The person that was “[stolen] away” was likely Tang Si from Qi’s deduction 10, who she potentially befriended, as Qi’s backstory trailer says “And for her safe return”. Qi goes to the manor to retrieve Tang Si (we have no way to know right now how she ended up there), and this is likely how Wu Chang’s umbrella ended up at the manor before Jose arrived.

Therefore, based on this, it’s possible that Qi Shiyi was in an earlier game before Jose, potentially Game 1 (after Game 0) as that is the 1 game before Jose’s (game 5) that we have no knowledge of any of the participants (though I do wonder if Lily could also be in game 1 as she is tied to Galatea, from game 0, and she may want Orpheus to pay his debt to help Simon, and Orpheus does also appear in game 0, so maybe game 1 could make some sense for her if not the final game).

[quoththeowl31]

Ok so we have two head honchos:

Count Barriere

Villhelm Lamb

And these two are at the forefront of a ring of drugs and human experimentation, and death. The purpose most likely related to having power in the world.

Dennis DeRoss may have known both of them as he was an aristocrat and Joaquin Baden did business with Villhelm Lamb.

Characters who are connected to Barriere:

Lily

Keogh

Orpheus (most likely)

Percy

Edgar Valden

Characters connected to Villhelm:

Alice (unwilling test subject)

Martha

Evelyn

Joaquin Baden

[sirenjose]

Details + Theory on Jose's 4th Birthday Emote

Based on the International Code of Signals (which didn't exist until 1901):

K: “I wish to communicate with you.”

L: “You should stop your vessel instantly.”

X: “Stop carrying out your intentions and watch for my signals.”

(From @poseidonwatch on Discord)

“It's important for someone to be this still while signaling seeing as there are some letters that might look similar to others, so the message trying to be conveyed won't be misinterpreted. For example, K looks like D (‘Keep clear of me; I am maneuvering with difficulty’), X looks like E (‘I am altering my course to starboard’)”

(Regarding Jose’s posture while performing the emote) “It's good signaling posture, one must set their arms back down for no longer than a second so the following message can be given out instead of jumping from one to the other frantically.

(My) Theory:

The emote description is: “Parthenope, I request a line of communication”. This matches the meaning of “K”. As for L and X, he’s basically telling them to stop what they’re doing. He wants the Parthenope specifically to stop moving (L) and cease its current course of actions (X). These are typically signals used when there is a need for urgent action or relay a critical message related to safety or navigation. It could be because of a change in plans, a potential hazard, or for the vessel to stay alert.

What I wonder is it’s possible this could be tied to Jose asking his father to stop what he’s doing, in relation to some of the not great things he’s done, including getting the crew killed in deduction 3 and 4, the potential involvement in the DeRoss tragedy, but also regarding his work with Villhelm Lamb, considering his father is using the Queen’s own treasures as collateral for his likely not sanctioned dealings with Villhelm.

Aka, telling them to not work with Villhelm Lamb, to not go to the Mediterranean, to stop their intention to use the Queen’s treasure as collateral, etc…

This would relate to Jose purposefully not joining certain voyages, as well as to the idea he found his father’s letter talking about doing something to Jose to potentially make him forget and force him to do his job. The fact the deduction right after that one is how Jose made a “large number of corrections” to the route/chart seems to show he was doing something against his father, and thus that the 2 of them may not have gotten along very well. But we also know Jose didn’t necessarily hate his father, as from his backstory, rumor, and trailer that he did also go to the manor partially hoping to find his father, as well as how before that he did wait for his father’s return the day he disappeared.

[sirenjose]

Correction: Villhelm Lamb may be the man who adopted Alice

Alice based on a letter from AoM also uses the name Eury Lamb. In which case, Villhelm Lamb may be the name of the "medical professor" that adopted her from the orphanage and brought her to Melbourne.

This is likely the "kind individual" referenced in Orpheus' letter who "offered a significant amount of financial assistance to the orphanage and put together an excellent treatment package designed exclusively for Alice".

A letter that ended with "'LIAR!' in red. The person who wrote this was clearly furious" Orpheus should be the writer of that word, the 1 that was "furious".

Regarding the "treatment package designed exclusively for Alice", this should refer to when she was an "experimental subject", when she had "prolonged medication and physical therapy" that allowed her to "regain consciousness" but is later described as "it is perhaps more cruel to live soberly in hell than to live unaware in human world" as well as she describes leaving Melbourne as "escap[ing]".

If this is the same Villhelm Lamb from Wu Chang's letter, that means he's seeking something (some type of goods) from the Mediterranean for some reason. There's still a good chance he could be after the fern Delphi, the same material Orpheus uses in his drugs.

I do wonder if it's possible if Villhelm could be the individual referenced by Orpheus at the end of Demi's letter, the "other player" that he comments about when he says "But perhaps I'm the better one. After all, I found my answer in the end, and he may never find out... The problem we seek to solve has never been the same".

The problems they both seek to solve that Orpheus thinks aren't the same could both involve Alice, at least based on Orpheus' letter. They both sought to help (though maybe not for the same reasons) Alice in the orphanage after the DeRoss tragedy. We know Alice was an "experimental subject" for the man who adopted her, and we know Orpheus is carrying out experiments via his manor games, and there's a good chance both (if the man who adopted Alice is Villhelm Lamb) both are seeking Delphi (ferns) and/or to use Delphi in their experiments.

When Orpheus says he "found my answer in the end", it could refer to how he may have found at least some success via his experiments, or at least the path to the answer to his problems, aka the drugs he's working on. Him saying "he may never find out" could refer to how Villhelm Lamb's work may have been interrupted when Joaquin Baden, his supplier, disappeared (with Sam who works for the manor owner as the potential cause via his drug as we know Joaquin and his crew were hallucinating, and it's possible Orpheus asked Sam to do what he did).

The part where he says "the problem we seek to solve has never been the same" could refer to how Orpheus seeks to help/cure Alice of her problems after the tragedy that resulted in the death of her parents, while Villhelm Lamb may have only seen Alice as an opportunity and sought to use Alice as an "experimental subject" for his own ends.

But what experiment is Villhelm Lamb seeking to perform? What is his goal? He's surely more than just a "kind individual" based on Alice's backstory. If he also wants Delphi, is he also working on some kind of drug? Or something else? And how exactly did Alice "escape"? I doubt he just let her go if it's described that way.

Hopefully we'll get more answers soon.

[sirenjose]

2 Theories involving Jose's 2nd Letter

Theory #1: Villhelm Lamb targeted Sam?

Jose in his 2nd letter comments about seeing a “signature” belonging to “a person by the name of ‘Bourbon’” which he saw “on my father’s ledger of goods once before”.

This should be the same “shipment of goods” to be put as “collateral and [given] to the [Villhelm Lamb] for safekeeping” referenced in Wu Chang’s 4th letter. On the “list of goods”, it says 2 things are circled: “an antique umbrella from China” aka Wu Chang’s umbrella, and “a signature that reads ‘Bourbon’”.

The “Bourbon” signature is likely to belong to Sam.

Does this mean Villhelm wanted Sam as collateral (along with the umbrella)?

Villhelm may also be interested in Sam’s “masterpiece” (as the manor owner refers to it in Demi’s 3rd letter) aka dovlin and/or the drugs him or the manor owner are developing. We know he was using Alice as an experiment and subjected her to “prolonged medication and physical therapy”. He was likely the “kind individual” from Orpheus’ letter who “put together an excellent treatment package designed exclusively for Alice”, the same letter that Orpheus wrote “LIAR!” in red on, with the person described as ���clearly furious”. Orpheus likely hated Villhelm for taking Alice. There’s also a chance Villhelm is the individual the manor owner refers to when he says at the end of Demi’s 3rd letter “[Demi] is an outstanding pawn in experiments, but I’m not the only player. But perhaps I’m the better one. After all, I found my answer in the end, and he may never find out… The problem we seek to solve has never been the same”.

Another thought, but if Villhelm is also performing experiments, and may be interested in the drugs Sam and/or the manor owner are developing, is it possible he could be behind Joaquin’s and the crew’s hallucinations in Jose’s 1st letter that lead to their deaths? Sam may have been involved with Joaquin in case Jose’s father was supplying Sam and the owner with Delphi for their experiments (or whatever “things” Sam extracted “9 samples” from back in Demi’s 1st letter). Villhelm may have gotten involved then maybe purposefully caused their deaths (potentially making it seem like an accident, or like he had no involvement at least) so he could keep the collateral, which could’ve included the stuff Joaquin was supplying Sam and/or the owner with, or if the only collateral Villhelm took was the umbrella and potentially Sam, maybe his goal was Sam or whatever he knew?

What if Villhelm is the “traitor” Sam and/or Demi references in Demi’s 1st and 2nd letters that “stole” 1 of the samples that “met your expectations”? In which case, Joaquin may be the supplier of the things “they brought back from the Mediterranean Sea” and thus might’ve been working with Sam and/or the owner for some time? Or at least more than once? Maybe Villhelm “stole it” during/as part of the mission when Joaquin and his crew perish?

Maybe rather than take Sam he took 1 of his “samples”?

What if Villhelm is also somehow behind Sam’s disappearance?

Sam should be at the manor considering Jose says the “handwritten note” in the lobby is the same handwriting as the person who signed “Bourbon” on his father’s list of goods. He is also likely the 2nd set of handwriting referenced in Wu Chang’s 3rd letter. So there’s a good chance Villhelm never took him, especially as it sounds like Sam was still working at the manor on dovlin for some time after Joaquin died. I just can’t help thinking/wondering anyways.

Theory #2: Sam wrote the note stating 1 person must drink the poison

The handwriting is the same as a “handwritten note” that “appeared in the lobby some days ago”.

What if the “handwritten note” was the 1 that stated 1 of them had to drink the “poison”?

Vera’s and Patricia’s 2nd letters, which take place on the 1st night, do not mention the poison. Only Kevin’s 2nd letter does, which is stated to be the 3rd night.

Jose’s 2nd letter says the note appeared “some days ago” and we know from Vera’s 3rd letter there were at least 5 nights total before the game started. Jose’s 2nd letter seems to be right before the game starts, in which case there would be “some days” between the 3rd and 5th nights.

The note that 1 of the participants has to drink poison is the only “note” we know so far that the manor owner would’ve written to that group, so there’s a good chance that’s the note Jose was referring to.

In this case, as Jose says the handwriting of that note matched that of the person who signed “Bourbon” on his father’s list of goods, that means Sam may have been the 1 to write the note that stated 1 of them had to drink “poison”.

This “poison”, if the note was written by Sam could have actually been Sam’s “masterpiece” aka the dovlin he had been trying to perfect for Demi. If so, that would explain why Kevin didn’t die after drinking “poison”.

It would also relate to Kevin from the summer event, in the endings involving Demi if he drinks too much Sea Salt Mocktail, where either he knows the secret to her drink and helps Demi manage the bar or he doesn’t know the secret and stays with her to keep drinking more Sea Salt Mocktail (as he’s now become addicted).

Maybe Kevin was Sam’s experimental subject to test if he’d perfected his drink before he sends his recipe to Demi. This could fit considering Kevin’s and Jose’s game (game 5) is almost right before Demi’s game (game 6b)

[sirenjose]

Theory: Jose has drug resistance?

Sub Theory: Jose forgot how to be a "good man" (no trauma + pursues luxury) due to manor owner's drugs ONCE Jose’s design notes state if Jose had been on his father’s ship that day, no one (+ the Queen's treasure) would have disappeared.

It’s further confirmed as the design notes state the theme of the ONCE series is “what if something that affected the life of some character had not happened”.

As I said in my 1st theory, Jose’s father and crew seemingly died due to being drugged.

So how could Jose being onboard the ship have saved them? 2 ideas I had:

1) Drug Immunity

2) "Strong drug resistance" due to both manor owner's and Sam's drugs used on him at the same time

1 thought is he might have a similar drug immunity to Demi. In which case, he’d be immune to the hallucinations and potentially helped keep control of the ship.

Or if the drugs chance of causing death was the main issue, maybe he could’ve prevented the crew from taking the drugs (which could’ve been in their drinks) due to his authority as First Officer. Or maybe his hypnosis could’ve helped (at least until they could get back to land). Or maybe he could’ve stopped them from going on the mission for Villhelm and focused only on the official mission for the Queen (if that’d help any).

Drugs didn’t seem to get used in Game 5 according to Patricia’s 3rd letter, so maybe this could relate?

If not drug immunity, there is how in Demi’s 3rd letter the manor owner says there’s a “strong drug resistance created by any interactions between them”, with “them” being Orpheus and Sam’s different drugs. Jose, unlike his father and crew, has been mentioned to have had drugs used on him prior to the day his father vanished. This is based on his deduction 6 as part of doctors’ attempts to deal with his panic attacks and night terrors caused by his trauma. There was also a separate attempt by Jose’s own father in Jose’s deduction 8, who may have asked Villhelm Lamb (or someone else) to try to fix Jose’s issues to ensure he could do his jobs. That deduction is even called “drugs”, and there are 2 different mentions to making Jose forget, both beneath the title with “to forget is the best cure” and when Joaquin says “I don’t need my son to remember how to be a good man”. In his 4th letter even references having hallucinations caused by drugs (“it is no longer a hallucination under the influence of drugs and alcohol”).

It's actually interesting that Jose’s father says he doesn’t need Jose to be a “good man”. Maybe that could explain why Jose in his ONCE skin acts how he does. His ONCE skin’s design notes describe him as pursuing a life of luxury and pleasure, as well as how he indulges in revelry and soaks up the atmosphere of the balls he attends. Maybe this is what Joaquin meant when he said Jose wouldn’t remember how to be a “good man”. This Jose is very different from the Jose we know he becomes once he loses his father. It's also very different from the traumatized sailor who doctors proclaimed “unfit to sail” due to his trauma from the events of deduction 3 and 4. Maybe the reason for the drastic transformation was because he indeed forgot.

Maybe it was due to drugs provided by either Sam and the manor owner or Villhelm Lamb upon Joaquin’s request. Orpheus we know has drugs that can either make a person forget or “rebuild” them. We also know from the fact Joaquin did worked with Sam and thus also the manor owner to some extent that this could enable Joaquin potential access to those drugs, even if it meant Jose being an experimental subject. So if Jose had both the manor owner’s drugs as well as Sam’s used on him at the same time, that would produce the “strong drug immunity” the manor owner describes as causing him problems in Game 6b with Demi and the others.