#Vegeta's Goku obsession

[sweetescapeartist]

EXAMINING VEGETA'S TORTUROUS TRAINING OBSESSION

GRAVITY TRAINING OBSESSION:

Vegeta became so obsessed with gravity training solely because he heard that Goku did gravity training during his 6 day space treck to Planet Namek during the Freeza Saga.

Contrary to DBZ filler, 300G was apparently too much for Vegeta before he could turn SSJ. So, the filler of him training under 450G is out of question. I say so because what we are shown of Vegeta's training in the manga is that he can't even stand in what is presumed to be 300G. As often was the case for Vegeta in DBZ pre-development, his ego was too big.

In reality, Vegeta in the original material could barely stand 300G a little better than Yamcha could in inaccurate DBZ filler.

This is why we see Vegeta training at 150G rather than 300G after that point. He appears to be able to handle 150G in base well enough to get a good workout. But, it's very unlikely that base Vegeta can handle 300G. He needs to turn SSJ for that.

DBZ Buu Saga: 150G's as a SSJ when training with Trunks.

DBZ Buu Saga: Possibly 300G's or more as a SSJ when training alone. Likely 150G's or a bit higher when in his base form.

DBS Beerus Saga: 150G's in his base form. And afterwards, he was sweating & exhausted.

Gravity training is what Vegeta is shown doing almost all the time. He did gravity training during the 3 years preparing to fight the androids, then continued to does so for the 7 years between the Cell Saga & the Buu Saga of DBZ. And around 4 years after the Buu Saga into DBS, Vegeta was still doing gravity training. So, about 15 years of constant gravity training in total.

TORTUROUS TRAINING:

Goku points out that constantly doing intense training isn't good for the body. Both the narrator & Goku go as far as to call overdoing training as "TORTURE."

However, we're shown that Vegeta constantly tortures himself in an attempt to exploit his Zenkai-Boosts because he doesn't understand how to properly train.

When Vegeta wasn't spending most of his time torturing himself in the Gravity Room, then he'd "train" by standing motionless out in the wilderness without eating, drinking, or doing anything for days while he let the harsh elements take a toll on his body; torturing his body in order to make it stronger (which negatively affected his mind, factoring into why he often used to ignore & neglect his family if it didn't have anything to do with his training).

In DB Chapter 365, Vegeta flew off in a huff. Later, it says 2 days then 3 days pass. In DB Chapter 366, {DBZ episode 147 & DBK episode 71} Trunks said that Vegeta stood in one spot for the past 3 days. But, when looking at context clues, it is more likely that Vegeta stood there for 5 days in total & Trunks was just around for the last 3.

In DBS Episode 15 & 16, Vegeta still "trains" by standing motionless for many days (possibly even a week or so) in harsh & dangerous weather when he isn't in the Gravity Room. Then, Vegeta returns to Capsule Corp. afterwards to wash up, eat, gravity training, repeat.

DIMINISHED RESULTS:

Vegeta kept attempting to exploit his Zenkai-Boosts, BUT there are limits to Zenkai-Boosts. After a while, Zenkai-Boosts stop as shown in the Buu Saga when Gohan didn't get any stronger after Dende healed him. And Gohan had way more potential than what Vegeta had.

Despite getting stronger from torturous "training" in the Gravity Room & building his durability by standing in harsh weather, Vegeta's gains aren't as great as could be if he trained properly.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOKU & VEGETA:

Goku was a low-born outcast Saiyan raised as an Earthling martial artist who trained properly all his life to acquire his strength, becoming a prodigy. After barely managing to keep up with Vegeta during their first encounter, Goku managed to pull further ahead as time progressed due to knowing how to control his spiritual energy.

Vegeta is simply a natural born prodigy amongst Saiyans who only understood how to exploits his natural abilities for power in his attempt to be stronger than Goku again. Before begging Whis to train him, Vegeta had no teacher besides the bit of combat training he recieved as a child by Saiyans who don't know how to properly train.

This is why Vegeta's SSJ2 was significantly weaker than Goku's SSJ2 and he resorted to letting Babidi possess him just to catch up. Vegeta is in fact more gifted than Goku & he had trained harder, HOWEVER Goku knows how to train correctly to get stronger.

WHY KI CONTROL IS SO IMPORTANT:

Control of your ki is the best way to surpass your limits.

Just like all Saiyans before him, Vegeta mostly relied on his raw power & the Saiyan ability of physical transformation to surpass his limits rather than ki control. This is why Vegeta began falling behind Goku after their first battle.

And as Whis explained in DBS EP 16, Vegeta needed to learn ki control if he ever wanted to surpass Goku.

Once Vegeta learned advanced ki control from a godly being like Whis, he actually caught up to Goku's newfound power he acquired from becoming a SSG.

However, as shown in DBS EP 18, Vegeta STILL has the bad habit of over-training himself when he needs to be resting.

Meanwhile, Goku applied the Turtle School teachings of "resting well" & didn't torture himself unnecessarily.

Currently, in the timeframe of DBS: Super Hero, Vegeta has began to rest well & even began to meditate.

After about 20 years when he had his first serious battle on Earth, Vegeta is finally becoming a proper martial artists and going down the path of Budō.

EXTRA:

Vegeta's gravity training obsession was actually a Goku obsession. So, Vegeta training in the Gravity Room less in DBS is a sublte way to tell the viewer that he is becoming less obsessed with Goku & becoming more of an actual martial artist. However... He still trains almost all the time. It's just as Bulma & others like Freeza have said, Saiyans are battle-addicted.

I personally believe that Vegeta is physically stronger than Goku. One reason being that during the Buu Saga while base Goku trained with 8 tons on his body, base Vegeta trained in 150G which would make his entire body weigh 9 tons. However, Goku is far more adept when it comes to ki control & with using his ki to amplify his physical limits. Goku is also a much more skillful fighter due to his martial arts upbringing. DBS: Broly does a very job at highlighting the difference between how they fight. Vegeta was more about brute strength while Goku was more about skill.

Hypothetically, it's possible that Vegeta could turn SSJ3 now that he has trained under Whis, but such a stamina draining transformations is pointless since Vegeta has SSG & SSB. Also, Vegeta probably doesn't know how to transform into SSJ3 due to not needing it at this point.

Vegeta did have an outburst of anger when Beerus slapped Bulma, allowing his SSJ2 form to surpass Goku's SSJ3 form but, everyone gets a power boost through anger, even human characters. Krillin got one when Yamcha died & Tien got one when Chaozu died. It's not a Saiyan thing. It's a human emotion thing. And Vegeta becoming more "human" is what gave him this power boost. Well... that along with the fact that Babidi released Vegeta's potential beyond his normal limits which allowed him to reach greater hights than he normally could before. Also, the fact that Goku trained less when he came back to life because he began to work as a farmer. Meanwhile, Vegeta trained everyday & at times all day, allowing for Vegeta to gradually close the gap a bit between himself & Goku.

Vegeta stops abusing his body so much with gravity training in DBS. After he began training under Whis, the only instance I can recall of Vegeta training in the Gravity Room again was in DBS EP 51. (However, he & Goku do train in the Gravity Room together once in the DBS Manga Continuity after the Tournament of Power.) Instead, Vegeta began sparring more often. Training with Goku is beneficial to increasing both of their strength due to their Saiyan-Power (the natural Saiyan ability to grow stronger during battle). IF Vegeta & Goku still get Zenkai-Boosts, it's not very significant anymore. And the Zenkai-Boosts would apply for their current highest Saiyan form. But, Saiyan-Power is still a natural ability they still have to make them stronger.

[letoscrawls]

To honor Akira Toriyama i drew future Trunks aka my first ever crush

[dragon-deez-ballz]

i was drawing tama and cute things but then BOOM goku fat thighs jumpscare on my canvas :fear emoji:

[the-fictional-wife]

My Sparking Turles

THE GAME BROUGHT BACK MY OBSESSION RAHHH- I only really planned the first part sorry for the quality drop but it was so fun to make💪

Also posted on my Tiktok batboysclub! (though lowkey looks better here, other there just has subtitles text)

[xenneez]

so basically! bassicallly....

I started dbz not too long ago and I'm more than halfway done and I just can't take it anymoreeeeeeeuhh I love them

[un-pearable]

it’s 100% the ace in me but i’m obsessed with characters who absolutely are obsessed with someone else but are too myopic/self absorbed/emotionally illiterate to ever realize they are. or that they’re gay/in love/whatever. or that those are even options

[twunkus]

girls love not knowing where to start on the dragonball media timeline

[kayforpay]

"could goku beat him?" not the right question. is he deserving of being beaten? goku is looking for a good time unless someone is doing direct active evil where he can see. he wasn't even that invested in stopping raditz until his own son got stolen. goku's power isn't the question, it's his personal investment in the situation.

[spirithunterschoolwarpriestfan]

“In the name of Mike Mako, and all that is wet and wild, I punish you for eternity!!! JOHNNY TSUNAMI!!! ”

[batchsncookies]

the polycule working together

[super-vegeta]

intro!

hey ya, my name is ana. i'm 26 and my pronouns are she/her. i was on twitter for years until elon musk decided to disrespect my country's law then twitter got suspend here (hell yeah, i'm from brazil) so i decided to join tumblr :D so this a fresh new blog, nice to meet you! <3

[songouda]

i keep thinking about how i'm portraying goku while shipping him with my s/i and i feel kind of bad because i think if i were really in the db world and in a relationship with goku, he would treat me just like he treats chichi (WHICH ISN'T A BAD THING but it's more like he would be kind of unaware of how his actions affect mozz and would constantly run off w/o saying anything and be kind of rude) which makes me sad

but then i remember these are my toys and i get to play with them the way i want to so i get to make goku 100x more love dovey with mozzarella than he actually is with his canonical wife and that while goku might still forget to tell me things when he's running off to save the world and/or train, he would try his best to remember and at the very least would entrust someone else (like piccolo or krillin or chichi herself) to inform me of what's going on. he also hangs out with me allll of the time and never wants to leave my side and we go everywhere together and live happily ever after :o)

[audhdgoku]

OBSESSED That They Have Plates Of Actual Food For Vegeta, Bulma, And Goku, Tea For The Kai's, And Water For Mr. Popo And Piccolo lol

[hanazukashii]

*kicks your carcass* OMMGGG *kicks it again* EWWW

[vanderdyks]

We dont talk enough about the fact that Goku wasnt born strong. Gohan, Vegeta, Broly, Goten, Trunks... all born with innate strength. But Goku... Goku was weak. His entire life growing up, there was ALWAYS someone stronger than him.

For a saiyan to be outmatched by earthlings... ridiculous. But he was. Several times over. Every bit of strength Goku has, he had to work for, train relentlessly for. Its easy to forget because hes so strong now and continiously comes out ahead. But thats the POINT.

Vegeta grew up knowing he was the pride of the saiyan race, born strong, elite, a prodigy. He was hopelessly outmatched by frieza and some of his army, but for a saiyan, vegeta was the strongest (or so he believed).

Because the saiyans put so much belief into power you were born with, power you were destined to have. You either had strength or you didnt. And Goku didnt. So he was third class. His destiny wasnt power, it was weakness.

Its why Vegeta is so constantly thrown off by and therefore obsessed with Goku in the beginning. Because how could someone born so weak be THIS strong? It didnt make sense.

Then we have Gohan, born with incredible hidden reserves of power. Unlike Goku, Gohan was born with potential. His strength was always there. And sure, he had to work incredibly hard to unlock it but its a story arc we keep seeing repeated with gohan. Either its unlocked with anger or someone unlocks it for him (the grand elder, old kai, etc.)

And then Goten and Trunks, both super saiyan by the age of 7. Power came EASY to them. It was as natural as breathing. Goku, Vegeta, and even Gohan all struggled to reach super saiyan. It took a toll. But Trunks and Goten take that power from literal legend and make it a game.

No one has ever had to work as hard as Goku to achieve strength. And you can argue with me on this all day long if you want to. He didnt have hidden powers. There were no hidden reserves, no one to unlock his innate abilities. When he was a child, his unnatural strength compared to human made him special. But for a saiyan, goku was one of the lowest of their race.

Every bit of strength, every morsel of power in gokus body, was built through training. He didnt unlock hidden potentials, HE CREATED them. Its why Goku is the mortal who figures out how to unlock ultra instinct. Because he almost never won a battle purely based off a sheer power, no. Goku had to be smart, needed to be clever. He was forced to hone technique just as much as power, was taught by all his masters the importance of harnessing his mind as well as his body. He grew up meditating, sensing energy, learning not to rely on his eyes, but all his senses. He was training to filter out his own extra unnecessary movements all the way back when he first met Korin and then later again with Kami.

Goku lost fights a lot. All the time. But everytime he lost, he learned. Because he was forced too. Because when Goku lost, there was no backup. He was it. And so he would HAVE to come back stronger, have to find the way to win. Or everyone would be dead.

Maybe its just me but i just think theres something incredibly special about a saiyan labeled as "weak," a saiyan no one bothered to pay any mind to being the first to become legend. He avenged their entire race. That little boy with a tail, born with a power level of 2, became the strongest of them all.

[nekrotiize]

I respect that Toriyama was not fond of writing romance and tried to avoid actively depicting it, tending to instead focus on literally every other kind of dynamic. It made things more fun to watch for me, since I’m a gay aromantic and gravely tired of forced heterosexual romances in media- oftentimes they lack any chemistry but in a way where it’s clear they tried really hard to make it look ideal, thus looping it back around to being worse. Oftentimes forced heterosexual romance plots wind up within the realm of misogyny, with a lot of it being able to be summed up with “good guy wins the girl,” as if a woman is a possession- a trophy to be won and paraded around, rather than a fully realized human being with wants and needs and wishes and dreams.

Toriyama’s vague attempts at writing romance lacked chemistry but in a way that was fucking hilarious. These people are married. I’m supposed to believe that they are married, love each other, and function romantically. I’m supposed to believe that they kiss and cuddle and have sex. They’re bitchy dysfunctional best friends at most. His focus on anything but romance accidentally made it so that the most romantic and sexual tension we see are between Goku and Vegeta. I sincerely do not think the gay subtext was intentional, and it’s deeply funny that it worked out that way. It’s genuinely impossible to ignore just how gay they are, especially Vegeta. What the hell was Toriyama on with Vegeta.

I don’t think it was intentional, the way he was written- so, so dearly obsessed with Goku, above all else. Above his son, his wife, his daughter, above his own life, and the fate of the world- the way Goku and Vegeta interact with and handle each other. I don’t think they were intended to be gay, but do you think Toriyama knew? His editors? The publishers? The animators? The fans clearly knew. The staff side of things had to have known at least a little bit, right?