#This is why less lords have declared for Rhaenyra at this point — because she does not seem to keep laws

[synchodai]

There's a lot that bothered me about the sept scene, but the line that stood out to me most was Rhaenyra saying, "The trespass was not mine."

The trespass was hers, and to say otherwise is to say that she is not Daemon's keeper and queen.

This is feudalism and Rhaenyra is a feudal ruler. If she wants to be queen, she will have to take responsibility for things she didn't personally do but happened under her watch. People swear fealty not just for giggles but because it affords them the protection of acting under some bigwig with a big stick's name. She is responsible for people sworn to her, who fight in her name. If a vassal steps out of line, her not punishing them is her allowing that to happen.

And it's not like they identified the culprit as some guy with tenuous affiliations to Rhaenyra either. Daemon Targaryen was explicitly named. And a talking down to isn't a punishment! Daemon should at least be temporarily stripped of his command or titles. Anything.

Aemond should also have been punished (him and Vhagar being grounded should have been depicted as a punishment imo), but Alicent is less culpable than Rhaenyra in this case. Aemond's liege is Aegon, not Alicent—and thus it made sense in the books that the blacks targeted Aegon's children when they felt Aemond was not justly punished.

Nobles cannot just kill children, have everyone know, and then go to the local brothel next Monday. Kinslaying is the biggest taboo there is. A king's pardon needs to be written and publicly declared — and even then, who the king pardons affects his reputation. Rhaenyra not punishing Daemon will of course make people think Rhaenyra is weak and Daemon the true power behind the crown. Aegon pardoning his brother is also controversial but less so given you can spin it into the "Luke took his eye" defense.

Again, Westeros is a place with laws, but it still mostly operates on Code of Hammurabi logic. Rapists get gelded, thieves get their hands cut off, etc. Nobles can weasel their way out of these punishments through royal pardons or paying ransom but it is their liege lord/lady's responsibility to dispense justice and keep order. It is the very first thing Ned Stark does and teaches to Jon Snow, both in the show and the books.

[mesillusionssousecstasy]

House of the Dragon 2x08: Quotes

"- I could not produce such a coin, even if I wanted to. (Ser Tyland) - Again, you plead poverty. It is hollow stuff from the mouth of a Lannister. Whose very stables and sculleries are carved into a mountain of gold." (Myrish captain) "- Essos is as rich as it is vast. It seems you need us more than we need you." (Myrish captain)

"- You will drive up the price of basic goods. (Ser Tyland) - It is better than starving, surely." (Myrish captain)

"- He deserves no less. (Aegon) - Be that as it may, he has gone in fury to Sharp Point... and laid waste to the whole of the town. (Larys) - Fucking mad cunt." (Aegon)

"- So, what was the fucking point in all this then? (Aegon) - The gods are cruel, Your Grace, but I hope you can see the urgency. (Larys) - No, no. I am the king. Why must I run? (Aegon) - Because the prince regent is going to kill you. You were in danger before, and now, he is thwarted and he is angry. There is no telling what he will do, but we have an opportunity while he is away... (Larys) - An opportunity to push him out." (Aegon)

"- My cock is destroyed, did they tell you that? Yeah. It burst into flames like a sausage on the split." (Aegon)

"- Deamfyre, hatched when the Conqueror was king." (Rhaenyra)

"- Aemond thought himself invincible. He has now discovered he is not. He'll be angry, desperate. He will not stop at burning Sharp Point, and he will not be denied." (Corlys)

"- My ship is no longer the Sea Snake. She was a testament to my own glory. I've given her a new name. The Queen Who Never Was." (Corlys)

"- I would speak honestly with you. (Ser Alfred Broome) - I'd expect nothing less. (Daemon) - I was faithful to the king, your brother. I pledged my banners to Rhaenyra, his heir. I will never serve the usurpers or the whelps of Oldtown, but there are battles to be fought... (Ser Alfred Broome) - voice (whispers): Traitor. - ... and in times like this... Did you hear something? (Ser Alfred Broome) - This place will have you barking at the moon. (Daemon) - While you have mustered an army, Rhaenyra has faltered... turning aside from our judgment, and taking a course, I myself, deem reckless. Rhaenyra will chart her own course, for good or ill. But you are a leader of men. If you declare yourself, your lords will follow you. (Ser Alfred Broome) - I never took you for a turncloak... Ser Alfred. (Daemon) - Rhaenyra's intentions are good. But what we need, in this moment... is a king." (Ser Alfred Broome)

"- Why does everybody hate us? (Helaena) - They're unhappy... and unhappy people look for someone to hate. (Alicent) - We didn't order the blockade. (Helaena) - No, but we are the crown, so they expect us to break it. Drink this. (Alicent) - I was happier before I was queen. (Helaena) - What would you think about leaving this place? (Alicent) - Where would I go?" (Helaena)

"- Made commoners into dragonlords! (Aemond) - Ow, ow! (Helaena) - Aemond! Aemond! (Alicent) - It is a sin and must be punished! (Aemond) - May I remind you your sister is still the queen? (Alicent) - Ow! (Helaena) - As you were once! And you see now what is the consequence of your weakness! We are in peril today more than yesterday! (Aemond) - Was it peril that moved you to burn the town of Sharp Point? Peril or basest fury at your own humiliation? You wish to rule the Seven Kingdoms, but you rain ruin and death upon its smallfolk when you've been insulted because it makes you feel strong and now you seek to corrupt your sister, of all our line, the gentlest and most deserving of your protection. (Alicent) - And who will protect her if she cannot protect herself? (Aemond) - And who will she be if her mind is broken?! (Alicent) - 'Tis no longer our rule that is threatened, our very lives. Would you not have us prevail? (Aemond) - Not like this." (Alicent)

"- Do you think nothing of your oath... Lord Commander? Steward's son from Dorne fucking the queen of the Seven Kingdoms. (Gwayne Hightower) - Do not think I have no shame in me, ser. Desire for women has brought me grief after grief. (Ser Criston) - Then resist it. (Ser Gwayne) - Oh, would that it were so simple. (Ser Criston) - Your brothers in the Kingsguard find a way. (Ser Gwayne) - (...) Or perhaps all men are corrupt... and true honor is a mist that melts in the morning. (Ser Criston) - That is a bleak philosophy. (Ser Gwayne) - The dragons dance, and men are like dust under their feet. And all our fine thoughts, all our... endeavors are as nothing. We march now toward our annihilation. To die will be a kind of relief. Don't you think?" (Ser Criston)

"- I have not and I would not." (Ser Tyland)

"- It does not befit a prince to pout. Do you believe that you are the first noble heir who was not sired by his noble father? Such is the way of the world, Jace, and in resenting it, you only diminish yourself. (Baela) - Easy enough to say. I've heard the whispers the whole of my life. (Jace) - Then prove to them that you are worthy." (Baela)

"- I wish to have children by you. (Lohar) - You, you, you want me to... (Ser Tyland) - Indeed. I want you to fuck my wives. (Lohar) - How many wives do you have?" (Ser Tyland)

"- There will be time enough to see which one of us is a coward." (Addam of Hull)

"- When you came here, you were a closed fist. You wished to bend the world to your will. But you've discovered, I think, that... this world will not be governed. There are omens here for those who seek them. You do not scoff? (Alys) - I'm no longer inclined to. (Daemon) - I'm pleased to hear it. Do you wish, then, to learn what is given to you? All your life, you have sought to command your own fate. But today you are ready. (Alys) - It's all a story... and you are but one part in it. You know your part. You know what you must do." (Helaena)

"- Come with me... to Harrenhal? We will lay waste to Daemon and his army. Let our enemy see that we will answer outrage with outrage. (Aemond) - And if I refuse? Will you burn me as you did Aegon? (Helaena) - That is a lie. (Aemond) - I saw it. You burned him and you let him fall. (Helaena) - What you say is treason. (Aemond) - Aegon will be king again. He's yet to see victory. He sits on a wooden throne. And you... you'll be dead. You were swallowed up in the God's Eye, and you were never seen again. (Helaena) - I could have you killed. (Aemond) - It wouldn't change anything." (Helaena)

"- You cannot lead if you do not inspire. (Alyn) - You have been given a position to which all who serve here aspire." (Corlys)

"- Be strong. You know you are just. You must not let the Realm fail to those who care for power more than peace. You must prevail. (Mysaria) - And who pays the price?" (Rhaenyra)

[faiseuse-d-histoires]

Alright, I've slipped. After a long time without being here, I've watched house of the dragon when I thought I wouldn't. I got caught again. Shame. And anger comes again. It may come as caricatural, but I need to vent.

It just makes GoT even worse! For me, it talks of a system repeating oneself, and patting itself in the back for preventing change and opening of views.

What is worse? Supposed immorality (morality being defined by a misogynist society) or hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness? Because that's what the fight between Rhaenyra and Alicent seems to be. Rhaenyra, who's trying to make her own way to be happy and prepare to rule in that society, and Alicent, who conforms, is embittered by that role she has to play, and can't bear to think anyone can choose to do differently. Rhaenyra who talks of intervening to settle quarrels between clans (the part during the council), and Alicent who says "well, let the liege lord settle it on his own, that's not our problem". Rhaenyra, who tries to compromise, and Alicent, who grits her teeth and seethes.

What would have been better? For Rhaenyra and Laenor to force themselves over and over for the sake of an heir? For Rhaenyra (or Laenor, for that matter) to just "lay back and think of England"? For them to be miserable just like Alicent, so she could feel sympathy for them? That's petty, and as absurd as when some said Sansa deserved to be queen because she suffered so and has always acted like a proper lady.

Alicent is an extremist. That's a fact. For her, it is either black or white, either bad or good. She lives in fear, drowns in it. Rhaenyra did not tell her about Criston? She goes full hate, mistrust and fear, and full green. Rhaenyra has children with a man that is not her husband? She makes sneaky comments, and if she is too prude to say the word "whore", her words mean the same, which is all the more ridiculous.

She can't bear Rhaenyra's life, it's literally nagging her, to the point of demanding to see her children just as soon as they are born.

I think then because it means "her sacrifice" was for nothing. She never said no, never tried. She complied, like what was expected of her. Just as her father wished. But instead of resenting the father who pushed her into the king's bed, the fault is "the other woman" who "does as she wishes and spoils it all." There comes the terrible lack of awareness. And now, she is pushing her own children, praising the fact that they are "true-born", as opposed to Rhaenyra's "bastards".

Yet, what is the most important thing? Birth or quality? We see Aegon and Aemond lie, act arrogantly, not even being solidary with one another. Aemond attacks Baela and Rhaena just because they were angry that he took their mother's dragon, then proceeded when Rhaenerys' sons came to insult them, threaten them with mention of Harwin Strong, and prepare a rock to fulfill that threat. Luke and Jake, though there is less focus, are shown trying to bring comfort, then defending their cousins. They are not perfect, even partaking in a joke with Aegon, and then with Baela and Rhaena beating up Aemond. But at least there is a bit of nuance, feelings.

(Lets be clear. Aemond should never have lost an eye. But he shouldn't have acted as he did as well. )

The children are the mirrors of their mothers, that's part of why they can't get along. It is all amplified for them.

Alicent is a victim, but the true tragedy is that she ends up defending the system that made her a victim. She's literally decorating that system with pretty words like honor, decency and justice, when in fact it is narrow-mindedness, misogyny and revenge (even petty ones). A system where only the men are allowed to choose and aren't blamed if they cheat, rape, or other things.

It just seems terrible to me that people who declare to stan Alicent for "her common sense and decency" praise her and hails her, when it is shown her own way will never make her happy, even if her enemies are gone, and she brings division, not unity. She will always be eating her nails in that way. Seems to me she's more the illustration of why that system is terrible for women, and there is a dire need for change.