#Still don't feel that I have her down as a character as consistently as Agatha

[rita-repulsa-ke]

the apple

"Do you want to buy an apple? Ha'f-penny for one, the freshest you'll find." The little girl offered Rio a shiny reddish fruit with a gap-toothed smile.

"Yes I do," Rio said. "I love apples." She fished out a coin and flipped it to the girl, aware of Agatha somewhere behind her, watching the interaction. "They're my favorite." Untrue, but it was a gentle lie to tell a perfectly nice child who would sicken and die in a few years from eating spoiled grain, never to see adulthood.

The girl giggled, took the coin and then glanced at Agatha. "Does your friend want one?"

"No, her friend does not," Agatha snapped, making the girl flinch back. "You're overcharging for a mealy, half-rotten fruit I wouldn't make cider out of."

The girl's eyes widened like she might cry. She turned and fled.

"Mean," Rio said, taking a bite out of the apple. It was perfectly fine, crumbly and overripe in a way she found pleasant, closer to death than life.

Agatha held out her hand imperiously, and Rio handed her the fruit, watched the other woman take a bite, grimace and immediately hand it back. "I don't like children. They're too small and they can't speak properly," she said.

Death had no great gift for foretelling. Her magic was of the green, the cycle, life and death, the natural order of all things. But as soon as Agatha finished speaking, she felt the noose of prophecy loop tight around her neck and the ground disappear from beneath her as the rope snapped taut, choking her with unwanted knowledge. The apple fell from her hand, hit the ground and rolled away while she stood motionless, trying to deny what she had been shown.

"Rio?" Agatha asked, her voice filled with genuine concern and she could only imagine how she must look for Agatha, self-centered creature that she was, to notice her distress.

She did love Agatha for noticing, though. "Ags," she gasped, her voice very small, shaken back to the present, breathless and beginning to tremble.

Tell me more, she begged of the universe. Tell me how it happens. Tell me how to stop it.

It did not answer her, nor did she expect it to. If there was anything Rio knew about the universe, it was that it did not move at her whims. She was nothing more than a tool of the natural order, an incarnation of green magic and the cycle, a psychopomp meant to guide souls to their natural place.

She begged anyway. That was what love was, to know she could change nothing and try anyway.

And then Agatha was there, arms around her, pulling her into a tight, protective embrace, certain that she could shield Death regardless of the cause of her distress, for Agatha had always believed that the universe would bend to her every whim if she merely insisted forcefully enough.

It was one of the things Rio loved most about her.

"What is it?" Agatha asked, warm hand against the back of Rio's neck, gathering, stroking, soothing.

"Tell me you love me," Rio whispered, suddenly frantic with the need to hear it, to be reassured of something she rarely doubted, for all that Agatha hated to say it. "Please."

Agatha pulled a slightly disgusted expression, the same one she'd had upon taking a bite of the apple, but for once, didn't protest or complain about being asked to admit her feelings aloud, a sign of how seriously she was taking this. "Of course I love you," she murmured. Her hand cupped Rio's cheek, meeting her eyes and there was an intensity to Agatha that could drown even Death. "Above all else, my heart, you know that. What is it, what do you see? Tell me and we'll face it together." Her lips quirked in the smile Rio loved so much, the smile of a madwoman who believed with complete certainty that she could do anything she set her mind to.

Rio believed that too.

"It was nothing," she lied. "A small premonition, nothing more." It was one of the few times she'd ever lied to Agatha, but she couldn't bring herself to say the words out loud, for fear of speaking truth into the world. She could tell the other woman didn't entirely believe her, but she only squeezed her hard, pressed nose and lips to Rio's cheek, a wordless reassurance that threatened to crack something in Rio's soul.

"It's all right," Agatha murmured. "I've got you. I'm right here and I do," even now she struggled to say it, but she did manage, a sign of how much she did care. "I do love you so."

Rio pressed her lips to the other woman's hair, fought the chill with the warmth of the person she loved most in the world, but she could not fully suppress the thought that sprung to mind, unbidden and awful, never to be spoken aloud.

Tell you love me now, beloved, for there may come a time when you no longer will.

Want something cute? Try conversations in the dark

Want something older and written pre-finale, but very romantic? Try scars

[a-couple-of-notes]

Many people have already talked about the things that feel off-kilter in this episode--the lack of moons on the door, the aspect ratio not changing, the real quick turnaround from Jen--and I tend to agree. I think there's a good chance this ends up not being what it seems (and Alice hopefully comes back, I love her).

BUT I'm going to operate under the assumption that this was real until proven otherwise. In which case, this was by far the weakest-paced episode, on a macro- and micro-level, but I can sorta see where they're going with it.

Alice tied up her main story last week. I still think they could have found a good narrative past that--what's her identity beyond her mother? She could have leaned into the parallels with Teen, coming into her witchhood. However, in a 9-episode series, I can understand wanting to clear space coming over the halfway mark. So they kill her. Okay, that's a way to do it.

We saw in episode 4 that the coven is capable of true camaraderie and grace toward each other; I can understand the structural instinct to immediately juxtapose that against the selfishness and tension they also carry. Jen's turn was a bit fast, but not totally out of the realm for her character. I don't think she was ever advocating for the coven to kill Agatha (that was Rio), but she has always pointed them toward the most logical, most expeditious solution, with a healthy dose of self-preservation to boot. She shoves everyone out of the way to go down the oven escape route in Ep. 3, she sticks inside the protection circle in Ep. 4, she's always pointing out Agatha and Rio's weird shit. I buy at least the concept that her logical nature, survival instincts, and long-established disdain for Agatha would combine into some version of the attitude we see in Ep. 5.

Billy/Teen could go either way. They've certainly laid the groundwork for the reveal of his identity. His actions are...questionable, but again not out of the realm of possibility for his characterization. Despite what Agatha (seems to?) imply about his manipulations, the episode shows he lashes out after Agatha kills Alice. Not only that, but all the other witches (not just Agatha) move on like nothing happened. Of course he would be angry with all of them! The outburst is emotional, not calculated. I think this was one of the smarter choices in the episode; we've seen that relationship grow in small but consistent ways since Ep. 3. And it lends Alice's death a lot more narrative weight to have a character--y'know, actually care about and change because of it. Sorry, Sharon. (Sidenote: Personally, I'm questioning the song choice at the end credits--like, I get it, big reveal, Wanda Maximoff crown, but the tone and lyrics undermine how much Teen's actions are driven by his friendship with Alice/grief over her death. I don't think sowing doubt over whether he was the villain all along is worth compromising that.)

This is a wild swing of an episode that I don't quite know lands for me, but it's also the halfway point of the show. Maybe none of this is real and all the off-kilter stuff is setting up for something smarter. But if it is real--If they wanted to raise the stakes and shift the tone--this would be the time to do it. (Although I mourn the version of this story where they continued with fun Halloween hijinks, reluctant found family, and toxic gay cosmic entity situationships.) There is a very good chance that the back half of the show justifies and contextualizes the choices in Ep. 5. But without having seen that yet, it's just whiplash.

[wardensantoineandevka]

Someone in the Midst discord has dubbed you Lisan Al Gaib and I thought you should know.

I know that's from Dune, but I don't know anything about Dune, so this is a little lost on me. But judging by some Google searches, I presume this saying I am prophetic.

Well, to the folks in the Discord, my track record is actually only 50-50. I have made a LOT of incredibly wrong predictions in private about this show! But, you don't get to see that because I've only been calling the shots on main that I feel SUPER confident in—and even then I do often call a miss. People don't remember those because it's not as flashy as when I do get stuff correct, but I do get things very wrong. My tendency to only post things when I feel reasonably certain but hold back on theories I very much have that don't met my threshold skews my apparent record. I promise you, I have been often very wrong. It's just the fact that I only post theories I feel REALLY sure on that's giving this perception because you don't see the wrong stuff I've pitched to people I chat with privately.

What also helps is that I post a lot of theories, and I post a LOT of musings that are not formal theories but are simply playing in the narrative space to entertain myself. Sheer frequency and density of posting often means that you'll be right eventually, perhaps more often, by just scattershot method. I like to think I'm trying to be thoughtful and not scattershot (i.e. randomly guessing) with my thoughts on Midst, but the point stands.

I will say though, I AM pleased I connected the moonfall to a bomb threat in the Highest Light, though I did get many of the finer points wrong because I believed the former a practice run—though, we do know that both involve Ledge's inventions. (On that note of me being wrong: I did think that Kozma was a red herring there, and I wondered if Imelda orchestrated it, I just never posted about it.) I AM pleased about pointing at Agatha Ledge.

Let me also take this chance to say, and I've said this elsewhere, it's really because Third Person put down a tight story with a clear thematic arc and really well defined character journeys! We're in the endgame, so all of the pieces are already here in front of us, it's just a matter of trying to understand how they all fit together, and Third Person's efficient, effective, and elegant writing has made it much, much easier to guess. Theorycraft becomes incredibly easy when there's very clear narrative goals. I'm doing very little here, actually.

Third Person has the ability to, as we've discussed it in film school, determine EXACTLY when the audience starts to miss a character or is wondering when a plot point is going to come up again or resolve, then immediately bring that character or plot point back, so I've been simply trying to listen to my instincts on what questions I have or what character I find myself missing or what plot points I go "hey, remember that?" about. If I listen to an episode and I find myself thinking about something, no matter how unrelated, I try to follow that feeling because I trust Third Person as storytellers to be aware that at least some of the audience is feeling that due to how consistently they've circled back to those things exactly when the audience wonders about it. So, it's all on them!

Anyway! This is way longer for sure than you all expected it, but since I'm not in the Discord, thus don't have more regular opportunity to talk with you all, I thought I'd take the chance to give some insight into how I approach and think about all of this where I can! I'm flattered, I promise you that my track record is not actually that clean, it's all because Third Person is telling a tight story, but I am still very flattered!

I'm glad you all enjoy me guessing stuff, and I hope it's fun for all of you subscribers who listen ahead to see me guess stuff and know before I do whether I'm right or wrong. I aspire to be a whole other layer of tension for you all.

[thiscrimsonsoul]

yeah, I too noticed that many fans lost respect for wanda after wv, not so much because of her actions, since it's possible to like characters who do villainous stuff, but rather how she was portrayed. it's ok to say that agatha was manipulating her, that's true. but it's NOT ok to imply that she was the victim in the westview situation. I feel bad for her because she's getting all the hate for the bad writing, but people don't like professional victims. the karenization of wanda was a disaster.

{out of paprikash} Okay... "karenization" is definitely a word that needs exist, haha. It's perfect. But yeah, I get what you mean. I've just been trying to write her in a way that's consistent with how she started and follows some of the comics, and not so much in all the directions they've taken her in the MCU. I mean as far as her personality and dialogue and things that, you're right, make her kindof a karen at times.

I think we can all agree that Wanda has been through a lot, that she and those she loved had been treated unfairly at times, and that she needed help. And we can all agree that Agatha was throwing gasoline onto the fire and lemon juice onto the paper cuts, heh, exacerbating the situation. That still doesn't make it okay for Wanda to enslave a whole town. Maybe she didn't realize she was doing it at first, but there was a point at which she did realize it... and still didn't stop. That's the point for me where she stopped being a victim, or stopped having the potential to be called a victim. If you knowingly continue to hurt others to get what you want, even if your reasons for waning those things are understandable, it's still not okay.

However, I can ignore the noise of the MCU wanting ratings, money, shock value, and all these other things that should have nothing to do with characterization or plot but unfortunately always do nowadays. I can ignore all of that and just try to write the core character with the road she's gone down, but with a much more personality-realistic way for her. But if you're not a writer of fanfiction or rps, if you're not an artist, if you're not someone who can take a scaffold that's provided to you and change it into something you like better or that you feel works better for the character, then I can see how frustrating this would be. I'm sure many fans who don't engage in creative hobbies like that and therefore didn't have outlets to provide alternatives to what they saw in the movies, were just disgusted by the time WandaVision and DSMoM came out and just said screw this. I think that's a shame, but I totally understand.

I would hope that they would take her in a better direction (not better morally, but better in terms of being more true to her character) after this, but honestly, I don't trust the MCU. Like many big production companies, they're focused more on making blockbusters than they are on telling good stories and creative consistent, relatable characters.

[luna-rainbow]

You know, after Multiverse of Madness, I never want to see Wanda again. And it's heartbreaking because she used to be my favorite character, but I just feel that she's irredeemable at this point. They did such a shit job explaining how the Darkhold works that it's hard to use that as a strong justification that she'll ever be able to be heroic again. The most they give us is vague "oh it corrupts people" and "it showed me what I want." So it's hard to see how it can be a strong defense for her actions, especially when Agatha had the book for centuries and didn't go nuts and kill everyone.

She's just so vile and monstrous and cruel throughout the whole movie. I can't see any of the heroic characters in the MCU wanting to be anywhere near her ever again; Strange clearly didn't think she was worth saving as he didn't even try to convince her not to drop the fucking mountain on herself.

And, considering how many fans have outright hated her and refused to give her the benefit of the doubt with Westview, I don't see how any of them will forgive her for killing multiple beloved fan favorites.

It makes me almost wonder if I was wrong in my love and defense of Wanda all these years. That maybe she really always was a monstrous villain and I was just too naïve to see it. That everyone who's hated on her and insisted that she's evil was right and I was wrong to ever love her as a character. I just don't know if my interpretation of the character for all these years was wrong, or if Marvel really has resorted to absolute insane levels of gaslighting to destroy a powerful female character.

Idk man, it just sucks to see how despite the constant touting of "look how progressive we are now!" Marvel is still openly using every sexist and ableist trope in the book to tear down characters that don't fit the white, straight, male generic action hero mold.

I feel like Wanda has always been a very divisive character since her introduction. I don’t think it was ever quite clear whether she knew Strucker was Hydra before she signed up? From memory, Strucker was operating as SHIELD in Sokovia, and was encouraging the local rebels (the twins being part of them) to destabilise the country. But I think a lot of fans remember her as choosing to join Hydra.

A lot of fans are also very coloured by their biases. Wanda has faced up against Tony multiple times, as you can imagine a lot of Tony fans dislike her. A lot of people also think she’s let off too easily? Which I tend to disagree with. There’s a saying — “you use a contribution to pay for a mistake”. That’s what Wanda was doing in CACW, she was using her powers to try and help people to make up for the mistakes she made in her youth. At the end of her series she apologised to the town, reversed her spell and put herself into exile. I still see people calling for her head though, so I think there’s no pleasing some people.

I feel like a lot of MCU stans also…refuse to look at the MCU as a story by itself but keep drawing the comics into it, with disregard to what that actually means to character consistency in the MCU. When I pointed out to my friend that it didn’t make sense for Wanda to go that way after her whole series of dealing with her grief, she just shrugged and said “yeah but Wanda is a villain in the comics and she had the House of M story” — I don’t know the accuracy of that but that’s certainly the sort of stuff that gets thrown about a lot on MCU hype sites like screenrant.

I think I’ve grown pretty good at ignoring MCU canon these days. And I think that’s what you have to do. I’ve seen a lot of support for Wanda though, even if it’s along the lines of “she’s hot while murdering people”. It’s sad because I think the series did an amazing job at fleshing out her character and lending credence to her vulnerability. She’s someone orphaned at a young age and grew up with a war, there is a lot of trauma and loss and misguided naïveté guiding her actions. I don’t think Wanda has ever been intentionally selfish or evil, which is why DSMoM is disappointing for her story.