#St5 speculation

[itswhatyougive]

This is how #feywildgate can win

Silly idea, what if Mike and Will’s first kiss causes it to rain for the first time in the Upside Down?

[reo-bylerwagon]

reminder that the boys won't be safe at school in season 5

will isn't excluded from this either btw. since he's returning around the time hawkins fell, he's likely to be blamed for "a gate to hell itself opening in hawkins" too, considering talk around town that he is gay.

[cypherheartnokey]

Hello hello, nothing to see here!

Just the Tiger symbolism appearing in high definition while Mike is talking about moving (on), betrayal, jumping into another “game”, things being a bit rough… 🐅

…and then the Tiger (magically) disappearing and turning into a full green poster right as Eddie wins the campaign in his flashback and Mike says he’s in, for a session at least, just to give it a try (try before you deny! 🍍🍕). “Welcome to the Hellfire Club, boys.”

Bychance is gonna go craaaazy 🤪

__________

@ven0moir you might find this interesting!

[conflictofthemind]

Take Me To Church-Gate

A few weeks back, I received a tip that Noah and Finn came into Atlanta for a couple of days to rehearse a scene alone together that never ended up being filmed. This was around the time of the convention that Finn ended up missing in early June (and we initially theorized was for the playground scenes).

I since received confirmation of not only this, but that the rehearsal in question was for a scene at the UD church set. The filming never went through because Noah got an eye infection / sty, so the shoot was rescheduled for early August. If you've seen me mentioning looking forward to August, this is what that was about.

The Eye Infection:

Let me link this post to begin with, barring the 'James' stuff who has proven to be false. I heard about the eye infection and my alarm bells rang immediately - I have a friend myself who wears contacts occasionally and whenever they get sties, they're always caused by the contacts. When has Noah worn contacts before in the show? When Will is being possessed by the mindflayer in Season 2.

The church is an interesting location, because it most definitely has to do with Henry as well. When the original countdown for TFS was being posted, there were images of a church - a location that may have been changed during development. The characters most likely go there as part of the continuing Henry investigation.

And we know Henry was exorcised at some point, but it failed. The sign going into the church is also a likely clue to this, referencing Mark 9:29 - a verse about a failed exorcism.

Conclusion for this part: Will very likely becomes possessed again while in this church. My source tells me they usually only do big rehearsals like this for scenes involving action, too.

My opinion is that Will was never fully exorcised either. I mean, he still has a clear connection to the mindflayer with all the tingles on his neck and the possible literal psychic connection he has to Vecna as well.

It's Byler, Too:

I suspect that Jamie has some part in the scene as well (given they scheduled it during his latest block on set), but the focus is on Will and Mike - being the only two other main characters on set at the time, and the only two rehearsing.

But going back to the church thing.... I wonder what kind of symbolism is created by bringing two gay characters who both have a lot of internalized shame into a location that is honestly the source of said shame? It's honestly not even symbolism. It might just be referenced in plain text. Looking back at that church sign:

"This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer"

"This kind" really evokes the dehumanising language used by homophobes to refer to gay people. And the driven out by prayer part, well that really evokes conversion 'therapy' practices of praying the gay away. So what if this is where Will and Mike finally admit their love for each other, and kiss. And what if that is actually what's able to drive the 'demon' away - gay love.

Especially during the Satanic Panic arc we are sure to see come full circle with the reckoning of the Hellfire Club in Season 5.

An arc which Mike is surely at the centre of as well, being not only a Hellfire Member in the past, but being family to the new disappeared child in town.

And it's not like Mike's love is what's been shown to us time and time again as the way to break Will out of his mindflayer trance. Oh, wait.

Consider it incredibly fanfic-y, but it's on the table now. An action scene at the church involving Byler where Noah is wearing contacts - Will becoming possessed just like Henry again and being made to fight Mike as not only part of the plan to get all of the Wheelers, but also as something that would break Will's spirit permanently. They're all alone with nobody to help save Mike. But the plan is thwarted through the power of love, and in a place that represents a lot of shame for gay men (especially in the 80s) - they finally come together. And it is love that frees Will from his trance. Whether through a confession or true love's kiss. It would be so dramatic and atmospheric.

Additional evidence:

Jopper's Season 4 reunion and kiss inside the Russian church, of which this would be a parallel.

The whole idea of "we kissed, as though nothing could fall. And the shame was on the other side" from David Bowie's Heroes - the shame being in the actual church from the rightside up, but they're alone together on the other side / in the Upside Down.

It is also very likely that this scene is from Episode 5 or 6. I've asked and nobody seems to know which episode it is from, but following the logic of Episode 4 being when the characters enter in groups into the Upside Down, and here Byler are all alone, it is definitely after some time has passed and groups have split further. They're definitely not having any kind of confession in the first half of the season, so this timing sounds positive.

Multiple rehearsals. Noah contacting his acting coach recently for advice. Them even having to cancel an entire shoot because of a sty indicates close-up shots for sure.

Anyway. I'd really love to see people's thoughts on this. I feel like there's even more I could get into in follow-up posts, especially if other people chime in with their thoughts. I have been buzzing about this scene for weeks now. I want to start another gate for old time's sake, so please use #churchgate if you want to make your own posts about this!

[the--last-great-american-dynasty]

what do the ST season 5 episode titles mean?

(or, my interpretation/analysis of what they are referencing for that episode)

THE CRAWL

currently, our biggest clue is the translations they posted for the title because they don’t translate exactly. the french and portugese translations both roughly translate to ‘rescue mission’ while the german translation translates better to ‘the search’. i think this will most likely be referencing the party’s continued search for Vecna. however, based on the opening lines of the script we’ve seen, i think this episode may also focus heavily on Will’s rescue from the Upside Down in season one, but from Will’s pov

THE VANISHING OF….

this one is interesting because they’re clearly keeping the name of who vanishes because they think it spoils something too early. however, i’m still 80% sure that the full title will end up being The Vanishing of Holly Wheeler. based on the bts we’ve seen, this feels like the most logical conclusion

THE TURNBOW TRAP

this one feels the most self explanatory of all the titles. in bts we’ve seen a billboard for Turnbow Land Development & Realty. this episode title is almost definitely referring to a trap the party is setting on Turnbow property. i have a feeling this episode may end up being comparable to The Sauna Test

SORCERER

if this episode isn’t focused on Will, i’ll eat my shoes. i’ve seen arguments saying that this could be referencing El, but when have we ever heard sorcery mentioned in context with her? we have, however, seen Will referenced as a cleric/wizard multiple times during the show thus far. something big will be happening with Will this episode. whether he gets powers or becomes a spy again or gets Vecna’d, this episode will be Will-centric

SHOCK JOCK

according to merriam-webster, a shock jock is “a radio personality noted for provocative or inflammatory commentary”. we’ve all seen stuff about the involvement of the WSQK radio station in bts by now. we’ve also seen and heard lots of stuff in reference to Robin working at WSQK, plus official photos of Dustin wearing a WSQK sweatshirt. there’s a very high chance that the radio station will be playing a large part during this episode. based on the shock jock definition, i think they will be using it as a distraction of some sorts, likely from the government that will be hunting El or even everyone due to their involvement with El. it could also be referencing propaganda from Hawkins and the military about Hellfire and the ‘earthquake’ but that feels less likely

ESCAPE FROM CAMAZOTZ

this feels like a big one. there are two big theories surrounding this one. the first stems from Mayan mythology, where Camazotz roughly translates to ‘death bat’ and is a god associated with death, depicted with the head and wings of a bat. based on this, people believe Camazotz to be the creature in Nancy’s Vecna vision, which will be one of the main monsters the party will be fighting. the second theory, and the one i personally think makes the most sense, references the Madeleine L’Engle book A Wrinkle in Time.

(spoilers for A Wrinkle in Time) in the book, Camazotz is a dark planet that has been consumed by The Black Thing and is now under the control of IT. the people of Camazotz now operate under a hive-mind, as IT uses it’s telepathic abilities to hypnotize and control the inhabitants of Camazotz. in A Wrinkle in Time, one of the characters, Charles Wallace, allows himself to be hypnotized by IT in order to find his missing father. they are successful in freeing his father, however Charles Wallace is stuck on Camazotz until his sister Meg is able to free him at the end of the book.

i have a feeling that this episode will heavily parallel A Wrinkle in Time. in fact, this whole season might. Max is currently stuck somewhere, likely trapped by Vecna, and i think this will be the episode where she is freed from him, possibly at the expense of Will (who will not die, but allow himself to be taken by Vecna, only to be freed later). Max will be ‘escaping IT and Camazotz’… or, rather, escaping Vecna and his mind trap.

further evidence pointing to this theory lies in the importance of time. in A Wrinkle in Time, the characters are able to ‘tesser’ which is explained as traveling the universe by “folding the fabric of space and time”. when they return to Earth after their travels, only a moment has passed. in season 4, we find out that the Upside Down is currently stuck in time on the day Will went missing. i don’t see this just being a coincidence. not to mention that Ross Duffer also posted a picture of a copy of the book on instagram in his Weeks 3-4 filming post for season 5. AND we’ve seen bts photos of poster boards referencing A Wrinkle in Time likely hanging in Hawkins High. there’s just too much evidence for there not to be parallels this season

THE BRIDGE

ok, here me out on this one. Dimension X and the Upside Down are not the same place. to be clear, i have not watched The First Shadow, so i am working with more limited info. however, from what we’ve seen, Dimension X and the Upside Down do not look similar. my theory is that El sent Henry/Vecna/001 into Dimension X back in 1979. when we see his perspective of falling into this dimension, it looks incredibly different from the Upside Down we know. odd as this seems, the biggest thing that sticks out to me is the lighting of the realm. the Upside Down is depicted with very dark bluish-gray lighting. however, when Vecna explores this new dimension he has fallen into, the lighting is a yellow-orange and much brighter. he has also fallen into a very rocky terrain, only inhabited by the monsters of the realm, while the Upside Down is a frozen-in-time depiction of Hawkins. so what i believe the title The Bridge will referencing is that the Upside Down is a bridge between Dimension X and the real world. theories have been thrown around that El created the Upside Down when she opened the gate in season 1, or that Will created it as a sort of refuge when he was taken by Vecna. (that’s right, Vecna, NOT the demogorgon. i firmly believe that we will find out that is was Vecna who took Will in the first place this season.) i think that our party is going to find out the Upside Down is the bridge between these two dimensions, and, in order to end the war, they have to destroy the bridge. which leads me to the next episode

THE RIGHTSIDE UP

this episode title is 100% made to parallel the last episode of season 1—The Upside Down. i don’t think anyone will disagree with that. and, of course, this episode will be the end of the Upside Down. Vecna will be killed and the Upside Down be destroyed, breaking the bridge between Dimension X and the real world and ending its connection with Hawkins. the war will end and everything will be corrected, or rather, rightside up.

[teambyler]

My video "A LAWYER'S EVIDENCE that Mike and Will become a romantic pair in Stranger Things" is out!

Many of you have followed me ( @teambyler ) or read my essays analyzing Byler (I've linked some of the most-shared ones below). I am actually also a LAWYER who has a YouTube channel called RONALD OFF THE RECORD, and I just released my big video on Byler! (I also have another YouTube channel with 45K subscribers that I mention in the video)

I'm prepared to put my professional reputation as a lawyer on the line to comment on a piece of science fiction, because goddammit this is important to me! It is not "delusional" to think Will and Mike will become a couple, and there is nothing wrong with you if want it to happen! This is a video essay I've been planning for at least SIX MONTHS, and I put a lot of work into it. Please share, and please leave comments. Enjoy! =D

0:00 Why this video 1:38 Hate for Byler on the internet 10:16 Case for Mileven 15:21 Case for Byler: Starting premises 17:56 If Will were a girl… 25:30 The evidence! 29:05 EXHIBIT A: The Snow Ball 31:34 B: Mike's reactions to El and Will being upset 34:21 C: Season 3 ending montage 39:16 D: Airport reunion 47:51 E: Rink-O-Mania argument 51:28 F: Heteronormativity, audience expectations 58:25 G: Throwing away the letter 59:55 H: 2nd heart-to-heart scene 1:05:43 I: Mike can't say he loves El 1:13:27 J: Platonic reunion 1:15:12 K: Will's role convincing Mike to say "I love you" 1:20:08 L: Effect of the "love confession" on El 1:39:54 M: The Painting Lie 1:43:22 Honorable mentions 1:45:27 Non-diegetic evidence 2:01:23 Actor statements 2:07:01 Season 5 information 2:10:34 NOT how you write an unrequited love story 2:16:07 Why Byler SHOULD happen (queerbaiting, etc.) 2:28:21 A more powerful story 2:35:45 A personal note

I'm now making this my new pinned post, so I'll list a few of my posts here for people to check out.

ADDITIONS: -28:00 On "We should normalize same-sex friends being affectionate, they don't have to be gay," I should have been clearer. HOMOPHOBIA is the reason for that stigma. Straight friends feeling like they can be affectionate in our society HAS to include normalizing LGBT+ people. -1:16:55 I should've said this more clearly: Will reminded Mike that who HE is, HIS unique qualities, make him worthy of love and make El love him, not dumb luck. And Will of course could convey that because Will loves the actual nerd MIke and everything he is. -1:17:06 Mike making El "not feel like a mistake" doesn't fit El, because she says that Mike looks at her "like I'm a monster, too". Nor did she "push you away because she was afraid of losing you". That's Will, not El. Mike felt love because Will was describing himself. -1:52:36 I forgot to mention that, in the original Nina opera, Nina's lover is ALIVE and DOES return. The Duffers changed the story so that Nina's lover does NOT return, to further suggest Mike won't return! -2:35:22 I'm kicking myself for not being more specific about Mike and Will being heroes in more than one way: I think the theme of bullying from s1 will return, with Will (and also Mike) having to face bullying for being boyfriends in Hawkins.

EDIT: I hit 1000 subs, only to discover THIS VIDEO CANNOT BE MONETIZED. ='( I think I put over 100 hours of work in this video, and this isn't sustainable for me unless I get support. This also means I can't make public videos with the same quality -- using show clips and music makes a stronger impact. I've considered deleting and reposting an edit, but that would losing all the wonderful comments and CUTTING OUT THE LAST SCENE. ='( ='( ='( NO. FUCKING. WAY.

So this is what'll happen: future videos NOT use clips and music to the same extent, except versions I post on my Patreon. And I need Patrons because I don't make money as a social-justice lawyer, and rely on that plus YouTube ads. Here's the Patreon link! (Any future video will be clipped, with the full version on Patreon) https://www.patreon.com/c/theruleslawyer

Some other @teambyler posts:

Mike was saying "I love you" to Will

Questions to ask if ever you have Byler doubt

How the Duffers have set Will up to have a happy ending in Season 5

The most heartbreaking way Byler can culminate (and how I predict it will) (I know this is less likely than an "escape from Camazotz" possession scenario, but I still want this to happen =D )

How the Duffers likely will make the general audience AWARE of Byler and CHEER for Byler

-teambyler

[taeiris]

mike didn’t hold back this time

[letterstomichelangelo]

GUYS THIS IS NOT A DRILL

[wenclair-more-like-whenclair]

How can Mike Wheeler be so gay, transparent, and EMBARRASSING?? Please, because why did he go straight to wrestling practice where there are sweaty men all up on each other to look for people to play DND?? He consciously put a poster of a buff shirtless dragon man with a sixpack on his wall and was like "Hope no one suspects that I'm gay." Like, pack it up, Michael. We know what you are.

[michaelwheelerdefiodental]

"Steve will die saving Dustin";

"Eddie will came back from the dead";

"The end of the series will be a Mike and Eleven marriage scene";

"Will gonna end up dead as the series ends".

[lizbetlovesbyler]

us in november 2025

[stevemania]

season 3 remains my literal fav

[nerdflayer]

Mike didn’t even start thinking about eleven romantically until Lucas jokingly teased him about liking her. Mike denied it and after the bullies tripped him then he started showing her interest.

It would be amazing if Lucas ended up being the one to eye what was going on and brought Mike closer to Byler. A cute call back and a full circle moment for them both. But alas what do I know.

[gaysforbyler]

They’re gonna put a milkvan kiss in the trailer to make us panic, I can feel it in my bones

[conflictofthemind]

I think people are warming towards it because of how adorable the situation is but. A lot of people have been skeptical over giving such a big part of the plot to Holly and the rest of these kids being taken in by the military for some kind of experimentation. What you need to understand is that these are more or less plot devices to explore trauma the party faced in Season 1, especially Will and El. And to explore the larger theme of childhood in the show.

Holly is a manifestation of Will’s younger self. Imaginative, sensitive to the supernatural, naive, helpless. She is personally sought out by Henry - just like Will was. Will wants to protect her not just because she’s an innocent child and Mike’s sister, but also as an allegory for him attempting to comfort and soothe the traumatized child within. And protect someone else from what he has been through. Giving her DND character the title of Cleric and creating a callback with ‘The Vanishing of Holly Wheeler’ deepens this connection.

The new kids by large are reminders of how young the party, now teens, were when they started the show. HNL is back ‘nabbing kids and using them for experiments. El and Hopper eventually pick a kid up in their humvee, Robin and Mike go through the tunnels to rescue some more kids from the barracks. This one is more personal to El, given she spent her entire childhood in captivity. In recusing the kids she is rescuing her young self.

Even with Henry. My current belief is that he wants to destroy, then reshape, the world into his ideal utopia (with only children). Cue the multiple Peter Pan references. A Neverland where everyone is a child eternally forever. There are deep cuts too from his life, which I’m sure we’ll explore further. Something he missed out on in childhood and wants to get back. Probably the disruption trauma can bring to a childhood, and the impossibility of giving that time 🕰️ and innocence back.

The entire show also serves as a callback to the (intended) audience’s childhood. An 80s romp that makes every reference it can to something nostalgic.

Will (in my opinion / theory) freezing Upside Down Hawkins permanently in 1983!

The end of the show coincides with the end of the nostalgic escape it brings. The message being: childhood is precious and we should hold onto it in memory, but you have to grow up eventually. You have to accept change. You can’t turn back the clock.

[teambyler]

Will (and Noah) are put through the wringer in the FIRST THREE EPISODES of Season 5

Just saw this nugget looking at the 2023 Variety article about Noah Schnapp coming out.

They gave him the first 3 scripts so he could start preparing. The first 3 episodes are intense for Will and/or challenge Noah as an actor. (I also could've sworn he consulted an acting coach for this season, but I can't find the link.)

At a con in October, Noah said that he has similar acting challenges in season 5 as he had in season 2, when he was possessed by the Mind Flayer.

The first episodes of the season usually set up "the big problems" that the rest of the season resolves. (Think Vecna's first murder in 4x1, and El being bullied in 4x2.)

Anyone who's like me and wants a Will-centered season will get our wish granted, in the FIRST THREE EPISODES.

-teambyler

P.S. Gotta include Noah's Tiktok squeeing about getting the first 3 scripts