#Sam would either be the lightless flame or the spiral

[calibrationneeded]

In tma/spn crossover the Winchester are unknown by avatars of the hunt heehee

I always wonder would they be avatars of the hunt because they’re hunters or the web because of Chuck…

Anyways Cas is an avatar of the lonely/vast

[theanxiousghostartist]

TMAGP 24 Spoilers (theories & reactions)

Pre - Case (Gwen and Lena chat):

So Gwen wants her position back and is swallowing her pride to do it? Ok, I understand she is traumatized, but I don't think that she would go as far as to be super respectful to Lena AND go back to the position that traumatized her... she has a plan. Even if being on the "inside" offers more protections than just quitting, we know Gwem hated the Externals and wants to fight back against them, so why would she go after the job?

I think she is going to act more like Lena in regards to working up to her former position and working in her former position - she needs to be blank, with little emotions, and calm. She is going to be safer on the inside - earning the trust of Lena, her higher-ups, the Externals, ect, then she's going to bring it crashing down. She (with the help of Alice and probably Sam, Celia, and Colin, perhaps Lena as well) is going to go what-Martin-encourged-Jon-to-do-in-season-5 and Gertrude-Robinson style and start trying to get rid of the Externals and stop whatever plan the higher-ups have.

There was static when Lena asked Gwen, "What has changed?" after she said that "[she] will require [Gwen] to be honest." Lena, are you compelling Gwen? Perhaps an Elias-type compulsion (like how he pulled out Daisy's story of her scar) or maybe an Annabelle-type compulsion (placing an idea in her head that ghe truth would be better). Either way, it's interesting!

Gwen was so calm when saying "Thank you, Lena" it was almost frightening. Also the audio glitch when she said it? I love the sarcasm Gwen!/gen

Lena was wary??? (referencing transcript here). Hmmm...

Maybe she's recognizing something in Gwen that she saw either in her younger self or in a former OIAR worker, or perhaps even Klaus?

Case:

(Norris Case)

Patricia Spaulding recently had her son Rupert, of which she does not remember much of the pregnancy or giving birth, who has a lot of similar features to vampires/avatars of the Flesh in TMA (black eyes, long, thin and curly tounge, sharp teeth). Rupert eats from her (literally) every 4 hours (and more), as advised by the "health visitor," causing Patricia to (literally) lose herself in taking care of him. Patricia also attends a mum support group with several other mums, including one named Celia. Patricia starts having hallucinations (auditory and visual) and is eventually consumed by Rupert.

Rupert definitely feels like an Avatar of the Flesh, but the case is also very reminiscent of the Spiral, especially with this "health visitor" and them normalizing Rupert's abnormal behavior and Patricia's abnormal responses. They were also "helping out" with Rupert every day by the time Patricia was consumed.

Theory: This "mum support group" is full of mum's that were chosen to raise Avatars of the Fears that were created in a similar way to Agnes, as "embodiments" of their Fears. Patricia had Rupert, an Avatar of the Flesh, and Celia, who I'm predicting is our Celia, had Jack, an Avatar of the Desolation (who was either created in some way by Agnes, or was created from Agnes (aka the Lightless Flame) to be her successor). The reason why Rupert was "so good" for Celia is because either she is protected by Agnes or Jack in some way due to her connection with Jack or because her "scent" is different (as described by Lady Mowbray), since she is from TMA- verse (or a combination of the two).

Post - Case (Alice, Celia, Sam chat):

Sam is nervous - that makes sense, given that Basira could be a dead end, like TMAGP- verse Teaholding (I'm so sad about that 😭), and like Gertrude appeared to be.

Alice is trying to tell Sam and Celia about Gwen and the externals! Yay communication!!!

Sam, listen to her, please 😭😭

Yay! Celia, thank you for believing her! (Although we know the reason why lol)

"Is it really so hard to believe that something is hunting us back?" - Celia

"Hunting us back" is a really interesting choice of words. So is this Celia admitting to her knowledge of Sam looking for Externals, or Gwen and Lena looking for and attempting to control and utilize Externals, or Celia herself hunting Externals? I'm more inclined to believe that she's acknowledging that she and Sam are "hunting" Externals by looking into the Institute. But the implications...

(obligatory Starkid joke below)

They are definitely something to watch out for in the future.

Sam, PLEASE BELIEVE ALICE!

I feel like this seen is showing Sam's manipulative - side. It's very interesting to see this more front and center, rather than just through petty actions and small comments...

Thank you Celia, for getting these two to come to an agreement!

Post - Case (Basira!!!):

Basira is a deputy headmistress at St. Luke's? Not an officer?

I was really shocked at first, but this does make sense. We know that she is Eye- aligned and values logic (she was so close to becoming an Avatar during the Unknowing when she was using logic to get out of the unlogic). She also has always been more of an academic, being a teacher would make sense. Her boss, Mr. Donaldson, is the headmaster. I wonder if he will be important later on. She's been in her current role for almost 5 years, and this is her 4th educational position, as well as her 2nd position as deputy headmistress (however, there was an audio glitch here, so she could be embellishing her accomplishments here). She formerly held a position at Edgecroft Avademy, which she was nominated for an Pearson Award for. TMAGP!Basira seems to value her work in the same way as TMA!Basira.

She was caught off-guard by Sam's mention of the Institute, and then denied knowing anything about it. Perhaps she didn't have any involvement with it, but maybe a friend or family member did? (Please, I just need to hear Daisy again 😭😭😭)

Of course Celia would ask if Basira had any involvement with the police! She knew her as a police officer in the TMA-verse.

I really like today's episode. I absolutely hate horror involving childen, so I was terrified during the case (which is good! The episodes that really scare me are some of my favorites). It had really interesting implications for Celia and Gwen, and overall, the connections between the TMA and TMAGP universe.