#Rumple and his loved ones always deserved so much better than A&E and this trash show

[gch1995]

Hook/CS Fan in response to me on Reddit that CS ruined this show: As I recall the writers gave plenty of support to CS, even before Nealfire died. You can’t blame one ship for everything that the characters end up doing later.

Me: I do think that a big part of it was A&E and these writers sheer lazy inability in coming up with any sort of new organic character development after two-and-a-half seasons (the Neverland arc), and their total inability to stick to their own rules of magic in favor of their contrived magical prophecies, macguffins, and twists. Recycled arcs (Aesop’s Amnesia) via cheaply shocking, forced, nonsensical, and/or wildly ooc derailment to achieve re-railment through bizarre contrivances and plot twists became a major problem in the writing for every remaining main character that lasted on this show past season three ish. It was not just a problem in the writing with Rumple and Belle post S3 ish, but Emma, Regina, Snow, David, Henry, and even and even Hook, Kitsowitz and these writers favorite, as well. They clearly ran out of story to tell after the Neverland arc, and they didn’t know where else to go from there after they achieved the ultimate endgame arcs they always intended for these main characters to have in a relatively consistent, dynamic, and relatable way from S1-3A. Instead of letting the story unfold in a way that incorporated compelling, organic, and relatable growth from there, they kept trying to retread the stories they had already told for Emma, Regina, Rumple, Belle, Snow, David, Henry, and even Hook throughout 3B-S7 over and over and over again in increasingly contrived, repetitive, and ridiculous ways.

However, I also feel a lot of the injustice done to Nealfire, Rumple, Belle, Rumbelle, Emma, and even Hook himself from 3B-S7 had to do with the writers wanting to prop up Hook onto a pedestal since they were too lazy to actually develop him into a better person, who was genuinely worthy of redemption.

You just cannot convince me that there was any other reason why Nealfire “had” to die than the fact that the writers “needed” for Hook to be in the place of Emma’s main love interest and Rumple’s son in the narrative because the writers were too lazy to develop/redeem Hook organically as an individual character without demonizing Rumple and/or getting rid of Swanfire competition.

If they were good writers then they could have found a way to easily keep Bae alive, while also having CS at the same time. Rumple could either RIP on the show after his well-earned redemption in 3x11, and/or Rumple could have had more time with his son and Belle, while also struggling with this whole “love versus power” thing in a more consistent, in-character, organic, and sympathetic manner from 3B-S6, rather than having him die selflessly to save everyone in the 3A finale.

You just cannot convince me that they suddenly started framing Rumple as a wildly OOC bizarre cartoon mustache twirler villain, who supposedly wanted power for its own sake “because it’s who he was” and “world domination” when he was sitting besides Hook the whole time in 4A, and his big schemes with magic had always been framed as family oriented and sympathetic beforehand, even if they were selfish and shortsighted.

Rumple had just gone through a horrific ordeal with Zelena, and he’d just lost the son he spent three centuries searching for, and A&E the writers pretended it never happened because it didn’t matter to them as writers since it got in the way of how terrible Rumple “had” to be made to look to make Hook look better.

Even more than that, the entire remaining main cast, including Belle his true love, just suddenly began to get away with treating Rumple as less than a human being, but a monster who was unworthy of compassion, emotional support, empathy, mercy, and understanding, even when he reached out for it from S4-S6 now when David used to be buddies with him, and Belle used to tell him that he could tell her anything back in S2.

From S4-S6, no one cared when he reached our for understanding and emotional support about his fears on Once Upon A Hook, including Belle, who was suddenly such a “hero” for needlessly making a choice to recklessly endangering her true love’s life by banishing her crippled husband with nothing for what was supposed to be forever to make Hook look better when just in the episode before of “Family Business” the narrative had made it clear that it was morally wrong for Belle or anyone else on this show to use the dagger on Rumple when it was used in a needlessly cruel, controlling, reckless, and hurtful manner. So why was it suddenly “okay” now for Belle to get deemed as “heroic” and “strong” for needlessly making a choice to recklessly endanger Rumple’s life by forcibly banishing him from his home with nothing when he could have, and almost did, die out there because she left him without any means to protect himself? Why?

Belle forcibly banishing Rumple from his home with nothing was not heroic and strong of her to put Rumple through because she was angry he deceived her. It was a needlessly cruel act that would technically qualify as an act of domestic violence via reckless endangerment of his life by forcibly throwing him out of his home with nothing in real life. She could have even gotten charged with manslaughter via reckless endangerment of his life/abandonment, if Rumple had actually died out in New York because she left him with nothing in real life. So yeah, it was wildly ooc and incredibly fucked up for Belle to banish Rumple with nothing like that. Sure, Rumple deserved to be dumped by Belle for being a shady shit behind her back, and not letting her in on what he was planning to do by taking her and Henry from SB, only to leave behind the rest of the town under a curse cast by Ingrid that made everyone else see the worst in each other. I was expecting and even hoping Belle would dump Rumple for awhile after he deceived her like that, even if Rumple was my favorite character, and Rumbelle was my favorite ship. But to recklessly endanger Rumple’s life by forcibly banishing him with nothing, and then to get written off as “heroic” and “strong” for it in the narrative? Completely fucked up and wrong.

And why was it suddenly “okay” to for the other characters to mistreat Rumple from the end of 4A onwards, including Belle? Was it because Hook became Rumple’s victim in 4A after getting away with being a douche, so suddenly treating Rumple with this bizarre and unfair set of moral double standards was “okay” now.

Hook was literally being no better in this situation than Rumple in 4A when he was the one who needlessly blackmailed Rumple to give him his hand back by threatening to tell Belle about the dagger when a true friend would have just told Belle the truth either way about her newly wed husband being a shady little shit.

You cannot ever convince me that Rumple would disguise himself as Hook to get the dagger from Belle, and that Belle would give it to him, just like that, as if it was no big deal that she could have sold out her true love and her own safety to one of Rumple’s worst enemies.

You cannot ever convince me that Belle would just stand there passively while her “friends” insensitively talked about killing Rumple in 4B instead of defending her true love.

You cannot convince me that Belle would just stay on Hook’s ship when she was fully convinced that it would hurt Rumple if he found out the truth about Hook letting her stay on his ship, sit there and trash talk about him like it was no big deal because of a dream, and refuse to hear him out when he initially tried to reason with her gently when she was in danger from Hyde by verbally bitchslapping him with needlessly bitchy, cruel, and spiteful belittlements about how she and their child didn’t need his protection because she had her “friends” protection because of what a dream said. She basically was acting like his say didn’t matter in their child’s life, so he could fuck off, even before he started losing it. Rumple overreacted with the ship spell, Belle had every right to be wary of him after that in 6A, but she was not a needlessly cruel, petty, spiteful, or stupid bitch.

You cannot convince me that Belle would actually let it slide when Hook let it slip that it would be an “added benefit” for him to get back at Rumple. Belle has self-respect. This was not self-respect or strength. This was Belle deliberately enabling a douche who didn’t respect her or her loved ones, and being a petty bitch to Rumple. Belle is neither of those things when she is in character.

Rumple had lied to Belle in 4A, which was awful, but you cannot convince me that he would ever so much as threaten to recklessly harm her in a needless panic over a dream zygote for a pair of scissors he plotted to use that he’d never been seen using before on the show in the past FTL flashbacks before without looking for any concrete evidence first, doing research, and asking obvious questions about how bizarre and stupid his whole thing was with the baby before losing his shit over it. This was even more ridiculously ooc and stupid than that dumb hat plot he had back in 4A, and at the very least then there was legitimate concrete evidence in flashbacks that he had used it before, and so it was easy to believe he knew what he was doing with it. At least, it made some sense that he wouldn’t want to be controlled again after the fact that Zelena controlled and imprisoned him with the dagger for a year, though the framing of his motives came off as very bizarrely and uncharacteristically cartoonishly evil and unsympathetic.

In 6A, he just decided, “I’m going to take these random scissors from the EQ to brainwash my son to love me to save my family, even though I’ve legitimately never been shown using them before in the past, and this is probably the most bizarre and stupid idea the writers ever forced me to have for the PLOT with magic to cartoon vilify me?”

You cannot convince me Rumple would ever say shit to Belle like “Call it what you will, but everything I do, I do out of love for you” in response to her getting angry over him putting that bracelet to trap her to keep her from attempting to run away their unborn baby in 6x08.

Rumple seemed just fine in the UW after taking back the curse a few weeks ago in the timeline, he had never so much as considered harming Belle even when his heart was almost pitch black and we were supposed to believe this was literally the same dude who wept over her calling him a “Pathetic dog, begging for scraps” in 4B when Regina pulled out her heart to get leverage over him.

Rumple had never tried to use magic to “make someone love them.”

His entire thing was that “All magic comes with a price, but love is free.” He had never been cold or scary to Belle in their present day relationship, and even back in the Dark Castle, it had been increasingly obvious that it was a playful joke the more he fell in love with her, but now they were suddenly framing him as a wildly OOC cold, controlling, restrictive, reckless, threatening, and borderline manipulative deranged jackass? This was literally the entire opposite of five previous seasons and three episodes of established characterization for Rumple, and it was obvious A&E and the writers were deliberately tainting the one last consistently credible sympathetic thing about his characterization in the narrative that they hadn’t ruined yet from S4-S6 with the purity of his true love for Belle from 6x04-6x09 to make Hook/CS look better after 5A.

And I do get that Rumple’s biggest flaw is that he believes he’s unworthy of love, but the writers had flanderdized it to ridiculous lengths now that made him seemingly oblivious to all common sense and obvious solutions to bizarre magical shit and problems when he was supposed to be a mad genuis. Now, he was just acting like a deranged and reckless idiot in 6A.

Yet wasn’t it convenient that they were having Rumple suddenly go off the rails in 6A after how far they had taken CS in 5A the season before, and now Hook was the “good guy” in a “healthy” place with Emma a season later, in spite of still being a douche himself and getting away with it?

And Emma...Don’t get me started on Emma...She started out being a badass, compassionate, selfless, and empathetic heroic young woman who stuck up for the underdog, helped people out, even if she didn’t trust them, and put Henry and her family before everyone and everything else in her life...By the end of 5A, however, she was selfish, petty, and only interested in Hook.

In short, I don’t think that CS was the entire downfall of this show. However, I do think it was a part of it, especially in regards to the character assassinations for Rumple, Belle, Emma, and even Hook himself from 3B-S6 (and even S7), and Nealfire’s death.

[gch1995]

I want to watch new Drama/Fantasy TV series on Netflix and Hulu to get the bad taste that OUAT and TWD left in my mouth.

Here is what I want:

• A show that is more strongly driven by the characters consistently and believably, rather than half-cocked convoluted plots, and/or the creators/writers abrupt, blatantly biased, hypocritical, petty, and unfair preferential treatment of their favorite characters/ships, who they destroy other great characters/ships that they don’t care about as much to prop up their pet characters/ships up onto pedestals that they don’t deserve-

I dealt with six seasons of the continuity and logic of every rule of magic, relationships, storylines, and most of the timeline from S1 getting deliberately retconned left and right more and more inexplicably at the drop of a hat every season afterwards for (oftentimes disappointing) random plot twist convenience, and the writers completely stopped trying in 3B when they broke the rule of magic not being able to bring back the dead and decided “Fuck all the rules of continuity and realism in characterization and organic development in any of our remaining main characters, and fuck any and all sort of sort of storytelling integrity in writing a canon that consistently sticks to its timeline and rules of magic! We’re just going to reframe the entire narrative around Hook’s “redemption” arc and CS by ruining/retconning everyone else’s original characterization and development from S1-3A, and do whatever the hell we want with magic and the timeline on this show now because LOL, BOLD STORYTELLING! We’re really just too afraid to admit that we’re a team of horrible creative writers and show-runners, who didn’t know how to write more than two-and-a-half seasons of satisfying and original character development, who, thus, ran out of good new ideas for what else to do after 3x11, and who, thus,, would have done a lot better just ending the show with that episode because that’s clearly all we could handle before ruining everything that made this show genuinely entertaining to fans in the first place with our plot fuckery and character/ship favoritism!”

I quit watching OUAT after S5, but I still dealt with watching roughly four seasons of Rumple, Belle, Rumbelle, and Emma getting made OOC, and later on, outright destroyed in favor of cheaply emotionally manipulative “Gotcha” plot twists, and A&E and their team of hacks petty and hypocritical favoritism that led them to prop up Zelena, Regina, and especially Hook/CS onto pedestals that they didn’t deserve in their favor by ruining them to make them look better by comparison without really doing much to change them, or making them sympathetic characters in their own right, especially post 3A. I still kept up with the spoilers post S5, so I know about what they did to ruin all my faves to prop up Hook/CS, Zelena, and even the dark half of the EQ some more in 6A, past the point of no return this time around, basically.

It would be one thing if Hook/CS had always been a main character/ship on the show, and Rumple, Belle, Rumbelle, and Emma had always been framed/written as unsympathetic characters and a ship that the GA was supposed to consistently root against from day one. But that’s not how it was set up, no matter what A&E and these writers try to insist otherwise.

Hook was meant to be a guest villain, but A&E and these writers got distracted by him so much so that they decided to make him a regular by setting him up with Emma out of nowhere, having him take Neal’s place in the series, retconned the beauty of everyone else’s original characterizations, developments, and storylines on the show to make him look more “sympathetic” without actually doing anything to build him up that way organically post 3A, and made him the entire lead of the show.

Emma started out as a badass, compassionate, selfless, and sympathetic underdog for the little guy and the main protagonist on the show from day one until they forced her together with Hook, and ruined her to set them up post S3.

As for Rumple, he had always been written as a problematic fave from day one. I acknowledge that he had done horrible things that I could never realistically excuse, but from 1x08-3A there was a deeper sympathetic motive for why that was always explained on screen. He quickly became a fan favorite who the GA quickly sympathized with and rooted for as a sort of anti-heroic underdog, who with had a genuinely beautiful, believable, and consistent characterization and struggle for redemption that we saw, and expected to continue to see regularly once we saw his tragic and unfair backstory, and we learned about his love for Belle and particularly Bae and saw how everything he did he did out of love for them. We saw that he had a bizzarely adorable friendship with David, and we saw that he, Belle, and Neal were always willing to offer advice, compassion, emotional support, and understanding when he brokenly and honestly opened up to them for it by offering it in without enabling his bad choices, mercilessly judging him with negative assumptions without asking questions first, or giving him a chance to open up to them honestly, acting hypocritical, acting like they were so above him and incapable of having their own flaws and making mistakes, or making him feel guilty for not giving up magic for them. Belle had always had the short end of the stick on the show when they made her a regular because she often got fridged for Rumple’s man pain from S2-S3, but they outright destroyed everything that made her a great character to begin with from S4-S6 to prop up Hook/CS, Zelena, and Regina by turning her against Rumple, even when it didn’t make any sense for her to do so. When Hook/CS became the lead of the show, Neal was killed off. Rumple and Belle’s consistently sympathetic and complex original characterizations and development/redemption arcs in the narrative got so horrible butchered, and the two most important relationships in his storyline all got abruptly thrown under the bus and trashed on this show by A&E and these writers for roughly five seasons with bad writing, even in the final season when they decided not to fuck up Rumple’s redemption arc halfway through, just so they could prop up Hook/CS, Zelena, and Regina by shitting on him.

I don’t want to have to deal with watching another TV series where beautiful, complex, and relatable fictional characters and ships are abruptly made OOC, and/or outright destroyed in favor of stupid plot twists. I don’t want to deal with watching another show in which the creator(s), writers, and/or network have Gary Stu/Mary Sue pet characters/ships, who abruptly get unfair preferential treatment from the creators and writers in the narrative on the show with my personal favorite characters/ships getting abruptly, cruelly, and unfairly thrown under the bus for their benefit.

• A show that is run and written by a team of people, who don’t offensively enable, encourage, or casually dismiss ableism, abuse, rape culture, incest, racism, and sexism in the tropes they use in the writing for their individual characters, the relationships between them, the plot devices they sometimes make them use, especially if they let them get away with using them, and the plots they set them up in-

I had to watch every character and relationship on OUAT get tainted in canon with all of these offensively problematic issues in the the tropes in the writing for them in one way or another more and more from day one of this trash show of wasted potential in ways that disgusted me, including all of my faves, such as Emma, Rumple, Belle, and Rumbelle, just because A&E and their team of writers never learned from their mistakes, and refused to do so.

I don’t want to deal with that shit again on another show, or try to justify it, especially not in characters who often don’t get how problematic what they did or said is because the creators and writers behind them refuse to understand how problematic their writing for some of the things they make them do and say actually is in canon, and refuse to address it, no matter how many times the fans call them out for their shit.

I don’t want to have to deal with watching another TV series where beautiful, complex, and relatable fictional characters and ships are abruptly made OOC, and/or outright destroyed in favor of stupid plot twists. I don’t want to deal with watching another show in which the creator(s), writers, and/or network have Gary Stu/Mary Sue pet characters/ships, who abruptly get unfair preferential treatment from the creators and writers in the narrative on the show with my personal favorite characters/ships getting abruptly, cruelly, and unfairly thrown under the bus for their benefit.

• A show that is run and written by people who understand how to portray realistic reactions and fallouts to trauma and untreated mental illness in their characters by acknowledging that it exists and that it happened in the narrative, and allowing them to get help for it when they reach out for it. Instead of pretending that it never happened to vilify a character by refusing to allow them to get help, or emotional support from loved ones, even when they do try to reach out to them for it honestly, or work on being better to constantly make them feel like they have no choice but to revert back to self-destructive behavior, trying to prop up the character who traumatized them, or simply because the characters, who were traumatized in their narrative are the “good guys,” and the “good guys” aren’t allowed to have realistic reactions to trauma and mental illness because they are “strong” and the “bad guys” are “weak” from the ableist show-runners and writers point of view-

I dealt with watching this shit on OUAT for five seasons from season one, and from the spoilers I read about season six and seven after finally quitting, it didn’t get any better because A&E and these writers are hacks.

• A show run and written by people, who don’t make it so blatantly obvious that they are emotionally manipulating you with false hope by dangling a carrot before your eyes, only to abruptly snatch it away with a cruel “shock” value twist in their storytelling that becomes incredibly and disappointingly predictable when dealing with it as a viewer for five to six seasons-

Look, I get it, bad things happen in life. However, it becomes predictable bad writing and cruel storytelling when it becomes obvious that you are being emotionally manipulated by show-runners and writers with false hope for your faves. It becomes predictable bad writing and cruel storytelling when there is an increasingly obvious pattern in the narrative of the types of characters/ships that these writers abruptly and inorganically screw over out of nowhere after giving their fans false hope for them in the narrative, only to deliberately and cruelly screw them over for cheap “shock value, and/or to prop up their faves by displacing all of their shit onto their default scapegoat character through making him or her look bad without actually doing anything to have their Gary Stu/Mary Sue faves truly do anything to prove that they are reformed.

Were D&D and Scott Gimple too stupid to think to think that fans of their shows would ever realize that they often tended to abruptly kill off the purest living cinnamon rolls cruelly and abruptly in their show’s universe every season for shock value out of nowhere after giving their fans false hope on Game of Thrones and TWD?

Were Adam and Eddy too stupid to realize that Dearies/Rumbellers would ever realize that they abruptly and cruelly mostly turned their narrative against Rumple and his loved ones to prop up all their lame ass faves and CS after they killed off Neal and brought him back from the dead to make him an on-and-off-again trickster, even after spending the first two-and-a-half seasons of OUAT building up Rumple as a consistently sympathetic, emotionally complex, and redeemable character on the show?

• A show that is written and run by people who understand how to give their endgame romantic couples and familial relationships realistic, consistent, complex, healthy, in-character, and well-written conflict and resolution-

A&E and their team hacks often lacked the desire and ability to write realistic, consistent, complex, healthy, in-character, and well-written conflict and resolution between their characters, especially in later seasons. The only main living romantic couple, who remained mostly untainted in canon by their increasingly OOC, gross, unhealthy, and unrealistic character assassinating plot fuckery romantic soap opera angst in canon post 3A by S6, was Snowing, and that’s only because A&E and their team of writers didn’t care enough about them to give them any significany screen time, or any interesting storylines post 3A.

[gch1995]

Rumple was always my favorite character on OUAT. I finally quit watching after S5 because I couldn’t stand seeing Rumple, Belle, Rumbelle, or Emma constantly getting thrown under the bus for H00k/CS’s benefit anymore.

I always pretend that the real show ended with 3x11 because that’s the last time characterization, development, or rules on this show made any kind of consistent, hopeful, dynamic, complex, realistic, organic, or satisfying well-written sense for all of my favorite characters and the storyline that didn’t make me want to bang my head against a desk.

I ship “Skin Deep” to the end of S3 canon Rumbelle, and then pretty much just canon-divergent/AU fanon Rumbelle after that point because the canon narrative after Bae’s death as written by A&E and their writers from 3B-S7 pretty much had systematically destroyed every element that originally made Rumple, Belle, Rumbelle, Emma, Snow, and even Henry such amazing, admirable, consistent, credible, emotionally complex, human, healthy, realistic, or relatable well-written characters/ships in the narrative by butchering their original characterizations to prop up H00k, CS, Regina, and Zelena’s undeserved benefit.

Like, even this Rumple who they’re saying got a “happy ending” in canon just because he got to be with Belle again in heaven...Did he really, though? Wasn’t Bae his primary happy ending that A&E and these writers cruelly ripped away from him with his redemption in 3x11 to make him the on-and-off again villain? Why wasn’t he a part of this quest for mortality? Was it really worth all that character assassinating back-and-forth team hero to team villain bs from 3B-S7 when he already got the same ending in 3x11 with a far more consistently, realistically, healthily, organic, hopeful, and satisfyingly well-written, and well-earned journey along the way in the narrative that was always on his side?

Would the original Rumple from S1-S3A with the realistic and complex characterization, who was written as the father first and the love interest second, be okay with himself dying for his wife when one of his children or other relatives were alive? No. Would in-character Belle? No.

I love Rumbelle, I’m glad they got something of a happy ever after, but they should have been more than just each other’s love interests on the show as characters at this point. Gideon should have had more significance in their storylines, and he should have been included in S7 right there. To be honest, I’m going to keep pretending OUAT ended with 3x11 because it’s the last time the show made any sense.

Also, don’t get me started on how they had him say that “taking on the curse was an act of a coward.” No, it wasn’t, not originally when he first took it on to save his son from the ogre wars. It was brave. If he’s talking about the more simplistic second time where he took it back on screen just because, then I guess that could be considered “cowardice.”

It’s just annoying because 3B-S7 Rumple is a convoluted, simplistic, inconsistent, poorly rewritten, recycled, retconned, and redone version of his far superior consistent, original, organic, layered, human, emotionally complex, dynamic, and realistic characterization and redemption arc from S1-S3A.

They wanted us to constantly pretend that the first two-and-half seasons of Rumple’s characterization, development, and redemption arc didn’t exist after so they could constantly resell it as “Finally you were selfless,” or “For the first time you were truly selfless.” Except it really wasn’t because we saw him doing the same redemptive things over and over again, and for anyone who’s a fan of his character it gets old after awhile because we wanted for A&E and these writers to just stick to one redemption arc, not undo it, and either leave his character alone by writing him out of the show after he got it, or taking the time to show us what happened after Rumple gets redeemed with him getting to settle down with his loved ones without constantly having to prove he’s a better man by losing them to give him another way to redeem himself.

In 3A, it felt like a beautiful, bittersweet, and organic Shakespearean ending to a fantastic character on the show. In S7, not only had they ruined both his and Belle’s characters so throughly in canon from 3B-S6 to prop up Hook/CS, past the point of no return basically, but it didn’t even feel necessary after his arc in 6B. Killing off Belle didn’t really “teach” him anything, anyway because he was already ready to give up his curse in the first ten years of their happy marriage together at the beginning of 7x04, long before she died, so they should have just let him have a TLK with her, and have them run off into the sunset with Gideon. It just felt so contrived, cheesy, OOC, ableist, misogynistic, and unhealthily romanticized with the way they ended up doing it, instead thought

Like, it’s not romantic to commit suicide to be with someone who you lost that you loved when there’s no need to, and you have other family members and friends who love you to live for. This show was so tone-deaf, ableist, and gross, tbh.

I  need clarity...

I have recently just finished watching the last season of OUAT. Why was rumple only ever invested in Belle? Where was his son thru the whole season, why did it seem like Regina was the only person upset by his death and why did his friendships lack a feeling of real deepness (Hook, Alice, Regina) .Rumple has always been my favourite character, but there are to many things that I still try to understand about him.