#Ripred and Gregor

[haveihitanerve]

Gregor: I am so lost on what to do, my class voted me class president and I don’t even know how to start

Lizzie: just think like a leader. Ask yourself what Ripred would do and then do that. It’s probably the smartest and most diplomatic course of action.

Gregor:…

Lizzie:… what?

Gregor: you and I have a very different image of ripred.

[yesthefandomfreakblr]

Ripred: (To Gregor) You're a lazy loser. eat shit and die. then you won't be in my way.

Ripred: (standing on the wall talking to the human soldiers) You know the warrior? Yeah. That's my son. He's just like me. He's literally perfect. I made that. sweetest most perfect child in the world and wouldn't trade him for anything. He's handling his rager so well and has accelerated in training beyond what even I thought he could. I could literally not be more proud, my little man is such a badass. Did I mention he's my son??? If anything happened to him I would kill everything and everyone and then myself. That's my boy.

[yesthefandomfreakblr]

Scues me your art of Ripred moved me so deeply I had to-

@yesthefandomfreakblr I really need to work on drawing rat and bat expressions so this was a good exercise, thank you!

[gummybearsings]

I command Gregor for not laughing his head off every time Ripred had him pinned to the ground because rats look so fucking stupid head on. Imagine being an 11 year old child getting threatened by a rat and you look up and all you see is :

Frankly, if it were me, I would have been killed on the spot.

Photo for reference because I love it

[foccaccia]

okay suzanne collins. i love and trust you. you wrote the hunger games prequel, its a movie now, im sure it was pretty good. now do you remember the underland chronicles. can we go back to that. please tell me how gregor is doing. is he okay. pay no mind to the gun i am holding

[haveihitanerve]

okay so firstly- i agree, buuuuuuuut i do have just a few lil notes. just a few. because while i do love lizzard da bomb, i am a hardcore gregor/ripred father/son duo shipper (nonromantically) and just also have some thoughts :p

i agree with a lot of your points and im going to start with the one where gregor doesnt think ripred deserves sympathy because hes an adult and has his shit together. a) we all know ripred do not have his shit together, although we pick that up more through reading between the lines than what gregor tells us anyway the point- yes gregor thinks ripred does not require his "care" if you will, because he is an adult. now, i dont think this is wrong on gregors part- he was thrust into a very adult role at a very young age and not only has to defend his two year old sister who he is very close to from this dangerous and unfamiliar land, but also this bat that he is slowly growing fond of and is bonded to and also the queen and her bat as well that he thinks of as friends and also does not want harm to come to. boyo has enough on his plate as is, and considers ripred to be someone he can count on to take care of himself, and on some occasions him and his friends. B) gregor defo has nothing against offering ripred sympathy, when they first meet he remarks on the pain in the rats eyes and how hardened he seems. gregor has no issues giving ripred sympathy, but he knows the rat will not accept it because he is, like said before, an adult and yknow he and gregor arent on those sorts of terms where he can be sympathetic without ripred biting his head off. again(i mean this with no hate im just like debating your point but sometimes things get lost in typing instead of actually being spoken so just adding this in) when gregor first meets ripred- their first ever interaction- gregor has no idea who this dude is or what he means to them or anything and his first thought when ripred looks at him is "the intelligence, the deadliness, and, most surprisingly, the pain.. he was much more complicated and much more dangerous." (205) he sees ripred as complex and intruiging before they even have their first convo together

then we move onto the convo- firstly- while i can see your point of view, i disagree that gregors stories of ripred would be negative. yes the rat berates him and they dont get along too well at this point in the series, but he still appreciates him. they have been on their quest through the jungle, ripred has been gentle and kind with him, and he trusts the rat. he no longer thinks ripred is going to eat him, except maybe in passing as a joke. of course, in addition to this, i dont think gregor would ever say something too horrible about ripred, even if it is true, because hes telling it to his little sister and he doesnt want her to have more fear than she already does. second- i agree that lizzie choses to see the underland(specifically ripred) with kindness, but thats not to say gregor doesnt either. (and she also has never been there up until this point so its not as hard for her to view it in a positive light, even with everything that happened to her family nothing directly happened to her [im not trying to discredit her trauma or anything but she doesnt have as clear of an image of the underland as gregor or boots or his father do]) gregor has lived among these people, he has fought with these people, he has almost died with these people- he has very many rights to view it in a bad light, but instead he finds the good, choosing to go down there over and over not just to visit his mother but to help his friends, to meet up and play ball games etc etc.

and OMG i loveeeeee this part of your argument yessss with lizzie reading between the lines of gregors stories about ripred/the underland and picking up on stuff that gregor himself doesnt while saying the freaking stories, understanding how her brother and the rat are similar, how she and the rat are similar, how ripred is just trying to protect gregor by teaching him life skills "quick to hide his vulnerabilities from the people he considers himself responsible for" love this quote

also- lizzie is very sweet in giving food and all that- but gregor has a very valid reason for not wanting to give ripred food- the reason being that ripred belittles him and beats him during their lessons and when he feeds him he feels like hes rewarding him for bad behavior (ahhh sorry that sounds too much like a dog and i was reminded of luxa and her goat ripred anyway)

now on the last bit imma be honest you lost me a little bit. "Where Gregor rarely shows any gratefulness for his help and, in fact, rarely views him through a lens unclouded by a deeply ingrained bias against Gnawers, Lizzie is kind. Ripred notices." okay so- the first half yeah okay i understand, gregor doesnt really show active appreciation for ripred. but, he does immediately dig through his pockets for a fortune cookie when ripred complains about hunger, even though he himself isnt that well off with food wise. and ripred complains about it, and gregor apologizes. (of course ripred is just mocking him, but it is gregor showing connection, acknowledging he is hungry and trying to help, apologizing that he doesnt have more. they are connected through their lack thereof) now the second to last sentence i am completely lost on- no offense- 'lense clouded by judgement and bias against rats' umm sorry which? gregor is kind to lapblood, mange, twitchtip, all of which tried to(or almost got him) killed. he brushes lapbloods fur and comforts her over her pups. he(yes he makes a badly timed comment but they had just been mocking his sister and he is nothing if not loyal) he opens the water for mange and makes sure they drink enough. he offers a hand of friendship to twitchtip, even when ripred mocks him and even when she herself snarls back. if gregor has any bias or judgement against ripred, it is purely because of things ripred has done to him(i just realized in defending gregor im really ragging on ripred but honestly until the last book or so he was an unjustifiable dick[well not unjustifiable trauma and all that but still])

now, personally i have absolutely no isses against ripred opening up to lizzie about his family. do i think that maybe he shouldve done that with gregor? yeah definitely. but gregor and ripreds relationship is complex and the point of it is that it grows over the series, and maybe when lizzie arrives they arent at that point in their relationship yet. when ripred tells gregor he can beat the bane and fuck sandwich, do i wish gregor would have said some little gentle comment about his pups and for ripred to reveal a little piece of himself? yes yes i do. but i am ultimately satisfied with the arc gregor/ripred shared together because it is just that; an arc. (also i saw someone post once that ripred purposefully shared it with lizzie so that gregor could hear because he needs to explain himself to the pup, to his pup, and is a trained fighter and master echolocation expert, he knew gregor was awake and he purposefully kept talking, made eye contact with him and made sure he heard him.)

anyways thats all my thoughts sorry you had to read this really long rant but uh yeah :)

Love Is Stored in the Oatmeal Raisin Cookie

On Lizzie & Ripred

The newest take I’m seeing right now, both in the TUC tags and on my “controversial TUC takes” post, is that Lizzie’s relationship with Ripred is unfounded and that the inclusion of it “robbed” us of a softer moment between Gregor and Ripred. I disagree with this take so much that I decided to write an entire essay about my thoughts on the subject. The most common argument I see against Lizzie is that she received Ripred’s affection, as well as his tragic backstory, after being present for a very short period of time, while Gregor has known Ripred for months. At a surface level, this may seem counterintuitive, but when we dig deeper into the characters and their behaviors, motivations, and allegiances, the thematic significance of Lizzie’s role in the story becomes apparent.

First and foremost, let’s take a look at Gregor. I love this kid so much, but I do believe that the core of this argument hinges on his more subtle flaws as a character. Consider this: the entirety of The Underland Chronicles is narrated from Gregor’s point-of-view. What does this mean for our perception of the story? We receive only the context that Gregor has, and we only receive the details that Gregor notices and finds important. Across the series, his understanding of the Underland and its denizens expands, grows, and solidifies. He is twelve by Code of Claw and very much still learning and growing, but some of beliefs have settled by this point.

This is where Ripred comes in. Gregor has more or less made up his mind about Ripred by the end of Curse of the Warmbloods. He wants to lead the Gnawers and will achieve that goal by any means necessary. He’s an ally, but probably not a friend, grumpy and abrasive and untouchable. Definitely not worthy of sympathy, because he can take care of himself. In short, Gregor doesn’t see Ripred as a multidimensional person, as someone with emotions outside of anger and self-importance.

In direct opposition, we have Lizzie. Upon first glance, she might seem inconsequential until Code of Claw, because her character arc is quiet and mostly happens off-screen. She’s anxious about almost everything, and the Underland puts her through a lot of trauma in the earlier books without having ever set foot down there. It took her dad from her when she was only four years old, and when he returned years later, he was ill and severely traumatized. His absence and then his inability to work meant that she grew up in poverty, spending a large portion of her childhood food insecure and without a stable home life. Similarly, the Underland suddenly took Gregor, who by that point had undertaken a parental role in the household, and Boots away on more than one occasion. These traumas were then compounded on in Curse of the Warmbloods, first when her family’s apartment was swarmed by rats and then when Grace, the stable parent and breadwinner, contracted the plague and was unable to return home.

Lizzie’s role in both Marks of Secret and Code of Claw directly opposes the effect that Gregor—and by direct extension, we as readers—expects this trauma to have on her. Lizzie is afraid of almost everything, and the Underland has harmed her directly in the past. She should approach it with fear, maybe even hostility, like Gregor does in portions of the book. Lizzie is not Gregor, though, and her key trait as a character is that she is able to see the world as a whole through different eyes. So she chooses kindness, instead.

This is where the excerpt above comes in. Lizzie has never met Ripred personally at this point, and she really only knows anything about him from Gregor’s stories—which almost certainly don’t paint Ripred in the kindest light. Lizzie sees beyond the surface of these stories, though, and considers Ripred as an entire person, with depth and emotions. What she sees between the lines is up for individual interpretation. Maybe she latches onto Ripred’s insistence that Gregor learn echolocation, a skill that might save her brother’s life. She does pester Gregor about practicing. Maybe she sees pieces of Gregor reflected in those stories about Ripred. A rager who doesn’t quite fit in where he’s from or where he’s fighting for, who can be stubborn and short-tempered and quick to hide his vulnerabilities from the people he considers himself responsible for. Maybe she sees pieces of herself reflected in those stories. Maybe, as someone who has lost pieces of her family, who has only one friend, who has likely eaten less than her share so that others could be full, she finds it easy to spot the humanity, for lack of a better word, in Ripred, like light through the crack under a locked door.

Whatever her reasons—and maybe there are no reasons beyond “he’s a person, too”—Lizzie goes out of her way to treat Ripred with kindness before she ever meets him. She sends some of her own food with Gregor so that Ripred doesn’t have to go completely hungry. She makes sure Gregor knows to share that plate of oatmeal raisin cookies with Ripred. Where Gregor rarely shows any gratefulness for his help and, in fact, rarely views him through a lens unclouded by a deeply ingrained bias against Gnawers, Lizzie is kind. Ripred notices.

This is not a matter of Ripred suddenly opening up to Lizzie for little reason after bonding with Gregor across the entire series. Ripred treats Lizzie differently because she acted differently. Their relationship is not built only on Lizzie’s similarities to Silksharp, but on a history of compassion and respect. It isn’t shoehorned in, it’s a necessary relationship that supports the central themes of The Underland Chronicles—violence, war, and colonialism are cyclical, but the refusal to continue living life based on the biases of the past can break that cycle and bring about a brighter future for everyone.

[who-do-i-know-this-man]

⚠️Vote for whomever YOU DO NOT KNOW⚠️‼️

[prophecyofgray]

"does gregor's family move to virginia?" this "does gregor ever go back to the underland?" that. what about "does gregor spend his adult life sneaking into nyc libraries at night hoping that he'll run into ripred chomping on some books?"

[tanadellatarma]

My FanArt of Luxa from Gregor the Overlander saga was one of (if not THE one) my first art posts (still visible on Pinterest and Google even if I lost my old Tumblr account - yikes!) After years I was finally able to make a whole project about this wonderful saga and I decided to come back to Tumblr and post it here: thank you for inspiring me in those old days 💜 I did a whole "training project" for a dream Graphic Novel: if you enjoy it, share and comment this post 🙏 •► The project: https://tanadellatarma.it/gregortheoverlander/ Fly you hight & run like the river 🦇

[yesthefandomfreakblr]

Well, Red won't let anything happen to him if he's saving him for later.

This is such a funny line. Yeah ripred makes me feel safe yknow when I'm not thinking he's gonna kill me.

[haveihitanerve]

uh @yesthefandomfreakblr your depiction of ripred is my absolute fav and i fricking adore this one specifc pic for so many reasons!!!

ripred is carrying gregor

gregor looks like the tired little child he is and in ripreds arms can be

ripred is so gentle

the size difference

the way ripreds face is showing hes squealing on the inside but being tuff guy on the outside

ripreds scars

everything

the rippling muscles

[yesthefandomfreakblr]

So y'all remember the scene where Gregor brushes lapblood and then immediately uses the brush on his own hair and how fucking huge that was (Of course you do, we all do.)

What about later maybe after the firelands or something or a battle Ripred grooms Gregor the way he would another rat. Brushing it off as keeping the pup from getting infections, but the gesture still stands. Maybe when licking the scar across Gregor's side it tickles and regor squirms/laughs and it turns into just a few seconds of genuine tenderness, pinning him under a large paw and tickling him 'on accident' and telling the kid to knock it off and stay still. After he's sufficiently cleaned up he dumps the kid on the ground/shoves him off and starts cleaning himself up.

[wagon-is-on-fire]

Suzanne Collins will never know the way The Underland Chronicles physically altered my brain chemistry as a 10 year old

[1very1fancy1doilies1]

ripred the rat for my sister's birthday :)

[gummybearsings]

I’ve been working on this off and on for weeks (thanks adhd) and I’ve gotten sick of it sitting in my art folder so have some assorted Ripred drawings ft. Gregor and Pearlpelt

[foccaccia]

i like the Hunger Games a lot but im always gonna be a little bitter it took off when her Underland Chronicles never did. those books were so good and so fucked up. snippets of spoilers for a 20 year old book series for middle schoolers ahead:

cockroaches the size of horses who talk and are actually super chill and great babysitters for human toddlers. these books are the only reason i dont have nightmares about cockroaches anymore

cannibalism happens a lot. at one point a rat the size of a bison says "man go ahead and eat your dead friend, we wont judge" to a spider, who then proceeds to eat her dead friend. everyone but the rat judges.

another rat, who is still relatively a baby, is found later eating his babysitter's liver in an attempt to hide the body.

dude, pandoras death was so fucked up. "wow an island! im starving im gonna have a snack. brb guys" flies a little bit over, is immediately devoured in seconds by bugs and her skeleton crashes into the jungle below

plague book! humans try to commit genocide and blame it on bugs

hey. hey eleven year old. kill this tiny baby screaming for his mother. he sounds just like your baby sister you think just died horribly. kill this baby with a sword. you didnt? you didnt kill a sobbing baby who watched his mother die? we're putting you on trial for treason and will execute you

baby rat gone insane, now 15' tall and leading an army, ripping the head off of his friend/gaslighter, immediately heartbreakingly asking where she went, and then finding the head and accusing a twelve year old boy of doing it

dude gregor is eleven and in the first book willingly leaps off a cliff to his death (despite it being his worst fear) in the hopes itll stop his two year old sister boots from being graphically torn apart and eaten, like he has seen happen to others

thalia's death. they dont just kill unnamed children (they do absolutely kill a lot of unnamed babies onscreen) they also kill beloved named children

"the fireflies had to gnaw ares' claw off of his corpse bc you wouldnt let go of your friends claw. its been almost three weeks and the viscera has dried and glued it to your grip. we cant get it off without breaking your finger. you gotta let go of your friends corpse, twelve year old boy"

twitchtip.

forcing the twelve year old into a prophesied battle where he will die, and making him dissociate so hard for months he blankly allows others to make him cause/be complicit in war crimes

HAHA HEY THE SAPIENT, INTELLIGENT MICE DYING BY THE HUNDREDS SUFFOCATING ON POISON GAS WHILE A TODDLER SINGS A NURSERY SONG ABOUT THE MICE DYING.

the six year old boy losing literally everyone hes ever known and cared for over and over again

just so much violent gore and death for middle schoolers, man. i love it.

hey that was objectively a good and well done ending. and i also loved it. but "hey gregor my husband was in the war. he had ptsd that will never go away just like you" hey hes twelve :( someone help him

prim's death in the hunger games has nothing on the shit collins pulled in the underland chronicles this is like a tiny chunk please read them