#R'gul

[mzminola]

5. A man from a patriarchal society with strict hierarchies growing up in, from that society's perspective, a slow apocalypse. A man who stumbled into the upper levels of that hierarchy as a tween, coming of age with expectations of power over nearly everyone else in his life, and the weight of responsibility for holding fast to the brakes of that apocalypse, with no true hope for reversing it.

Some of his peers had hope, but it was entirely filtered through conviction that a fast apocalypse was coming, and they had a duty to avert it. They had a purpose. Visions of glory. Their enemy was apathy and a natural disaster. Diplomacy? What's that? We'll be heroes!

R'gul understood that without support of the Holds & Craft Halls the Weyr would starve, and saw his peers' actions as fuel poured on the slow apocalypse. Yet he was too burdened by ideas of tradition, his own narrow-mindedness, and disdain for other people, to look for other solutions. To accept help, especially help that involves major change or respect for those lower on the hierarchy.

This man is terrified.

Terrified of the power the outside world holds over the Weyr, terrified of being the one holding the reins when dragonkind dies out, terrified of letting anyone else hold the reins because he's sure they'll make it worse (F'lon was assassinated publicly, and who cared but the Weyr and the Harpers?), terrified of change.

Within the Weyr, he's had very few people above him in the strict hierarchy since his childhood, and by the time Dragonflight starts, no one who will hold him accountable for anything he does within the Weyr. His bronzerider peers enable his worst choices, expecting reciprocity if they're ever in charge.

R'gul is constantly being judged, too. He has near-absolute power, but can lose it easily (thought not at any time; there needs to be a queenflight, which in this era are always several years apart).

He's terrified all the time, and can hurt everyone around him with impunity. So he does. He lashes out both to vent his own temper, and at any sign something may be happening outside his control.

That's R'gul's damage.

i'm bored and want to start a discourse with people who know the canon better than me

what are the duties and responsibilities of a weyrwoman?

are these duties consistent with the expressed attitudes of characters in the text about the powers and abilities of weyrwomen?

are these duties portrayed consistently, in a meta sense, throughout the series? to what extent do primary or secondary character weyrwomen (and goldriders generally) do their duties "on screen"?

how have the duties of weyrwomen changed over the in-universe chronology of the series?

what the fuck was r'gul's damage????

[darkfeanix]

In Which I Read Dragonflight

So after observing references to this "Dragonriders of Pern" series passively for several years, I recently decided to see if it was worth a look. To my immense gratitude, @c-is-for-circinate​ wrote out a very nice explanation and recommendation here. Having now finished the first book they suggested, Dragonflight, I wanted to share my thoughts.

(Also, I've just realised the second book they recommended was Dragonsdawn, not Dragonquest, which is the one I thoughtlessly jumped into after finishing Dragonflight. Oh well, I guess I'll be checking out Dragsondawn next.)

Thoughts under the cut. Spoilers for Dragonflight, and to a lesser degree Dragonquest, naturally.

So all things considered, I did end up enjoying Dragonflight. I really liked Lessa as a protagonist, and F'lar as the handsome man who sweeps in to sweep the protagonist off their feet, even if I did get frustrated with him from time to time.

I loved the dragons. After 10+ years of Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon, where dragons are intelligent but still largely bestial in nature, it was a thrill to read about dragons communicating directly with their riders. I also found it interesting that McCaffrey includes an introduction (prologue? I was listening to the audiobook and don't remember how it was titled) that explicitly goes into the history of Pern as a science fiction setting rather than fantasy. I know that it had that backstory, but I had assumed it was something that would come out over time, not be made plain before the story even started.

To be clear, I'm a huge fan of the worldbuilding. I'm a sucker for stories where society has forgotten its scientific origins and so marvellous achievements of times past come to be regards as magic.

Speaking of times past: was not expecting time travel in this story! Somehow managed to avoid spoiling myself about that until I reached it in the story. I thought it was quite cleverly woven, with serious enough consequences that overuse of it could end up being disastrous. Unfortunately, I did spoil myself regarding its use in the story's climax, but even then, I thought it was set up so well that if I hadn't known ahead of time I think it would have been really satisfied with it.

Other random things of note:

When the story first introduced Fax, and as we learn more about what an awful person he is, I initially found it hard to take it seriously. "What a cartoonish villain," I thought to myself. And then I thought a bit harder and realised we have people like that in the real world; people with that same sense of entitlement, who think they can do and say and take anything with no consequences. After that he felt a lot less cartoonish, and a lot more satisfying when he met his end.

I really empathised with Lessa when she became Weyrwoman and basically got reduced to… well, "woman do what man say, man fight, woman stay behind to look after home". I despised R'gul, and when it was time for Ramoth's first mating flight, I became genuinely worried and half-convinced that he was going to solidify his power by keeping F'lar out of the picture until it was over. I cannot overstate my relief when he was unseated, nor my satisfaction as he was repeatedly proven wrong about his beliefs over the course of the rest of the story.

Speaking of F'lar, by the way, I got really frustrated with him at multiple points. It seemed like all the things about Lessa that made him want her to become Weyrwoman suddenly become a problem for him once she actually was Weyrwoman. Not to mention that it really felt at times like he was blaming her for not knowing enough, when he should have been well aware that R'gull kept her education very limited. It felt a bit like making someone wear a blindfold to your home and then getting angry when they can't name the colour of the carpet.

As stated above, I have started reading Dragonquest, and I appreciate that the time travel solution, though it solved their problems in the short term, doesn't end up being a perfect deus ex machina; there are consequences being felt even seven years later.

All in all, I’m glad I read it, and once I’ve finished Dragonquest, I will almost certainly check out Dragonsdawn.

[rjalker]

"I've warned him often enough," R'gul murmured, shaking his head. "He would never listen."

And I'm supposed to be mad about him saying this lol. He's fucking right.

[benden-red-wine]

R'gul: Lessa, what so you have there?

Lessa, running to F'lar: A KNIFE!

S'lel: No!

@kariachi after the post about knife fights where you suggested that Lessa would try to stab F'lar, I thought you'd like this

[mzminola]

Heeeeeeeeeeeeey guess what's way more bad for your health than obesity? Especially because most of the time the real problem is doctors just telling their patients to lose weight before they'll bother running any tests? BEING REPEATEDLY STARVED.

Guess what F'lon tells Robinton in Masterharper of Pern. Did you guess that it's the bronze riders banded together to first starve the queen dragon? Did you guess that F'lon mentions the next time, they starved Jora too? Do you think it's likely the patriarchal head-up-ass bronzeriders decided to try it some more after F'lon died?

Interestingly, MHoP also shows Jora drinking excessively at the feasts, but nobody bothers mentioning that in later books or very often in the fandom. After all, handsome charming hero Robinton is known for drinking wine all the time, and we can't compare him to her. Or acknowledge that maybe it's a sign of Jora escaping her situation most accessible way she has.

Oh, and in one of the later books Robinton has a heart attack and gets his life saved by a combination of the dragons' psychic hold on him, and a Healer administering a tablet? Shouldn't the Weyr make an effort to have a Healer on hand, since they know if the rider dies the dragon dies, and they're desperate to keep those dragons alive?

Unless, of course, the Weyrleader is a controlling bastard who's also get a complex about "bothering" the Holders, in which case keeping away any outside influences looks like a great fucking idea.

Guess what happens in Dragonflight, when Lessa is a new queenrider with the ability to talk to any dragon she pleases?

R'gul and the rest of the bronzes manage to ISOLATE her enough that after TWO AND A HALF YEARS she DOESN'T KNOW HOW QUEEN FLIGHTS WORK.

The only woman she talks to is Manora. The lowest ranked riders she talks to are the wingseconds. She sees R'gul, the bronze council, and a handful of brownriders. She's isolated. We witness F'lar use physical violence agains her. She doesn't know what questions to ask. No one is telling her anything she could use to make her own choices.

And when she's finally told, in the last few minutes before Ramoth rises, she's come to hate R'gul so much that she threatens to suicide her own dragon if it looks like R'gul will win.

Benden Weyr is a crime scene.

I said in the tags that the Pern fic is a conversation with canon, and it is, overall, but the conversation in Part Two is also very specifically an interrogation.

Because I went into this planning Part Three, which is an AU in which Jora lives and how does that change things for Lessa, but to write that, okay, to write that AU we have to ask how did Jora die?

[labelleizzy]

Who's that cartoonist who does the aliens speaking formally? One comic where one of them's reading & saying "the being is fictional. My anger is real 🤬"

Just finished reading a chapter where no lie, I was planning on joining other characters in a righteous murder: "planning my tripwire and sharpening my knives"

Excellent work, author. (MzMinola on AO3) Now I need to go away from the internet for a bit and calm TF down.

[lemonsharks]

Oh, THAT'S how Lessa avoided the talk

R'gul kept her CONFINED TO HER ROOM.

For TWO YEARS.

Because he is an ACTUAL FACTS PIECE OF SHIT.

So I guess the next question is, how big of a "you mean a hawk's NOT gonna eat me??????" small mammal brain trauma breakdown did it take for her to accept this shit willingly for two years? How much of an ongoing AAAAAAHH was she having, that it took TWO YEARS to figure out that R'gul et al couldn't make her do anything she didn't want to do, because dragon?

Anyway, throw one more into the Characters with CPTSD bucket I guess.

Also, dragons are officially cats with wings, the author is literally dead and no one will convince me otherwise.

[rjalker]

here's the document so far. attempting to go in chronological order with just easy to find crap right now.

Talenth's time

Gold Talenth [Fiona]: 21 (First clutch - sired by Bronze Zirenth [T'mar + Kindan + Lorana]) (this is the soul bonded telepathic polycule)

Gold Kurinth [Terin]: 23 (First clutch - sired by Bronze___?) (I don't know how I've manged to forget her boyfriend's name this fast but I'm lazy right now.)

Green Coranth [Taria]: 18 (First clutch - sired by Blue Tazith [Xhinna)

Green Kisorth [T'rennor]: 15 (First clutch - sired by Brown Ginoth [J'per])

Also clutched at the same time: six golds and three greens. Total eggs unknown.

Green Bemorth [Cliova]: 18 (Sired by unknown)

Also clutched at the same time: 78 eggs from mixed green and gold parents

Ramoth's time

Gold Nemorth [Jora] 10 (Last clutch - sired by Bronze Hath [R'gul])

Gold Ramoth [Lessa]: 41 (First clutch - sired by Bronze Mnementh [F'lar])

Gold Caylith [?]: 34 (First clutch - sired by Presumably Bronze Bamath [?])

feel free to copy and paste or upload to a wiki or whatever.

the number of egg types in each clutch will be included eventually. feel free to volunteer numbers lol.

[threadfall]

Yes! That! She constantly shows bronzeriders and goldriders that aren't suited to leadership (or are outright terrible people, looking at you R'gul). Potential does not equal certainty!

(Brekke I think was another person pushed into a position they weren't suited for through impressing gold, and Jora deserved so much better!)

Taking a break from the meandering of The White Dragon to go read archived material of Anne McCaffrey trying to fight with her fandom about sticking to canon.

(Having roleplayed Pern I can attest that Super Special Rulebreaking Characters whose entire personality is that they Break A Canon Rule are frequently really annoying but Anne. Anne. You're wrong Anne.)

[mzminola]

I’m never gonna be over the timeskip in Dragonflight making it canon that Lessa has lived at Benden Weyr for over two years and only knows the bronzeriders, F’nor, and Manora, not anyone else, isn’t clear on how Weyrleadership is transferred, hasn’t been allowed in the archives, and doesn’t know how mating flights work.

Like that takes some horrifically intense isolation.

[mzminola]

We’re just gonna skip six weeks of time in one scene, it’s fine.

/humming Another One Bites the Dust as I off more MHoP bronzeriders/

[shipfishwrites]

in honor of turnover, remember that this blog is secretly a j'pei, ch'joh, and h'ro stan blog. also a r'gul hate blog. no b-riders allowed except maaaaybe d'ris, also jora can come if the healer says it's ok.

[proserpine-in-phases]

Yeah 99% sure hes waiting for the mating flight. The only Legitimate Way to take control from r'gul and have it accepted by the rest of the Weyr is to claim it through winning the mating flight. Ousting him in any other way would require violence and violence would threaten the lives of not just any involved riders but also their dragons, amd at this point the dragon population is dangerously low and the life of any bronze rider cannot be risked. F'lar HAS to wait if he wants any degree of long term success, and his ONLY avenue of seizing power is through Mnenoth winning Ramoth's fleight. Lessa (and a first time reader) is an outsider to the culture and just doesnt get it

But F’nor! I haven’t realized why he must wait either!

I’m extremely confused by this scene. It introduces wayyyyy more questions than it answers. Why IS F’lar waiting? Why DID it take courage to watch that moment slide by? Is he suggesting it took courage from R’GUL? (Why does anne feel the need to casually mention domestic violence and then never address it? Sigh.)

The obvious answer to why F’lar is waiting (as opposed to seizing power and ousting R’gul as soon as Lessa impressed) is that he’s waiting for the mating flight, but unless this is a continuity error that’s NOT the answer because Lessa has already acknowledged that possibility at least once and even gone so far as to make fun of him for being such a traditionalist.

Anyone have any thoughts on this scene or the general things Lessa is frustrated by here? I’m at a loss

[mzminola]

junpei is now my SON i will not tolerate any more against him. every chapter from here is a'jellan and r'gul-free zone. if junpei is every sad again i *will* be writing spiteful meta and overwrought fixer fic.

This is hands down the biggest reader compliment I have ever gotten on an OC, including the time someone said they wanted to marry the Adrian Pucey (technically a canon character but for the fic purposes basically an OC) in the Slytherin!Harry AU. Like I am verklempt. I keep opening my inbox and making a high pitched squee noise.

/looks at everything coming in the fic/

[mzminola]

Sidenote: I think with a big “sure let’s have everyone as candidates” running smack into “but the goldriders have never contracted their names” could lead to a cultural shift of “contracting your name or not is optional” so there’s men with no contraction, and women with it, and vice versa, and nonbinary riders running around delighted that their name choice isn’t dictated by gender.

c-is-for-circinate replied to your post: c-is-for-circinate replied to your post: ...

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck bronzerider Thella, Min, your brain, YES, god. Can we please get f/f F'lar/Th'lla? Can that PLEASE be our endgame here. (Who the hell is the goldrider they’re both courting/chasing, how do we make this even better? It COULD be Lessa, but it could also be Kylara, or Brekke, or fucking R'gul, or ANYBODY.)

f/f F’lar/Thella kismesis is so good, C, so good.

I mean who the goldrider is really depends on what’s up with the golds in Benden! Because if we keep the canon goldline, Lidith to Feyrith to Nemorth to Ramoth, and keep their canon riders (golds being the only, so far, single-gender Impressing dragons, but that’s just because they’re still isolated and surrounded by women candidates...) then F’lar & Thella spent several years trying to win over Jora (or, more likely, horribly pressure Jora) and now they’re focused entirely on whomever the new goldrider is. So...not R’gul. But a whole bunch of other people are possible!

...Kylara and Thella are sisters now there’s some squick-drama.

Alternatively having women on other colors could mean Jora got poached by a different dragon and Nemorth Impressed someone else so we could have R’gul as her rider, or fucking F’lon, or someone else entirely. Shells, we could have Robinton as Nemorth’s rider.

If Lessa came to Benden, I think it’s her, but if she refused...welp.

[mistystarshine]

I hope you don't mind me jumping in!

Kylara is my favorite character and I have a lot of thoughts surrounding her. But first, a potential solution for Jora. I agree that she deserves better than to be forced to deal with the vertigo and abuse, but I don't want her to lose the chance to impress because of that. Instead please consider... Jora on a white.

Yes, I know, Anne said that Ruth is the only one. But quite frankly, I hate that. All things about making Jaxom the specialist stu to ever walk the face of Pern aside, it is just incredibly unlikely for that mutation to only ever happen once in the history of the planet. Impossible, even.

So. Jora with a white. She's still put under the spotlight, yes, and will doubtlessly deal with some adversity at first, but also... She's not going to be thrust into a leadership position. And more importantly, no one is going to expect a white to fly, especially if we say the white is smaller than Ruth. More specifically, no one will expect the white to fly with her on it, probably not even for short trips down to the Weyrbowl. Which means that there's plenty of reason not to stick her in a super high weyr. Additionally, no mating flights means that it's less likely that she'll end up sticking or stuck with R'gul.

Onto Kylara! I also bending the impression limits without tossing then aside completely. In her case, I'm leaning toward something that Anne actually said isn't impossible, but would be very rare [and she had no plans to write about]. But. Still not impossible.

What if Kylara impressed a brown?

Think about it. A brown does not close her out from leadership entirely, but does make it so she'll have to actively climb the ladder if she ever wants to make it to the top. It does mean she'd face conflict and adversity, but that can spark character growth and interesting developments, maybe even push Kylara to be a little more forward-thinking, ala Brekke. (Maybe even the Weyrleader to Brekke's Weyrwoman, one day? I truly think they would have done well if they'd just worked together.) Then there are personalities. If you get into the color personality stereotypes, a brown could be a solid foil to her, providing a level head and reminder to stop and think things through when her hotheadedness gets the better of her. A brown Prideth may prove to be more of a steadying force than a golden one.

I don't want to make an already long post even longer, but please also consider a role-swap of search. What if Brekke was searched early and impressed Nemorth's last gold, while Ramoth hatched as a green and made Lessa the first greenrider? Brekke becomes the Weyrwoman, but Lessa still brings the oldtimers forward, and man, if a female greenrider from the future wouldn't be even more of a shock than a giant gold...

(Maybe, somewhere down the road, Mirrim gets to become the first female bluerider instead.)

Okay, because I was reading a discussion from like 2008 last night (shut up I’m desperate for content right now) and it’s 6 am and I’m still pissy about the fucking sexism at play, thoughts on the prominent modern goldriders of the original trilogy and their ‘worthiness to Impress’.

As much as I would prefer for Lessa to bond to Ruatha’s watchwher and use him as an in to get the rest of the whers of western Pern to help her aid Fax’s surviving wives in reclaiming their Holds in honor of her cousin’s memory, she did a damn good job with what she had in the way of mental health, support, and training. 8/10, would Impress again though preferably to a wher

Kylara was a dick, but not fucking evil (I swear we had people claiming she’d purposefully chosen a spot Wirenth would fly over so as to kill her in a mating fight). Honestly think Prideth being gold was the biggest problem, she never should’ve had so much power dropped on her, especially not with the lack of training she got due to all the shit going on. 7/10, would Impress her again, but probably make Prideth a green, they’d both be happier

I do so like Brekke, though we never get to see her come into her own as a Weyrwoman, Junior or otherwise, so it’s really hard to judge. She had potential and it’s a shame that got shot in the heart in that mating accident. 8/10, would Impress again if just so that maybe this time we get to see how she could’ve been given time and the room to grow

I trust nothing half the characters say about Jora, given we mostly hear about her from Manora (who took over her job moreorless (I will get back to this)) and from the men of the Weyr (who are actively sexist as shit and would probably have called her a lazy cow if she were missing both legs and an arm), while what little we see of her in person shows a woman who can’t hold her liquor and is chatty but also seems to be a nice, sweet sort. Honestly I’m part of the ‘Jora sounds like she’s got vertigo which is an actual medical condition and probably caused her fear of heights when combined with the location of the Queen’s Weyr’ crowd and refuse to judge her on ‘not doing her job’ until somebody from that period comes out and confirms that they totally brought the work she could do to her so she didn’t have to walk down that narrow, railingless, downward path rain or shine. 10/10, would Impress again, if just out of spite, let the woman live