#Opposite issue happens when you’re being critical of a character based on their canon writing and suddenly you have like

[ftl-faster-than-life]

I will admit to occasionally allowing myself to be a little bit frustrated when people are hating on a character but clearly haven’t actually bothered to read anything with the character.

[itsclydebitches]

TBH I think the whole "You didn't have an issue with this in 'insert x show here' but you have an issue with it in RWBY? What are you, sexist?" thing can easily be defused with a simple, "How did RWBY present this plot-point compared to the show I like?"

Sure, technically Cinder Fall and Darth Maul are the 'same' character, but how are the two presented in their respective shows? Cinder eats up screentime and none of it goes anywhere and gets frustrating. Maul is a relatively minor villain that had one season's worth of attention in CW and then was the villain of a few episodes throughout Rebels before getting killed off.

The only reason someone would be confused as to why people like Maul but hate Cinder is if they just read the two's respective wiki pages.

Really the whole "Your issues with RWBY are just subconscious misogyny" is just some people wanting to slap labels onto others so they can feel validated on not agreeing with their opinions.

Generally speaking, I'm wary of any take that boils down to a single sentence, "You're just [insert accusation here]." Not because such accusations are always 100% without merit—with a canon dealing with as many sensitive subjects as RWBY, combined with a fandom as large and diverse as it has become, you're bound to come across some people whose "criticism" stems primarily from bigotry—but because such dismissive summaries never tackle the problem a fan has pointed out. If one fan goes, "Ruby's plan was foolish because [reasons]" and the response to that is "You just can't handle a woman leader," then that response has failed to disprove the argument presented. The thing about "criticism" based in bigotry is that there isn't actually a sound argument attached because, you know, the only "argument" here is "I don't like people who aren't me getting screen time." So you can spot that really easily. The person who is actually misogynistic is going to be spouting a lot of rants about how awful things are... but very little evidence as to why it's awful, leaving only the fact that our characters are women as the (stupid) answer.

And yes, there is something to be said for whether, culturally, we're harder on women characters than we are men. Are we subconsciously more critical of what women do in media simply because we have such high expectations for that representation and, conversely, have become so used to such a variety of rep for men—including endlessly subpar/outright bad stories—that we're more inclined to shrug those mistakes off? That's absolutely worth discussing, yet at the same time, acknowledging that doesn't mean those criticisms no longer exist. That's where I've been with the Blake/Yang writing for a while now. I think fans are right to point out that we may be holding them to a higher standard than we demand of straight couples, but that doesn't mean the criticisms other fans have of how the ship has been written so far are without merit. Those writing mistakes still exist even if we do agree that they would have been overlooked in a straight couple—the point is they shouldn't exist in either. Both are still bad writing, no matter whether we're more receptive to one over the other. Basically, you can be critical of a queer ship without being homophobic. Indeed, in an age where we're getting more queer rep than ever before, it's usually the queer fans who are the most critical. Because we're the ones emotionally invested in it. The true homophobes of the fandom either dropped RWBY when the coding picked up, or spend their time ranting senselessly about how the ship is horrible simply because it exists, not because of how it's been depicted. Same for these supposed misogynists. As a woman, I want to see Ruby and the others written as complex human beings, which includes having them face up to the mistakes they've made. The frustration doesn't stem from me hating women protagonists, but rather the fact that they're written with so little depth lately and continually fall prey to frustrating writing decisions.

And then yeah, you take all those feelings, frustrations, expectations, and ask yourself, "Have I seen other shows that manage this better?" Considering that RWBY is a heavily anime-inspired show where all the characters are based off of known fairy tales and figures... the answer is usually a resounding, "Yes." As you say, I keep coming across accusations along the lines of, "People were fine with [insert choice here] when [other show] did it," as if that's some sort of "Gotcha!" moment proving a fan was bigoted all along, when in fact the answer is right there: Yes, we were okay with it then because that show did it better. That show had the setup, development, internal consistency, and follow through that RWBY failed to produce, which is precisely what we were criticizing in the first place.

What I also think is worth emphasizing here is how many problems RWBY has developed over the last couple of years (combining with the problems it had at the start). Because, frankly, audiences are more forgiving of certain pitfalls when the rest of the show is succeeding. I think giving a Star Wars example exemplifies that rather well. No one is going to claim that Star Wars is without its problems (omg does it have problems lol), but there's enough good there in most individual stories to (usually) keep the fans engaged. That doesn't mean that they're not going to point out those criticisms when given the chance, just that disappointment isn't the primary feeling we come away with. Obviously in a franchise this size there are always exceptions (like the latest trilogy...), but for most it's a matter my recent response to The Bad Batch, "I have one major criticism surrounding a character's arc and its impact on the rest of the cast, and we definitely need to unpack the whitewashing... but on the whole yes, it was a very enjoyable, well written show that I would recommend to others." However, for many fans now, we can't say the same of RWBY. Yang getting KO'ed by Neo in a single hit leads into only Blake reacting to her "death" which reminds viewers of the lack of sisterly development between Yang and Ruby which segues into a subpar fight which messes with Cinder's already messy characterization which leads to Ruby randomly not using her silver eye to save herself which leaves Jaune to mercy kill Penny who already died once which gives Winter the powers when she could have just gotten it from the start which results in a favorite character dying after his badly written downfall and all of it ends with Jaune following our four woman team onto the magical island... and that's just two episodes. The mistakes snowball. RWBY's writing is broken in numerous ways and that's what fans keep pointing to. Any one of these examples isn't an unforgivable sin on its own, but the combination of all of them, continuously, representing years worth of ongoing issues results in that primary feeling of, "That was disappointing."

Looking at some of the more recent posts around here, fans aren't upset that Ruby is no longer interested in weaponry because that character trait is Oh So Important and its lack ruins the whole show, they're upset because Ruby, across the series, lacks character, so the removal of one trait is more of a problem than it would be in a better written character. What are her motivations? Why doesn't she seek answers to these important questions? Why is her special ability so inconsistent? Where's her development recently? What makes Ruby Ruby outside of wielding a scythe and wanting to help everyone, a very generic character trait for a young, innocent protagonist? We used to be able to say that part of her character was that obsession and we used to hope that this would lead to more interesting developments: Will Ruby fix/update their weapons? Is her scythe dependency the reason why others need to point out how her semblance can develop? What happens if she is weaponless? Surely that will lead to more than just a headbutt... but now we've lost hope that this trait will go anywhere, considering it has all but disappeared. Complaints like these are short-hand criticism for "Ruby's character as a whole needs an overhaul," which in turn is a larger criticism of the entire cast's iffy characterization (Who is Oscar outside Ozpin? Why was Weiss' arc with her father turned into a joke and concluded without her? etc.) and that investment speaks to wanting her to be better. We want Ruby to be a better character than she currently is, like all those other shows we've seen where the women shine. Reducing that to misogyny isn't just inaccurate, but the exact opposite of what most fans are going for in their criticisms.

[phynali]

more spn discussions, just skip this post y’all

 @queerbluebird​ thanks so much for engaging with my post/reply! i really enjoyed reading your response and i have a long reply here.

i’m responding to your post/reply here rather than reblogging it because honestly that thread is - so long. so very long. 

so first - 

i agree there is a difference between entitlement and what i would call, not promise, but instead “narrative follow-through”. A story that completely lacks narrative follow-through does end up feeling disappointing, or frustrating, or rage-inducing, depending on what’s happened. to me there’s a fundamental difference between critiquing a story based on follow-through and bad storytelling (which your post aims to do), versus say, creating hashtag campaigns about a character being silenced because and spreading conspiracy theories about a bad dub (among other things honestly).

and also - queerbaiting totally sucks, we definitely do agree on that.

where we disagree, i think are these two core points:

i do not see the narrative build-up that demands a follow-through. i do not see supernatural as having built up to the story that many destiel shippers seem to think was there, and no one has ever been able to point out to me any actual textual reasons that do craft that narrative build-up  

i fundamentally do not believe that destiel was ever a queerbait. queerbait involves active intent on the part of creators to tease a ship or queer representation in order to draw in $ from queer audiences without ever making it canon, so as not to alienate straight audiences. so, refering to point 1., i do not see the canon text as having laid the groundwork for a queerbait and those romantic tropes, at least not at any point in the past 7 years. and beyond the canon, the writers and producers and jensen ackles all indicated dean was straight, and that they were not writing a romance. if anyone queerbaited the fans, it was misha collins who kept teasing the possibility, and personally i would argue that was irresponsible of him. but that’s a different discussion altogether and tends to piss people off when it’s framed as such, because misha means a lot to them and it hurts to see the man who validated their feelings get criticized for the manner in which he validated them. so i’m gonna leave that aside.

beyond that, I want to engage with some of your specific quotes:

Supernatural loves to say “wait for it.” And I don’t think it’s entitled to feel betrayed if an author uses their story to say “wait for it” in order to convince you to stick with their story and then delivers the opposite after you do.

May i ask, where was the “wait for it” with destiel? this ties in directly to the queerbaiting. i indicated in my post/reply that while i see it from cas, there’s been little to no hint of any reciprocation of feelings from dean, and if anything the past 7 or so years have driven the point home that it isn’t happening. i personally am not able to see the “Wait for it” and that was the point of my question. without the “Wait for it”, i also can’t see the queerbait. 

I asked for specifics and while i totally get not having the spoons, you provided a few:

(off the top of my head for Dean though, the mixtape, his response to Cas’ death at the end of 12, subsequent grief arc, and reaction to Cas’ return in the front half of 13 rank highly. His reaction to Lucifer’s prank call in 15x19 might rate, but maybe just because it’s so recent.)

not trying to be unkind here, but i quite genuinely don’t see any of these examples as framing cas and dean in a romantic light, or as hinting at a “what if”. the mixtape is like.... okay, maybe. i had read that as being symbolic of something else, but i can see wanting to read it from a shipping lens. (i don’t however think i’d read it as baiting or “what if” - it was quite textually not framed that way. shipping, 100%, but canon build-up, not for me).

for the other examples -- grieving for someone you consider family? and being happy when they come back? that’s not shippy to me. i mean - contrast the grief he showed over cas’s death compared to his grief over, say, mary? or, less extreme, charlie? and nothing compared to how off the rails he goes when sam is dead or he thinks sam is. so i -- i just can’t see those as creating a narrative that demands a follow-through. and when your friend who is dead calls your phone? of course you hop to the door - i don’t know what is romantic about that. sam would’ve hopped just as quick if “cass” had called his phone instead.

and look - i see what is fun to ship about all that. if i shipped it, i’d be happily collecting these moments with a smile and grinning to myself about how cute they are and much they mean. but shipping it vs. it being romantically framed in the canon are two fundamentally different things. shipping doesn’t imply narrative buy-in or deliberation from the creator.

moving on, you also spoke at length about 15x18:

15x18 made the sort of statement that drew back even people who did exactly what OP said they should do, turning off the TV years ago. It wasn’t a quiet “if you’re still watching, keep waiting,” so much as a shouted “hey we’re gonna do this thing, watch this!”

i guess destiel fans vs. those of us who don’t ship it really see this as fundamentally different. because you discuss that moment as one which requires follow-through, and say that if this were heteronormative m/f love declaration, there would be that expectation of follow-through. not necessarily reciprocity, but more - more conversation, more acknowledgment, more something.

(i mean - if there was more, but that more was “hey i love you too but only platonically, sorry man” would that be better?)

but no - i actually just... disagree with your point on that front. i can see why you feel the way you do and i acknowledge that it can be read as the start of a conversation. to me though -- and clearly, now that the finale is out, how the writers saw it -- that was actually the end of a conversation. the end of, like you pointed out, 12 years. a 12-year conversation that ends in a gorgeous declaration of love, and specifically how love isn’t about being together, it’s simply about being - it’s about the fact that you love someone, and that feeling alone is the most beautiful thing in existence.

to me, that declaration can only be written and interpreted as an ending.  a sacrifice, a declaration, and a goodbye. so - while i kind of expected seeing more people in episode 20 and realize that didn’t happen largely due to covid - i’m not disappointed we didn’t see cas, because that culmination of his narrative (and then knowing he was with jack, after, rebuilding the heaven that he rebelled against and finally completing his narrative circle by fixing all the problems with it alongside the good god he sought to find all along) is kind of perfect. 

and i genuinely don’t think if cas was in a female vessel this entire time that that would change. maybe some audience members would feel differently, but i think many of us would see it for the end it was nonetheless. there’s plenty of stories with m/f ships that are one-sided and that character sacrifices themselves for the person they love, so i don’t see why this would be any different (except the bury your gays issue, but that’s a whole other and very real conversation about media tropes).

moving on to the series finale.

As many people have pointed out in praise of 15x20, Sam is the absolute most important thing in Dean’s life, his priority above anything and everything… And yet there, at the actual end of the world, Dean ignores Sam’s call and instead cries over the loss of Castiel. Dean’s loss of Castiel plays in tandem with the loss of literally the whole world. But we’re not to take that as a promise that Castiel means more to this story, or to Dean, than a couple seconds of wistfulness after the dust settles?

I... yeah. i don’t see what this even is arguing. that dean taking a minute to himself to grieve his best friend, who just died in part because dean decided to go hunt down billie (who was literally dying anyway). he’s hurting. there’s nothing about this that’s a promise - it’s an end. it’s grief. it’s the horror of losing someone you care about, and the silence that comes after. it’s fundamentally human in it’s pain. and we, the audience, are invited to grieve with dean.

so I mean - of course cas means more to this story. of course he’s meant more than a few seconds of grief, after 12 years. but just because that’s the last time we see him on screen doesn’t mean we don’t value his story, and celebrate how it too came full circle.

You mention cas as a sort of avatar for a different potential ending for the brothers, and highlight him representing:

An ending where higher powers stop yanking them around and they get to actually live in the life they’ve built for themselves.

So while i never considered cas an avatar for that, i do think we all wanted the brothers to have their freedom. “finally free.” so we can agree on wanting that end. but we disagree on whether it was delivered, i guess? because i feel it was.

you also talk about what you and many other fans conceivably wanted a happier ending to look like. can i -- i’m going to be totally honest. i have not seen a single person who’s critiquing the end saying “i just wanted sam and dean to grow old hunting together with their dog until they retire together and die of old age.”

would that be satisfying to those who are mad about the end? i personally don’t think so, but maybe my opinion is being coloured by the most vitriolic fans i’ve seen. if sam and dean got to have the life they wanted free of chuck, and dean didn’t die, and they kept going (or retired and opened a bar together!). maybe sam still had a kid, but again because romance wasn’t the point, the wife wasn’t important and they left her blurry still so we could interpret ourselves if she was a wife or a co-parent or a surrogate or what. maybe dean has a kid too, with a similar question-mark-wife. maybe we get a few images of them having a holiday with jodie and the girls. and then getting to heaven together in old age, greeting bobby with a beer, and going for a drive.

would that be an end that wouldn’t cause fandom uproar? i would enjoy it, soft an slightly discordant as it would be to me. i prefer the ending we got, bittersweet and heartbreaking though it was, but i wouldn’t be taking to social media to yell about it if we got a softer epilogue, so to speak.

on the other hand... would that still not be enough, at least not for so many of the angry fans? i’m genuinely unsure. it seems to me that so much of the ire is about destiel itself, even if people are pretending it’s about more and other things than that. not everyone, but like, a big portion of them. which leads me to believe that nothing short of dean and cas at least interpretable as together is what they wanted. if every other single thing about the existing finale was the same except that cas was the one to greet dean instead of bobby, and even with the same basic dialogue, without discussing the confession, but they have a lingering smile, and dean leaves to drive and wait for sam with the promise he’ll see cas later - 

if everything else stayed the same except who greeted dean, i genuinely don’t believe i’d be seeing almost any critique of the finale on my dash. maybe i’m cynical, but that’s where i’m at.

which is part of why i really struggle to believe that people are engaging in good faith when they critique the finale. because i feel like if it offered them either a) everything they’re purportedly asking for but still no cas and zero hint of destiel, vs. b) every other thing they claim to hate stays the same except there’s a wink and nod to destiel - i believe they would take the wink and nod. 

   On to some other things you raised:

But how can you know to walk away from a tragedy if the tragedy says “the end won’t be a tragedy, keep watching” right up until it ends in tragedy?

Oh i Get this. I hate thinking i’m consuming fun media only for it to rip my heart out at the end. i’ve literally - well, i’ve had a very unpleasant and distressing experience of this, actually. so i get it. also the opposite: i sometimes feel disappointed when i’m consuming media that is gripping and intense and painful, but then the end is too easy, too soft and happy?

BUT - supernatural never pretended it would have a happy end? the end was so. much. happier. than i ever expected. the Swan Song end was going to have Sam in hell being tortured by lucifer for eternity. according to something i read which i am fundamentally too lazy to link because who knows if it would have turned out this way but -- kripke was apparently going to have Dean jump in the cage with him at that end, if the series ended on S5? the ‘horror’ ending. completely devastating sacrifice for mankind (sam), and completely devastating sacrifice for his brother (dean). just -- oof. even if that wasn’t the plan and the series would’ve ended as the episode did - sam was still in the cage and cas was off waging war in heaven and dean was living every day knowing he was alive and his brother was being tortured.

i’m sorry if you thought you were watching a happier show. i know how much that hurts. that doesn’t mean the story was actually that happy though. sometimes, it’s on us as consumers to acknowledge we were misreading the media. i’ve had to do this. it’s hard, it hurts, but it helps you consume things healthier. i’ve had to do this growing recently, and i’m better off for it.

regarding the specific manner of dean’s death - that’s really not what my post was about and i’m not gonna address it here. i’ve talked about it elsewhere and so have others, and @lovetincture‘s original post spelled it out beautifully, in how human it was. i have feelings on how and why i loved dean’s death, and why it was the absolute opposite of what Chuck’s ending was and what he wanted (no blaze of glory), but i’ll leave those for another time.

They cast aside all the relationships they’ve built. [...] They lost/walked away from the life and home they built in the bunker. Dean got a season 1 death. Sam got a season 1 life.

I feel that there is a very huge difference between regression and progression when it comes to cyclical storytelling. And that difference seems to be missing from the ongoing discussions i’ve seen about this in fandom.

Coming full circle to season 1 does not at all mean that the development is ‘undone’ or that the story has regressed or that anything has been lost or destroyed. It can mean that, if the storyteller doesn’t know what the hell they’re doing, but in this case i don’t (personally) feel it’s a fair critique.

Dean’s death might parallel his s1 not-quite death from Faith, but the s15 result of that death is night and day. Dean is no longer alone. Dean does not go up to a lonely heaven filled with bittersweet memories, where even his canonical soulmate and him have wide gulfs between the memories they fill their shared heaven with. Dean dies a hunter, but he dies a hunter who literally saved earth and changed heaven and gets to spend eternity with his brother, side-by-side and together without all the pain and miscommunication, and he gets to see his family and loved ones too. he died having literally made the world so much better.

even without that though?

his story comes full circle, but dean’s character development isn’t about his death, it’s about the fact that in the first several seasons dean could hardly admit he cared without acting like his teeth were being pulled. he was too afraid of abandonment to ask for someone to be by his side. he was too afraid of rejection to let anyone in. and in the end? he asks sam to stay. he tells him that he loves him. he pours his heart out and says all the things that 15 years ago were stoppered in his throat, words trying and failing to claw their way free but his hurt and fears were too deep.

dean is free.

the point of dean’s story coming full circle to season 1 parallels was specifically to highlight this incredible development, not to undermine it. he is different. he is free. 

god it makes me tear up just thinking about how happy i am for him despite how gutted i was by that scene??

(i could write a similar analysis for sam, about how he left for stanford to escape his life and how his finale life montage bits were the opposite of that, but honestly this post is long enough already).

Destiel is loosely a part of that promise in the sense that Castiel is a part of that promise. The symbol of free will

You make a super interesting argument about Cas being a symbol of free will. I don’t have much to say about it, because I’m gonna mull it over, because I think it’s kinda cool and I’ve never thought about it.

That’s - all i’ve got. thanks again for engaging. i’m happy to continue the convo if you have questions or want to reblog/reply 

(though my followers might hate me omg, i’ve been spamming long spn meta posts for weeks now, it’s just been so confronting to see the ongoing fan reaction on twitter and how divided it is...)

[boycottyashahime]

Alright, so I’m bad at Tumblr, and though I wanted to just reblog the original post from @strawberrycreampiefluff and put most of it under a cut or perhaps find a way to trim it, I couldn’t find a way to make it work. So, we’re starting a new thread. Here’s the link the other one if anyone reading hasn’t been following the discussion and want to catch up: https://strawberrycreampiefluff.tumblr.com/post/625063196626223104/what-do-you-think-of-this-whole-ppl-shipping

Anyhow, since we discussed this beforehand, I’ll start from the beginning, only working with the storytelling elements from the series, and I’ll leave out the latter part of the post regarding moralizing (which I mostly agree with anyway, so it’s no loss to me).

“I  was trying to convey that considering the methods of storywriting and telling,  it would break the “pattern” Rumiko Takashi built up and lowering the  impact of Sessh character growth he would later experience.  A father-daughter bond is not inferior to a romantic bond, but it  would seem out of place, to have both his father and brother form a  romantic relationship with a human and then Sessh breaking that pattern  by introducing a new kind of relationship-dynamic - when he is the most  crucial character in the series when it comes to demon-human relations.”

I’m still quite unclear HOW the impact of Sesshomaru’s character growth is necessarily lowered from not having a romantic bond with a human. Why is the continuation of this pattern so important, in your view, to the character’s development? From my perspective, introducing a new relationship dynamic into and breaking patterns is actually a good thing in stories - It’s a great way to add variety and a different point of view to a narrative. Having characters take a pattern in a different, unique direction can add meaning in a way the reader couldn’t see coming, give the story unexpected dimension.

And you’ve already said that you and other shippers like yourself don’t see anything romantic while Rin is still a child in the original series, so that is effectively what happened. Since we agree that the relationship wasn’t actually romantic within the context of the original Inuyasha series, Sesshomaru took a love of a human in an entirely different direction than his father or his brother did. Which conveys complexity in how youkai can relate to humans that wasn’t in the established pattern. As a reader, I find that kind of thing fun and engaging, though you may disagree.

“A father-daughter relationship would still put Sessh in a superior position to Rin (as the father), not adding a lot to his character development other than him caring for one other human being.”

I have to wince here, because while yes, technically Sesshomaru is in a superior position to Rin in a father-daughter relationship, the implication here is that this can be compared to the sense of superiority he had over humans as a whole that you referenced earlier. Is a parent-child relationship really comparable to a racist outlook? I feel like these two things are quite unrelated, having two ENTIRELY different connotations from the word “superior”. One is an entirely natural superior position, using one’s greater experience, knowledge, and ability to facilitate the growth and guidance of someone still on their way up. The other is a wholly unnatural and malicious disregard for a person based on superficial features. Sesshomaru’s superior attitude toward humans before he met Rin was not based on a paternalistic concern, but complete disgust and the notion that they were entirely unworthy of consideration. The two connotations of “superior” here are just not analogous in the greater narrative.

“In a romantic relationship, both partners should be equals (anything  other is unacceptable), for this to happen Sessh would’ve had to lower himself  (his pride) to Rins level, since he was the one with the big ego and  humans were regarded as one of the lower creatures of the food chain.”

Again, I think it is entirely possible for Sesshomaru to learn not to regard humans as “lower on the food chain” through a relationship that ISN’T romance, but that aside, this whole notion brings up a question: why didn’t Rumiko Takahashi write Rin into the story as a young adult? We’ve already discussed how romantic implications to the relationship couldn’t exist while she’s still a child in the series, and why Sesshomaru and Rin are definitely NOT equal during the series. So if it was so important for Sesshomaru to be otherwise equal to Rin so he can lower his pride and truly consider her such, why was Rin not written as a fully autonomous adult so we could cut to the chase? It seems that if what you’re describing was really Rumiko Takahashi’s intent, it would have been a lot easier if the girl was already grown up. At the very least, our dear author could have ended the series when Rin was an appropriate age to actually make the point instead of leaving it hanging.

“Doing the exact same thing he criticized his father for, which  for him would’ve been humiliating in the beginning of the series. The  sequel (if you regard it as canon) goes even farther, making him create  his own half demons - the very reason he hated his brother in the first  place. His mother even said he becomes like his father in the strangest  ways - and the only “strange” thing we know about his father was his  romantic relationship with Izayoi.”

Since English isn’t your first language, I’m guessing you’re just mistaken in the map of this sentence, but the word “strange” here is referring to Sesshomaru’s behavior in relation to his father’s. What is strange is how Sesshomaru is like his father, not his father’s ways. This actually makes the opposite point - it seems to refer to the ways in which Sesshomaru is behaving as odd, maybe in relation to a pattern his father fit into.

“That’s why I think it wouldn’t fall apart if we draw the parallel in a wider context as you say, because other characters didn’t have the same starting point  as Sessh. I very much agree with you, that Inuyasha’s platonic bonds  would also count as a dog forming close bonds with humans, but in  Inuyasha’s or Shippou’s case, they didn’t need the same character  development like Sessh, since they had a different attitude towards  humans or “lesser-beings” in the first place (Inuyasha was even past the  stage of lowering himself, also out of romantic reasons btw, since he  was ready to become human for Kikyo).”

I’m curious as to how the parallel and pattern matter if it’s null and void because Inuyasha and the other characters we talked about have different character arcs. Of course they aren’t starting from the same place as Sesshomaru, characters never do. They’re varied and diverse because it would be boring as tar to write them all going through the same issues. My point about the parallel was that even if it could be said that there’s some similarity in how dog YOUKAI form bonds with humans to actual DOGS, it’s not really a good parallel, because there are other “species” of youkai much less friendly with humans doing it too. I’m having trouble understanding what this argument has to do with that.

In reference to the above, I agree, the example characters you cited didn’t have the same level of dismissive racism as Sesshomaru did (I say “same level” because Shippou does carry a bit of prejudice, even as a small child), but when that’s apparent, why is the pattern even relevant? Since the characters aren’t set to all learn the same lesson, their relationships shouldn’t really resemble each other’s in the long run either, should they? Writers use relationships as tools for character development, and they usually want to use the right tool for the right job. Maybe romantic love with a human was right for Inuyasha because he had issues with vulnerability and reconciling his half-heritage. What if SESSHOMARU benefited more as a character from an unconditional bond (free from the conditions of sexual/romantic attraction) to demonstrate to him how even the weakest creature is incomprehensibly valuable for reasons impossible to articulate, and they are worth using his incredible level of “superior” power to protect and defend them? It’s a different kind of humbling oneself than what you were talking about, but I think it’s just as meaningful, and it fits Sesshomaru’s character development neatly into the the original text. It doesn’t require Sunrise make a sequel more than a decade later to wrap up the character development that Rumiko Takahashi meant to do when Rin grew up even though she could have just written her in as an adult in the first place.

“But Rin will obviously not always stay 8/11 years old, she will grow  into her own person and become a woman (while living apart from Sessh),  creating a completely different power dynamic with Sessh. One that would  still be an imbalance, but much different than when she was a child.”

As far as the narrative was concerned, Rin COULD very well have stayed a child forever, though. She was written as a character in a story. When the story is done, so are the characters. You’ve said before and here that Inuyasha is just fiction, and it is, but accepting that means accepting that Rin doesn’t grow up without some prompting. She doesn’t age but through the hand of a creator, fanfiction authors or Sunrise. When you say she’s not going to stay 8-11 forever, what you mean is that actual humans who experience actual time are not satisfied with her age as it stood when the story ended, and actively impose time upon her.

And since applying time to a fictional character is something that has to be intentional, so too do the conditions you mention to create the perfect environment for the ship. The different dynamic that isn’t father-daughter, but still a little bit of not-weird power imbalance. The “lowering” of Sesshomaru’s ego in that specific romantic way (that I’m still not sure I understand, but we’ll go with it). The way in which the romance is developed without either character realizing it so that Sesshomaru can’t be accused of using the power imbalance to manipulate a girl he’s had authority over since she was eight. Returning to what catalyzed the change in Sesshomaru in the first place while carefully treading around the fact that it was built upon an unconditional relationship that now suddenly has conditions on it. That’s a lot of mental legwork to do, which is fine, because that’s part of creative expression. But you have to acknowledge that none of this would be necessary if the pairing were “obvious”.

It certainly wasn’t very obvious to some of us. We came to a very different conclusion, saw everything a bit differently. Now we’re being punished for having a less popular interpretation of this relationship, shut down by SUNRISE and told that we don’t get to have that interpretation, because they’re considered an authority on what is canon in Inuyasha, and they’re taking sides to squeeze more money out of the Inuyasha franchise with a next-gen sequel. It doesn’t seem to matter that Sunrise was never really very good at telling Inuyasha stories, or that next-gen sequels never seem to be any good for lack of stakes and boring plots.

Sunrise’s interpretation is still considered to be more “valid” than ours. And that really hurts. So, if you found yourself wondering why there’s so much vitriol coming from the anti camp, it’s a combination of this, and the fact that they don’t really have the option of avoiding the content they don’t like anymore. It’s kind of EVERYWHERE now.

So, there we are. I don’t want to give the impression from the above that I’m trying to tear apart your arguments to somehow discredit the pairing. Shippers gonna ship, whether it makes sense to me or not. But I did want to highlight how any of the things you bring up can very well be interpreted entirely differently.

Hope you’re doing well, and you did well on that exam. :)

[bbq-hawks-wings]

Really long ask - Part 1: Hi, sorry for this long rant, but I just wanted to vent since I saw this latest story posted on AO3 and I am restraining myself on commenting on their story so I'm just letting my anger out here about it and other issues regarding fan-depiction of Hawks. It's vaguely related to your post on how DabiHawks or Dabi+Hawks stories make it all about Dabi and always made Hawks out to be the one who starts the problems in their relationship or is the one trying to get Dabi's

Content warning: passing mention of r*pe in a fanfiction.

LOOOONG post under the cut.

(Cont.)

Dabi's attentions when it's canon that it's the complete opposite. This latest story that came up in my feed was about Hawks "harassing" Dabi (who apparently has a backstory of r*pe) and Twice helps Dabi works out his feelings. Among the hoards of tags condemning Hawks, they decided to use "Hawks is very uncool in this fic heads up" so that's another one to add to my filters. I think I also have to block the "Dabi Needs a Hug" tags too bc he's always woobified like heck. 

I really want to read stories where Hawks interacts with Twice since they have a bond/drama with each other, but people have been adding Dabi and either making it seem like Hawks has been gaslighting Dabi in their "relationship" or with Twice. I can acknowledge stories where Hawks feels guilty for what he had to do or Twice being anger/betrayed over Hawks' actions since that is actually what happened; but I will not stand for Dabi claiming Hawks took advantage of Twice or Twice and Dabi having feelings for each other with Hawks in the way bc Dabi is a) the one who let Hawks in b) knew Twice is gullible and c) used Twice as bait. Even in the stories that are cute/causal+funny, Hawks is always the one who gets threatened with fire, harsh insults, or guilted into compliance but the seriousness of the first 2 are always brushed off and the third kinda makes me want it that Hawks doesn't have friends bc most people write him as a bad friend who only cares about his own problems (especially the ones that write Hawks like a celebrity/night club person). 

On writing Dabi, his issues always take priority over everything else, his family loves him, and the lov is always chill with him. He's usually written as the fun asshole/caretaker (bc of his big brother status or ablity to cook). Those factors aren't bad by itself, but it's extremely irritating when the writers/artists can give that level of care to Dabi, but just reduce Hawks to a meme who is a workaholic for the government/scared of punishment & not bc he really cares about the people he saves/helps. It's not like I hate the DabiHawks pairing, but the majority of the content (esp the recent ones), are frustrating to read & Hawks' character is usually written in bad out of character extremes. I am really mystified that I'm praying for canon content rather than fanmade most of the time.

Phew! After the back and forth it looks like we got to the end of that! (Or did we?! *Dun dun DUUUUN*) If not, though, feel free to keep the asks rolling. Lol Foxy and I are usually pretty happy to receive as many asks as people want to send even if it takes us a while, individually, to get to it. Now to finally address what you sent.

I find myself in a weird place when it comes to OOC fanfic because on the one hand people can write whatever they want, and I don’t really have a place to criticize them; but also when they blatantly and willingly misinterpret a character so they have grounds to bash on them it also leaves me acutely uncomfortable. I don’t think I’d call it “problematic” as much as a squick? Like, if they’re willing to blow past all the obvious proof to the contrary about their claims of a fictional character just because they hate them, then are they willing to do the same thing to a real person? Usually, those kinds of thoughts are pointlessly extreme, but we know those who unironically and/or unapologeticly call fans of the heroes “bootlickers” so... It’s like, ooc vent fics are also fine; and if you want to rewrite a character to fit the narrative scheme you’ve set up that’s cool as long as its tagged (“ooc [character]” or something) and/or just mention in the a/n that they knowingly and willingly mischaracterized them for the sake of the fic. Just. Don’t. Claim. It’s. Canon.

And speaking of canon, as much as I’m sure Horikoshi knew Hawks and Dabi were going to end up shipped I think it’s obvious that he never was going to canonically write them ending up together, yet here comes the “canon must validate my headcanon” crowd calling him a bad writer because the author had some bigger narrative goal in mind than having two pretty anime boys kissing.

And the worst part to me is, I feel there’s a distinct slice of the DabiHawks crowd missing out on some of the possibilities of this ship by intentionally mischaracterizing them. Like, the aesthetic equal/opposite draw of the ship is phenomenal as it is and I don’t even ship them, but I can see a wide range of possible fics based solely on the principle that they are canonically incompatible!

At the end of the day, Dabi is a dime-a-dozen edgelord - that pain in the butt OC that so many newbie D&D players make that they think is so deep and dark and mature, but is about as cookie-cutter as they come. It’s not that this kind of character is unsalvageable or a hopeless Gary Stu character, just that they don’t often come across as compelling in and of themselves or that they need more than just selfish hatred to carry them through a series. Two kinds of edgelords that can be done well are the “Out of the Ashes” edgelord and “I’ll Pull You Into Hell With Me” edgelord. The first kind recognizes there’s more to life than their sad backstory and getting even and thus choose to aspire to more noble causes - think Joel from The Last of Us. The second recognizes they’re actively doing wrong and come to embrace it - being more concerned with getting what they want than taking the moral high ground - think Frank Castle, aka the Punisher - and even these darker, “unsaveable” kinds of edgelord antiheroes can have redeeming qualities such as meeting and helping a young hopeful and telling them, “I know I’m on the road to hell, so if you want to save yourself you’d better not follow me.”

Dabi actually has what he needs to become the second type right now (assuming he’s Touya) and could even evolve into the first not unlike Kratos from God of War, but that potential can’t be fully recognized until you admit that he’s fundamentally self-centered and a bad person as-is. He may have the tragic backstory complete with justifiable hate at his genuinely abusive father, but rather than using that as fuel to see that never happen to anyone else like it did him - he just wants to get even. He burns people alive, knowing well he’s participating in the same destruction that his father committed to make him what he is now. He doesn’t recognize any of the merits of hero society and is only concerned with burning it to ash. He could use what happened to his family to incite compassion in his heart and take others under his wing, but instead he uses people as a mean to his own ends. He isn’t even proper grimdark - he’s just your run of the mill egotistical megalomaniac with a punk aesthetic.

And that’s still a good character in the grand scheme of things, maybe just not alone! Moreso, it’s a good villain and EVEN BETTER when you put him next to Hawks who is at his core:

Fundamentally Hopepunk!

Hopepunk is about being good and kind as an act of rebellion against a cruel and unfair world no matter how bleak it gets or how badly you’re beaten down. Despite his own cruel past, Hawks still has a heart to help others for no other reason than to help them, he constantly changes the odds to save as many people as he can when he’d be given a pass for letting the cards fall where they will, and not only is his aim to “help others” but to make sure that there’ll never be need for heroes again. He’s an active rebel against the system fighting with kindness and goodness, fervently looking and listening for the next opportunity to do good.

In agreement with you, Hawks and Twice are interesting to explore because while Twice is an optimist looking to make the world a better place, he’s still a step or two removed from Hawks’ worldview because Twice refuses to let go of the “family” he found for himself while Hawks is willing to sacrifice himself for others. That dynamic is so interesting, and it’s what made them so initially compatible and subsequently heartbreaking in canon.

And it’s such a disappointment to see this unwaveringly earnest character reduced to “shitty fratboy” so often. For a lot of people newer to his character I can understand the confusion, but there really isn’t an excuse if you’ve been reading the series, and the possibilities for fics with this canon personality are just so much more interesting to explore, especially with Dabi as his sort-of opposite.

For DabiHawks to work well, you have to recognize that something has to give in either of them. Some of the juiciest, most angsty content is when you have two characters grow close together over commonalities only to be reminded that despite everything else they share, that One Thing will always keep them from truly being able to see eye-to-eye. Either Dabi has to grow past his hatred and relearn compassion and empathy, or Hawks has to lose grip of that hopeful vision he has and fall into despair. Both options are good to explore, but both require the acknowledgement that Dabi’s view of the world is fundamentally bleak and selfish, especially compared to Hawks’. For a supposed revolutionary out to change the world for the better whose a diamond in the rough with a heart of gold, that’s not exactly on-brand; and at the end of the day the issue is that some are unwilling to admit that what they wanted Dabi to be is likely not going to happen and they love that fake version Dabi more than they love what Hawks actually stands for which is why Hawks always gets the shaft in the end.

I still personally hold a bit of a grudge against the DaiHawks ship as a whole purely because, as you said, Dabi always seems to take priority over Hawks instead of letting the two build a dynamic together. Hawks is always the one who has to give, and the torture porn some have made him go through to “make the ship work” is downright disturbing to me. Even at its height DabiHawks content completely flooded the Hawks character tags on Tumblr with some of the same problems that have persisted to this day such as emphasizing their aesthetic as opposed to their dynamic and rampant mischaracterization.

Anyway, that’s my long-winded response. What do you think, @autumn-foxfire?

[ravenhilarious]

sometimes I fear that Logan is becoming the Hermione of this fandom

elaboration under the cut. this will discuss the Harry Potter fandom, the sanders sides fandom, and some comparisons of my personal issues within them. there are some mentions of violence, abuse, bigotry, and death, and it is very long.

that’s what they said

disclaimer: I love Harry Potter even if jk is a bigot, I love Hermione, I love sanders sides which fortunately is not created by a bigot, I love Logan, so there’s no intended negativity about any of these

now, back to the point. I repeat: I fear that Logan is becoming the Hermione of this fandom

which should be a good thing, because I love Logan and I love Hermione. being “the Hermione” shouldn’t be seen as something negative, but the reason I'm referring to it as that is:

there was a time where Fanon Hermione basically became, for a lack of a better term, a Mary Sue (I know this term can have problematic and misogynistic elements but I couldn’t find a better way to describe it)

lots of it was based on the movie adaption’s version of her. lots of her flaws were either stripped away or justified – she became more fearless and confident, her condescending attitude towards mainly Harry and (especially) Ron was exaggerated, and, again, seemed more justified here. and of course, it didn’t help that she was played by the gorgeous Emma Watson. 

then came the fandom portrayal of her. while her movie counterpart was definitely more “perfectilized” (is that a word? now it is) than her book counterpart, she still had elements of being a teenager, and, well, a human. but on the internet, there were so many claims of her being the sole reason that Harry was alive, and that she was way out of Ron’s league, and lots of other stuff. if you’re in any way familiar with the Harry Potter fandom around... well, anywhere before like 2016, really, you probably know what I'm talking about. she was basically this “perfect does everything right keeps saying everyone the best at everything” kind of character. that was kinda annoying, both to people who didn’t care that much for Hermione as a character in the first place, and for the people who enjoyed her (more flawed and realistic) book counterpart

and don’t even get me started on the dr4m10ne shippers who claimed that “she deserves better than Ron (or Harry, or Neville, [heteronormativity was still a big thing back then] or really anyone who treated her with respect) and dr4c0 would be so much better for her!” 

and oof, the “Hermione joins the dark side” au’s where her actions were still justified by the narratives (why would a muggleborn join the people that discriminate against her lol)

during the last few years, she’s gotten some backlash because of this. more potter heads started realizing her flaws, or stopped justifying them. the shocking realization that the fan favorite was not perfect made a large part of the fandom go in the opposite direction. which I understand.

now, I am still able to enjoy the (canon) character Hermione Granger, despite the sue-ification she went through (maybe it’s the autism that helps me not to get so affected by public opinion, idk), but not everyone is that lucky. so many potter heads had gotten a very good character ruined for them, which is sad.

I don’t want the same thing to happen to Logan Sanders. 

Now, he wasn’t always one of the faves – in an early episode, he literally gets told that he’s the least popular character in the series (which does get played off as a joke, but I assume – I wasn’t in the fandom back then, so please correct me if I'm wrong – that for many fanders back then, that was very much the case) and I wouldn’t say he’s a “fan favorite” the same way that Hermione used to be. 

however, he has by now gained quite a large fanbase here on Tumblr. which is great! I, myself, really enjoy Logan, and most of his fans are really cool.

but there are some stans who, in my opinion, have started to give him The Hermione Treatment. who claim that he is the one constantly helping Thomas. who feel the need to bash some of the other sides in order to prove that Logan is the best. the main complaint being that “they ignore/silence him too much”. and yes, they definitely don’t listen to him nearly as much as they could and should. I agree with that.

what I don’t agree with is when fanders start wishing for him to “snap” at the others. I'm putting “snap” in quotation marks, because what they usually mean is just him straight up verbally abusing them, sometimes being physically violent toward them. all because they... didn’t pay enough attention to him? 

it gives me the same vibes as when Hermione’s acts of violence (I'm talking about, like, the bird attack toward Ron or the acne scars she forced on Marietta Edgecombe [another thing that got removed in the movie adaption], not the “fighting death eaters” parts) were considered “girl power” or something by the internet. 

now, I'm not saying that Logan in canon is super aggressive and violent, but he definitely has his moments – and that’s fine. a character does not have to be nice 24/7. but the fandom seems to, idk, romanticize (for lack of a better word) these moments, his outbursts of anger and violence, both the canon and Fanon ones. 

furthermore, there seems to be a double standard, in that lots of the things he’s praised for or that gets ignored about him, are the exact same things that would (or do) get criticized when other sides do it.

Patton gets flack for being controlling and guilt-tripping the others, which, yes, that is true, but Logan can also be controlling (Growing Up, Why Do We Get Out Of Bed In The Morning, arguably in Moving On too) and guilt-tripping (”not that any of you care, but I am unharmed” in Putting Others First)

Don’t get me wrong, it’s great that fanders have started seeing the less perfect aspects of morality. Even cinnamon rolls can do not so nice things at times.

Roman is considered to be too proud and condescending, and yeah, he is, he is literally Thomas’ ego. But Logan? “I know I'm smarter than everyone else”? nuff said.

Virgil gets criticized for being too aggressive, and boy is that true, but again, you can not bash one character for a trait that you praise (or even wish more of) in another character.

now, I know that there are fanders who also give Virgil a free pass for violence etc. (he was the ultimate Fan Favorite for a very long time), but they seem to be fewer today than they used to be – which is great! it’s just sad that instead of disappearing completely, this character treatment has now moved towards Logan.

(funnily enough, these certain Logan Stans tend to be less critical of Janus’ and Remus’ flaws too, which I will cover later on)

no, I do not want Logan to be flawless, just like I don’t want Hermione to be. I just wish this double standard wasn’t so common in the fandom.

unlike with Hermione, however, the narrative (and the writers) doesn’t seem to favor him over the others – the sides get a relatively equal treatment in that way. but the biggest problem with Hermione was not the writing, or even the movie adaption (though that definitely played a factor too), but rather the fandom. the fandom was the one who claimed Hermione to be some perfect goddess, talented in every way, too good for this world, etc. And I really don’t want this to happen with Logan!

another parallel I'll bring up is the “going dark” thing, more specifically, “going dark because the light is not good enough for me”. I mentioned dr4m10ne earlier, and Hermione joining the death eaters because Harry and Ron and the rest of the “good guys” weren’t good enough. not smart or talented enough. didn’t appreciate her enough. because Ron would at times make fun of her nerdiness, because they sometimes bickered. 

but for some reason, these dr4m10ne shippers and dark!Hermione Stans would gloss over the fact that Dr4c0 made fun of her heritage and that the death eaters literally fought for genocide of people like her (which, imo, is a bit more serious than “haha ur a nerd”)

similarly, it’s become common to head canon Logan “becoming a dark side”. now, I am in no way trying to imply that “the dark sides” are in any way similar to death eaters, or that Janus and Remus are anything like Dr4c0.

but there seems to be, yet again, a double standard. Patton, Roman, and Virgil ignore or silence or under appreciate Logan? oh yes, they definitely do. 

but so do Janus and Remus. I see so many au’s of Logan joining the “dark sides” because they are more likely to listen to and appreciate him, which, if we go by canon... is not true? Janus literally excluded Logan from the courtroom, and Remus has repeatedly threatened and physically harmed Logan because he didn’t like what he was saying. but people gloss over that because ????? 

I don’t really have a conclusion or anything, I just wanted to get this out

[seblaine-rph]

Can we talk about how Gradian might be just as bad as Joie?

If you want to tell me what brought you here with this comment, go ahead. I don’t have any insight on what their dash looks like and I assume that’s why you’re here. If @gradianvillagerp wants to take a look at the info below, they might improve their rp and grow by learning a thing or two. Remember that having a complaint lodged and/or showing you what you’ve done wrong while unaware that it was wrong is not as big of a problem as reacting poorly once you’ve been told. 

Looking at their main, I see they’re 1. using a known abuser as their main mascot and 2. there are multiple problematic fcs on their masterlist. I’m confused by the fact that there are abusers on their masterlist and there is an abuser for their mascot but they have people on their banned fc list because they’re also abusers. So I guess we’re picking and choosing which abusers we like and which are triggering. I’m also seeing 3. ethnicities not matching properly for canon families. 4. They also have Kristen Stewart as an fc, even though she’s asked not to be used as an fc because roleplay makes her uncomfortable. Jensen Ackles is on the masterlist too, and he is an iffy one, just be sure that you don’t use ANYTHING that has ANYTHING to do with his family. As a convention, he said that he doesn’t mind people using his face to rp with, as long as they do not push it on his family. I haven’t looked at the page to see if there are any pics up of him with any of his family, but if family pics were used then there is a problem. 

5. I also noticed that their masterlist is looking like the cast list for 50 Shades of White. There are a total of 5 people that aren’t white on the masterlist from what I can tell, and these 5 people all have very light skin. Masterlists like this make me feel like the roleplay is not at all welcoming to poc and may include subtle racist undertones. Because clearly the entire ooc masterlist prefers to write white. This is the kind of masterlist that makes me think that all of the poc are probably single because everyone’s writing their white faves and wants to ship with their other white faves. I’m not saying that is definitely what is happening, but that is what it looks like, from the eyes of someone who is not white. And this is based on many experiences. I also don’t see any transgender or nonbinary characters and the lack of diversity in general makes me sad. 

That’s the short and skinny of it, I’ll drop some receipts and go into more detail down below: 

Here’s a full list of what I found in just a few minutes on their main:

Cole Sprouse is their mascot and is on their masterlist. The same Cole Sprouse that has sexual abuse allegations, emotional abuse allegations, and a shit ton of privileged racism spouting out of his mouth. Alex Pettyfer is on their banned list for abuse allegations. Lea Michelle is on their banned list for being racist. But Cole is not only on the masterlist, he’s also the mascot for the main? Receipts and fuller detail on him down below, because it’d take too long to get into here and you’d never get to the rest of the problems. 

Dylan Sprouse is on the masterlist. He posted a pic of a girl he dated on Instagram and the caption was “My African Queen”. The girl’s skin tone was very tan, but many would have believe she was a black woman, but here’s the thing she isn’t black and when people called Dylan out of for having his girlfriend pretend another ethnicity, he made fun of them.

FIRST POST, with a blackfishing/blackfaced, edited photo:

The second post after he got called out:

KJ Apa is on their masterlist. He is fatphobic and sexist. There’s this post where he endorses bullying people if they’re fat because it’s “the only way to stop those useless bags of shit dying a fat, early death.” He’s also posted about beer being better than women. 

Vanessa Hudgens is on their masterlist. COVID is a trigger, but the girl that said, “It's a virus, I get it. Like, I respect it. But at the same time, like, even if everybody gets it, like, yeah, people are gonna die, which is terrible but, like, inevitable?" because she was mad she didn’t get to go to Coachella one time is okay to be there?

Jack Falahee is a Berry twin, twin to Rachel, but he’s not Jewish? Why are we erasing ethnicity? The only excuse to go against the Jewish ethnicity here would be by making the character half black, as per the season one storyline for Rachel’s birth, but the problem with that is that his mother would still be Jewish. So he’d still have to be half Jewish. 

Kristen Stewart is on the masterlist, but she’s asked not to be used in roleplays because it makes her uncomfortable. 

---------------------------------------------------

MORE ON COLE SPROUSE, 

because there was too much to put in one thing:

Cole Sprouse: He believes in reverse racism and has used MLK to attempt and justify his beliefs. He’s stated, 

This pseudo intellectual tone is the epitome of white privilege. As a white man not only does he not have right to define racism but to use a prominent Black activist in attempt to validate his ignorance is truly disgusting.  

He also compared BLM activists to cannibalism.

In 2015, some black lives matter activists interrupted a Bernie sanders rally in Seattle to criticize his campaign for paying insufficient attention to issues of criminal justice and race. Many people had their opinions on the situations, however Cole’s one didn’t make sense but also offensive. He hasn’t apologize for this remark and as a white man, he instead chose to educate people on what activism is supposed to be.

He also posted a pretty sketchy tweet about abuse, which reads “ Don’t become so jaded by abuse that your opposition becomes abusive”. This statement holds strong victim blaming sentiment and sounds like he is claiming that his actions were opposition and not abuse which is gaslighting. It should be known also that his very public ex girlfriend has been claiming that he sexually assaulted and abused her, and she’s not the only one with claims against him. 

It is also relevant to note that Cole Sprouse had this to say about a black man: 

He obviously comparing a black person to an animal. Many people have said him and Tyler are actually friends and this could have been an inside joke. No. 1 if it’s an inside joke then it should’ve stayed off the internet. 2. This is the famous excuse that many people use on themselves or to defend their idols, “I’m not racist, I have black friends!!!” or “I didn’t mean it, it was a joke.” It’s just telling of his character, when you think about the other racist remarks he’s mad. 

[kindabraveandlittlestupid]

It seems Disney underestimated the power of the Dark Side of its fan base with the box office failure of Solo: A Star Wars Story. It shows a fracturing among viewers and how future movies will be received (or not received) by audiences around the world. The major issue with the fans isn't that people outright hate the new direction of the series but many are upset that the universe they know and love for long is changing before them. Some of those changes are for the better with new stronger female leads in the movies (which was needed) and then there are changes that for the worse such as changing the established lore of the force and cutting back the extended universe, which ironically took dozens of strong female characters with it. So yay! Progress?

So I plan to make the case for being critical of the new movies. I plan to also chastize those jerkoffs who decided to attack female actresses for being role models for young girls. I plan to make a rational argument for the removed content cut away by Disney writers. I also plan on talking about how we can bridge these divides and bring everyone back together. You might not agree with everything I say or maybe you will. Most people almost never share 100% of their opinions with another person which was kind of the problem in all this... dissent was widdled down to either or and those fans with legit criticisms were pushed into the camp of those assholes who hate women and the concept of social justice/equity. Because there was no discourse or room for dissent, Disney Ultimately gambled on that disgruntled fanbase not being as influential as it is and they were wrong.

No Room For Dissent

This is a common problem in society these days, where we view things in absolutes; be it politics, movies, religion and so on. Perhaps we have always been like that (I only been around since 1985) but it feels pretty bad these day especially in regards to politics being so divisive or movies that look to present more female roles and ethnic roles in their casts taking so much flak. While I might make some political parallels to create examples, I intend on focusing on the cultural divides taking place in these popular movies.

There is plenty of blame to go around for the tribal mentality that comes when critiquing a movie. Studios benefit from having a cultural high ground because it's easier to say “You’re being sexist or racist” instead of handling a critique and having to answer for poor choices they made while making the movie. I imagine this is what happened in the case of the Ghostbusters reboot, some people asked why the black character wasn't the scientist and the studio reacted with “Why don't you like women?” A kind of deflection mentality that avoided a valid critique of the movie and shames the critic from raising his or her voice again.

The blame also falls at the feet of the very worst patrons of our society. On one side you have the army of trolls of the web who are by far the worst people the interwebs (and the world) has to offer. These are the sort of guys who see any female lead role as an insult and seek out to harass them in the real world forcing the said actresses to abandon social media. These sort of people (most of them male) leave me gritting my teeth because this isn't so much a passion of a fandom they want to protect as it is a lifestyle of attacking people who are not them. Everything is a fucking battle and anything that progresses or enhances another race/gender/sexuality beyond their own is considered a threat to their manhood.

On the other side, we have people who you would call PC and they are sometimes PC to a fault. I tend to find myself agreeing with people on this side more often than not but even then we have our moments where I am wondering what the fuck the objective is. They become advocates for a worthwhile cause but become blinded to valid points or arguments. Back to Star Wars, I wondered why Admiral Holdo was even in the movie because she was killed right away and Akbar or Leia could have had the noble death. The response is defensive of the female role simply because it's a female role. Studios obviously love these advocates because they still don't have to answer the questions and its a private army of people to protect their franchise.

The last group is fans which is a wide spectrum of people from little girls who see Rey and get excited to see a girl kicking ass on the screen to long-term fans who have questions about the lore of the movies being changed or questions why the movie changed directions. Most of us reside here between the two extremes; the PC movie defenders who see the film as a tool to improve society and those little troll fuckers who want to see the world burn.

The failing in this discussion about the movie is the fact those two polar opposites dictated the discourse for the rest of us. You either accepted the movie as it was and enjoyed being on the moral high ground or join the trolls if you have any small critiques of the movie whatsoever. Perhaps we more moderate critics failed a bit by letting the trolls become the loudest voice in the room and let them write letters where they basically bashed women became the only thing people could see. Much like a peaceful protest where 97% of the people are there to say their piece with civility and clarity but its those 3% (the Trolls) throwing trash cans thru the window that get the cameras on them and they define the protest with the media coverage. 

I blame also the Directors and Disney for playing this absolutist mentality where they say anyone who is complaining about the movie is a baby, sexist, racist or some other insult. They didn't seem to want to have any criticism and why would they?! Having a golden franchise that can basically prints money and where you can say anyone who dissents against us is a bigot of some sort, is a hell of a defense. No one wants to be with the trolls and be labeled as chauvinist or racist but because there was no spectrum or room for dissent they ultimately pushed critics and concerned fans to that side.

Respecting The Lore/Establish A Vision

Disney may not realize this but they fucked up pretty bad by cutting away the extended universe. I understand WHY they did it; thousands of characters, hundreds of worlds, dozens of stories to consider compiled over 40 years? I imagine the collective writers of Disney who saw the scope of what other people had built together and collectively shit their pants. It's a massive undertaking to try and apply the lore in a way that fans might enjoy or explore plots that we would love to see executed. The problem is instead of looking at this expanded universe as a foundation to build their movies on, they decided to slice it away and leave nothing but the core movies and a cartoon. I will try and break down why that was a mistake.

Fans Invested Most of Their Time Into The SWEU

What they may have not realized is the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy was not where fans invested most of their time. Yes, we loved those movies for being the gateway into this great fictional universe but ultimately watching the 6 films would take only 13 hours. Knights of the Old Republic a single game of that Star Wars Universe (that they cut away), takes at least 28 to 48 hours to complete. Then you add on other games Knights of the Old Republic 2, The Old Republic MMO, Shadows of the Empire, Battlefront 1/2, The Force Unleashed, Rogue Squadron, Empire at War, Dark Forces, Jedi Knight, Jedi Academy, Republic Commando and so on you are now looking at hundreds of hours invested to a single play thru or more likely THOUSANDS of hours for true gamers play each game a few times.

This is where the true long-term fans who buy Star Wars merchandise over a lifetime instead of a holiday season reside. It stays fresh in our minds as books, comics, games, and yes the movies become part of regular media diet. Disney perhaps felt overwhelmed by it or perhaps wanted to reboot the universe decided to take the vast majority of where our love resides in the Star Wars Universe and scrapped it. Like it or not this is where they lost most of their following and since they did it just before the release of the The Last Jedi they have since been dealing with the fallout of loyal fans who feel betrayed and I am not talking just about the bitchy trolls from online either.

Removal of Strong Female Roles

I like seeing Ray as a strong female character and we all, of course, we all love Leia as well. There is no doubt the Star Wars movies while centered around some strong female characters have been pretty much been male-dominated for those first six films. So the change is not only warranted but welcomed.

What is a shame as while that was true for the movies it was far from the truth for the SWEU content where there were literally dozens of strong female leads they could have been explored by Disney.

Meetra Surik

Mara Jade

Bastila Shan

Mission Vao

Juno Eclipse

Iden Versio

Jaina Solo

Maris Brood

Visas Marr

Jan Ors

And so many more...

These women come different walks of life being the daughter of Han and Leia (Jaina Solo), plucky engineers who travel with a Wookie (Mission Vao), former Sith turned to the Light Side (Mara Jade), former Imperial Pilots and Soldiers fighting for the Rebellion (Juno and Iden), or even one of the most powerful Jedi’s in the Galaxy (Meetra Surik). I suppose what is best about them being fictional is that they still exist and if Disney wants to start mending bridges they should star readapting these characters into the canon universe.

The Best Stories Exist Before And After The Movies

I suppose for some the story of Skywalker family struggle was enough for them but the bigger stories existed long before the Empire/First Order and greatest conflict took place years after. The Mandalorian Wars, where warriors raider world after world forcing the Galactic Republic to step in. The Great Galactic War pitting the Sith against Jedi across the galaxy. The Invasion of the Yuuzhan Vong leaving trillions dead across hundreds of worlds and nearly destroying all life.

These stories are part of that extended universe and far more compelling than the recycled Death Star plot we saw in 4 of the 10 Star Wars movies. The audience craved to see the Jedi at their peak when they maintained peace across the universe, or they wish to see the Sith exist not in pairs but as an Empires themselves. If Disney wants to explore this franchise than embrace the stories that have not yet been shown on screen.

Establishing A Vision

Disney has enjoyed great success with the MCU and dozens of movies its created. They also managed to get their mittens on the Star Wars Universe and seek to milk it much the same. The problem is they don't seem to have a clear idea where they want to go with the movies or what they should do with it. I already discussed how complex the universe is with all its lore but you (Disney) have control over the movies. The rights to the toys, games, books, comics and films an like it or not we are at your mercy of where you decide to take it. 

I suppose I am advocating having a vision for the future of this series. Marvel Cinematic Universe works because the stories were planned out with a sort of climactic point to be explored (IE the Infinity Wars) so we know you can practice good foresight. On the other hand... John Carter, The Sorcerer’s Apprentice and the Lone Ranger display a carelessness of other franchises. Not trying to be mean, just stating a fact. We saw it happen with other movies like Batman in the 90′s where the objective was selling toys and not making a quality film that could encourage people to buy merchandise for decades. I guess what I am trying to say is Harry Potter this franchise, treat it with love and care that the fanboys and fangirls so we can go with you on this adventure into a galaxy far far away.

A Letter to You Troll Douchbags

Some of us critics truly love movies. We see the flaws as they are and we want to be able to say our views with other people around a table. I had my issues with the magical properties of the heart-shaped herb in Black Panther. I wish they continued Ghostbusters 3 with Oscar (Jason Gordon Lovitt) taking over and having some young black scientists (played by Donald Glover and Jessica Williams) being the Ghostbusters (and Role Models) in the movie. I have some issues with The Last Jedi and how they changed the flow of the movie from one director to the next but you little bitches keep making these debates about race and fucking gender every fucking time. You see a woman on screen and you write up a review of a movie that isn't even out yet because you’re somehow afraid of the 50 movies released over the year you somehow won't be represented.

Cut your fucking shit out you little pricks. We cant make honest critiques now because you’re the first fucking twits to review a film and all you spew is the vial fucking hate raging against everything that isn't you. Honestly, the rest of us just want to enjoy ourselves, we are grown up enough to know white isn't the only skin color in the seats of the movie theater and male isn't the only gender of a hero (we call them heroines) in movies.

I picked these movies on purpose because they were topical and I had my issues with them (and I have my issue with every movie save Shaun of the Dead which is fucking perfect). I wanted to write reviews that were balanced because I want to believe we can have that discourse again where we can chat why a movie works or doesn't work without the risk of having labels like sexist or racist applied to us because you want to act out. So please for the love of god either commit to shoving your head further up your ass so we can't hear you or pull your head out and join the rest of the world. Either way, I am tired of having to apologize and denounce your rhetoric... it's honestly fucking exhausting.

Regards Michael California

[thedivinespideychelle]

Finn rant

Okay, here goes. I wanted to take the time to summarize everything that I hate about the Star Wars fandom and it’s treatment of Finn. This is all stuff that has annoyed and in some cases offended me that I’ve had to look at for well over  a year since joining this fandom. This is also everything that I’ve felt like I had to keep my mouth shut about because it seems like most people in the Star Wars fandom have no problem whatsoever with. If you disagree with me, that’s great, and feel free to message me why. If you feel offended, then unfollow me, because that’s what I’ve been trying to do for over a year.

SEXIST ONE-SHOT?

So the other day, a dear friend of mine told me that the finnreyfridays one-shot we were working on was sexist. Like actually sexist. Do you know why they told me it was sexist? Allow me to answer the question for you.

They told me it was sexist because the plot included Finn saving Rey. That’s why. I didn’t turn Rey into a helpless damsel-in-distress, I didn’t write Rey as a slutty scavenger who flirts with every guy she sees.

I wrote Rey as a skilled Jedi who was ambushed by Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren on a mission, and simply needed help. That’s it. It’s not an unrealistic situation at all, and Rey still got the upper hand on Kylo Ren. She was in danger and outnumbered, and Finn showed up and helped her.

And it’s became very clear to me that it offended my friend for one reason. That reason was that by simply because my having Finn rescue Rey, I apparently shattered Rey’s character and turned her into a helpless damsel-in-distress....

A few weeks ago there was photoset made by @shropshiregirl79 for finnreyfridays. It was a daily planet au with Finn as superman and Rey as Lois Lane. One of the pictures showed Rey in danger and Finn rescuing her, carrying her in his arms. Someone got mad about that and said they made Rey into a damsel-in-distress. 

Another situation arose where someone posted artwork of Finn and Rey as an old-style movie, with Finn a detective pointing a gun at someone while Rey clung to him. Once again, someone got mad and said it turned Rey into a damsel-in-distress. 

It’s become so taboo in this fandom just to have Finn saving, or even protecting Rey without people (probably white feminists) getting mad at it. Why is that? Is Finn’s only role only to be put in peril for Rey to rescue? And if you’re one of the people who gets mad about that, let me ask you a question. Would you be mad if it was Finn?

TROOPER IN DISTRESS

Here’s the deal. I joined the fandom well over a year ago. I can safely say I’ve read about

thirty to forty fics

where at some point,

Finn is inevitably captured or put in peril, and rescued by Rey or Poe.

I’ve seen

finnrey shippers

who supposedly love and appreciate Finn, joke around and call

Finn a damsel-in-distress (or trooper-in-distress)

and talk about how Rey does nothing but save him over and over, and everyone laughs and jokes about it.

I’ve read fics where on the off-chance that Finn does risk his life to save Rey, he gets criticized for it because he was being

RECKLESS and Rey HAD IT UNDER CONTROL. Seriously? Finn can’t even save Rey without it involving him being stupid or catching hell or it? 

It’s always, “Finn why did you do that?! You could’ve died!” instead of “Wow Finn thank you for saving me, I’m glad you’re okay. That was pretty brave.” But nope. Can’t even have that. 

I’ve read fics where Finn is flat out tied up and gagged. I’ve read a fics where Finn is captured, beaten, stripped down and hosed and left in a cell shivering in the corner helpless, wishing that Rey or Poe was there to save him (but it’s okay because ta-da they come to his rescue).

I’ve read a fic where the entire thing was just worshiping Rey. Literally. It’s Poe’s pov during a battle, and Finn is basically getting beat up and dragged away by stormtroopers, by the way that’s his entire role in the fic, just to get his ass kicked. He doesn’t do anything else. So Finn’s getting beat up, and the rest of the fic is Poe being completely ENAMORED left in AWE by Rey’s amazing flawless skills fighting through the stormtroopers and kicking ass left and right and looking SOOO beautiful and graceful with her lightsaber and she rescues Finn and Poe thanks her and thanks her over and over again. 

That’s the entire fic. Kissing Rey’s ass and kicking Finn’s. And guess what? The readers ate that shit up. They loved it.  So let me sum it up again. Finn can get beat up by stormtroopers, captured thousands of times, stripped, tortured, hosed down, and left shivering in a corner basically crying for Poe and Rey like bait, and people say that they appreciate Finn’s character for this? This is okay to everyone? Yet if I write a one shot where Rey is outnumbered, defeats Kylo Ren but is then outnumbered and Finn comes to save her, then I’m destroying Rey’s character? Then I don’t appreciate her character? Then the entire one-shot is sexist garbage based on turning Rey into a damsel in distress? Apparently so. Thanks fandom. 

Again, I’ve been putting up with this for over a year, and it took a lot of time for me to actually muster up the courage to rant about it. If this offends you, you’re probably apart of the problem.

Finnamon Roll?

Okay, another major trend I’m sick of is the constant EMASCULATION OF FINN.  Let me sum up Finn’s character.  He suffers from trauma. He was taken away as a baby and raised to be a ruthless killing machine. He endured 20+ years of brainwashing, propaganda, and conditioning. He had no friends whatsoever (SLIP WAS NOT HIS FRIEND). He was the best stormtrooper cadet in his unit. He almost never missed a shot with a blaster. He was an outcast, and constantly criticized for having a heart. In TFA, he suffers from trauma, is still an expert shot with a blaster, rescues Poe, keeps Rey from getting shot by stormtroopers, makes a tough decision to leave Rey because he knows what the First Order is capable of, and even begs her to come with him. He comes right back into the fight after seeing Hosnian Prime get destroyed, and is witnesses Rey get kidnapped by his worst nightmare.  What does he do? He decides to help the Resistance, gives them vital information that only HE knew, volunteers to go to SKB. Captures Phasma and forces her at gunpoint to lower the shields, helps Rey escape from SKB, witnesses Han’s murder, watches Rey get slammed into a tree, before making the final decision to stand up to his worst nightmare, knowing he might die just to protect Rey. His last line in the entire movie is “Come get it.”

After summarizing his character, how come all I see on tumblr is “awwwwww look at my cute smol wittle Finny. He’s so harmless and adorable!!!” Like...excuse me? Is that all tumblr was able to get from that movie? So let me get this straight. Because Finn isn’t a cold-blooded murderer, he’s suddenly nothing but a squishy pile of hearts and flowers and sugar  who couldn’t hurt a fly? Really?

How come in most highschool aus, Finn’s portrayed as an overly-meek or powerless nerd? If anything, Finn would probably be a pretty strong guy who gets straight As and stands up for his friends no matter what. But that doesn’t mean he’s a bully either.  This is what the fandom does with his character, instead of exploring the endless possibilities with his backstory and trauma. AND on the off-chance that someone writes an actual Finn-centric fic based on his backstory, it’s always just Finn and his stormtrooper buddies having a romance or exploring sex for some reason. We can’t even have a Finn story without it circulating around people he knows. It’s always about someone else at the end of the day. What’s heartbreaking is that most of the things I’m complaining about happens in the stormpilot and finnrey ships (this is where I expect people to unfollow me). Like come on guys. I could see r/eylos doing this, but not you guys. You’re so much better than that. 

Space Prince Finn (More Emasculation)

Look, when I first heard the idea of Finn being a lost Prince, I was stoked. I was blown away. My reaction was,”Finally! This fandom’s actually given Finn something of his own! He could be royalty! How dope would that be!”

But...of course, this fandom has to take that amazing concept and uh...

Well, we ruined that too. We basically turn Finn into a jewelry stand, and a makeup model. Of course, I’m not saying men can’t wear what they want. If a man wants to wear makeup or wear jewelry, that’s completely fine and I encourage that. But here’s the issue. 

We constantly idolize Princess Leia and Queen/Senator Amidala because they are figures of royalty who can fight and take care of themselves, as well as look badass while they do it. 

So why is it that when we have Prince Finn, he’s once again, emasculated, put in dresses and given nail polish, lipstick, doused in glitter, and turned into a damsel-in-distress who not only needs constant rescue once again, but this time needs Rey/Poe as a bodyguard to protect him? It’s a double standard. I’m sorry but you can’t praise Leia and Padme for being badass royals who don’t need protection, and turn around and make Finn the opposite. 

And again, it’s something that the fandom eats up for some reason. We’ll shun the Hutt-Slayer bikini (rightfully so. it’s disgusting), make it a point to make fun of the hutt-slayer bikini and constantly criticize it, yet draw Finn in it and everyone thinks it’s cute and hilarious. This is the shit that I’m sick of.  Look at T’Challa, otherwise known as Black Panther. He is royalty, but he’s also very powerful, knows how to fight, is an amazing fighter, and is taken seriously. Very seriously. He is strong, brave, serious, and intimidating, yet he’s not a bully or a stereotype. 

THIS. THIS is what I expected Prince Finn to be. This is what Prince Finn would be if it were canon. He’d be a strong leader, handsome, noble, powerful, and intimidating. And he wouldn’t need constant protection from Rey and/or Poe. Especially not this constant emasculation and woobifying. 

We live in a day and age where Princesses are being portrayed as stronger and stronger, and are told that they can rescue themselves. So why is Finn being treated the opposite? Why is Finn being treated like he’s just there to look pretty for commissions and make out with Poe? Why does he need all-powerful Rey to always protect him? Why can’t he be taken more seriously?

I want you to think about this.

Deactivating

Okay. This was a lot to cover, and it’s something that’s been nagging at me for a while now. Look. I look up to Finn. I really do. He’s my hero. He’s the first main black lead in Star Wars, and that means the world to me. I want to see him grow and be appreciate and given an epic role moving forward, and I feel like the Star Wars fandom isn’t the place I’m going to find any of that. 

Not a day goes by where I’m not tempted to deactivate and walk away from the fandom entirely. There’s just too much shit Finn is put through that drives me insane. There’s too many things that I look at or read that make me feel like this fandom will never actually appreciate Finn the way the he deserves to be appreciated. Even the people who say that they love Finn tend to do this.

So I wanted to write this rant in case I ever deactivate because of this fandom. Just so you, the readers, can know why.

Thanks for reading. Means a lot. If you’re still wondering when the One-Shot is coming out, probably next week. I have to finish it on my own. 

~Storm

@luminousfinn

@force-2187

@finn-storm-jedi

@lj-writes

@finn-is-a-jedi

@boyega-john

@errrbodylovesfinn  @finnsajedi​ @diversehighfantasy @starwarsfandomh8speopleofcolor @imaswan

[tessatechaitea]

Dark Nights: Metal #5

How many teeth do people from the Dark Multiverse have?

This is so true. I wake up screaming every morning.

I don't actually wake up screaming. It takes a few moments for me to recall who I am and what my life has become before I begin. After some superhero battles meant to extend the story by making it exciting, Bat-Joker reveals a new secret. "Endings are the loudest of all!" It's so Scott Snyder to begin the comic book by saying something that seems to make sense because he gave two examples to back up his ridiculous statement ("Beginnings are loud because the Big Bang and babies! Never mind that the Big Bang wasn't loud at all because nobody was there to hear it. That's philosophy!") only to reveal that the opposite of the statement is really true! What a twist! I feel so smart having read that! He truly knows how to manipulate narratives and fangenders! The issue ends with all of the Justice League members losing their Nth metal to the Dark Knights. All hope seems lost! Except Batman and Superman have decided to take a plunge into the Forge of Worlds' magma pit because why not? And Wonder Woman takes the narrative spine of the story (you know, the thing about noise and loudness and screams and shit) and turns it on its head! She doesn't scream at all; she yells her war cry! OH MY GOD! I just busted my comic book nut. Scott Snyder is so fucking good at this! I think I have a long enough history writing these things that I don't have to point out sarcasm, right? Dark Nights: Metal #5: As comic book events go, this is a big one. You can tell it's a big one because the editors get off the Snyder's metaphorical dick and allow him to pull from whatever continuity and canon he wants, and to manipulate it to whatever ends he desires. Bring in Sandman from Vertigo? Sure, why not?! Use Plastic Man in a serious manner? Oh yeah! Big events practically call for that to happen! Age Batman thirty years in an alternate dimension and then have him back to normal by the end somehow? Pretty much standard big event fare, that. Create a timeline based completely on Batman being the center of everything and also the reason everything goes wrong due to his hubris that, being the center of everything, he can stop all the bad stuff himself? Well, come on! This is DC Comics, after all! This is the kind of shit comic book fans shove up their vaginas as fast as they can possibly lube themselves up. It's 98% marketing and 2% Scott Snyder's semen. But a lot of fangenders really seem to love that stuff. The marketing, not the semen. I mean, I'm sure some like the semen. It's James Tynion IV approved! What I'm saying is, I guess it's stupid fun. And there's almost always room for stupid fun. Unless the current president is Donald Trump and practically everybody in congress has been bought by the NRA. Then maybe we should put aside the stupid fun and do something about this shit. Not me, of course! I'm too old and Gen-Xy! The newer generations need to fix this shit. We Gen-Xers stated right out of the gate that we weren't ever getting involved. We're Walter in Get Out. We might not be much help but we know what the fuck is going on and we'll be really funny explaining it.