#OR HOW SHE BLEW OFF ROGUES WORRIES OVER HER POWERS POST-ANTARCTICA AND IMMEDIATELY ACCUSED HER OF AN ATTACK ON A FELLOW XMEN THE SAME DAY

[punkrogue]

I always feel so frustrated with how unimaginative Marvel is with Remy, the only interesting things he's had is New Sun and X-Factor. Idk if this is true, but I read there was some rumor that Remy was gonna be an alter ego of Sinister, which would've given the writers more to work with imo. I think why some writers like Rogue and Erik more since they're much easier to work with outside of shipping. Same with Kurt, whom I sometimes think Remy is a pale imitation of (Catholic, martial artist, looks demonic, ladies man, even his powers suit a thief more than Remy's). If Kurt and Rogue weren't siblings, I'd sooner ship Rogue with him than Remy. Also, since Remy can only charge non-living things, it just makes him look weak and limited compared to other characters. I don't say all this shit to be mean, but I do get frustrated with how little material he's given, and can understand why his character is constantly put on the back burner in various media compared to other X-Men characters.

Yeah I remember reading somewhere they'd thought about doing something like that with Remy and Sinister and I think instead went with New Sun? Something like that. Also considered having him be ANOTHER Secret Summers Brother and I'm glad we didn't go this route lol we need to stop the Summers-Grey family tree from taking over the whole X-verse while we can.

I'll say that I don't feel that Remy is a pale imitation of Kurt mainly because I feel Remy deals with a lotta things that Kurt really doesn't on a personal level (true parental abandonment like no margali in SIGHT kinda shit, street life, crime, child soldier gangland shit, the greys and blacks of morality etc). You see more of those things in his solos which can even get a bit of a noir vibe to them which is nice but people just rarely wanna put in the time and effort with Remy. They rarely get him so they knock him down into say, the TAS 90s Gambit mold and call it a day. Which is just ....... no one wants that. Not Gambit Haters, not Gambit Stans.

And I get what you're saying about his powers but I think if he could charge living matter constantly like he can as New Sun homie would be so comically OP. I think the real issue here is just again, fuckers don't know how to write him so they go for whatever's easiest. So it's all lame, dumb and boring. If they let him get funky with his powers a bit more it'd could be super cool.

The pro of Rogue and Magneto when made scene partners is that they do have much more solid pre-existing characterizations, vibes and "story packs". As a writer you can walk in and already there's a couple of things you can do which are kinda like Rogue or Magneto Classics. Remy not so much so he ends up being like, Rogue's loser sidekick which sucks.

I feel you tho on the shitshow that is comic Rogue-Kurt dynamics. I too can see the appeal and charm of them as a romantic ship just as much as I can see them working wonderfully as a sibling pair. My beef around them has been for years that we get this Big Reveal that Mystique is Kurt's Bio-Mom but after he has his initial freak out for a couple issues in Excalibur or Uncanny or w/e he was in at the time I forget I just remember Amanda is there this whole thing-- IT NEVER REALLY COMES UP AGAIN BETWEEN HIM AND ROGUE AND THEY JUST ACT LIKE NORMAL AND OCCASIONALLY MENTION THEY'RE SORT-OF RELATED IN A WAY THAT'S MORE OF A REMINDER TO THE AUDIENCE????? LIKE IT'S FUN TRIVIA INSTEAD OF A PLOT POINT OR IMPORTANT RELATIONSHIP????

their first serious non-combat interaction was basically Kurt telling her to drop dead when she comes to Xavier for help when she's 17 and he's 21. He finally cuts her some slack after she ALMOST DIES IN A SUICIDE BY VILLAIN ATTEMPT to save Wolverine's fiance which makes Wolverine go "yeah okay fine your not total dogshit ig" so NOW Kurt'll stop being a raging asshole to the mentally ill teen lol (I'm shit talking Kurt rn but this is genuinely part of why I love him). Then there's MAYBE a couple of scenes that are outside of Action Stuff before the X-Men "die" in the late 80s and we get Excalibur where the two of them interact, the biggest of them is him FLIRTING WITH HER.

Uncanny X-Men (1963) #192

Now-- it's Kurt so this isn't anything really all that crazy. He jokingly flirts with like 90% of the X-Men. It's just the kinda silly funny quirky guy he is. But when I'm trying to think of say, Rogue-Kurt moments POST the Mystique Reveal that really feel like People Connecting or them Actually Being Siblings I draw a blank. This flirting scene is more iconic and stand out than basically all of their 00s and on interactions because it feels like a natural and very emotional conflict they WOULD have. He goofs around like he always does, her feelings get hurt, he realizes what he's done and feels like an ass and wants to fix it. EMOTIONS HAPPENED HERE, CHARACTERIZATION AND CONFLICTED OCCURRED. THIS CONFLICT AND LATER RECONCILIATION WILL LEAD TO A BETTER FRIENDSHIP AS WE GO! THANKS CLAREMONT!

Even at her wedding he's basically just like "well I AM her brother (remember? did you see that watchmojo listicle? have you read my wiki recently) and I AM blue so I should ALSO be in the wedding."

There's really not a lot of content of them like, hanging out, post 2004 or so. Some of that is just them being in different books but a lot of it just no one putting in the time or effort. X-Treme X-Men (2001) was all about Rogue looking into shit related to Destiny's writings and grappling with some Family and Personal Grief at the start there. Kurt shoulda been around for at least the first arc. Not thunderbird that absolutely nothing of a dude. It was the perfect setting to work on this issue that the 6 degrees of Mystique™ has made. One of the only other encounters between them I can think of that's post-90s is this:

Rogue (2001) #4

And this interaction is set like VERY SOON after she joined the X-Men!!!! So it's not even a truly modern scene of them just vibing!!!!

To me, they're NOT siblings. Not in the way Kurt is with Amanda who's his ACTUAL adoptive sister or even in the way that Rogue is with Bobby, Sam or Scott who she just has Massive Broship Energies with and it's entirely because their 6 Degrees of Mystique™ is tenuous at best for how much it would really matter to them. Kurt HAS a family! He HAS siblings! Mystique abandoned/lost him and never looked for him or intended to tell him about their connection until forced to. He was raised by Margali and sees HER FAMILY as HIS family and they think the same! Like that's a standard ass adoptive family vibe.

Rogue is found by Mystique and Irene and raised by them in near isolation ON ANOTHER CONTINENT and is never informed about Kurt even in a past "i had a baby and lost him" tense kinda way or Graydon either. To her knowledge growing up she HAS NO SIBLINGS OF ANY KIND. She meets and fights against and then beside Kurt with no idea there's literally anything connecting them but that they're both mutants and x-men for like, YEARS even IN canon. Their whole relationship is rocky as shit for a WHILE there and then she gets YEETED SECRETLY TO AUSTRALIA AND HE THINKS SHE DIED. And let's be clear-- sure he's upset about her "death" too but he is MUCH more upset over the "deaths" of Logan, Ororo and Peter who he ACTUALLY NAMES WHILE TALKING ABOUT THIS GRIEF. Because you know... THESE RELATIONSHIPS ACTUALLY HAD FUCKING SCREENTIME.

Excalibur (1988) #1

He's not a monster, he does give a shit about her, but realistically over the years VERY little time has been put into building ANY relationship between Rogue and Kurt of ANY kind and it's frustrating when they really wanna act like they've got one. They don't. And it pisses me off because realistically Rogue/Kurt is less fucked up than Amanda/Kurt and guess which one is canon. Because of the 6 Degrees of Mystique™ people don't really ship them even tho there's an even more Yikes Kurt ship that's canon and Does Not Seem To Fucking Die, there's been no real development of ANY kind of relationship between him and Rogue, they've lived their ENTIRE lives not knowing each other or not really being more than coworkers and Kurt has NO INTEREST in truly claiming Mystique as his mother which is valid-- she fucking sucks.

I think Rogue/Kurt has legs and it's aggravating to me because I also really like Rogue & Kurt siblingship! I grew up watching Evolution! The sibling vibes and friendship that grow naturally up between them even BEFORE the Mystique Reveal in that show are just CHEF'S KISS. But in comics they IMPLY a familial connection that really.... doesn't mean much... and then they don't show these two deciding it to make it mean something or organically falling into a good sibling relationship... so they cut off the dynamic at the knees. You'll be shit on if you try to go off script and explore a more romantic angle because "ew they're rElAtEd" (ignoring all the previously stated flaws in that argument), there's nothing in canon that helps you figure out how friendly they even truly are so good luck building something canon compliant and they just generally don't seem to even give a shit about this dynamic at all so without dipping into other adaptations/AUs it can be hard to find something to even SAY about them.

Like I'd love to see Rogue and Kurt engage like, finding out what the Mystique Reveal means to them and how they see each other. I'd love to see them becoming friends and then family. I'd love to see them making that CHOICE. Because really in this context it's a CHOICE. She's not his adoptive sister, Amanda is. She's not his bio sister either in 616, that idea got shot down early on. She's a girl his bio mom who is a stranger to him raised an ocean away while he was raised in a loving home with siblings he adores. They met when she was a villain, he vehemently disliked her until she almost died saving someone's life then he tried to at least be civil and friendly. He finds out Mystique is his bio mother and asks Rogue about her but at the end of the day feels no real connection to Mystique or her life. His mother is Margali. The circus was his family. He cares about Mystique, Irene and Rogue because he's a decent human being but like, not in the same amount or extent as his adoptive family.

You can't have a scene of him flirting, even jokingly, with her in the 80s then think a 1993 mom reveal some how totally erases that vibe. Especially when you then put like no effort into exploring that GOLDMINE OF A PLOT THREAD. They've got so few non-combat just hanging out and engaging in character development interactions in 616 canon I can count them on my hands. At this point you could spin a wheel and decide to give them any relationship dynamic and it could genuinely work because there's no real content of them in comics to use contest it.

Like at her wedding they bring up that he's her brother again. That shouldn't be something we have a "turn to the camera and remind the audience" moment about. That should be as "well duh" to me as Bobby being her best man or Scott and Alex being brothers. It's not. It's just not. Their connection is just a factoid at this point and I hate it. You can't close off all these other potential dynamics for them (romantic/enemies/rivals/shitty roommates/etc whatever) by making them connected via Mystique, having an line every like, 10 years that reminds us they're "siblings" (are they tho? are they really? is that how this works?) and kinda vaguely imply they don't hate each other which is really just riding on the fact that pretty much ALL the X-Men like Kurt and we the audience like both of them and then GIVE US NOTHING WITH THAT STATED DYNAMIC!

MORE TIME AND EFFORT WAS PUT INTO MAKING NATE GREY SEE MADYLENE PRYOR AS HIS MOTHER OVER JEAN THAN HAS EVER BEEN PUT INTO MAKING ROGUE AND KURT FEEL LIKE THEY'RE EVEN FRIENDS LET ALONE SIBLINGS AND I'M VERY MAD ABOUT IT!!!! EITHER GIVE ME WHAT I WANT OR CUT THE REINS AT LET ME DO WHATEVER!!!

fsdkjghksdl so i just get VERY heated about this it's a pet peeve of mine.