#OF THE OPPRESSED AND MISTREATED DEMIGODS AGAINST THE GODS

[takaraphoenix]

What do you think about the changes to Luke’s confrontation with Percy ?

Got this ask, got really confused, realized the final episode was out, went to watch it, came back here.

So.

Mh.

As with the majority of the many changes this show made to the books, I have... mixed feelings on it.

Part of me loves this much more than the books - much - more. Because it made so much more sense. Luke, trying to recruit Percy instead of just... flat-out trying to murder him again.

And! That Percy was the one who figured it out, on his own. I love how clever this show makes Percy.

It was a really tense and interesting confrontation.

Now here's the part that made me dislike it. Because it made so much sense.

In the books, Percy not taking Luke's side made complete sense, because Luke just flat-out tries to murder him, for the second time, and he is screaming and throwing so much stuff out in such a frantic way that he does sound like he lost his mind. It's very easy to conclude "My guy, you're being brainwashed by Kronos".

But this Luke? And this Percy?

The Percy who literally spent the entire damn show MAKING Luke's points. The first half of this show, every single conversation between him and Annabeth was basically Percy reciting Luke's bulletpoint list of why the gods suck and demigods shouldn't do their bidding.

And now, what? All of the sudden, just because, what, daddy dearest showed up once and saved Percy's life from Zeus, he is Team Olympus? C'mon. That was weak as fuck.

A very brief summary of a point I've made in the past, I don't want to drag this argument out again but it's important to bring up in this context: PJO is inherently a story about keeping the status quo. It follows the very tried concept of giving the villain (Luke) a very good and valid motivation to rebel against an oppressive force, but undermining the good points he makes by adding something that nobody can argue is bad (Kronos controlling everything in the background), so the hero fights the immediate problem instead of the shared oppressors, instead of just giving the very good and valid motivation to the hero and have them fight for real change.

And in the books, at least there really wasn't much of a reason for Percy to join Luke, and Luke doesn't even really ask for it either.

But this Luke asked. This Luke very coherently expressed himself.

And this Percy has made his exact talking points in the past. And nothing, aside from Poseidon stepping up once in his fucking life, has really changed. If anything, I'd say the bad - Ares, Zeus, ATHENA - really outweigh the good.

Why is Kronos worse than Zeus? Because he ate his children? Zeus did worse things to his own children in mythology, to be quite frank. Show Percy is too clever - too knowledgeable about mythology and the past of their godly family and good at putting one and one together - and too bitter toward the gods to so fully dismiss Luke, in my opinion, especially considering we removed the "I will immediately try to murder you with a killer scorpion" and added Luke explicitly trying to recruit Percy.

And I'm not saying "Percy should have absolutely joined Luke's side", but I am saying that it felt far too much like a 180 on Percy's part to be defending the gods and pretend that Luke isn't making sense. I liked that Chiron called that out in the end, but... Percy's reply was even weaker because there was no foundation for why he would be so stubborn about this.

Even if you don't pull through with it, I think that an angle of doubt, an angle of temptation, should have been played up here.

[ladynicte]

Not hostility. 2. He had been stuck in a dungeon for a while partially because Nico lied to him. 3. Where? 4. Leo never knew Nico before and didn't know anything about him. Plus Nico was giving creepy vibes to everyone partially on purpose. 5. Where? 6. That's not what happened. 7. Again, Nico creeps pretty much everyone out partially on purpose. 8. That ESPECAIALLY never happened.

Oh so you do want me to keep going nice✨

Either way putting this whole answer under read more so it doesn't clog up anybody's dash cuz it got really long

Dude I don't know where your idea that he was being purposefully creepy comes from. He's literally denoted to smile at them a bunch of times even though Nico later one describes that emoting at all is difficult for him. If anything I would say that denotes he was trying to be friendly and it just didn't work.

He was for sure trying to stay away from them because Nico has a very hard time with living people plus living people who specifically seem to dislike him and only him.

But trying to keep your distance from a bunch of older kids you don't even know after you went through the most traumatic experience of your life plus the guy you are in love with just went missing together with his girlfriend isn't the same as purposefully going out of your way to creep people out just because

1. How the hell is not hostile to hope a child who was supposed to be under you special care dies a most painful death simply because it isn't convenient for you and your oppressive system that he lives. Maybe it's not personal but it sure as hell it's hostile.

2. Nico was said a dozen times to had been tricked by Hades, which he had no way of knowing he would have been tricked because yet again he's like 12 at this point Hades is his dad and prior to this had never lied to him.

Also love how you don't even bring up my point about Percy trying to hurry Nico up and wishing he could throw stuff at him so he would stop groaning while Nico had just gotten out of the jar. Funny

And yet again the point was to show hostility, it doesn't matter what motive there was for the hostility the only point was to show hostility against Nico, which I would argue pointing a sword at his neck it's pretty hostile.

3. Here

4. So what? That's not the point. First of all Leo did know Nico, not personally but he for sure saw how desperate to save Nico, Hazel his friend and a girl he was supposedly into, was. Also even if Nico was a complete stranger, he was literally a war prisoner, who couldn't even speak for a while, and actively needed his sword to even be able to walk.

I don't know about you but if I see a kid who has been kidnapped actively starved and literally went through hell, even if I don't know him, even if he's "Purposefully creepy" as you put him I'm still not gonna go out of my way to showcase to him how much he creeps me out and how much I don't like him, you know. Cuz basic human decency and all.

5. Yet again, here

6. First the screenshot

Yes Jason wanted to leave Nico in the jar, and you can say it was a strategic move, he was still abandoning Hazel's brother to his own slow demise. And that's still a bad thing to do, hell it breaks Hazel's trust in him to the point she starts thinking, what if I'm no good for the mission and he abandons me next.

He denotes that being a child of Pluto was hard enough as it was which means he does see being the child of one of the Chthonic Gods as a reason to be mistreated, and he's making the effort to not do that.

Which good for him but you know no other demigod gets that treatment it's only specifically the children of the king of the dead.

So yes that's literally just what happened.

7. Love how you don't even try to say that didn't happen because it was like straight up three chapters of that.

But so what? He's being creepy on purpose therefore he deserves to get chunked into water and left to his own luck? Really that's your point here?

First of all Frank is a good few years older than Nico, hell Frank has an almost three years gap with Hazel (Which don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure before the reckon when Nico himself was younger than Hazel it was a full three years) so why is he having beef with his girlfriend's scrawny brother.

And Nico's not even being creepy on purpose. But hell even if you think he was being creepy on purpose to Jason or Leo to keep them away, when was he ever creepy on purpose to Frank.

Frank and him already knew each other previously, and Nico never had any issue with him, it's only said that he likes to tease him sometimes.

And right after Frank is done talking about how pissed at Nico he is, Nico literally tells Hazel he likes her boyfriend.

But Frank was already reluctant about Nico even from back when they were in Camp Jupiter while he wasn't hostile like he got during the Quest, he did denote that Nico wasn't like Hazel, which in turn got Percy to defend Nico.

So yeah, so what. I don't get your point yes everybody is creeped out by Nico. Nico doesn't like creeping people out.

But the whole point of that answer was to say yes everybody is creeped out by him and reacts hostile to him, you just saying yes they are all creeped out by him is honestly just telling me I am right.

It doesn't even matter if he does it on purpose after being on literal Tartarus, but he's not even doing it on purpose mate.

No not even partially, he's aware he does that, doesn't mean he's doing it on purpose.

8. I will say The Camp becomes a better place for Nico post-Solangelo but before that no not really.

Nico actually sorta has some friends in Camp Jupiter, and Hazel says they just look at him as a travelling oddball, on the other hand in Camp Half-Blood, Nico never once felt comfortable or like he belonged, he was always leaving because he always perceived hostility against him.

The only times that Nico's life in Camp is described as anything else than hanging in the shadows and running away is after he reunites his Divine family to go battle against Kronos together, and stop the world from ending.

That's said to us by Percy who is denoted to be a pretty unrealiable narrator especially towards Nico so who knows how trustworthy that information even is

But we know that doesn't last very long from Nico saying so himself, plus the fact that right after that book we come back to Nico having left yet again, and Annabeth the only remaining Camp as we are told the Camp literally falls apart if neither Percy or Annabeth are there to attend it 24/7 during TOA, only briefly mentions Nico as yeah the dark creepy kid who's gone right now.

So yeah I don't think he was super popular there neither, but I think it's pretty telling he felt comfortable in Camp Jupiter after being there for less than a year, and never managed to feel accepted by Camp Half-Blood even after three years