#Now there’s a difference between a romantic scene which elriel do not have in acowar and a romantic CODED scene which elriel have a lot off

[elainsgirl]

I don’t understand how antis say that elucien has as much foreshadowing as elriel. Apart from the unwanted mating bond what romantic moments do they have.

Alright, let’s count without being biased:

Ig him giving Elain his coat in Acomaf? I think thats the absolute bare minimum but for some odd reason its romantacised?

wanting too leave Spring to see if Elain was worth fighting for Elain.

erm. Hmm. Lucien telling them to take Elain out of the house and outside…which Amren and Madja also said

”she was the most beautiful woman he had ever seen…she was nothing like Jesminda, Elain had been thrown at him”

Elain taking that halfstep towards him, it wS serving the good angst

A smile blooming on Elains face when she sees Lucien

Lucien fighting his way through the battlefield for her

and them having a conversation in the end of acowar together without anyone else present

Luciens gifts towards Elain if you ignore the fact her smile faded afterwards and she liked none of them enough to use them

I mean some *I* don’t find romantic and the books canonically does not place any significance on more then half these scenes so if we’re going by the books only and whats written to be romantic - 5-8 everything else is twisted interpretation. Now, The *only* foreshadowing that gives some leeway to elucien is Elains connection to sunlight and Lucien being an heir to day HOWEVER neither are connected together through sunlight together and you have to ignore Luciens autumn and fire imagery as that does not fit elucien in anyway. Along w Mass writing the line, “Lord of fire and Bird of Flame” between Vassien. With elucien, you have to disregard a lot of canon context to find some of their scenes romantic hence why you often find elucien’s purposely twisting quotes and scenes to show it in a better light

Ofc let’s look at some elriel scenes, *just from acowar* 1. Elain calling Azriels scars beautiful and not balking away from hin -> he blushes = romantic coded scene

2. Elain and Az chilling together in the garden -> Feyre looking at them and THEN questioning elucien’s bond, “why not make them matss?” - scene written to be significant.

3. Azriel mirroring Cass and going still at the sight of Elain -> we know how Cass feels about Nesta at this point, by having Az copy Cassians action for Elain it places both couples on the same romantic scale - again a purposeful choice by Sjm

4. “A seer” -> Az figuring out what was amiss w elain, Madja said only a mate can do so, so again written to be significant especially when you parallel it to Lucien standing there clueless

5. “You came for me?” -> significant moment for Elain, It wasn’t her mate that came but Azriel

6. Azriel cradling Elain to his chest despite swaying and bleeding

7. Elain rising to her toes and giving him a peck on the cheek -> no need for that, romantically coded again

8. The whole scene where Az gave her truthteller. THAT was written to be monumental, “Death and the lovely fawn” - I would not say this is typically romantic HOWEVER It is peak elriel foreshadowing and lore for their plotline w the prison.

With Elucien, thats all across 4 books. With elriel thats just ONE out of FOUR books. And ALL four books contain even more romantic elriel foreshadowing and plot. 1, 3, 6 and 7 are romantically coded and written. Its not something anyone can argue about. Its the standard formula for a couple written to be romantic and you can find this formula in any romance book. 2, 5 and 8 are significant scenes especially as they’re brought up again within the books, like you can’t argue against the importance of these scenes. As for 4 - its a stark parallel between Lucien and Elain, showing who understands her more.

so no. Elucien may have had some foreshadowing in acomaf and spread thinly throughout acowar but it no where near rivals Elriels scenes and foreshadowing especially as elriels’ are ones written to be remembered and significant. Eluciens aren’t.

[lovemyromance]

I think regardless of which side of the ship war you're on, everyone is claiming that "Ofc their development and love story is going to play out more in their book!"

And I think that's a fair statement to make 🤷🏻‍♀️ No Elriel is claiming Elain & Azriel are in love right now (and if they are, they're wrong lmao), I might've seen some Eluciens & Gwynriels claiming their respective couples are in love or whatever - but I am willing to accept that is not the general consensus of those sides.

We often see the "Why would Elain accept a mating bond in a book that's not hers?" Argument from the Elucien side. And Elriels have countered with "Well then why would she reject a bond in a book that's not hers?" but apparently, THAT is too hard to grasp for some anti-Elriels.

I think the real question is: where is the buildup?

Elain & Azriel have undeniable build up on the page. Even if you dismiss all their other small romantic moments in the background (i.e. Hybern rescue, Truthteller, "sit I'll take care of it", garden scenes), they still were about to get NAWSTY with each other in the BC.

And you can call it whatever you want (love/lust/obsession), but you cannot deny that is clear romantic build up. Whether they are endgame or not, nothing will change the fact that Elain willingly chose to kiss the Spymaster, not her mate.

Speaking of the M-word: Also undeniable: Elain & Lucien are mates. Regardless of what happens, that bond situation will have to be addressed at some point in Elain's book.

But so far, that initial "You're my mate" is the only thing that gives us any indication that Elucien is even an option. Nothing I have seen from either of them is giving "mates".

In ACOTAR, it has been very clear with both Feyre & Nesta that their mate/endgame was Rhys/Cassian. How did we know that before they were declared mates officially?

Because the build up. They had clear chemistry on the page. Even when they were avoiding each other, they weren't really avoiding each other. From the moment Feyre met Rhys and thought he was the most beautiful man, to the moment Cassian & Nesta squared off at the dining table - we could see their chemistry and attraction on the page. They left us wanting for more.

If we compare Elucien to these couples - it cannot be said that they are the same. They already know they're mates, so arguably that should be more incentive to get to know a person - but they still avoid each other. All their interactions are described as uncomfortable, forced, or dry as hell. There is no conversation or interaction between them that had me smiling to myself or excited to read more about them.

You can place the blame on Elain all you want. Say that in ACOWAR - she was depressed. In ACOFAS - she was still adjusting to fae life. What's the excuse by ACOSF? She is just quietly miserable in the NC?

If that's the case - isn't that more of a reason to reach out to her non-NC mate? Isn't that more of a reason to want Lucien, over Azriel?

We see Elain ignore Lucien at every turn in ACOSF. We see multiple characters notice how Elain doesn't want him, Elain seems wary of him, Elain avoids him, Elain loses her boldness around him.

How is that build up? Even when SJM writes enemies to lovers, even if there are XYZ things against a pairing, they still have chemistry. That is what is missing in Elucien.

You don't need to wait till Elain's book to see chemistry. They've interacted multiple times and not one of their interactions had me wanting to see more.

Elucien will not fall in love suddenly off page. No one expects that. Elriel will also not fall in love off page.

The difference is, Elriel has shown chemistry. Attraction. Romantic interest.

Elucien has not. You can argue "foreshadowing" all you want but at the end of the day it comes down to Elain & Lucien and how they interact. Do they have any tension or chemistry? No. They just ignore and avoid.

That does not make for a solid foundation for a romance book. People are forgetting these are not standalones, these are spinoffs to ACOTAR. SJM has said herself she started planting clues for Nesta & Elain's stories in ACOFAS itself.

Even when Nesta was not the focus in ACOWAR, she and Cassian still had significant moments. Even before she turned fae, she and Cassian received a bonus chapter in ACOMAF. Their chemistry was undeniable. It was almost exactly like the Elriel BC encounter - but I guess we're not ready for that conversation 🤷🏻‍♀️.

All I am saying is that Elain & Azriel have had proven romantic buildup on the page. You can believe the mating bond will prevail but what is giving you that confidence reading the current text in front of you?

If I open ACOTAR 5 come springtime (lol can u imagine what a dream) - and Elain & Lucien suddenly start interacting and it's interesting and they have chemistry with each other- great. I'm on board.

But until then, they'll never have what Elain & Azriel have. And that's mutual romantic interest.

[booksatm]

here’s my personal opinion on #elriel vs #gwynriel. (not that it matters to everyone, but imma state it anyway)

was the gwynriel scene touching? for sure. could she be azriel’s mate? quite possibly, i don’t see why not.

does that mean they have to end up together? NO. keep in mind, gwyn is JUST overcoming being around the opposite gender...like even at the end of ACOSF she kinda went back into her shell & had to think about attending #nessian ‘s mating ceremony cause the Rite messed her up again. she has personal growing to do, so do i think SJM is gonna toss her a man to help her get through her trauma WITH MEN...no...no, i do not. could azriel be gwyn’s mate — of course, but why can’t he just be the kind of mate who’s there for her? SJM has been laying too many clues for us regarding this mate thing; “it can be rejected”, “there can be more than one”; “it doesn’t have to result in a romantic relationship”, for y’all to believe every mating couple is going to end up together within the inner circle.

now, onto my girl elain. SHE HAD FAR TOO MUCH BUILDUP FOR THE NEXT BOOK NOT TO BE ABOUT HER. elain had so much, legitimately, so much buildup from ACOSF & all the previous books. AND IF YALL WANNA RECOGNIZE ONE POV, LETS RECOGNIZE THEM BOTH. why in the hickity heck would SJM have Rhys and Feyre talk about Elain “showing a different side to herself” for half of their POV chapter, if the next book wasn’t gonna be about her? SJM said that who the next book is about will be obvious....are we gonna ignore the elain sized elephant in the room where BOTH POVs spoke about her, and that throughout the book Elain was a quite frequent ‘mysterious’ figure that everyone was shook was finally standing up for herself? gwyn was only mentioned in azriel’s...soooo... & since we know each new books surrounds a pair that’ll become a couple; 1+1=elriel. & tbh y’all not liking the 3 brothers w/ the 3 sisters is kinda ehh cause who wouldn’t want to give the Bat Bois a chance to actually be brothers if they could??? like, i cannot think of anything more heartwarming. & let’s also not forget we had this same arguement at the end of ACOFAS with Cassian and Emerie...like y’all were so against Nesta that you really thought Cassian was going to end up with someone else, even though we’d had book after book of buildup. do we not see a pattern here? i’m just glad we’ve given up on #elucian, which was also held onto for quite a while even though we’d had book after book of evidence against that too...hmmm...another pattern. let’s not ignore evidence & SJM’s writing style.

in the end, gwyn is an amazing character, but if you came away from ACOSF thinking “oh yeah, and next she should get a romantic interest”, you got the wrong message from her story. she deserves love, of course, but not after the trauma she still needs to find her own way to overcome. & the love between her, Emerie, & Nesta was, very evidently, enough for her. and for y’all about to say “what about Nesta & Cassian, she just overcame trauma too and they got together”, THEYRE NOT THE SAME. nesta held no trauma that made her fearful of the opposite sex. trauma is different, and people have different ways of coping with it. what works for nesta is not guaranteed to work for Gwyn. most importantly, SJM is really setting us up for a powerful “choice” romance. i say that to mean, a major theme between Az & Elain is that their choices were being taken away from them. Elain hasn’t been able to make her own choices because of her sisters or Lucien, and now she can’t even decide to kiss a man she likes. Az has always been the ‘good soldier’ and wasn’t able to have Mor, a happy upbringing, and now Elain. he’s always been the “yes man”. like, i’m expecting Az to pop off and tell everyone “No, i’m doing what is going to make me happy”. he did that once when he went to save Elain in ACOWAR & i can’t wait to see him fight for who/what he wants once more (&i think being around elain makes him feel as though he can). think about it...now, why would SJM give us so much information about the “Blood Duel” & rejecting the bond if we weren’t going to see it at all...??? she wouldn’t do that. uh-uh. & for y’all who are referencing the shadows or the fact that Elain can’t give Az a baby...imma only say this once & hopefully we don’t have to address the latter ever again; the shadows leave when Az is safe & happy. so many quotes from the previous books showcase this. not saying that them dancing with gwyn means that he’s in danger, but the shadows have been shown to gravitate toward those with trauma, so they recognize gwyn’s pain & surround her. Elain allows Az to finally be at rest...his shadows can finally leave him. just think, would you really want the darkness surrounding you 24/7? no. the shadows are practically his job, so ofc he would want to be around someone who has them go away. he wants, craves some light. and with the freaking baby thing. women are not only used for procreation, but since y’all wanna keep bringing it up, technically Gwyn doesn’t have wings either, last i checked, so she wouldn’t be able to deliver the same way Elain isn’t able to. but that’s so legitimately disgusting to even argue about so, there. you can ship who you wanna ship or not, because personally, i find this all very entertaining. but if we wanna get into “whose right” or “the facts lead to gwyn”, i just wanted to present my own case for #elriel. if you simply don’t like elain with azriel because “elain is boring” “he deserves better” then please keep your misogynistic tendencies to yourself cause we stan all women in ACOTAR over here (with the exception of Amarantha). elain deserves happiness just like azriel does, so if her happiness lies with him or with a literal tree, she deserves whatever she wants just as much as any other character in this world.

[musicallibrarian93]

Inside Azriel’s mind (moriel/elriel/gwynriel)

Okay so I know this is a hot topic atm, and tbh I can see it going either way. However, I think I’m more partial to Gwyn right now and like all the fics I’m writing atm are Gwynriel supporting, but like I said it could go either way. 

Anyway I kind of wanted to get into Azriel’s head a little bit, so here is my analysis. 

Azriel had an awful childhood, didn’t believe he was worth anything. Gets taken in by one of his mothers friends and slowly starts to build up some kind of family. 

He meets an extremely kind and beautiful girl (That’s Mor btw) and he’s besotted with her, as anyone who has met Morrigan would feel, and possibly around the time he was plucking up the courage to say something and perhaps start to feel like he was worth more. Mor decides that it’s Cassian who she wants to sleep with. 

Now, regardless if you think what Mor did was right or wrong (btw she’d entitled to do whatever she wants, and I personally think she chose Cassian more out of panic and wanting to get out of her predicament rather than to hurt Azriel) it still hurt him. He was bound to take it personally, no matter the intention behind it, and I think this is where a large part of his feeling of worthlessness comes from. 

We get told Azriel has been pining for Mor for 500 years. I think this is BS. I believe he loves her and she’s family to him but he’s more in love with the idea of family and relationship, which Mor and the rest of the IC represent to him. However, Azriel being Azriel and not confronting his feelings may just take it at face value and think he’s in love with her (Idk this is a grey area). 

In addition, Azriel is a freaking Shadowsinger, he knows to some extent that Mor is/ has been involved with females. He would respect her privacy and never out her, but he knows for sure that she’s attracted to females. Mor herself says in ACOWAR, that it confuses Azriel when she sleeps with males. Why would it confuse him if he thought she exclusively liked males?

In terms of Azriel’s pining for Mor, it’s split into two possible paths. 1) I think an element of Azriel’s self-loathing could be that Mor has kept this secret from him? Like maybe he feels like because Mor doesn’t want to share that with him yet, that she views there relationship in a different way than he does. Or 2) (which I find more likely) He’s protecting Mor’s secret from everyone else? So when he beats up Eris at the High Lord’s meeting, maybe that’s his way of saying, ‘I stand with you/ will support you no matter what’ - but it’s coming across as romantic feelings because apparently being territorial is the only way an Illyrian can show they care. 

Anyway, Elain comes along. We know she’s described as the most beautiful Archeron and we know that the two have numerous moments where they are fascinated by one another. That scene where he realises she’s a Seer. Gorgeous. When he gives her Truthteller. Stunning. Arguably there is some kind of connection between them. I believe during ACOWAR is when Azriel starts to see Elain in same way he's been seeing Mor, or at least thought he’d been seeing her. Here is this misunderstood, lost soul that he gets on with really well, and it’s the first time he saw a future with anyone. He’d been telling himself it was Mor but maybe this whole time it was supposed to be Elain? 

Az sees a very strange situation arising. Rhys and Feyre are mates. Nesta and Cassian are mates (You cannot tell me Azriel didn’t know about this way before ACOSF). But Elain is mated to Lucien. That doesn’t fit the pattern. He says himself that he doesn’t understand how that turned out. Thinks the Cauldron got it wrong. And I think a lot of his attraction for Elain stems from a ‘this is what was supposed to happen’.

Then we meet Gwyn. Glorious Gwyn. Their history is so interesting. We know that he’s the first one to show up at the temple and they talk about in ACOSF how Azriel just killed all the Hybern soldiers. Which was strange because he normally brings them back for questioning. I’ve already seen theories about this being the mating bond and I would not be surprised. We know that when Rhys’s parents met, his father misted the men who were handling her so it’s not unlikely. But Azriel at this point is a little lost. His brother has just returned after 49 years, he doesn’t know if war is coming, he’s apparently pining for Mor and everything is up in the air. So I think anything he might have felt (i.e. the pull of a mating bond) would have been pushed deep down. Rhys talks about how he’s seen Cassian throw up after killing someone but that it doesn’t seem to affect Az in the same way, therefore Azriel is good at pushing down his feelings. Shocking I know. So upon seeing Gwyn for the first time he doesn’t even register what she might mean to him. 

Fast forward to ACOSF and Gwyn sees Azriel in the training ring. Cassian notes that she stiffened, perhaps because it’s the first time in 2 years she’s seen the male who killed a room full of soldiers who were attacking and abusing her (this is more likely) or maybe she feels something too (I think it’s possible and I wouldn’t put it past SJM to be like -that was a clue- but it seems tacky and dismissive of her trauma) 

Azriel sees Gwyn grow and train. And I think there’s a part of him that’s like ‘damn this girl is cool’. And we all know what happens on solstice. With Elain and Azriel, I really would have loved it if we saw that kiss but I can’t shake the feeling that at this point they’re both just a little bit upset that all their friends are in relationships and they’re not. I know there’s more to their relationship than that and that Azriel can’t bear the scent of her mating bond but I think they’re both quite lonely at this point. 

Having said that I don’t think anyone acted wrongly on solstice. Regardless if Elain has strong feelings for Azriel she is well within her rights to kiss him and at this point Azriel isn’t flirting with Gwyn, his obsessive pining for Mor seems to have gone so he’s well within his rights too. And Azriel is damn hot. Good on them. Rhys also isn’t in the wrong, I made another Tumblr post explaining this :).

Azriel was hung up on Mor, Elain helped him see a different future. Or that a different future was possible so when Rhys forbids it, Azriel has found himself unattached, I guess, for the first time since he was 18. I don’t want to dismiss his feelings for Elain and say that he only used her but I think she was instrumental in making him realise what else he deserved. 

Azriel and Gwyn then flirt and Idk about you but that must have felt quite thrilling to him. Unashamedly flirting with someone, not worrying what someone else might think. Anyway the next morning Elain gives him back the necklace, whether she saying ‘I shouldn't be doing this’ or ‘I don’t want to do this’, it’s clear that for whatever reason she wants to forget what happened. And Azriel intends to return it but decides to give it to Gwyn. Now I know this is gonna cause tension somewhere but like I don’t completely hate him for this because he doesn't give it romantically, If anything him giving it to her triggers the romantic thoughts, and he gives it anonymously. 

We know that Gwyn and Azriel get closer after solstice, all the little. flirty bits with the ribbon. Ugh so cute. And we don’t know anything about Elain and Azriel’s relationship during those 3 months leading up to the Rite so for all we know they’re just getting on like they did before. But I think Azriel is enjoying flirting and being close to Gwyn. It’s a easy-going relationship so far without heavy demands and questions of fate, it’s just pretty normal. Yes they have a history to work through but we don’t know if they’ve confronted that between them. (BTW I would like to have a full version of ACOSF from Azriel’s perspective cool ) But I think regardless if Gwyn and Az are mates, they’ve found people they can just be themselves around and that’s kinda beautiful. 

In summation, Azriel is a complex individual. It might be that he doesn’t end up with either Elain or Gwyn, although I find it unlikely because the bonus chapter sets that up for some kind of love triangle. But I hope I made sense, I know it’s like word vomit but oh well :) I love Gwyn and Elain and I do not want them fighting over a male. That’s tacky and they’re both better than that. Personally I would love see Elain go on her own journey and heal and find her indepence. (I’m gonna make a post about this). But yeah I just want them all to be happy :)