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gojuo · 2 years

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Do you think Aemond loves his brother Aegon in the show? I feel a little bitter about how the showrunners have portrayed their relationship in the show. In the book I've always seen it as kind of tyrion / Jaime relationship, in fact all of alicent's children love each other there. But in the show its seems that they are trying to turn it into Aegon iv/ naerys/ aemon . Like how can they interpret Aegon II as Aegon IV? And Aemond of all people as Aemon the dragonknight? lmao

They desperately want to make aegon hated by all of his family for some reason. Even joffery wasn't hated by all of the lannisters, his mother loved him even if it's in her own way. Aegon in the other hand is hated by everyone except maybe for sunfyre lol

I don’t think Aegon is necessarily hated by his family members, just that they are disappointed with his debauchery and heedlessness towards duty. Aegon and Aemond present a united front from the “You may cuff him about as you wish at home, but in the world, we must defend our own,” line onwards:

In the Driftmark episode, Aemond lies about who told him about the Strong bastards rumor and Aegon takes the blame without blinking, protecting both Aemond and Alicent by going along with the lie.

This background dialogue insinuates that the brothers’ relationship is pretty normal and amicable, and not at all antagonistic. Aemond confides in Aegon concerning his grievances with Viserys' actions.

When Aegon provoked Jace and Baela and Jace stood up as if to talk back, Aemond stood up as well, essentially shutting the boy up and forcing him to sit back down. Aemond was protecting Aegon here.

When Aemond starts his Strong boys speech, Aegon is the only one to raise his cup when asked, smirking all the while, showing his support of his brother’s antics to the entire room.

When the scuffle between Jace and Aemond broke out, Luke tried to head over to his brother but Aegon stopped him in his tracks and slammed his head into the table, making Luke unable to aid Jace. Aegon shielded Aemond here by physically taking part in a fight that wasn’t really his.

Aemond’s line in the last episode: “Did you really think that you could just fly about the realm trying to steal my brother’s throne at no cost?”

To the outside world, Aegon II and Aemond make clear that they are loyal to one another, that they are brothers through and through, that they are one family. Such a thing was never present in Aegon IV and Aemon’s dynamic and relationship. For starters, Aegon II orders a statue to be made of Aemond and Daeron after their deaths and also orders that in all chronicles and court records the title of queen is only preserved for his mother and for Helaena, calling them the “true queens.” Let’s compare these small tidbits with the dynamic Aegon IV, Naerys and Aemon had:

TWOIAF, Aegon IV, p. 95:

It was said of Aegon that he never slept alone and did not count a night complete until he had spent himself in a woman. His carnal lusts were satiated by all manner of women, from the highest born of princesses to the meanest whore, and he seemed to make no difference between them. In his last years, Aegon claimed he had slept with at least nine hundred women (the exact number eluded him), but that he only truly loved nine. Queen Naerys, his sister, was not counted among them.

Aegon IV gives his bastard son one of the greatest symbols of Targaryen legitimacy, shocking the entire court by publicly favoring his bastard over his own trueborn son with Naerys. TWOIAF, Aegon IV, p. 95-96:

King Aegon knighted Daemon in his twelfth year when he won a squires’ tourney (thereby making him the youngest knight ever made in the time of the Targaryens, surpassing Maegor I) and shocked his court, kin, and council by bestowing upon him the sword of Aegon the Conqueror, Blackfyre, as well as lands and other honors.

Aegon IV greatly disliked Naerys and all of what she stood for, and made it publicly known he did so as well. He refused her plea to separate after giving him a son and the book insinuates he did it because he wanted her to suffer. TWOIAF, Aegon IV, p. 96:

Queen Naerys—the one woman Aegon IV bedded in whom he took no pleasure—was pious and gentle and frail, and all these things the king misliked. […] Naerys was said to address her brother thus: “I have done my duty by you, and given you an heir. I beg you, let us live henceforth as brother and sister.” We are told that Aegon replied: “That is what we are doing.” Aegon continued to insist his sister perform her wifely duties for the rest of her life.

Aegon IV quite literally tried to murder Aemon when he was 1.5 years old, like, really. Fire and Blood, p. 701:

On the eve of Smith’s Day, Larra of Lys gave Prince Viserys a second son, a large and lusty boy that the prince named Aemon. A feast was held to celebrate, and all rejoiced at the birth of this new prince… save mayhaps for his year-and-a-half-old brother, Aegon, who was discovered hitting the babe with the dragon’s egg that had been placed inside the cradle. No harm was done, for Aemon’s howls soon brought Lady Larra running to disarm and discipline her elder son.

Aegon IV made up false rumors that his son by Naerys was actually Aemon’s, which is a crime punishable by exile/death, and tried to disinherit his own trueborn heir Daeron in favor of his bastard Daemon. TWOIAF, Aegon IV, p. 96:

The king’s quarrels with his close kin became all the worse after his son Daeron grew old enough to voice his opinions. Kaeth’s Lives of Four Kings makes it plain that the false accusations of the queen’s adultery made by Ser Morgil Hastwyck were instigated by the king himself, though at the time Aegon denied it. […] It was also the first (but not the last) time that Aegon threatened to name one of his bastards as his heir instead of Daeron.

After the deaths of his siblings [Aemon and Naerys], the king began to make barely veiled references to his son’s alleged illegitimacy—something he dared only because the Dragonknight was dead.

Then, this is THEEE passage which shows how different the Aegon/Naerys/Aemon-dynamic is to the Aegon/Helaena/Aemond (and Daeron) one. TWOIAF, Aegon IV, p. 96:

Matters between them [Aegon and Naerys] were inflamed further by Prince Aemon, their brother, who had been inseperable from Naerys when they were young. Aegon’s resentment of his noble, celebrated brother was plain to all, for the king delighted in slighting Aemon and Naerys both at every turn. Even after the Dragonknight died in his defense, and Queen Naerys perished in childbed the year after, Aegon IV did little to honor their memory.

Contrast that to this passage. Dangerous Women, The Princess and the Queen, p. 783:

When his grief had passed, King Aegon II summoned his loyalists and made plans for his return to King’s Landing, to reclaim the Iron Throne and be reunited once again with his lady mother, the Queen Dowager, who had at last emerged triumphant over her great rival, if only by outliving her. “Rhaenyra was never a queen,” the king declared, insisting that henceforth, in all chronicles and court records, his half-sister be referred to only as “princess,” the title of queen being reserved only for his mother Alicent and his late wife and sister Helaena, the “true queens.” And so it was decreed.

And this one. Fire and Blood, p. 561:

During this time, Aegon II also commanded that the Dragonpit be restored and rebuilt, commissioned two huge statues of his brothers Aemond and Daeron (he decreed they should be larger than the Titan of Braavos, and covered in gold leaf), […]

Do you think Aegon IV would ever honor Naerys and Aemon in the way Aegon II did with Helaena and Aemond (and Daeron too, my poor forgotten boy...)? The relationship between Aegon II and Aemond is the exact opposite of Aegon IV and Aemon if I say so myself. Both in show and book.

TWOIAF, Aegon II, p. 77:

Aemond took up the mantle of Protector of the Realm and Prince Regent after both Aegon and Sunfyre were gravely injured at Rook’s Rest in the battle with Rhaenys and Meleys. He even donned his brother’s crown—Aegon the Conqueror’s crown of rubies and Valyrian steel—though he did not call himself king.

Fire and Blood, p. 437:

And so one-eyed Aemond the Kinslayer took up the iron-and-ruby crown of Aegon the Conqueror. “It looks better on me than it ever did on him,” the prince proclaimed. Yet Aemond did not assume the style of king, but named himself only Protector of the Realm and Prince Regent.

Can you imagine Aemon doing this with Aegon IV? Aegon IV would literally rather die than having Aemon rule in his stead and he would for sure have his brother’s head if Aemon had said what Aemond said here, lmao. Aegon IV despises Aemon and Aemon doesn’t care about mending the relationship. Aegon II and Aemond, however, are one team. They are BROTHERS. Both in the book and in the show.

About Aegon II and Helaena’s relationship… The one thing that is comparable to Aegon IV and Naerys is the fact that Aegon II also cheated on his wife (and PROBABLY fathered bastards; it isn't exactly confirmed). However even in that they are dissimilar because Aegon IV had public mistresses of high-rank who stayed in court for all to see together with him and Naerys. Aegon IV’s bastards also stayed in court together with Daeron II, his son and heir by Naerys. Aegon IV publicly humiliated his wife by allowing this and openly showed contempt towards his trueborn son Daeron II by favoring his mistresses’ children over him. And I mean… By spreading rumors of Naerys and Aemon having had an affair and that Daeron II was the result of said affair, Aegon IV essentially tried to have his own child exiled/executed since such a thing is high treason (Naerys and Aemon were dead by this point; Aegon IV never had the guts to spread the rumors while they were alive). Aegon II in contrast has never done such a thing.

Aegon II’s affairs were only with servants and prostitutes of King’s Landing, not high-ranking noble ladies who stayed in court together with the entire family. He may or may not have fathered bastards. It is not exactly confirmed to be undoubtedly true. Only Mushroom reported that he had 2 bastards but no other source talks about this and Mushroom never mentions those two bastards ever again outside of 1 line saying they exist somewhere. We can never be sure if they were actually real or not. Anyways, if we pretend they exist, then what is undoubtedly true is that Aegon II has never favored those two bastards over his children with Helaena in the way Aegon IV did. Aegon II never accused Helaena of high treason, Helaena never tried to beg Aegon II to relieve her of her “wifely duties” like Naerys did, Aegon II's affairs weren’t in front of Helaena’s face all the time like with Aegon IV who had all of his lovers live in the same castle with his wife, Aegon II might have bastards (and only 2) vs Aegon IV's canonically confirmed 15 bastards, etc. etc.

An example of Aegon trying to protect Helaena’s honor (to be fair her honor is not being insulted, but oh well). Fire and Blood, p. 387:

Still later, the fool reports, Aegon the Elder took offense when Jacaerys asked his wife, Helaena, for a dance. Angry words were exchanged, and the two princes might have come to blows if not for the intervention of the Kingsguard.

Helaena freely sasses him, hinting at an easy and light relationship between the two. Fire and Blood, p. 398:

Princess Helaena was breaking her fast with her children when the Kingsguard came to her... but when asked the whereabouts of Prince Aegon, her brother and husband, she said only, “He is not in my bed, you may be sure. Feel free to search beneath the blankets.”

He listens to her counsel and advice, meaning that he holds her in high regard concerning politics at the very least. Fire and Blood, p. 409.

Aegon would not hear of it. Septon Eustace tells us that His Grace accused the Grand Maester of disloyalty and spoke of having him thrown into a black cell “with your black friends.” But when the two queens—his mother, Queen Alicent, and his wife, Queen Helaena—spoke in favor of Orwyle’s proposal, the truculent king gave way reluctantly.

Aegon was devastated by Blood and Cheese and cared a great deal for his children. Fire and Blood, p. 425.

In his grief and fury, King Aegon II commanded that all the city’s ratcatchers be taken out and hanged, and this was done. […] Though Blood and Cheese had spared her life, Queen Helaena cannot be said to have survived that fateful dusk. Afterward she would not eat, nor bathe, nor leave her chambers, and she could no longer stand to look upon her son Maelor, knowing that she had named him to die. The king had no recourse but to take the boy from her and give him over to their mother, the Dowager Queen Alicent, to raise as if he were her own. Aegon and his wife slept separately thereafter, and Queen Helaena sank deeper and deeper into madness, whilst the king raged, and drank, and raged.

Aegon and Helaena slept in one bed together up until Blood and Cheese tore them apart, in stark contrast to Aegon IV who “never took pleasure” in Naerys.

Aegon II’s reason for accepting the crown was to protect himself, his brothers, his sister and his children. Fire and Blood, p. 398:

Only when Ser Criston convinced him that the princess must surely execute him and his brothers should she don the crown did Aegon waver. “Whilst any trueborn Targaryen yet lives, no Strong can ever hope to sit the Iron Throne,” Cole said. “Rhaenyra has no choice but to take your heads if she wishes her bastards to rule after her.” It was this, and only this, that persuaded Aegon to accept the crown that the small council was offering him.

Aegon II and Helaena had an okay relationship in the book. It was affable enough. Cheating aside, Helaena never went through the torment Naerys did by her husband’s hands. Aegon II & Helaena’s and Aegon IV & Naerys’ relationships are just not comparable to each other. Even in the show, even if there is dissent in the relationship, it’s not implied anywhere that Helaena is afraid of Aegon II or miserable in her marriage in the way that Naerys was. Aegon II mostly ignores her, apparently, except when he is drunk (hinting that he feels the need to be intoxicated in order to “do his duty” AKA have sex with her). In history, Aemon and Naerys are remembered as having loved each other (AGOT, Sansa III & Sansa IV and ACOK, Sansa VI). This is not the case for Helaena and Aemond. Those two have never been suggested as having been lovers within the canon. Those two have also literally never interacted with each other in the show… Like, I’m being serious. They’ve only ever stood next to each other and that’s literally it. This Helaemond crap is being shoved down our throats by the fandom, not the showrunners. And this is happening because Team Black wants some sick type of justification for Blood and Cheese by making Helaena’s children bastards, pretending like the Greens are hypocrites, as if Helaena and Alicent are anything like Rhaenyra. They want Jaehaerys to be Aemond's bastard because they want Daemon to be vindicated for the "a son for a son" line, instead of it being what it actually is: Daemon's senseless brutality and inhumanity. And I know this because I’ve seen it happening in real time.

To conclude, Aemond is disappointed with Aegon II’s immodesty but he is still loyal to T to his brother and his throne, and Aegon II supports and aids and trusts Aemond, and has mended their relationship after the eye incident. Aegon II and Aemond are the exact opposite of Aegon IV and Aemon, that’s just how it is. Their dynamics with each other just have nothing in common. Absolutely not in the book, but also not in the show.

#IM SORRRRRYYYYYYY FOR TAKING MONTHS TO ANSWER THIS I AM SORRY !!!!! I REALLY AM!!!!!#i dont know why it happened but it just did i just logged out and didn tlog back in for a while and IM SORRY!#hotd spoilers #aegon ii #aemond #helaena #aemon the dragonknight #naerys #aegon iv #hotd #asoiaf #hotd critical #anti helaemond #helaegon #anonymous #answered

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