#Men of Good Fortune

[avelera]

A few random thoughts about the comic issue of "Men of Good Fortune" in The Sandman and how they pertain to Dreamling as a ship based on the show.

I get the sense when reading MoGF that it's a... shall we say, "young" story? It's the sort of story that has its seeds in your high school creative writing class. You're learning about English history and you're also writing short stories and you think, "Wouldn't it be cool if two guys met every 100 years to talk about these events I'm learning about and it's the same guys because they're immortal?"

I say this in part because I wrote a similar story in high school without having read MoGF, but also because it's a very simple story with no actual plot arc, nothing actually changes by the end in the original comic. The addition of Dream "missing" the meeting adds a lot of weight and consequence that isn't there in the comic. The closest it gets is, "Dream says he's not going to come to the next 1989 meeting but then a bunch of stuff happens off screen and he shows up anyway, thus confirming they are indeed friends." That is barely a plot beat of any kind, nothing really changes, it just clarifies that they are friends, which we could have suspected the whole time.

Anyway, on that note, I've got a deep-seated suspicion that in the very earliest drafts of this story, Dream was Death. Because it makes sense. Death spares a commoner on the condition that he report back every century to tell about how his life is going. Also, Death is certain that this mortal will want to die at some point because of all the horrible things he's living through, but in the end he doesn't and they become friends.

Again, this is a very simple story, basically a fable. Then this story is lifted into a new setting, the Sandman universe, and the antagonist of Death is turned into Dream but Death is still there, because Death as a figure makes much more sense than Dream as the basis for this wager.

I've commented many times before that Hob has less than nothing to go on as far as guessing Dream's identity but that one very natural conclusion he could come to is that Dream is Death because Death is much easier and thematically consistent with what happens in the story than Dream. Dream even remarks in the show (paraphrased) that, "[He] is far more terrible than Death," which objectively makes very little sense other than in their personal mannerisms.

But Dream's curiosity as to Hob's will to live isn't all that consistent with his function as Lord of Dreams, can you really tell me that the Lord of Dreams can't conceive of a mortal that would want to live forever, who wouldn't dream of living forever? IMO this is one more piece of evidence that the story was lifted from an earlier draft where there is no Dream and Death, there is only Death and Hob, with Death left in as sort of a homage to the original premise and to explain why Dream would get involved at all in such a wager.

It also kind of explains why the implications of this centuries-long friendship get largely ignored until quite late in the Sandman comics. Dream would be Hob's only constant, at least that he can speak to and isn't like the Sun and the Moon or something, and yet our only nod to this is very very late in the comics.

Again, I think this is because in a fable about Death and A Normal Guy meeting over and over as a commentary on English history, it makes perfect sense that you wouldn't really explore the interpersonal implications of how Hob feels about this guy, if Hob cares about this guy, because it's Death, clearly this is just a fable.

But once it's not Death, once it's someone else, once Dream's interactions with this guy actually don't align with his function, actually rather glaringly doesn't align with his function such that his relationship with Hob actually becomes Dream's biggest singular point of individuality, the biggest piece of proof that he is an individual person and not just his function because watching this guy live has nothing to do with his function because he's not Death, then we also begin to wonder how important are these guys to one another, as individuals, because it's not a simple, streamlined fable anymore about Death and Just A Guy meeting.

Basically, I think that as is often the case, the inconsistencies are what give some of Gaiman's juvenilia works the charm that they have. They raise more questions than they answer, because they're not rigorously plotted and the implications of certain story decisions aren't explored, for example even how magic like immortality works in this world doesn't really make consistent sense (ex. Orpheus and Hob have very different immortalities within the same story despite both being gifted by Death, one can't choose to die whenever he wants and there's no explanation as to why this is other than The Story Demands It, which is rather clumsy but does lend to a sense of myth).

It's not until much later in the author's career in the comic and (retconned with) the show that the narratives begins to inquire into things like, "What do these two individuals mean to each other as people. Does Hob mourn Dream, or think of him when he's not there? Does the singularity of Hob in Dream's life matter to him, or give him pause?" all questions that would be absurd in a simplistic fable about Death and Just A Dude but once lifted from that original context, create fascinating inconsistencies that begin to matter and become fodder for deeper explorations as seen in fanfiction and shipping these two characters.

[writing-for-life]

MEN OF GOOD FORTUNE 1389-1589–Jill Thompson

MEN OF GOOD FORTUNE 1689-1889–Jill Thompson

MEN OF GOOD FORTUNE 1989–Jill Thompson

And just adding that these are well over a decade old and were done for a movie pitch…

[bobbole]

Hob vs Shakespeare: or capitalism vs Art (and the corresponding visions of immortality)

written for The Sandman Book Club

Leaving aside the holy transfiguration that has been made by fandom in recent years, the character of Hob is very significant. Representing the literary topos of the ordinary man, the man without qualities, the all-too-human human, he is characterized not by his virtues (and if we want, not even by his vices) but precisely by being a normal, banal creature, as all human creatures are in the eyes of the gods.

Hob's entry in Men of Good Fortune also has countless references in mythological literature. Two deities, Death and Dream, who observe human beings with the curiosity of those who never, or almost never, get down in the middle but are always up high (It might be interesting...). Can eternity be humanly bearable? Can a human being eternally refuse the embrace of death? It reminds me a little of the wager between God and the Devil on poor Job in the Bible: will Job be able to endure the most terrible misfortunes without denying the name of God?

But Hob isn't a man of faith. He does not see in eternal life a means to elevate himself as a human being but to enjoy earthly opportunities. He is an entrepreneur, an ante litteram capitalist: whether it is the war, the printing or the slave industry, Hob's actions have value as instruments to make money and a high standard of living. Love and pain, however great and lacerating, do not deter him from the one constant goal in a life full of ups and downs: to live forever. The ambition, precisely, of an ordinary man without qualities, whose interpretation of eternity can only coincide with the desire for the eternal, abundant satisfaction of materialistic needs.

Hob's vision of immortality is particularly jarring in a story full of great writers' cameos. Chaucer. Marlowe. Shakespeare. Immortals too, of another idea of immortality, achieved through art. There could not be a more stark contrast between these two visions and it is no coincidence that Hob's immortality is the result of a game between gods and human while that of the artists often is a deal with the divinity, be it benevolent or malevolent. Hob's immortality is an immortality without sacrifice, or rather, without there being anything really worth sacrificing for: no love is so great as to make him give it up. The immortality of the artist, on the other hand, is one for which the artist sacrifices everything, primarily himself.

Yet it is not the immortality of artists that we identify with. It fascinates us, seduces us, but it is to the immortality of the common man, the immortality of Hob, that most of us would look with envy. Capitalist immortality in a capitalist society: Live & Consume. Forever.

[orionsangel86]

I was once again flicking through the Sandman comics and thinking about the changes made to the show (as I am pretty much always doing) and something that struck me as interesting is why they chose to swap out Tales in the Sand for Men of Good Fortune.

In the comics, The Sound of Her Wings is the last story in Preludes and Nocturns. Dream’s meeting with his sister Death closes out the first of the overarching storylines within the Sandman saga, and it ends with Dream finding some measure of peace after speaking with her, and finding joy in hearing the sound of wings.

This can be interpreted as the first bit of real foreshadowing of Dream’s desire to die. Anyone who has read the Kindly Ones knows how important The Sound Of Her Wings is as it is called back to heavily at the end.

In the comics, the next issue can be seen as a one off, but is included in The Doll’s House book. This issue is Tales in the Sand - the tragic love story of Dream and Nada.

Right after Tales in the Sand, we get to the Doll’s House, which begins the exact same way that episode 6 of The Sandman Netflix show ends - with Desire calling on Despair to begin their scheming over the existance of the vortex.

I found it very interesting how the show swapped out Tales in the Sand for Men of Good Fortune - a story which in the comics comes much later within The Doll’s House storyline.

On the one hand, it makes sense to move Men of Good Fortune outside of the Doll’s House story for pacing reasons. But by putting it where they did they have drastically changed the tone of the story in a few ways.

1. It changes the end of The Sound of Her Wings. Show!Dream doesn’t leave his sister to sit and find peace in the thought of death, instead he does the opposite, he immediately goes and seeks out the one person he knows who is quite literally the antithesis of death - someone who finds joy in living. It still ends the Preludes and Nocturns story with Dream finding some manner of peace and happiness, but not in the sound of wings. Instead, it’s in the reunion with his friend who loves life so much he refuses to die.

2. It takes the place of the only love story we are given for Dream at that point in the comics. The Sandman comics have a tendency to avoid revealling too much information about Dream too soon and up until this point in the comics, all we know about his love life is that he condemned a lover to hell 10,000 years ago, based on a very brief conversation in A Hope In Hell. Tales in the Sand is the expansion of that brief conversation, giving us at least one perspective of how the tragedy played out.

I am really curious about why they decided to leave it out of the show completely. Partly I think its because it isn’t exactly a flattering look at Dream as a character. Probably didn’t seem like good business sense to the people who wanted The Sandman to perform well to basically destroy your main characters likeability half way through the first season (imagine all the Twitter puriteens and anti types who would get on their high horses attacking Sandman fans and Neil Gaiman alike for daring to like a main character who comes across a little bit rapey in this particular story - among other horrific character flaws).

Also, Tales in the Sand generally fits better with the Season of Mists story arc overall, and I think we will get a much kinder and more forgiving version of this story in the show.

So instead of being introduced to the first of Dream’s lovers, we are introduced to Hob Gadling. Make of that what you will.

3. It makes the immediate cut to Desire at the start of The Doll’s House story all the more eyebrow raising. Part of the reason why I think Desire’s scenes follow on from Tales in the Sand is because Desire had a lot to do with Dream’s bad behaviour in that story, and what ultimately happened is partly their fault. It is brought up both in comic and show when Desire tells Despair that “Nada was a mistake” but in the show, this comment remains a mystery, whereas in the comic, it goes some way into explaining the horrific story we have just read.

In the show, instead it makes for absolutely beautiful subtext as they cut to Desire’s realm and the song Desire as Desire says “Attend sweet Sibling” whilst we have just watched Dream reunite with Hob and smile the first real smile he has had all season so far. For a split second on my first watch I legit thought Desire was talking to Dream at that point and encouraging him to hook up with Hob. It was a very confusing few seconds!

At the end of the day, I think the change to the order of these stories was a very good idea, even without the added level of shipping fodder it gives us Dreamling shippers. In changing the end to The Sound of Her Wings in the show, it removes the foreshadowing of Dream’s desire to die, which I’ll be honest, so far I can’t see at all in the show version of the story. Instead, we get a Dream who is happy for the first time after reuniting with his friend - who apparently waited an additional 33 years for him and built/refurbished a pub in that time.

I have a bazzillion more thoughts on the changes from comic to show on the Men of Good Fortune issue in particular, but that’s for another post. I just had to get my thoughts down as the more I read and re-read the comics, the more I feel like the show is considering a different direction, a more hopeful happy direction. But I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

[sweet-like-cinnamon-5]

Sandman Audible - Favorite James McAvoy Line Readings - Sound of Her Wings / Men of Good Fortune

The Sandman Book Club has been discussing The Sound of Her Wings / Men of Good Fortune for the past few weeks, so I am now sharing my:

Favorite James McAvoy Line Readings from the Sandman Audible for these episodes (because his line readings are glorious)

The Bread (Sound of Her Wings)

So in the comic and the TV show, Death throws the bread at Dream, and obviously he doesn't feel the need to describe what happened. But in the Audible, there's a "thump" noise and then he says: "You... threw the bread at me" in such a tone of shock.

The Matted Hair (Men of Good Fortune)

Death and Dream are about to go into the tavern for the first time. Dream is unimpressed by what he sees, and says this:

"The human world. I could conjure a nightmare from these faces. The missing teeth, the pocked skin, the matted hair."

His delivery of "the matted hair" has no business being as funny as it is, lmao

The Appointed Hour (Men of Good Fortune)

Finally, it's 1989. Hob thinks he's being stood up, but in the comic/Audible version of things, he is not!

The bartender/waitress has been teasing Hob (or "Bob," as she knows him). Then the door opens and she sees Dream and says, "Oh Bob! Your friend's here!"

And then Dream says:

"AT THE APPOINTED HOUR!"

Honestly. James McAvoy says it so proudly. I picture him like kicking the door open and yelling his hello to the entire bar. It. is. so. great. (It is also the exact opposite of any way I could ever picture Tom Sturridge's version of Dream ever greeting anybody ever. But in the audiobook, it is perfect.)

(It's funny to me also that the bartender recognizes Dream as "Bob's friend." I can just imagine Hob being like- "ok so I'm waiting for someone, he has pale skin [like VERY pale skin], black hair, his eyes are sometimes stars, and his clothing is always era appropriate. like he definitely looks like he's dressed for the correct year. can you let me know if you see him?" And the bartender being like uh huh sure thing bob)

[malice-kingdom]

[robotshowtunes]

Happy 634th Anniversary, Dreamling! 🏳️‍🌈

[grymorfinon]

SPOILERS FOR LIKE, ALL OF THE SANDMAN

Concerning Dream and Hob’s meetings:

If they are able to adapt The Sandman all the way through The Wake, what i hope is that when they adapt this moment in The Kindly Ones, they frame it in a way that parallels the scene in The Sound of Her Wings. In both of these moments Hob is standing in the street telling Dream the truth, that what Dream is doing is essentially running away from the people he cares about all for the sake of his pride, and in both cases Dream’s nature keeps him from fully accepting it. Even though in the latter he is much more kind about it.

Their relationship is something that is definitely played up to be more romantic in the show than it was in the comics (not that I'm complaining) but in both cases it’s clear how much the two care about each other.

[rastronomicals]

8:03 PM EST January 16, 2024:

Lou Reed - “Men of Good Fortune” From the album Berlin (July 1973)

Last song scrobbled from iTunes at Last.fm

–

[the-everqueen]

that one scene in the audio drama version of "Men of Good Fortune"

h*b: friendship. [smyECK] OI fink yoa lonely.

dream of the mcavoy: [heaugheughgughghgh] [hhhhhhhhh] [appallingly loud close-mic chair creak] y-you. da-are. you. daAare. imply that *i* might befriend a morTAL?? that one of MY kind might need comPAN-IONship?? YOUDAAAAARE to CALL ME LONELY???!??!?!!?!?!??! [frantic chair hits, furniture scrapes, door slams, screaming, crying, pissing, shitting, falling over and exploding,]

[writing-for-life]

@windsweptinred , I need to reblog because I can only put panels in here.

So, the reason why I associate Daniel with red roses (apart from poppies) is because of the way Zulli uses roses specifically in both “The Wake” and “Men of Good Fortune”.

Morpheus’ roses are blue, Daniel’s are red.

Morpheus:

Just two exemplary panels here, they really are all over The Wake—the wreaths etc, and even his barge is decked in them. They are symbolic for grief, but also the unattainable. I wrote about this before:

Daniel:

(Again, just the most obvious ones)

The only time we diverge from this is in Men of Good Fortune. And we see Morpheus tossing the red rose.

And then they show up again on the cups, and we are specifically zooming in on them when Hob asks for his name.

The red roses were always a symbol for emotional availability for me (we could call it love, but I’d like to avoid the romantic connotations in this context because I really don’t think that’s what this is about).

And to me, they were always exemplary for Morpheus not being emotionally available at this point (he throws it away), and the further conversation is of course cut short by Johanna.

But Daniel is not that. He is kinder, he is emotionally available from the start. He is not scared to be seen and see others, if that makes any sense?

Welcome to my Danny/Murphy roses head-canon, but since Zulli is (was 🥺) so meticulous with his symbolism, I don’t believe for a second this is coincidental. And even if it were: It has the meaning we assign to it I guess 😉

OK so I've got my sigil tattoo, but I'd really love a tat alongside it on my upperarm to represent Daniel. (I've always linked the helm more with Morpheus.) Any ideas?

[writing-for-life]

Hob Gadling—Phil Cho (Earth 27 Commission)

[mellpenscorner]

Jane Austen: and here we have the love interest. He might have some issues, but once you get to know him, he's a great guy. Good looking, heart of gold, the works.

Charlotte Brontë: get ready for the weirdest man you have ever met.

[thebirdandhersong]

happy to report the agony is starting to fade a little !!

[texaschainsawmascara]

huge day for thirsty bitches

[crashhole]

Resurrection of Magneto #1 was incredible! I’ve mapped out Storm’s journey by correlating the tarot imagery. Interestingly, she is not taking the lightning path despite her motif, instead starting at Malkuth heading to Netzach, followed by Hod and ending in Gavurah.

Magneto as the 5 of Cups in the Broken City (Gavurah)

Storm as the 7 of Cups in the Waiting Room (Netzach)

Tarn as the Hermit (or maybe the Devil but I’m leaning Hermit due to the serpent imagery)

The 7 of Cups featuring the Wheel of Fortune

Ashake, servant of the goddess Ma’at, as Adjustment (Justice), but the black cat and magical attributes are also giving Queen of Wands

Storm as the Tower

The Domains as the Sun in Domain Space (Hod) peeking into Beyonder Space (Yesod)

Storm and Magneto as the Hanged Man

Storm as the 5 of Swords, featuring elements of the 5 of Cups, in the Broken City (Gavurah)