#Mema Interretialia

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Sex Milia Secutorum! Multas Gratias Vobis Agito!

6,000 Followers! Thank You Very Much!

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Hi! Short question if you're up for it: I'm currently translating the sentence "For 3 years of friendship and hopefully a lot more" into Latin for a gift anf was wondering whether there's do different forms of "a lot more" implying either "a lot more (than friendship)" or "a lot more (than 3 years)" in Latin so I use the right one! Thank you so much, should you have an answer!

Salve,

Sure, I would be happy to answer this.

It is the case that the two interpretations would require different expressions in Latin for the English phrase that you are translating.

“a lot more” implying “a lot more (than friendship)” requires you to say: Tres annos amicitiae et, ut spero, multo maioris rei (quam amicitiae). The comparison is a qualitative one, hence the use of the word maioris (and not pluris) along with a noun of general applicability. The operative word of the comparison is the “(of) friendship,” so it is in the genitive (i.e., explanatory genitive), and the maioris rei, amicitiae (after quam), take the same case.

“a lot more” implying “a lot more (than 3 years)” requires you to say: Tres annos amicitiae et, ut spero, multo plures (quam tres annos). The comparison relates to numbers of years, hence the use of the masculine adjective plures. The operative words of the comparison are the “(For) three years,” so it is in the accusative (i.e., accusative of duration of time), and the plures, annos (after quam), take the same case.

Utinam hoc tibi prosit! I hope this is helpful!

Vale.

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Versio Nova Paginae "About the Author" / New Version of the  "About the Author" Page

I finally updated it to indicate that I am a prof working at a university.

Look:

https://interretialia.tumblr.com/author/

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Quinque Milia Secutorum et Nongenti! Multas Gratias Vobis Agito!

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Felicem Vigiliam Natalis Ioannis! / Merry Ianmas!

Yay!

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Aliquid Aliud Novum / Something Else New

There is something else new on the right...

25 Other Things

25 Other Things Your Latin Teacher Probably Never Told You

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Quinque Milia Secutorum et Sescenti! Multas Gratias Vobis Agito!

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Quinque Milia Secutorum et Quingenti! Multas Gratias Vobis Agito!

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Quinque Milia Secutorum et Octingenti! Multas Gratias Vobis Agito!

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Quinque Milia Secutorum et Septingenti! Multas Gratias Vobis Agito!

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Quinque Milia Secutorum et Quadringenti! Multas Gratias Vobis Agito!

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Aliquid Novum / Something New

There is something new on the right...

50 Things

50 Things Your Latin Teacher Probably Never Told You

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Salve! Is there a certain thought process you use when choosing how to form modern English phrases into Latin?

How do you choose which form of a verb/noun to use and decide between a plethora of synonyms?

Salve et tu!

Those are some good questions.

When I go to render modern English into Latin, the first thing that I do is think about the overall meaning of the English text and then try to think of some corresponding ideas according to the Latin idiom. I almost always consult Meissner’s Latin Phrasebook when I am at the “Latin idiom” stage of the process. This Meissner’s Latin Phrasebook is very helpful because it contains idiomatic Latin phrases (from the works of Cicero, Caesar, Livy, and others) which serve as translations of English phrases and terms which are relevant to many areas of life (e.g., parts of the body, the arts and sciences, and war). Unfortunately, this book is more than one hundred years old, so its usefulness is limited. If I cannot find the right phrase in this book, I usually then go to the Loeb Classical Library’s site and search for the English phrase, and then I see if I can find any place in Latin literature which corresponds to an English translation which contains the phrase. If this does not work, then I consult the latest edition of John Traupman’s New College Latin & English Dictionary, which contains many Neo-Latin terms. If I am still stuck, I look at Meissner’s Latin Phrasebook again to find a phrase which is similar in meaning to what I want to say in Latin and then change it a little to fit my needs. I might instead simply render the basic meaning of the English into Latin, using the “Preliminary Hints” section (comprising the sections “Avoid poetic, unusual, or late words” and “Use words in their normal Latin meaning” and “Translate thoughts, not words” and so on) of Bradley’s Arnold Latin Prose Composition as a guide. Sometimes there are instances where I just translate the English into Latin verbatim because the individual English words appear to be as important to the presentation as the ideas which they express.

Deciding on a particular word among several synonyms is often not too difficult. Latin has many synonyms, but almost none of them are truly interchangeable. (Lumen and lux, for example, might be interchanged in poetry, but that comes about due to poetic license, and there is indeed a difference: lux is light itself and lumen, which has the instrumental suffix -men, is a light source—a luc-men—like a lamp or the sun.) If I have trouble deciding on a particular word, I might consult Dumesnil’s Latin Synonyms or Döderlein’s Hand-book of Latin Synonyms. They are helpful, but again they are more than one hundred years old, so their translations do not always correspond to contemporary English (e.g., they might use the word passion to mean “suffering” rather than “strong feeling or emotion”). When it comes to more modern terms, I typically look at what Vicipaedia, the Latin Wikipedia, has to say about them. I also consult the latest addition of Traupman’s Conversational Latin for Oral Proficiency because this has a large Latin term list near the end. I also search through various other Neo-Latin sources like:

The Morgan-Owens Neo-Latin Lexicon;  

Morgan’s Lexicon Latinum;  

Lexicon Latinum Hodiernum;  

Philosophia Latine Disserenda;  

Latinitas Recens.

If I find variant translations of something, I decide on a translation according to these criteria:

whether the term is morphologically or syntactically valid according to the formation procedures which the Romans themselves employed (e.g., possestrix is good but the “possessrix” which appears in the Lexicon Latinum Hodiernum is garbage);  

whether a variant of a term shows up in more than one of the sources;  

whether the term comprises a single word or more than one word;  

whether the term employs just Latin word elements or non-Latin elements like those from Greek or the modern Romance languages;  

just plain euphony.

You might wonder how Neo-Latinists create neologisms. The first thing to realize is the fact that Latin is quite adverse to neologisms in general. The Roman writers and their later counterparts have been avoiding the creation of new words. They instead are more likely to write circumlocutions or paraphrases. (Writers are not always as steadfast about avoiding new words as Tacitus is at Annales 1.65 where he avoids calling spades spades, but sometimes they do come close.) Still, there might be times when neologisms are necessary. Fortunately, Latin is robust enough to have several options to coin new words. The options that we have are:

We can take an already-existing word and give it a new meaning (e.g., pellicula, originally “little hide,” but having the Neo-Latin meaning “movie” or “film”).  

We can import a non-Latin word into the language and give it a Latin form (e.g., kimonum, from kimono, and the adjective iazzicus, from jazz). The Romans were doing this with Greek words for centuries, as seen in words like philosophia and polypus.  

We can use the rules of Latin composition and derivation to create new Latin-form words (e.g., interrete, from inter and rete, for “internet,” and basipila, from basis and pila, for “baseball,” and even caeliscalpium, from caelum and scalpere, for “skyscraper”).  

We can look to certain modern languages, like Greek and the Romance languages, to find modern phrases and then invent Latin calques of such terms (e.g., pomum terrestre for “potato,” which is a calque of the French phrase pomme de terre).

I believe what determines which of these to use in a particular situation has to do with the ease through which someone can deduce a neologism’s meaning according to its morphological or syntactical resemblance to modern terms.

Perhaps you noticed that although I create a lot of Latin compound words and derivatives, I rarely use any of them in my actual translations. That is intentional. I am following the typical Latinist procedure of creating and mentioning neologisms only when they are needed while at the same time working primarily with already existing and familiar Latin words. Most of the neologisms that I create exist because they are meant to demonstrate my skills in linguistics and wordsmithery. I want to see how these new words look and sound. And I create these words for fun. When I do my translations, however, I want to make it so that as many people as possible can understand what I want to say without having to rely too much on the idiosyncrasy of my neologisms. I think that anyone who knows how to read Latin should be able to work out the essential meanings of my translations.

Utinam hoc tibi prosit! I hope this is helpful!

Vale.

[interretialia]

hi there! i really liked your explanation of the -ensis suffix. would you be able to explain a little the differences between the genitive romae vs romanus vs romanensis? when is it appropriate to use each, when they all kinda mean “belonging to rome”? thank you!

Salve!

Gratias. I am glad you like that essay.

In general, the genitive form of a noun and a “genitival” adjective deriving from that noun are similar in that they both can have the meaning “...of x” (where x denotes to what the base noun refers), and they also can be attributive modifiers or predicative complements. Moreover, Latin occasionally permits a “genitival” adjective in a context that might be expected to call for a genitive (e.g., Aeneia nutrix, “Aeneas’ nurse”). The genitive and the “genitival” adjective are, however, not entirely commutable. The differences are:

The genitive is a case form of a lexeme (or vocabulary item) while the “genitival” adjective is its own distinct lexeme.  

The genitive is the typical way of saying “...of x” in Latin, and one must be ready to use this form first whenever that meaning is needed because it turns out that some “genitival” adjectives do not exist together with their base nouns, and when such adjectives do not exist, one must use the genitive.  

Only the genitive expresses a genuine individual relationship of possession, and the “genitival” adjective tends to indicate more generally the origin, type, manner, or naming. So, the genitive emphasizes possession, and the “genitival” adjective emphasizes characterization.

In many cases, Romae corresponds to our “of Rome,” and Romanus corresponds to our “Roman.” The Thermae Romae, then, are the Baths of Rome, and this phrase indicates (by the case form Romae itself) the baths’ relation to the city and also indicates (by the typical genitive meaning of that case form) that the baths belong to the city or at least are in sections of the city. Thermae Romanae, though, are Roman baths, and the difference between this phrase and the previous phrase can be shown by contrasting Thermae Romanae with baths from some other city, baths built in a particular style, or baths falling into some naming scheme. I could talk about the Thermae Romanae on the one hand and onsen in Matsuyama in Japan, or Thermae Matuiamanae, on the other! There is a place called Komi Sushi in modern Rome not far from the Gardens of Sallust (Horti Sallustiani), and it is both a taberna Iaponica and a taberna Romae, a Japanese restaurant and a restaurant of Rome.

The distinction between Romanus and Romanensis (and even the longer form Romaniensis) mainly has to do with frequency in usage. Romanus is the typical adjective from Roma. If you want to say, “of Rome” or “from Rome” or “having to do with Rome” or just “Roman,” you would almost always use Romanus. It is the word that you would typically learn in elementary Latin courses. The adjectives in -(i)ensis, however, are much rarer. Cato the Elder in De Agri Cultura talks about sal Romaniensis, or Roman salt. It is hard to find other instances of these words in Roman literature. Another distinction is the fact that the words in -(i)ensis can refer only to a place, and so at least the Romanensis form has a specific meaning, which seems to be found only in epigraphic sources: “Belonging to a locality having the epithet Romanus” (OLD s.v. Romanensis).

Utinam hoc tibi prosit! I hope this is helpful!

Vale.

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Where are you from?

Salve!

In maxima urbe Visconsiniae, Milvauchiae, natus sum. A nono anno meo usque ad duodevicensimum annum meum in suburbio Sicagi Illinoesiae, Machenrianae, et in suburbio Franciscopoleos Californiae, Valleianae, habitabam, quamquam paene omne hoc tempus Machenrianae tantum ductum est, ubi Orientem Machenrianae Scholam Superiorem frequentabam. Deinde, postquam in urbem meam patriam redii, Universitatem Visconsiniae apud Milvauchiam frequentare coepi. Dum in suburbio Milvauchiae, Alle Occidenti, habito, primum gradum meum baccalaureum accepi. Viginti et septem annos natus in suburbium Halifaxiae Novae Scotiae, Derstemutam, migravi ut cum Melissa, mea uxore, et parentibus Melissae cohabitarem. Inde biennio post ego Melissaque in caput Novi Brunsvici, Fredericopolim, migravimus et Universitatem Novi Brunsvici frequentare coepi. Denique, anno a migratione nostra Fredericopolitana facta quinto, dum secundus gradus meus baccalaureus in manus meas cadere se parat, migravimus in caput Albertae, Edmontonum. In qua urbe nunc adhuc habitamus et abhinc paucos annos civis Canadensis factus sum et est novus studendi locus meus, Universitas Albertensis, e qua iam gradum meum magistralem accepi et in qua mox doctoris gradu ornatus ero.

Utinam hoc tibi prosit!

Vale.

[interretialia]

Felicem Diem Anniversarium Decimum Memorum Interretialium!

Happy 10th Anniversary of Mema Interretialia!

Fugaces labuntur anni!

But do see my first post!

Here is the meme: