#MarvStroke

[dogmeatthedead]

Hey, this was fun to read. If you don't mind, I'm going to throw in my two sense as a long time Deathstroke Fan whose favorite run is the original.

The Deathstroke the Terminator run came out about 11 years after he was originally created. I'll say up front that Marv Wolfman's vision for Deathstroke was very different from how most people actually viewed him. He was a morally grey mercenary, don't get me wrong, but people tend to overly associate that with the character that he is now. They see the evil that he did during Judas Contract and run with that when about a year after that arc concluded (but shortly after in terms of Slade's actually appearances), Marv was already trying his hardest to disavow that version of the character.

Starting with Tales of the Teen Titans #54, "Blind Justice!" and going into #55 "Shades of Grey" Slade Wilson was on trial for being Deathstroke and Beast Boy wants to kill him for everything that happened to Tara. Hijinks ensue and the mini arc ends with Slade more or less manipulating Garfield into believing his version of events that took place during the Judas Contract. This version paints Slade as pretty much the scared victim and Tara as the evil villain. This establishes that Slade will change the version of events to make himself sound better.

In real life though, this is pretty much because Marv Wolfman has a radically different view of who Slade was and the direction he wanted to take Deathstroke than he had originally framed out. But the longer you read the Deathstroke the Terminator run, you see that it's basically a narrative retelling of Slade's adventures as told by either Slade himself or Wintergreen.

Now my personal head cannon that the entire Deathstroke the Terminator run is unreliably told by people in universe people trying their hardest to make Slade sound better than he really is; so the run really isn't out of character for the Deathstroke that we were seeing at the time.

Moving a little further from Tales of the Teen Titans into New Titans and around 5 years later, Slade comes back as pretty much an anti-hero helping clean up the Terminator Plague that he helped cause. Following that, he gets his soft launch issue, "Clay Pigeons."

At this point in time, Marv Wolfman could do no wrong with DC and Marv loved this character so in New Titans #70 Slade got his own issue that served as a soft launch for his own comic book series that would come out around a year later. In "Clay Pigeons" Slade is helping set up a better government in a small country and while he does it for a fee, he ultimately makes the "best" decisions to set up the "good" people in the country. It pretty perfectly sets the tone for what one could expect for the Deathstroke the Terminator books run.

During the year between New Titans #70 and Deathstroke the Terminator #1, Slade appears in quite a few other issues all of which continue to establish this "bad guy with a heart of gold" version of the character that Marv was working so hard to establish.

Deathstroke the Terminator when looking at the issues written by Wolfman, as a whole is a meditation on a broken man trying to reconcile violent actions and a violent nature with wanting a calm life, and ethics that have been twisted by trauma while still knowing deep down right from wrong. Loosely so I give you, but I think if there were to be a grand take away, it would be that. All of this is clouded through the view of the characters in universe, which I think was intentional from Marv.

Yeah, Slade tends to "change" quite a bit between arcs because not only is the narrative unreliable, with Slade trying to pivot the story between him being a stone cold killer and Wintergreen trying to show the man. All this leads to the feeling you get of the character changing so often. That and the fact that it's (off and on again) framed as being a telling of Wintergreen's journal. So a retelling of events rather than following as things actually happen which can lead to this tonal flip flopping.

As to your other point of Slade being at his most interesting "when he's a side character because he's closer to his original," I'd hope that by this point I've made it clear that unless your only counting the very first 9-10 issues that Deathstroke ever appeared in, the Slade that appears in the Deathstroke the Terminator book is very close to the original. Just not close to the version of the character that most people assume him to be, and for sure not the character that he's been bastardized into becoming.

Or I'm totally off and just waxing poetically about a book that I've read far to into. Which I totally admit, I've read far to into this book, and care way to much about the Marv Wolfman version of the character.

It's always good to see new readers get into the book, and I've just wanted an excuse to write something out. Hope you give the other books a chance, but guessing from your other posts, you have. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the rest of the run.

Deathstroke the Terminator Vol 1

Do you want to read Slade Wilson strike it out on his own in his first stand-alone comic? Read this.

This is one of those comics which could have been so good if it wasn't being held back by the time period it's being written in. Despite the fact that this comic isn't actually that long after the character was created it's clear they don't really know what direction they want to take him. Every arch seems like it's trying for a new 'take' on the character instead of being a connected story. And because of the time period a lot of those takes are very Action Hero or Cyber Tech which doesn't super work for Slade.

The stories that are the best tend to be the ones where he's almost a side character to someone else's story. Which I think is more just because those stories tend to have his characterization closer to his original (the morally gray mercenary who keeps ending up as people's mentor) not because Slade can't carry a story as the lead. Because there are also ones where he is the lead where it works, but again, those are the ones that stick more to his original characterization and are less trying to change the status quo.

Should you read it? There's some stories in here that are fun but I probably wouldn't suggest reading the whole thing. If it's guest starring someone (especially Vigilante) chances are it's one of the good ones.

[dogmeatthedead]

How Deathstroke and Wintergreen met

Best friends; they can be a good influence or someone that you raise hell with. The friendship between Slade Wilson and William Wintergreen most definitely falls squarely into the latter. From heroic deeds, to not so heroic ones, from emotional moments to silly pranks, they seem to be best of friends. So where did this deep bond come from and just how strong is it really? But before that I want to talk real quick about their relationship. Don't get me wrong, I love it, I really do but....... it's not exactly healthy. I'm not saying its bad, just that its maybe not the healthiest. 

^some fanart I commissioned years ago now

This is a quick introduction, and talks the most about loyalty, so you won't understand what I'm talking about here. I just wanted to keep this relativity short because trust me, I could keep going on and on, but this is just the introduction if you will before I go on about the more complicated stuff.

Which version can I trust?

As so many things are with comic continuity, there are multiple different origins, however rather than go for the total slap in the face that is the version from Deathstroke rebirth, I shall go with the far superior Pre New 52’s version.

The Beginning 

Ironically, it all began because Slade and Will switched roles.

Now I do have a purpose for saying this. Slade is the “villain” of the friendship, while Will is often seen as the moral compass; and while I do have issues with this form of classification, it works with what I’m trying to say. The direct cause of their friendship was that Slade acted morally while Will broke regs. The man whose orders Slade disobeyed is named Sampson, remember that, it’ll become important later.

The manner in which they met reflects their future relationship, which is to say that when Will stopped Slade from getting beat up it established that they would trade off helping each other.

The beginning may have showed how they met but let’s move onto how they became friends.

Establishing of the friendship

There early friendship seems to be heavily based on trading life debts/ getting people out of fights.

As mentioned above, They met because Will won a fight for Slade, but Will got another win after Samson, still upset over Slade disobeying him, sent a young Slade on a suicide mission. However the universe is a dick and the mission was a success however Slade was caught in an explosion.

This time Will broke ranks and saved Slade, something that Sampson never forgot and as Will says next he faced the wrath of General Sampson.

But rather than that, we need to take a detour first.

My classmate who is in the army, and from what I’ve witnessed for my self in the little time that I’ve served is that once you make a friend in the military, you’re friends for life. You don’t need to keep in contact, but once you see each other again, no matter how long you’ve been apart, its like you were never away.

Which is pretty clearly what happened here.

Will was then Slade’s best man, and so far as cannon tells, they were never separated again. From best man Will stayed at Slade’s side during the enhancements, and fought the government to see Slade when the tests went south.

Slade repays his life debt 

Remember when Wintergreen disobeyed Sampson aka king of sending people on death missions? Well Sampson did it again. 

He assigned Will on a job which failed, and resulted in Will being captured and tortured by the vietcong. Sampson knew that Will’s heart would have failed and he wouldn’t have survived his captivity.

Slade was not stationed with Will during this mission, rather he found out that Will had been captured a week after Joey was born. At this point, Slade was stationed as a desk jockey in the Army. After he got his enchantments Slade’s powers fluctuated between super strength and being paralyzed. The army declared his unfit to serve in action and this jaded Slade towards them so that when his powers stabilized, he hid it from them knowing that if he told them, and work he was wouldn’t have been offered in sincerity. For someone like Slade, that would have been hell. Anyway, that’s why he wasn’t stationed with Wintergreen. 

Slade showed up anyway and saved Will in the garish outfit. An amusing look at Deathstroke's proto suit.

Look not that this matters or is relevant but this whole scene is part of why I think that Rebirth’s story is just plainly bad. Obligatory in my opinion disclaimer.  When they meet in rebirth Slade and Will don’t know each other, there's no connection. Unlike DS classic where they start their relationship off with Wintergreen (who one could argue is the weaker in the relationship normally) is in the position of power. It establishes that Slade started his career out as the student and as a flawed human thus perversely mirroring his relationships with other character. Honestly I could make a whole post on just this but I wanted to add it. 

Plus Slade’s proto suit in rebirth is bland and uninspired. It totally lacks personality, yeah it “looks better” but I never thought that this suit was meant to look good, it looks like he made it to scare the living shit out of people like a jungle god or someshit. Okay mini rant over.

Remember Sampson? Yeah I’ve mentioned him a few times. Anyway, after Slade saved Will Sampson essentially forced Slade into retirement.

Forced out of a commission that he EARNED for being a damn amazing soldier, not viz blackmail. F*ck you very much Priest!

Moving forward

Slade needs both someone to love and someone to love him (one of the only things Priest and I agree on) After Addie shot Slade, Will took her place.

  There really isn’t all that much more to talk about without rehashing almost the entirety of the 90’s run.

Let’s review

Slade and Will became friends and stayed friends due to a “horse’s ass of a soldier” named Sampson, would continue being best of friends through tragedy and at least one divorce (Not counting Will’s vaguely mentioned ones which would bring the score up to a shared five)

So their best friends, but just how loyal are they?

Short, boring answer? Extremely.

Longer, more fun answer? Let’s look at a few of my favorite examples.

This is from the Sins of the Father arc from the first run (an arc that I can’t recommend enough by the way.) Wherein the sins committed by Will’s father comes back to haunt him. Slade and Will “commandeer” a plane, and in the process Will almost gets cut in half by the plane’s wing before Slade saves him.

All taken from issue 50 of the original run, (Part of the crime boss crossover arc I think.) Slade is going on what looked like a death mission, and he laments not having Wintergreen besides him. Que Will showing up, and for the first time in (I’m pretty sure at least) the whole arc, Slade smiles.

I could use these images as being proof enough alone, but I though I’d add the others as well.

“What are you talking about? Will’s just sitting there.”

Yeah, its plain and kinda boring, but the context is that Will is sitting there outside the operating room just waiting for Slade to get out after he was in an explosion. I don’t know why, but this just hits me in the feels for some reason. He doesn’t say anything to Steel, but its like he’s saying where else would I be? Slade was with Will when he was in hospital in Germany, and even set up a hospital at his house so that Will could recover from injuries at home. Where else would Will be when Slade is hurt. He said it best-  they’ve been with each other countless times at deaths door, they’ve been each others everything for  over 25 years.

[scintillant-h]

Ahhh... Mary Sue excuse to talk about how awesome he is, which characters do SO CONSTANTLY in this series, even the original Mary Sue would be jealous. 

He was complimented and hit on by women during the MarvStroke run, but it was NOTHING like this. It was put in orchestrated context, was accented on and detracted from appropriately per scene to keep it from being Sue (though I recall an exception or two).

... does she have no pupils? You know... neither did Rose in that flashback, I don’t think... why does Kirkham hate pupils?

[dogmeatthedead]

Hiiiii I love MarvStroke so I’ll try to help.

There are scattered examples and I’m just listed the ones that are coming to my mind. They are fleeting comments and aren’t dwelt on too long. First one that comes to mind is from the early titans books. Evil Joey has Slade tied to a rocket/ bomb and is saying how Slade could never show love and says something like “but from what I hear about your father, I shouldn’t be suppried you cant show love.”

Next is from a flashback during the hunted arc I think. Slade is saying who Frannie (his ex-step father) is and how she wised up to being married to his father and left him.

Same arc and issue: Slade admits that he and his father aren’t close, thought doesn’t say why.

Pretty damning here is Slade saying Wade (his half brother) is evil because he has his fathers genes in him.

Here’s another pannel from the sins of the father arc. Wintergreen’s father was an evil man and Slade compares them.

Any other MarvStroke questions and I’d love to help out. If I’m missing any feel free to add.

So a question abt Slade. Ive heard people saying that Marvs version mentioned slade having a abusive dad but I couldn't find it. Do you know any panels were its mentioned?

i'm honored that i seem to have become a source of deathstroke info, but sadly my knowledge is severely lacking in the marv wolfman slade department

if anyone can help this kind anon out, please reblog or leave a comment!

[dogmeatthedead]

Answering some commonly asked Deathstroke questions

When, can, how

This was a fun idea that I’d seen done in the past. Basiclly you go into Google type in a character then word like “what, when where and who” and answer the questions that pop up. In this case I answered “Is and What” questions. This was done around two years ago so it may not be updated. I kind of want to do it again with the new autofills. I’ll make a part two if I do.

So what makes me qualified to talk on Deathstroke? 

I’ve been a hardcore fan of Deathstroke for almost eight years, (now ten at the time of postingthis) which is impressive because I’m only 18 (now twenty). Admittedly, I really know the most about the individual Deathstroke solo runs, but that doesn’t mean that I never read other books that he’s in. Outside of all four of his solo books, I’ve read the NTT issues with DS in them, the shitty Johns run, outsiders, villains for hire, flashpoint, birds of prey, Team 7, futures end, and loads of other issues that he appeared in that would take to long to name here. 

What about other media?

Good question. I never finished the arkham game, injustice, MK.vs.DC, or pretty much any other video game he’s in. Not that I don’t want to play it’s that my computer can’t run them, so I need to wait till I get one that can. 

As for cartoons?

I’ve watched teen titans, crisis on two earths, flashpoint, parts of Arrow and I even suffered through the son of Batman but I couldn’t sit though that shitty Judas Contract movie, so I’ve never watched it.  There are probably others that I can’t think of right now. (Titans wasn’t out at the time of writing this. It’ll be in the part two)

FAQ 

Found by Google auto-fill

These are the questions found under “Is Deathstroke...”

Is Deathstroke Slade?

Yes, Slade from Teen Titans and Deathstroke from the comics are the same person. From what I’ve read the Cartoon network executives didn’t like the whole “Death” part, but personally I never bought that given that the Titans fought the Devil. I just think that didn’t want to make Slade a mercenary like he is in the comics so they made a “new” version of the character.

Is Deathstroke Deadpool?

No! They don’t even look alike. When Deadpool was first made by Liefeld (who is a deathstroke fan) editors noted that Deadpool acted like Deathstroke and hence their similar name was born. 

Is Deathstroke a Batman villain?

If I had my way? No, he wouldn’t be. But sadly DC get owns him so Deathstoke and Batman tend to fight. Still I wouldn’t call him a “Batman Villain,” I’d say he’s more of a everyone villain. He’s fought the Titans, Wonder Woman, Superman, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Flash, Halkman, and loads of other people. So the answer would probably be no, they’re not, but this really could be debated either way.

Is Deathstroke in Arrow?

Yes. Love it or hate it, Deathstroke is in Arrow. While he isn’t at all the same character from the comics he does show up there. He first appears in season 1 but is the main villain in season 2 and goes on to reappear throughout later seasons. 

Is Deathstroke immortal?

Now this is a good question! And the answer is complicated. The short answer is yes, he was at one point. The the good old MarvStroke run, Slade gained immortality from Cheshire (long story) and this went on to be a big plot thing in the later issues of that run. To the best of my knowledge, he never lost that ability until the universe reset. He just stopped being so hot headed and getting himself killed. During N52 I think he lost it, he may have got it back in convergence and we have yet to see if he still has it in Rebirth. (rebirth hadn’t ended yet. But I’d say no. In the Rebirth Timeline, Slade is not immortal)

Is Deathstroke a metahuman?

Well, again yes and no. Yes, he has powers so if that’s what you mean by metahuman, then yes. However, I’ve always defined metahuman as having been born with your powers, so by that definition, no he would be. I think it’s how you want to define metahuman that will define the answer.

Is Deathstroke an anti-hero?

This is pretty dependant on what issue your asking about. He can go from Earth saving hero, to nuking Bludhaven, and back to mercenary so that’s a hard question. One could argue that Deathstroke first appeared as a “villain” but it was Clay Pigeons that launched his first solo run. In that he was most definitely an anti-hero, so I’d say that he is. (or at least he SHOULD be)

Is Deathstroke good?

Hell yeah! Sure, his character has had some hiccups *cough* PriestStroke *cough* but over all, his character is pretty great. If you mean alignment? That depends on issue again. The MarvStroke run is littered with Deathstroke being a straight up hero. He worked with Team Titans (at least I think) to save the world and at one point Cyborg considered him to be a hero. But since then it depends on the Author. (DC can’t seem to make up their minds and looks to be exploring the morality of his character in DS INC)

Is Deathstroke Robin? 

This is an interesting questions actually. I think it comes from a theory that Slade from Teen Titans is Robin from the future. In one episode Robin kicks off part of Slade’s mask and we see black hair, since Slade Wilson has white hair, people just kinda assumed this. I may address this later but the answer is no; the Slade from the Teen Titans cartoon is not Robin. However on Earth 5029 Dick Grayson went insane after losing his eye and became Deathstroke. So yes sorta if you really like this fan AU, but I don’t think that's what their asking about. 

Is Deathstroke in Gotham?

No, Slade Wilson or Deathstroke never appeared in Gotham the TV show. But if you’d like to see how I’d write him in, let me know and I’ll bump it up on my roster.

Let’s move on to the “What” questions

What’s Deathstroke’s real name?

Slade Joseph Wilson.

What does Deathstroke look like?

In classic comics Slade looks like a man in his 40’s with white hair, an eye patch, a goatee and almost no cheeks because his cheekbones are so strong; of course this isn’t always the case. In some issues/ runs, he is younger, being blond (end of the MarvStroke run) or brunette (DanielStroke) and sometimes he’ll have both eyes (most of DanielStroke). But outside of that, his look has stayed constant in comics.

What is Deathstroke’s armor made of?

In the classic comics (NTT/MarvStroke) it was made of a promethium mesh mix, in N52 it was made of promethium and nth metal, Convergance was promethium as well I believe and Rebirth he uses that SHITTY ikon armor. I can’t stress how much I hate the Ikon suit. I sorta want to do a highlight of the different feats of his different suits so I may do that.

What are Deathstroke’s weakness?

Good question. Well, Slade is human….so there's that. In the Marvstroke run when he was immortal nothing could kill him, however, this may have only been temporary I don’t think it was conformed in the books. Outside of that? We know that Barta was able to rip his head clean off so brute force is always possible if you're stronger. Let’s go over what killed him in the MarvStroke: being impaled on a sword, being shot, chemicals, bullet through the mouth, being shot by cops, heart attack (he is pushing 60 after all) and I’m probably forgetting things because he died a lot in the last few issues. Like a lot. So most things that could kill a human could kill him. Much to my chagrin, his family is probably the answer that you’d be looking for. He’d gladly die for them so that would be the easiest way to get to him. 

What is Deathstroke’s sword made of?

I have a feeling that these last two questions are being asked by debaters lol. Hi guys, sup? Anyway, so far as I know it’s always been made of promethium. It may have been mixed with Nth metal in n52 but I believe it’s always been made of promethium. Sadly if you are a debater I can’t give you a set list of ability as it changes pretty much every run. It goes from just being really solid to being able to cut Superman….. So sorry. No list of powers.

What are Deathstroke’s weapons?

Actually this is pretty run dependiant. I don’t have time to go through every single item he’s ever had so I’ll go over what he has most often. Sometimes he has guns sometimes not, but pretty constantly he has his sword, and an assortment of bombs and knives. Otherwise he makes good use of his surroundings. IE: taking other people's guns, or making a shield. I’m talking on average of course, so this can change depending on what you read, also keep in mind, he brings things as he needs them. (He very much retained the mind of a soldier. He bring things as the mission requires. Never bring extra to weigh him down.)

What does Deathstroke mean?

If you consider Rebirth cannon, then he was named after his sword. However, his name was never meant to be called Deathstroke. When he was first introduced everyone called him “Terminator” Deathstroke was just the part of his name that no one used. After the movie with Arine came out DC fazed this name out, and Deathstroke replaced it. I don’t think it was ever meant to have a deep meaning, just your typical 90’s funny faux hardcore name.

What is Deathstroke’s fighting style? 

Probably a mix of all of them if I had to guess, I know he trained with Richard Dragon so that seems likely. He went though advanced military training so he would likely fall back onto this kind of training heavely. 

What is Deathstroke’s mask made of?

A promethium aloy, I believe. I don’t think that this has ever changed, save for in rebirth.

What if Deathstroke was real?

This would be a cool post and I may make it sometime, but if we say that he survives his genetics being ripped apart, he would die of a heart attack. His power are derived from adrenaline, and his heart would give out if it was forced to process it 24/7. His body would shut down slowly and it would be unable to digest food; he would go spetic from rotting food in his stomach. He would also likely go quite mad as everything around him would be SUPER loud and everything he touched would have it’s texture enchanced. His powers are like being on a constant adrenaline high, however the artifical adrenaline that hisbody makes could come without the negative side effects.

[scintillant-h]

I have never read such a painfully true truth as a fan of ANYTHING since being heavily religious and realizing that all religions are too tainted by corruption...

Marvstroke, the ONLY great Deathstroke ❤

who's the better Edgy Villain For Hire, Taskmaster or Deathstroke?

Taskmaster - I don’t know much about him as a character, but even if he’s as bad as Slade he’s still just a competent deadly threat rather than being pushed as The Ultimate Motherfucker Of All Motherfuckers, Motherfucker.