#Like all the stuff where ppl are like cows eat so much human food it's such a waste

[sweetenby]

0

I think we a group need to consider what the early “zero waste” movement did in the 2010s. You know. They’d keep “all” their waste in a glass jar, live in a nice apartment somewhere in LA where they had easy access to a refill store and didn’t stop to consider that just existing in the US creates waste they couldn’t see.

I remember watching a video in 9th grade (around 2013) about a chick who did that and even then I was like “that’s bullshit�� and it really turned me off the zero waste movement.

The inherent classism of a lot of zero waste purists created a wall between me and them, where instead of them admitting their privilege, they simply said “anyone can do this”. Most people can’t. A zero waste refill store does not exist in my state! Sure, I could try online but this is 1. More expensive- something my dirt poor family could not do at the time and 2. Creates more carbon emissions!

This isn’t to say zero waste is bad- it’s simply a standard most Americans can’t reach. I think this is why I’m so drawn to solarpunk, because I think solarpunk recognizes the classism that is in a lot of eco-friendly products and movements (something I do think is being addressed- I’ve seen more affordable products now than I did in high school). Solarpunk includes diy- reusing packaging that many of us still have to buy because we can’t afford the eco-friendly version.

Idk I just had some thoughts

[trickstarbrave]

i hate when ppl dont understand how intertwined all the fucked up systems of capitalism are. they present it as "take away [x] and things will work better!" when that damn well will not fix it. or they dont even realize the problem is actually capitalism not some other thing they have been fixated on

like. veganism argument: "we subsidize grains to feed livestock. if we stopped feeding livestock, we would have more food for everyone! the problem is livestock are eating too much of grains we could be eating"

a lot of the corn they are eating are byproducts of the ethanol industry. we are not in fact just growing huge fields of grains and refusing to eat them bc we can feed cows it instead. that would be way too costly. "subsidies" wouldn't cover it. at no point was the corn being grown for human consumption. most of the corn in the US is grown for biofuel. without livestock, we would not have MORE food to eat, we'd have a lot of leftover slop we have to toss out to slowly degrade in landfills.

its not the most healthy option to pump them full of byproducts. they should be allowed to forage and walk. but the problem is much more complex than than just "get rid of the cows to make more food for people!!" the cows eating the byproducts is whats making more food for people. not less. you can't just look at "grain products" and decide all of those were fit for human consumption. most of the stuff we feed farm animals is NOT fit for human consumption. for better or for worse.

and this is only one problem. some are relatively easy solutions (once all of the, yknow, capitalist incentive is removed) like how we have more houses than homeless people. just give people houses. except we should also look at: where are these houses being built, are they being built for quality and to last? because the answer is: they are built mostly in suburbs for cheap with lazy building standards and poor quality materials. we are tearing down homes with better bones and foundations for cheap, paper thin wood, new construction houses when many of them can be saved. these are homes far away from doctors and jobs that you actually need a car to get around to important places, so many people who don't have reliable transportation will still have many problems once settled in. to create more sustainable, walk-able communities and to have better public transportation we are still gonna need to tear a bunch of these down and rebuild communities, which is going to be a daunting task too.

food insecurity: okay we'll just give people food! except they might not have reliable ways to cook that food either. a lot of people who are food insecure grew up food insecure. they grew up in food deserts where microwave self stable meals were the norm. they might not have pots and pans or know how to find a recipe or make one themselves. many are chronically ill or disabled and don't have a lot of time and energy to cook. many people still think its better to give a food bank 10 cans of green beans that you forgot about and don't plan to use in donations rather than just giving the food bank 30 bucks.

idk. i dont really have an answer i suppose. i just wanted to complain about how messy and complicated these problems are. and i think if you're a serious activist you are going to need better, long term plans and big picture perspectives. these problems can seem incredibly easy to tackle on the surface to lots of online activists but are very complex issues to actually dismantle and combat. we can't just keep complaining and hope society collapses so we can rebuild from scratch. there is no after the revolution when everything will be good and perfect. no after the end of the world to pick ourselves up and make a utopia from the ashes. we gotta figure out the problem and start untangling it and deal with the first steps NOW. start with realistic goals. contacting local government. creating bettering, temporary solutions that are better than what we have now. disrupt the system bit by bit. get other ppl in on it. the world we wanna live in will not come to us overnight. we gotta build it brick by brick.

capitalism counts on it being too daunting of a task. they count on ppl just complaining and wishing it was better to sell them the solution without any real change. but real change has to come from small shit first. maybe start a community garden if you want a more sustainable community. make your own garden if you have the ability. collect rain water (YES ITS LEGAL IN ALL 50 STATES just heavily regulated in some. dont tell me its illegal in the US). create alternatives for companies you boycott. tell your local representative you want public transport and ask how to get it and rally your community for it enough that they have to bother ppl higher than them and actively have to start considering it. do ride shares. help out food banks with real stuff they ask for. look around your community for small problems you can address and find solutions.

[princessnijireiki]

Re: shitty vegetarians. I'm veg because I have what I call "just a lot of feelings" when I think about animals, and I hate the ppl ur describing. When ppl try to act like there's no human exploitation within the ag industry (or call a veg*n diet a "harm/exploitation-free diet) I just wanna scream. One of my areas of study in grad school was the ethics around food and I left because we were literally all middle or upper class white people talking about exploitation without doing ANYTHING to fixit

feelings are fine & great!!! it's just sth ppl do need to acknowledge is subjective and highly personal at best… like I know lots of americans weirded out about people eating horses or dog meat farms but they'll eat gators, which don't really hurt anybody unless you fuck with them first (Chill Florida Dinosaurs™), or they'll eat veal & lamb chops (ahhh!!!), but not goat. people will eat foie gras and caviar (which is so weird!!!), but turn up their nose at spam and make racist jokes about "mystery meat" in chinese food.and like I know, for example, I'd feel really awful if I ran sth like an emu farm or kept cows or sheep and I needed to slaughter any, bc you get attached… but so many people would rather stay detached because they KNOW sth had to die, but doing it themselves is what makes them feel bad, not the inherent ethics or lack thereof in eating animals.but then you like get PETA & the ASPCA running campaigns against whale and seal hunts when it's VERY much subsistence hunting in a real way for n8v communities in alaska/canada, and farmer's markets & chicken aren't exactly an option… and better solutions for those communities NEED rights & access to hunt in that way + possibly a local mass food storage or exchange system rather than $12 milk shipped in every week. but those orgs attack that kind of hunting more publicly and with more zeal than like anti shark finning mov'ts., bc sharks aren't "cute," even though on a PLANETARY scale finning is fucking disastrous, big business ocean fisheries & trawling is disastrous and tbh when you talk about oil spills or fukushima or mass coral bleaching/die-off phenoms, no one is talking about reducing their carbon footprint and not taking the trip to the bahamas or mexico or the south pacific.it ends up such a self centered (and by extension ethnocentric) concept of "morality" that's really a policing of social norms for folks' own comfort & peace of mind above all else that like… beyond basics like "where is the boundary between humane/inhumane conditions" for both animals & humans, it's a sort of functionally useless and paternalistic argument. and the ways that that snowballs into really aggressively & violently imperialist action, so long as that peace of mind is preserved (see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil), are a direct function of that self-centered morality from the jump.so it's just… odd to me how like SO MANY people, especially in academia!!! treat this stuff as a philosophy argument that you can end on "It Really Makes You Think," bc the whole exercise becomes a function of dissecting shit like white guilt complexes and then soothing them by essentially ticking off that "it's complicated" relationship box on facebook, when that was never the point!!! the system is broken. and??? what is step two???but yeah shit like that is why like… people get weirded out when I say, "no, globalization is a bad thing," esp. bc since I'm ~exotic & mixed, I should support global exchange or Whatever the Fuck— but that's not what globalization is or ever was or how it works. folks treat "globalization" as a means to extend their pantry, like it's amazon prime 24/7/365, ignoring how the toll of that gets shoved onto others' backs without a shred of irony in like full bleached cotton head to toe (a VERY heavy water-use crop) eating like dragonfruit kiwi açai mango cherry smoothies year round, and then will say the people facilitating that, and the diasporas with ties to those cultures, are savages for like eating balut or bone marrow or fish eyes. they'll wear the silk and call folks backwards for eating the silkworms who had to die to extract the thread.like if somebody says, "I need to eat this animal to survive," the next question should not be "have you tried pb&j?" but "what is the most humane way that this can happen for you & for the animal, big picture + as individuals?" PETA doesn't need to send people pamphlets bitching and moaning about kosher and halal slaughter practices; that shit is racist and patronizing and chick tract level fucking weird on top of not being helpful. but it's also super weird that they don't have anything to say about animals ploughing fields and children working 18hr days on literal massacre sites to facilitate quinoa & tofu nugget tuesday in the dead of winter.and they could come up with plans of action if they wanted to, but they don't; bc what they actually want is the world to appease them by conforming to their own ideals… or to just suffer less quietly out of sight & out of mind (so long as they aren't directly blamed, and therefore can't be the ones held responsible), so that they feel less bad about things overall.it's exhausting, and those arguments turn circular, and never end bc folks want a paradoxical answer of feeling empowered to be able to change things, guiltless & with the moral high ground, but also to get a free pass once it's time to put the work in, bc "there's nothing you could have done." :P

[191811110]

It's funny to read that, bc for all the differences - like, less cows more birds, and prolly a different climate - ppl list rules to safely threading what grew to be my comfort zone in childhood. And mixing in some that sound ridiculous to me (why acorn and not a carrot and a small bag of wheat? these offerings are much more useful,) i can testify for usefulness of some that prolly sound ridiculous at first glance.

Let me add some more.

If you see trace of hooves in the spring or summer, go sideways. And put a reasonable distance of over 200 meters between you and that path as soon as you can.

If you have to walk across in the time between setting sun and the first nightly quieting of noise, sing.

An improvised walking stick is your friend, for it can double as a semi-weapon and is easy to obtain there.

A chance is, that with you walking on low plant-life, the ground will start to try to take you inside at some point. Short fast steps are the way to go.

Don't use human body language. Use animal-specific body language. Respect the space of inhabitants and let them know that you're just passing through.

Look at where you step! i almost forgot to say that for how obvious it is to me, but i had human peers injured by stepping on another being's space.

If there's a baby, there's most likely a parent close. Turn away fast, if the baby is bigger than your hand. You may come back after a few hours, but be ready to back off any time.

Shelters for the night, crossing the streams, fire, stuff like that - they have a number of climate-and-wheather-specific rules. Don't, if you're not sure of your knowledge there. Once you are, you will still make mistakes - better take a partner to the adventure, it's safer to not be alone.

Keep your head shielded, or a południca may get you ;p. If you aren't used to walking barefeet in an unsafe terrain, keep your feet shielded with half-calf shoes. No sandals for fuck's sake.

I've never had a problem with eating what was there? But i am a local creature myself. And from a zone where farming isn't as chemical-sprayed. Trees in the fields mark a good chance that it was a zone in which natural methods of dealing with pests were practiced (birds eating those pests would live on those trees, and trees require more time to grow, so likely were there before the farm got abandoned.)

Unusual behaviors in animals may be marks of poisoning tho - e.g. don't drink water if you see ducks back-flipping their heads so hard that they fall sideways. It contains lead. So do *some* of the edible parts of the plants nearby, not all plants deal with chemicals the same way. If you don't have knowledge of how these specific plants deal with poisons, weight risks - are you likely to starve if you avoid that food?

Water should be filtered and/or cooked, so that you can avoid drinking in someone else's life. Most prolly not human one.

a guide to exploring abandoned farms

essential supplies include: plenty of food and water, a change of socks, a hat, rope, bandaids, a knife, gloves, an acorn in your pocket, and an offering

there are always odd noises on the farm. half of them come from the animals

try to forget what the lake looks like between the hours of three and four AM

never ever find yourself alone in the milking shed in the south end of the farm. time passes differently there

if you happen to hurt yourself in your exploration, make sure you do not bleed onto the dirt

bring plenty of water, you do not want to drink from there

the cows will watch you, this is normal

close every gate you open, even if the fields are empty. don’t ever leave one open behind you, just trust me

beware unstable rocks, the cracks tend to be filled with insect nests

bring a weapon with you, but no guns

if you see someone else while exploring, never tell them your name. you can never be sure if they are real or not, and further out you go, the less real they will seem. the patupaiarehe have evolved in cruel and unusual ways

do not go inside the empty share-milkers cottages, whatever you do, do not go inside. something else lives there now

a tree with the undersides of its leaves showing mean that a storm is coming. a tree with no leaves means the storm has already come

sometimes the hills look like they’re moving. be aware of this, because some things don’t like to be disturbed

do not sleep under the full moon, in fact, just don’t sleep on the farm

finding skulls is normal, only become worried when you start finding ribs

if you find yourself lost in a forest, continue walking in a straight line until you are free again. the trees may make it look as though you are going in circles, but i promise you’re not. ignore the soft music you can hear

your phone won’t work out here

the ghosts from the land wars won’t harm you, but be sure to show them respect

don’t take anything from the farm with you when you leave. just be grateful you have made it out alive

[rumtreiberli]

Stereotypes: Swiss cantons & people living there

Argovia: They all wear white socks and can’t properly drive a car. They only eat carrots so the canton can also be called « Carrot Land ». People from Argovia either pretend to be from Zurich or they hate people from Zurich so much, there is no in between. They are surrounded by castles and nuclear power plants. Their canton is not well-known enough so when they talk to foreigners, they have to say that they live „between Zurich and Basel“.

Appenzell Outher Rhodes:testicles hahahahahah. They like to walk around naked in the mountains. Some people say that they like to eat cats and dogs. Who knows, who knows…

Appenzell Inner Rhodes: more testicles!!! Also they are freaking conservative peasants.

Basel Country: People living in Basel Country almost live in Germany. The dialect is horrible. There must be something wrong with their throats. But people from Basel Country know how to party because there is Fasnacht. They basically live for Fasnacht.

Basel City: They have an annoying dialect. It hurts other people’s ears when they talk. They also live for Fasnacht. And for Basel Läckerli. That’s actually all they eat. And they surely like medication stuff because the all live next to Roche and other pharmaceutical industry places.

Bern: PEOPLE. FROM. BERNE.WHY.DO.YOU.TALK.SO.SLOWLY ???? They talk so friggin slowly. And their favorite and also most used word is « äuä ». At least they are so chill. There is no stress in Bern. Everyone is chill but you don’t watch Netflix, you go and watch some bears. Bears are everywhere.

Fribourg: There are more cows than people. And half of the people are students. Also there are people who speak French and people who pretend to speak German but it’s so weird. That’s not German, dear ppl from Fribourg! The „R“ is missing when you speak! And take a shower, you smell weird!

Geneva: Geneva is the Zurich from the French part. It’s so international. There are lots of rich people. Everyone from other cantons goes there to watch the Jet d’Eau or to visit the Geneva International Motor Show. Or they come to visit the UNO.

Glarus: It’s such a small place. Does it even really exist? Are there people living there or is there just the Glarnerland rest stop? And why is there a human being on the flag???

Graubünden: They hate tourists but tourists love this canton. There is lots of good food like Nusstorte, Bündnerfleisch, Gerstensuppe and cheese. If they’re not busy eating, they smoke weed or support HCD. Their dialect is weird but some people get a boner from it because they think it’s so sexy.

Jura: This is the youngest canton. It’s a baby. A baby that pretends to be French and that drinks a hella big amount of alcohol.

Lucerne: For some people, this is the most beautiful canton of Switzerland. The people are real Bünzlis though. It’s the Asian part of Switzerland. You can’t spend 5 minutes without seeing a tourist from Asia. People from Luzern also love Fasnacht. If it’s not Fasnacht time, they spend their time swimming in the Vierwaldstättersee or they eat/drink Emmi products.

Neuchâtel: Very nice canton. Kinda French though. Everyone loves the lake. Everyone likes Neuchâtel.

Nidwalden: This is such a small and old place. People living in Nidwalden are so conservative it hurts.

Obwalden: It’s the brother of Nidwalden. It’s so traditional and old and conservative. Everyone lives in the mountains. This canton is actually in the middle of Switzerland, yet none really knows where it is when they have to show it on a map.

St.Gallen: They live by „Hopp St. Galle, ine mit em Balle!“ It’s their ‚rule to live by‘. When they talk, it hurts other people’s ears. The dialect is a nightmare. People eat Bratwurst all day long. They don’t like mustard on their Bratwurst. This makes them really really weird. At least they have a nice open air festival, so there is a reason to go there.

Schaffhausen: This is almost Germany. They have nice Rhine falls, the rest of the canton is a Reinfall tho.

Schwyz:No it's not 'Schweiz'! People living in Schwyz are rich catholic Bünzlis. They are at Alpamare 24/7. Alpamare is also the only reason to go there. People from other countries tend to forget how important this canton used to be when it comes to history.

Solothurn: People living there speak like people from Bern. The only reason to go there is the Film Festival. Oh, and there are lots of brothels. Most people just drive through this canton tho.

Thurgau: When they talk, it is painful for other Swiss people. That’s all you need to know.Also there is no water, just Most.

Ticino: It’s basically in Italy. Pizza Pizza, Pasta Pasta! It’s the perfect place to spend your holidays and chill. People living there chill too much tho, they don’t like working. They prefer spending the day staring at the sun. In their car. They’re always stuck in a traffic jam.

Uri:A place full of history. Therefore everything is very old and boring. Their daily topic to talk about is the Gotthard. It’s the only important thing from this canton nowadays. Wilhelm Tell’s hood is not what is used to be.

Vaud: Most beautiful canton, at least of the French part. People living there like to eat sausages & drink a lot of wine. Sadly, they hate the people from the German part not only when they’re drunk.

Valais: They either speak French or some dialect none understands. Sounds like German, French and Italian at the same time. A real struggle for tourists. They drink white wine 24/7 and they eat Raclette and Fondue every day. In summer, they also eat apricots. People from Valais don’t use cars, they go everywhere with their skis.

Zug: Zug is the Monaco of Switzerland. Few Swiss people are living there, the canton is like 90% non-Swiss people, so you can hear English everywhere. There are more letterboxes than companies. The only thing you can eat there is Kirschtorte. But it’s yummy, so it’s okay.

Zurich: Zurich tries to be the capital of Switzerland. People living in Zurich suffer from the „Züri-Schnurre-Syndrom“ and most of them are rich and/or arrogant. There are so many celebs but none cares because people care more about swimming in the Lake of Zurich or spending nights at Langstrasse.

[alexandramatically]

Stereotypes: Swiss cantons & people living there

Argovia: They all wear white socks and can’t properly drive a car. They only eat carrots so the canton can also be called « Carrot Land ». People from Argovia either pretend to be from Zurich or they hate people from Zurich so much, there is no in between. They are surrounded by castles and nuclear power plants. Their canton is not well-known enough so when they talk to foreigners, they have to say that they live „between Zurich and Basel“.

Appenzell Outher Rhodes:testicles hahahahahah. They like to walk around naked in the mountains. Some people say that they like to eat cats and dogs. Who knows, who knows…

Appenzell Inner Rhodes: more testicles!!! Also they are freaking conservative peasants.

Basel Country: People living in Basel Country almost live in Germany. The dialect is horrible. There must be something wrong with their throats. But people from Basel Country know how to party because there is Fasnacht. They basically live for Fasnacht.

Basel City: They have an annoying dialect. It hurts other people’s ears when they talk. They also live for Fasnacht. And for Basel Läckerli. That’s actually all they eat. And they surely like medication stuff because the all live next to Roche and other pharmaceutical industry places.

Bern: PEOPLE. FROM. BERNE.WHY.DO.YOU.TALK.SO.SLOWLY ???? They talk so friggin slowly. And their favorite and also most used word is « äuä ». At least they are so chill. There is no stress in Bern. Everyone is chill but you don’t watch Netflix, you go and watch some bears. Bears are everywhere.

Fribourg: There are more cows than people. And half of the people are students. Also there are people who speak French and people who pretend to speak German but it’s so weird. That’s not German, dear ppl from Fribourg! The „R“ is missing when you speak! And take a shower, you smell weird!

Geneva: Geneva is the Zurich from the French part. It’s so international. There are lots of rich people. Everyone from other cantons goes there to watch the Jet d’Eau or to visit the Geneva International Motor Show. Or they come to visit the UNO.

Glarus: It’s such a small place. Does it even really exist? Are there people living there or is there just the Glarnerland rest stop? And why is there a human being on the flag???

Graubünden: They hate tourists but tourists love this canton. There is lots of good food like Nusstorte, Bündnerfleisch, Gerstensuppe and cheese. If they’re not busy eating, they smoke weed or support HCD. Their dialect is weird but some people get a boner from it because they think it’s so sexy.

Jura: This is the youngest canton. It’s a baby. A baby that pretends to be French and that drinks a hella big amount of alcohol.

Lucerne: For some people, this is the most beautiful canton of Switzerland. The people are real Bünzlis though. It’s the Asian part of Switzerland. You can’t spend 5 minutes without seeing a tourist from Asia. People from Luzern also love Fasnacht. If it’s not Fasnacht time, they spend their time swimming in the Vierwaldstättersee or they eat/drink Emmi products.

Neuchâtel: Very nice canton. Kinda French though. Everyone loves the lake. Everyone likes Neuchâtel.

Nidwalden: This is such a small and old place. People living in Nidwalden are so conservative it hurts.

Obwalden: It’s the brother of Nidwalden. It’s so traditional and old and conservative. Everyone lives in the mountains. This canton is actually in the middle of Switzerland, yet none really knows where it is when they have to show it on a map.

St.Gallen: They live by „Hopp St. Galle, ine mit em Balle!“ It’s their ‚rule to live by‘. When they talk, it hurts other people’s ears. The dialect is a nightmare. People eat Bratwurst all day long. They don’t like mustard on their Bratwurst. This makes them really really weird. At least they have a nice open air festival, so there is a reason to go there.

Schaffhausen: This is almost Germany. They have nice Rhine falls, the rest of the canton is a Reinfall tho.

Schwyz:No it's not 'Schweiz'! People living in Schwyz are rich catholic Bünzlis. They are at Alpamare 24/7. Alpamare is also the only reason to go there. People from other countries tend to forget how important this canton used to be when it comes to history.

Solothurn: People living there speak like people from Bern. The only reason to go there is the Film Festival. Oh, and there are lots of brothels. Most people just drive through this canton tho.

Thurgau: When they talk, it is painful for other Swiss people. That’s all you need to know.Also there is no water, just Most.

Ticino: It’s basically in Italy. Pizza Pizza, Pasta Pasta! It’s the perfect place to spend your holidays and chill. People living there chill too much tho, they don’t like working. They prefer spending the day staring at the sun. In their car. They’re always stuck in a traffic jam.

Uri:A place full of history. Therefore everything is very old and boring. Their daily topic to talk about is the Gotthard. It’s the only important thing from this canton nowadays. Wilhelm Tell’s hood is not what is used to be.

Vaud: Most beautiful canton, at least of the French part. People living there like to eat sausages & drink a lot of wine. Sadly, they hate the people from the German part not only when they’re drunk.

Valais: They either speak French or some dialect none understands. Sounds like German, French and Italian at the same time. A real struggle for tourists. They drink white wine 24/7 and they eat Raclette and Fondue every day. In summer, they also eat apricots. People from Valais don’t use cars, they go everywhere with their skis.

Zug: Zug is the Monaco of Switzerland. Few Swiss people are living there, the canton is like 90% non-Swiss people, so you can hear English everywhere. There are more letterboxes than companies. The only thing you can eat there is Kirschtorte. But it’s yummy, so it’s okay.

Zurich: Zurich tries to be the capital of Switzerland. People living in Zurich suffer from the „Züri-Schnurre-Syndrom“ and most of them are rich and/or arrogant. There are so many celebs but none cares because people care more about swimming in the Lake of Zurich or spending nights at Langstrasse.