#Leave the Targaryens and Martells alone HBO

[starrynights23]

Prediction for HBO's Targaryen Conquest Show

Princess Meria Martell of Dorne (according to Fire and Blood)

How HBO will probably see as Princess Meria Martell of Dorne

[gojuo]

Top5 favorite Targaryens?

1. YOUNG GRIFF aka AEGON VI aka ELIA'S BABY aka THE SUN'S SON aka if you EVER all him fAegon im KILLING YOU come to take HIS THRONE again and HONOR his dornish LADY MOTHER that SAVED his life -> "Daenerys is Prince Rhaegar's sister, but I am Rhaegar's son. I am the only dragon you need." CUNTTTT SAY IT LIKE IT IS BABYY this line woulda killed and slayed and overshadowed every single character that's why d&d had to take him out of got his aura was too crazzzzzzyyyyy 🤧 and yes i know, he's going to die for his pasty white relatives' character arcs to conclude, but unlike gary jon and mary dany, aegon vi will go down in asoiaf history as the Last Targaryen King of Westeros. that's my baby yall

2. aegon ii -> this is recency bias i fully admit it but also this guy doesn't live in the asoiaf verse he lives in a shakespeare play and he's the best tragedy the best haunting the best dooming the best character arc of any of the targaryens that exist. there i said it.

3. BAELOR BREAKSPEAR my dornish DARLINGGGGG he would have saved house targaryen he would have done away with jaehaerys' doctrine or exceptionalism he would have ushered a new age of enlightenment in westeros as one would do when they're a 2nd gen half brown immigrant like that's exactly why george had to kill him omgggg ... dont ever forgive hbo and whoever runs the dunk and egg show for casting a white guy to play him they literally whitewashed him MY WORST NIGHTMARE dont let them get away with it !!!!!!!!

4. rhaella (daughter of shaera) -> my darling :(((((((( i would have saved her :(((((((( i have this hc that she named daenerys after the daenerys that married maron martell to honor elia bc i think she found a lot of solace and happiness in elia :( i think she viewed her as the daughter she never got to have :( she makes me so unbelievably sad i wish i could have saved her :(

5. naerys -> prettiest targ name dont even play with me. i just need to get this out of the way idgaf about "ship and let ship" rhetoric.. if you think she had an affair with aemon better yet if you even remotely think she was in any way or form in love with that man then fuck you don't ever speak on her name naerys wanted to be a SEPTA she was RELIGIOUS she never would have committed adultery first of all and second of all she hated aegon iv she never wanted to be with him she never wanted to be a wife or anyone's lover for that matter and that other scumbag of a brother everyone ships her with never did anything to save her from her abuser. all he ever did was sit on the sidelines and prey on her misery. winning a tournament means jack shit when she still got raped and humiliated all her life while that so called cuck of a dragonknight just fucking watched. fuck both aemon and aegon AND LEAVE NAERYS ALONE !!!!!!!!!!!! JUSTICE FOR MY GIRL 🗣

6. (i just had to mention her) helaena -> her spot moves up and down based on which version of her there is. show version? she'd be a little lower than no.6. book version? no.6. the helaena inside my head? she's on no.4. 🫡

[butterflies-dragons]

Hey! I just read your post about the original outline and never put together that Sansa’s original story almost perfectly matches Lyanna’s. 👀 Amazing post, thank you. I gave the whole outline another read, and realized that grrm still names the series asoiaf in outline, but Jon x Daenerys was completely nonexistent in his plans. Doesn’t that kind of kill that whole ice and fire argument?

Hello Anon, 

Thanks for your message.  I always thought that the Sansa from the original outline was very similar to Lyanna Stark.  And that Jaime killing “everyone ahead of him in the line of succession” (Sansa’s baby included), echoes Elia Martell & her babies’ tragic and devastating deaths.

About the title of the series, you are right.  So very right.  

This is what GRRM wrote in that letter from 1993:

Here are the first thirteen chapters (170 pages) of the high fantasy novel I promised you, which I'm calling 'A Game of Thrones.' When completed, this will be the first volume in what I see as an epic trilogy with the overall title, 'A Song of Ice and Fire.' (...) Roughly speaking, there are three major conflicts set in motion in the chapters enclosed. These will form the major plot threads of the trilogy, [unclear] each other in what should be a complex but exciting (I hope [unclear] tapestry. Each of the [unclear] presents a major threat [unclear] of my imaginary realm, the Seven Kingdoms, and to the live [unclear] principal characters. The first threat grows from the emnity between the great houses of Lannister and Stark as it plays out in a cycle of plot, counterplot, ambition, murder, and revenge, with the iron throne of the Seven Kingdoms as the ultimate prize. This will form the backbone of the first volume of the trilogy, A Game of Thrones. (...) While the lion of Lannister and the direwolf of Stark snarl and scrap, however, a second and greater threat takes shape across the narrow sea, where the Dothraki horselords mass their barbarian hordes for a great invasion of the Seven Kingdoms, led by the fierce and beautiful Daenerys Stormborn, the last of the Targaryen dragonlords. The Dothraki invasion will be the central story of my second volume, A Dance with Dragons. The greatest danger of all, however, comes from the north, from the icy wastes beyond the Wall, where half-forgotten demons out of legend, the inhuman others, raise cold legions of the undead and the neverborn and prepare to ride down on the winds of winter to extinguish everything that we would call "life." The only thing that stands between the Seven Kingdoms and an endless night is the Wall, and a handful of men in black called the Night's Watch. Their story will be [sic] heart of my third volume, The Winds of Winter. The final battle will also draw together characters and plot threads left from the first two books and resolve all in one huge climax.

So,

An epic trilogy with the overall title, 'A Song of Ice and Fire'

There are three major conflicts set in motion: 

The first threat grows from the enmity between the great houses of Lannister and Stark. 

A second and greater threat takes shape across the narrow sea, where the Dothraki horselords mass their barbarian hordes for a great invasion of the Seven Kingdoms, led by the fierce and beautiful Daenerys Stormborn, the last of the Targaryen dragonlords. 

The greatest danger of all, however, comes from the north, from the icy wastes beyond the Wall, where half-forgotten demons out of legend, the inhuman others. 

Once again, Daenerys is called “a greater threat”. 

And while Jon is living a forbidden romance with his half sister, then revealed cousin, and fighting with Tyrion Lannister for the love of the same girl; Dany is plotting murderous revenge, hatching dragons and planning an invasion:  

Over across the narrow sea, Daenerys Targaryen will discover that her new husband, the Dothraki Khal Drogo, has little interest in invading the Seven Kingdoms, much to her brother's frustration. When Viserys presses his claims past the point of tact or wisdom, Khal Drogo will finally grow annoyed and kill him out of hand, eliminating the Targaryen pretender and leaving Daenerys as the last of her line. Danerys [sic] will bide her time, but she will not forget. When the moment is right, she will kill her husband to avenge her brother, and then flee with a trusted friend into the wilderness beyond Vaes Dothrak. There, hunted by [unclear] of her life, she stumbles on a [something about dragon eggs] a young dragon will give Daenerys [unclear] bend [unclear] to her will. Then she begins to plan for her invasion of the Seven Kingdoms.

Yes, the series was still called 'A Song of Ice and Fire' even though there was no romance between Jon and Dany.  

Who woulda thought? 

Here is a compilation of every time that GRRM has been asked about the title of the series.

As you can see, Ice and Fire could mean a lot of things in different levels of analysis.  The main meaning is clear: The Others & Dany and her dragons. 

But as George has said, there could be secondary and tertiary meanings.  Jon Snow, for example, he is Ice and Fire all by himself, since he is the son of a Targaryen and a Stark.

Now, Jon could be associated with Ice alone, he was raised in the North, he is a Stark by blood and nurture, and he is also clearly linked with the Others’ plot.  Jon is the shield that guards the realms of men.  On her side, Dany is evidently associated with Fire and dragons, and she is planning the invasion of Westeros.  But the meeting of these two characters won’t necessary mean romance. This so called promised meeting could be a mere coalition, but not a lasting one, I’m afraid... 

HBO agrees:

...Because I believe that Ice and Fire are irretrievably destined to clash: 

Fire and Ice

Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice.

—Robert Frost

[Source]

Funny enough, I was talking exactly about this with my friends the other day... 👀 

Good night Anon.  

Have a great weekend. 

[asofiaf]

gotta say, really running out of motivation here...

god the intro pisses me off now. way to take that beautiful reminder of the heightened stakes of the war for the dawn and rub in my face that no, we’re not doing that anymore

-'Who's lord of storm's end now?' oh, good, are we gonna acknowledge that the show entirely forgets parts of the continent exist? oh, that's not what this is about? dang.

Dany legitimises Gendry and names him lord of Storm’s End. Because... he’s a main character, I guess. The show tells us this is a clever move because Gendry will always be loyal to Dany now, totally ignoring that Dany has a war to fight and allies to court and surely she could have bought a powerful stormlord by promising them to be Lord Paramount. But now Cersei can buy anyone in the stormlands who doesn’t want a random blacksmith bastard as their lord

-'I'm not Gendry Rivers any more' No, you were never Gendry Rivers. You didn't actually have a last name. Most people in your society don’t, and you were not an acknowledged bastard. Also, if you had been, it would be Waters.

-Varys mentions a new Prince of Dorne, in even more of a parade of remebering there are more regions in Westeros. Never says who it is (the main line of House Martell is extinct in the show).

Dany doesn’t care how many lords stand against Cersei because she... forgot how wars work?

Dany pointlessly antagonises Sansa, Sansa pointlessly antagonises Dany. Sigh. Riveting stuff.

'The longer I leave my enemies alone the stronger they become' Didn't Varys say Cersei is losing allies day by day? Is there any reason you can’t take your dragons, attack her supply lines without getting close to the city (in winter, after an autumn spent mostly at war) and let your people recuperate while you prepare for a proper battle or siege or something?

-Cersei offers Bronn Riverrun, and Tyrion counteroffers Highgarden. And Bron, like. Took both of their words for that. Why.

-Jon is sending Ghost away. Fuck you, HBO.

-Tyrion once again repeating the bullshit about how Robert's rebellion was just about Lyanna choosing some other guy and not, y'know, Aerys. This is tiresome.

-'Is marrying your aunt common in the north?' It’s not unheard of? Well, usually genderflipped, consider the cases of Sansa and Serena Stark, both of whom married uncles. The Targaryens were remarkable for wedding brother to sister, but lots of marriages that would seem incestuous to us were very common in Westerosi nobility!

-Rhaegal’s dead, because Dany having two dragons is too much of an advantage

-Euron can fire bolts in a straight line at the ships, because gravity is a lie

-Cersei is gonna pass Jamie's son as someone else's, again, because that worked so well the first three times

dead: Missandei. Didn’t call it.

idk i just. find it hard to care about anything going on.

[aion-rsa]

Can the New Game of Thrones Spinoffs Redeem Missed Opportunities?

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While Game of Thrones fans have had two years to digest the show’s controversial coda, the conception of spinoffs shows have since dominated discussions; a notion HBO solidified with the news that three more spinoff shows are in development in addition to upcoming spinoff House of the Dragon and other projects. While the prospect of even more television shows might seem overwhelming, the new spinoffs will explore avenues from George R.R. Martin’s mythos that were either botched or missed entirely on the main series.

HBO confirmed to THR (as first reported by Deadline,) that three additional spinoff shows are in development under the working titles of 9 Voyages (a.k.a. The Sea Snake), 10,000 Ships and Flea Bottom. The trio notably boosts HBO’s known current slate of developing Game of Thrones television projects to a stunning six, counting the 2022-scheduled House of the Dragon spinoff, the developing Tales of Dunk and Egg spinoff and a mooted animated series. Interestingly enough, the first of the trio, 9 Voyages, enjoys the advantage of being the farthest along in development, since Rome and Gotham creator Bruno Heller is already working with Martin on the creative side. Plus, it will center on Lord Corlys Velaryon, a character from House of the Dragon, played by Steve Toussaint (It’s a Sin, Prince of Persia). That’s right, it’s a spinoff of a spinoff!

Notwithstanding the overwhelming nature of having this many projects on tap, the description of the new spinoff trio contains potential for the Game of Thrones franchise to redeem some missed Martin mythology opportunities from the original series. For example, 9 Voyages will focus on Corlys Velaryon, a crucial figure during House of the Dragon‘s era (300 years before the main series), known throughout Westeros as legendary mariner the Sea Snake. While the idea of Toussaint reprising the role to headline 9 Voyages has yet to be confirmed, it would be a solid deduction, and would also mean that the show could break franchise ground with the veteran black English actor as its lead.

Steve Toussaint as Banquo in a production of Macbeth; photo by Ellie Kurtz.

Additionally, for the first time in the live-action mythos, the series would put the spotlight on House Velaryon, one of Westeros’ oldest noble houses, who—hailing from the Blackwater Bay island of Driftmark—are a historically seafaring people, as indicated by its signature symbol of the seahorse. Interestingly, during the era of the main A Song of Ice and Fire novels, House Velaryon backed Stannis Baratheon’s royal claim all the way to its chilly end in the North. Yet, one Velaryon member, bastard Aurane Waters, cunningly broke ranks to ingratiate himself with Cersei Lannister, and would quickly rise to the rank of Grand Admiral and Master of Ships. However, the series never adapted Aurane, and instead transferred various aspects of his relationship with Cersei onto Euron Greyjoy.   

Of course, before the spinoff commences, Corlys Velaryon’s involvement on House of the Dragon will center on his involvement in Targaryen civil war “The Dance of the Dragons,” during which he joined the royal lineage by marrying Rhaenys Targaryen, played by Eve Best (Fate: The Winx Saga, Nurse Jackie). He also became Hand of the Queen to self-declared regent Rhaenyra Targaryen, played by Emma D’Arcy (Truth Seekers, Wanderlust). However, to avoid major potential spoilers, we’ll just say that Corlys’ House of the Dragon-era life in King’s Landing will be (should it follow Martin’s lore,) altered by tragedy; something that would potentially set him up to hit the high seas for exploits more to his liking on 9 Voyages. Indeed, unlike the main show’s jumbled adaptation of the maritime-minded Ironborn, there’s potential here for a more lighthearted approach to the backdrop of ships and sails.

Read more

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Details are somewhat scarcer on the other two spinoff projects, 10,000 Ships and Flea Bottom, save for general outlines. The former will focus on a prominent figure in the ancient history of Westeros, Nymeria, princess of Dorne. The name will certainly sound familiar to Thrones viewers, since she had multiple namesakes on the series in the form of Arya Stark’s direwolf and one of the whip-wielding royal bastard daughters of Dorne, Nymeria Sand, who was played by Jessica Henwick. Indeed, around 1,000 years before the events of the main novels, Nymeria, a legendary warrior who escaped a centuries-long conflict known as the Second Spice War—fought between her Rhoynar people and the Valyrian Freehold—famously fled the continent of Essos as part of a fleet of ten thousand ships. The fleet ended up in southern Westeros, in Dorne, where the remaining Rhoynar settled and blended with the Westerosi to create a new hybrid culture. The land’s royal structure was thusly created when Nymeria married Lord Mors Martell, leaving a Dornish lineage showcased during the era of Game of Thrones. Nymeria was as close to a feminist figure as one could get in this world, which explains the frequent evocations of the name.

Consequently, with 10,000 Ships centering on the Dornish—or at least their exodus tale—the franchise has the chance to redeem the maligned Game of Thrones Season 5 storyline that saw Jaime Lannister and (in a story change,) Bron immersed in the royal drama of the Martell family; a plot that—due to the breadth of Martin’s source material—was noticeably butchered both in its pacing and the alteration—and outright erasure—of key characters. This is particularly the case with the way the show handled the daughters of hedonistic, fighting fan fave Prince Oberyn Martell, collectively known as the Sand Snakes (which refers to their Dornish bastard surnames). Not only did their television manifestations—played by Henwick, Keisha Castle-Hughes and Rosabell Laurenti Sellers—come across as superficial, riddled with cliched femme-fatale tropes, but only three of the eight Sand Snakes depicted in the books appeared on the series.

HBO

Lastly, Flea Bottom, as implied by its working title, will be set in the filthy, claustrophobic and labyrinthine slums of King’s Landing. With alleys rife only with pubs, brothels (not quite Littlefinger’s fancy hen houses), tanneries and smithies, the perpetually impoverished denizens of Flea Bottom don’t have time for social niceties or material matters, and will literally stab one another in the back to procure a life-sustaining meal. While Flea Bottom was featured prominently on the original series, notably via the exploits of Arya, Gendry and Davos (with the latter two having hailed from it), this particular spinoff should significantly shift the franchise away from the luxuries of kings, queens and lords to the exploits of Westeros’ hovel-hiding hoi polloi. That alone makes it a good platform to capitalize on themes and story avenues missed on the original series.

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House of the Dragon is currently scheduled for a premiere on HBO in 2022. However, the array of fellow prospective Game of Thrones spinoff shows don’t quite have a specific timeframe as of yet.

The post Can the New Game of Thrones Spinoffs Redeem Missed Opportunities? appeared first on Den of Geek.

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