#LMS 5MT 'Black Five"

[engineer-gunzelpunk]

Spooky Locos: Night of the Demon (1957) and a bit of a revelation about my main char...

Quick shot of a Black Five in this final scene of this movie. Them Black Fives are fairly sinister, eh SpookyHenry?

Yes, SpookyHenry is a bit diabolical...

Hen says hello to Robert the Devil Engine (who belongs to @seaswine)

Yes, like his boyfriend Harry, Hen is a bit of a demon...

What else could he have been, he went up against the Island of Sodor's ''God" out of pride and was imprisoned for it..., and never gave up his delightful cussedness...

[engineer-gunzelpunk]

My boyyyyy!

Henry and his real-life basis; an LMS Stanier Black Five 4-6-0.

[guerrerense]

Burton Salmon Black Five por Matthew Cox Por Flickr: First outing with camera of 2024 consisted of LMS Class 5MT 4-6-0 No 44781 hauling Rail Touring Company’s ‘The White Rose’ from London Kings Cross to York seen passing Burton Lane crossing. 24/02/2024

[cerenemuxse]

The engines as different basis (EoSR but built different) - 1

(Tender engines as tank engines, vice versa)

From No. 1 - 6 (Thomas, Edward, Emily, Henry, Gordon, James)

NWR 1 Thomas (formerly LBSCR 307, SR 2307)

Class: London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway (LBSCR) Class C3 Horsham Goods

Previous Owners: London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway; Southern Railway; British Railways (Southern Region)

Built: August 1906

Real-life Withdrawal: May 1949 (never received a BR number)

Designer: Douglas Earle Marsh

Builder: Brighton Works

Bio:

Thomas is the first tender engine purchased by the NWR, after the withdrawals of the original NWR 1 - 6 (the last one being in 1925). The NWR had believed that they wouldn't need any tender engine power until the withdrawal of NWR 1 in 1925.

NWR 2 Edward (formerly W&SR 5)

Class: Dublin, Wicklow and Wexford Railway (DW&WR) 52 class; North Western Railway (NWR) Class S-W52

Previous Owners: Wellsworth & Suddery Railway

Built: 1893

Real-life Withdrawal: n/a

Designer: William Wakefield

Builder: Sharp, Stewart and Company (Glasgow, Scotland)

Bio:

Edward was commissioned by the Wellsworth and Suddery Railway. His design was altered so that he could run on standard gauge rails. When the merger occured, he was passed down to the NWR, along with Emily, and the NWR attempted to rebuild him so he could handle the new jobs. This did not work out, resulting in Edward having poor steaming issues. He was swapped with Emily, working lighter and fewer jobs.

NWR 3 Emily (formerly GNR 1009 and W&SR 6)

Class: Great Northern Railway (GNR) Class H1 Stirling Tank; North Western Railway (NWR) Class S-S1 Stirling Tank

Basis (Inspiration): GNR Stirling Single A3, GNR G1, and B&ER 4-2-4 tank engines

Previous Owners: Great Northern Railway; Wellsworth and Suddery Railway

Built: 1882

Real-life Withdrawal: n/a

Designer: Patrick Stirling

Builder: Doncaster Works

Bio:

Emily is an experimental tank engine version of the GNR A1, A2, and A3 Stirling Singles, with a wheel config of 4-2-4T. While she did perform decently, she did not perform as they expected so she was withdrawn. The Wellsworth and Suddery Railway took interest in Emily. They purchased her from the GNR before she could be sold to a scrapyard. She worked welled on the W&SR, able to be passed down to the NWR in 1915, along with Edward. She ended up replacing Edward on the express passenger service when the latter's rebuilds proved to worsen his performance.

NWR 4 Henry

Class: North Eastern Railway (NER) Class F; North Western Railway (NWR) Class S-S5 (4-6-4T) Black Five Tank

Basis (Inspiration): NER Class D (pre-1935); LNER Class A2 (pre-1935); LMS Class 5MT Black Fives (post-1935); LMS 4MT 2-6-4T (two-cylinder) (post-1935)

Previous Owners: Unknown

Built: 1920

Real-life Withdrawal: n/a

Designer: Vincent Raven; Henry Stanier

Builder: Unknown

Bio:

Henry was built from stolen duplicates of Vincent Raven's plans of a 4-6-2T, which were derived from the NER Class D (4-4-4T). Unfortunately, these duplicate plans were the discarded designs due to uneven weights on the chassis and the use of a Schmidt boiler. He was under-powered and a hazard to operate. Sir Louis Topham Hatt I was swindled to buy Henry in 1922 when promised that Henry would be the next best thing for railways. This was when the NWR believed that they wouldn't need tender engines to run the railway. After the Flying Kipper crash, Henry was rebuilt into a new class of his own, the LMS Class 5MT Black Five Tank.

NWR 5 Gordon

Class: Great Northern Railway (GNR) Class B1; North Western Railway (NWR) Class S-G1

Basis (Inspiration): GNR Gresley Class A1, GNR Gresley Class A3, and GNR Gresley Class N2

Previous Owners: Great Northern Railway

Built: 1920 - 1923

Real-life Withdrawal: n/a

Designer: Nigel Gresley

Builder: Doncaster Works

Bio:

Gordon is an experimental tank version of the GNR Gresley A1s, in hopes of surpassing the capabilities of the Gresley N2s. This did not work out but served as a basis for the LNER V1s. He was sold off to the NWR, replacing Emily on heavy passenger duty, which was the express service for the NWR.

NWR 6 James (formerly L&YR 506, LMS 11546)

Class: Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway (L&YR) Class 24; NWR Class S-A25

Previous Owners: L&YR, LNWR, LMS

Built: 1919

Real-life Withdrawal: 1959 (BR number would've been 51546)

Designer: John Audley Frederick Aspinall

Builder: Horwich Works

Bio:

James was bought as he was originally built in 1925. However, Sir Bertram Topham Hatt II ordered for James to be rebuilt into a 2-6-2T. This took well over a few months until they finally came up with a decent design. Unfortunately, James' great performance came at the cost of James' loosing his memories.

[old-transport]

BR (ex LMS) class 5MT (Black Five) loco No. 44916 @ Sheffield Midland by Frederick McLean Via Flickr: A photograph of locomotive No. 44916 at Sheffield Midland station. The photo is stuck in a old rail enthusiast album, unfortunately there is no date or photographer name, but they do appear to date from early/mid 1960s. No. 44916 was a W. Stanier designed class 5MT (Black Five), 4-6-0 engine, built at the Crewe Works and new to the London, Midland & Scottish Railway (LMS) in Dec 1945, carrying No. 4916. In 1948 the railways were nationalised, becoming British Railways (BR), engine No. 4916 became No. 44916. The locomotive was withdrawn from service by BR in Dec 1967, then scrapped in February of the following year. If there are any errors in the above description please let me know. Thanks. 📷 Any photograph I post on Flickr is an original in my possession, nothing is ever copied/downloaded from another location. 📷 -------------------------------------------------

[engineer-gunzelpunk]

Henry: Few too many? *chuckles*

Lorry: Kiss my flatbed, you rail rat!

Henry: I’m not the one with my arse hanging off a bank…

Oh my

[airmanisr]

Black Five At Irwell Vale by Andrew Harrison Via Flickr: 44871 Class 5MT 'Black 5' LMS 4-6-0 Under threatening autumnal clouds at Irwell Vale, 44871 was in service on the East Lancs Railway in October 2019 for a weekend gala event.

[daikenkki]

by TobyandMavisforever

Thomas:

Number: 1, formally 105

Class: LB&SCR E2

Designer: L. B. Billinton

Builder: Brighton Works

Built: 1915

Configuration: 0-6-0T

Arrived on Sodor: 1915

Top speed: 40-50 mph

Livery: NWR Blue (Formally LB&SCR Brown and Wartime Black)

Edward:

Number: 2, formally 22

Class: Furness Railway K2 'Larger Seagull'.

Designer: Sharp, Stewart and Co.

Builder: Sharp, Stewart and Co.

Built: 1896

Configuration: 4-4-0

Arrived on Sodor: 1915

Top speed: TBC

Livery: NWR Blue (Formally FR Red and Wartime Black)

Henry:

Number: 3, formally didn't have one

Class: LMS Stanier "Black Five" 5MT, originally GNR Ivatt C1/Gresley A1 hybrid

Designer: Sir Topham Hatt

Read more

[engineer-gunzelpunk]

I got myself a Black Five badge…feat. Old Square Wheels

It came with a neat little card about Black Five facts… and mentions our Hennie…

‘And don’t you forget it!’

[engineer-gunzelpunk]

You're onto something here... the transformation from effete patrician pseudo-Gresley to rugged plebeian true-blue Black Five definitely had an effect on Henry's mentality.

The understandable off-screen limitations of the model series prevented them from fully conveying the real ruggedness of the Black Five shape, in particular the early riveted form that Henry was built into but at the very least they conveyed a little of the shape with the steam pipes, Belpaire-like firebox and overall clean lines...

But once they added splashers in Season 2 it was the old inaccuracy problem that afflicted the RWS all over again... but the true problem was the writing when it departed from Awdry.

In the RWS, and this is my speculation, Awdry likely wanted to convey that shift in mentality in Henry by having him depicted as the then (in the book, 1935 when the 5MT Black Stanier just was introduced) newest, most rugged and then the most popular all-rounder locomotive design (1951 when "Henry The Green Engine"was put out) from that failed pseudo-Gresley GCR/LNER hybrid that attempted to ape patrician Gresley and failed.

In the TV series I am unsure why they decided to put the splashers back on and effectively turn him into an LMS Jubilee clone. Visual familiarity? I guess they thought they could get away with it.

I blame everything about Henry's wimpification in the TVS on his splashers

Henry I had splashers, as part of his Doncaster-knockoff, high-strung, fussy-and-delicate vibe:

Post-rebuild, Henry should have an elevated running board (cost-prohibitive for TVS to get too accurate about the difference, and that's okay) but also, as a huge visual cue, no splashers.

This was easy enough to do (the splashers on the model were detachable—as was the smokebox), and Season 1 did it!

It helps him look so badass though—

But then in Season 2 they put the splashers back on?

And we've been stuck with "fancy pants" Henry II ever since.

Of course in RWS he consistently retains his post-rebuild shape, with its clean strong lines.

Which definitely help this illustration look so damn iconic:

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(most images pulled from the Thomas Wiki—though i played around with the saturation and sharpness on the last one)

[engineer-gunzelpunk]

Let Me Down Easy (Crewe 1935, excerpt) CW: coarse language

“There’s a better time waiting for me...”

Firing time, this will show if the old demons have been exorcised.

“Ready, boy?”

“Yes”

Fire lit, coal arranged. A hissing emanates from within the entirety of Henry’s new shape. The thin little needle on the pressure gauge steadily rises. The fire roars hot and hungry within the firebox, a living thing in and of itself. Hello friend, it seems to say. Let me burn bright for you... The injection pump awakened by steam brings clean fresh water flowing to his boiler. Circulation pump brings hot to cold. Water drips from the drainage cocks. Steam builds flowing through the super-heater tubes as the water seethes. It feels nothing less than fantastic, like that first taste of Welsh Coal. If I could arch my back and howl triumphantly, I would.

sssssssssssssssssssssssssSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Yes, yes yes yes yes, YES!

Fucking YES!

FUCKING YES!

I feel so fucking alive right now.

“Pressure is going very well, boy! You might have to calm down a scotch else we are going to have to vent out a bit and drench everyone in steam…”

“Everything seems to be in order…”

All over, within and without, the workers check for leaks; gently tap his wheels, oil up his axels, check this or that bit of equipment. Everything feels weird and sensitive for being so new. Even with the special coal, he didn’t feel as raw as he does now, and not so powerful. Even twiddling the knobs in the cab feels slightly painful… and pleasantly so.

He was numb, even on good days in his old shape. The consequences of endless fuckery in the old chop-shop left him benumbed physically. The fact he could muster only a little steam contributed to this feeling of numb emptiness.

But now, having been not just rebuilt, but healed, in a true sense meant the world had really come alive for him. The sensation of oiled axels and motion, the steam flowing through his cylinders, the fire that united with him in his lovely new firebox.

I won't ever take for granted any of this, ever again.

“My body slips away, into weightlessness...”

“You can come out now, Henry!”

With a triumphant blast of the whistle and wreathed in white clouds of pure steam, Henry moved out of the workshop, wheel-slipping a bit as he does in excitement. Time was that even lifting his own motion was too hard, but now it was weightless. All of this strength, all of this power at hand that he could now access.

(Inspired by this video of the beautiful LMS 5MT 5025 and some of the commentary).

[engineer-gunzelpunk]

Why did they cover this locomotive in wallpaper?

The answer may surprise you…

This is a very good video on this particular engine and touches on the role Black Fives played on the last day of steam on the BR.

[engineer-gunzelpunk]

This needs to be a RWS style story, it just has to.

[engineer-gunzelpunk]

Victorian Railways represent! Love to see VR loco appreciation on Tumblr … the S-Classes were very beautiful Oz Gresleyish engines. (That yellow stripe down the side was actual gold leaf! The height of glamor and style.)

For me… it’s definitely:

VR H-Class

VR R-Class

VR A2 Class

VR K-class

LMS 5MT ‘Black Five’

NSWGR C38 Pacifics

Alright people! I have a question for you all.

What locomotive (Steam/Diesel/Electric/Whatever) do you love like it's a favourite of yours, or love so much that it could almost be call an obsession?

(That's a bad thing btw)

For me it's the:

NBR H Class Atlantics

GWR 4000 Class

PRR T1

LNER A1/A3's

VR S Class

[guerrerense]

Steam Locomotive .. por Janet Cartwright Por Flickr: Arriving at Hull Station to take part in Filming the forties TV Drama called the "Blitz".....LMS Stanier Class 5MT 4932, is a preserved British steam locomotive. It is one of 18 surviving members of the Black 5 class which had 842 members constructed by five manufacturers. 44932 is the sole remaining member of the class which was built at the LMS's Horwich Works.

[guerrerense]

Ex LMS/Stanier 5MT (Black Five) 4-6-0 44871 por Kevin Wood Por Flickr: Rawtenstall Station (ELR) on the 22nd January 2012