#Just from a glance there's no way B!Supreme Leader and SF!Supreme Leader are put in the same situation
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randomnameless · 10 months ago
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Regarding to the negative character development in Nopes. How do you consider Supreme leader's route to be worse than the original route? I wanna know your thoughts on her character and the route itself.
You mean on Supreme Bullshit?
I prefer her in CF - even if we have the "lel professor Supreme Leader was mourning you for 5 years while you were absent (and no one conveniently thought to explore that damn ravine where you fell to see if maybe you were still alive) but now that you've returned we can maybe stop being in a stalemate against Faerghus and finally roll over Derdriu!" pandering shit, because even if it came with wonderful Supreme One Liners and Replies, in CF, Supreme Leader kills her enemies herself!
Sure it comes at the cost of the most badass Shonen Explosion I've ever seen in the FE Series, and yet, for her, that explosion meant her role was ultimately reduced to the role of a mosquito : sure it's annoying and you want to smash it, but when you look around to find someone/something to smash it, you happen on an agressive venomous snake, who cares about the mosquito now?
We know how fandom is about Supreme Leader and her actions and her uwu agency - in Supreme Bullshit, we're left in the vague about what her MAGA plans entails because she doesn't finish her quest - Nopes ends before the epilogue - and it's almost as if the Nopes!devs didn't want her to deal final blows herself, or have her hands be "as clean" as possible as the ones who are erased are either peons or secondary/tertiary characters : Supreme Leader isn't the one who splits Rhea's head open in this route, Rhea and Thales take each other out, heck, she doesn't want to liberate Fodlan from inhuman monsters anymore, it's Claude who parrots to whoever wants to listen that Rhea has to die (and yet, Supreme Leader still wants to make Garreg Mach Rhea's tomb... maybe it's a considerate gesture on her part, to have her reunite with her family?) Speaking of him if conditions are reunited, he "forces her" to kill him, because he betrays her first :'(
In CF, Supreme Leader - when she finally has the means (aka Billy!) to do so - attacks all of her enemies, even turning against the Agarthans (rip cornelia?) and it's only because the plot is held by duct tape and chewing-gum that she somehow avoids retaliation because Uncle is too stupid and wasted his nukes on Arianrhod instead of nuking Firdhiad when both Supreme Leader and Rhea would be there !
However, the facts still stand : Supreme Leader dealt a blow at the Agarthans, ended the Nabatean presence in Fodlan, personally erased Faerghus' line of Kings and conquered the Alliance.
Sure she tells Balthus she will crush everyone who doesn't side with her, but when it comes to Lords/Main antagonists... when CF had her swing Aymr - even against defeated characters who fell on their knees and aren't fighting anymore - SB brings out convoluted circumstances to either has her fight because she is attacked and thus on the defensive (which is rich when she's supposed to be the invader!) by an ally whose motivation never made sense but who is now suddenly betraying her and all of his former allies who joined with her (GG Clout) or... Rhea gets her Big Damn Hero moment, fulfilling the initial promise/oath she swore on that route (help humans to get rid of Agarthans) and supposedly dies in the process, while Supreme Leader - the oathbreaker - pulls out her best impression of Tuxedo Mask "my job here is done - but you didn't do a thing" ending on a High Five.
Imo it's very telling that the only main character who can be alive at the end of SB is Dimitri - because he is the character Supreme Leader wants dead at all costs, and if the Nopes!Devs wrote Zarhofl as they did, I wonder how they could and might have justified a metting between the two that doesn't end up in Supreme Leader Aymr'ing him (maybe Cornelia would have conviently warped there and stabbed him to death, so her hands would still be "clean" ?).
In short, I prefer CF!Supreme Leader (or her FE16 version sans the pandering) because she is determinate and wants to achieve her goals, even if she has to be ruthless to do so - and we see that ruthlessness (even if it's poorly executed) in CF, Supreme Leader kills named and main characters to MAGA (and to free humanity from those vile subhumans).
In SB, she is always... put in situations where she "has to" protect herself from either backstabbing allies, or, when push comes to shove, her enemies are conveniently at the same place at the same time and take each other out : FFS, it's Rhea who takes out the leader of the Agarthans, and it's Thales who removes Nabateans from Fodlan. What is all that determination good for if, in the end, she's not the one solving the issues?
Oh, and because I'm petty like that : why the fuck the sailor fuku, seriously - sure her red dress (the one from her legendary version!) isn't as, uh, battle compatible as, say, Queen Elincia's battle outfit, and yet there's something really disturbing about the Sailor Fuku. Supreme Leader is regal, commanding, even with the red dress. Her final outfit (Willy's armor retrofitted with boobplates?) is, well, a full suit of armor, Supreme Leader is a warrior and leading her troops to victory, she will battle and fight herself even in melee.
The Sailor Fuku is... just some generic Anime design, I know she has a plate but come on, comparing this to her Emperor battlesuit, it's almost as if we're not in the same genre anymore - it's war phase now, Supreme Leader is dead serious about her plans and her ambition, she's not the "school girl who will also go to war!" - compare the three outfits, which one doesn't scream "Emperor" to you?
So yeah, short (short) story : while I like SB for Shonen explosions and more exposition about Adrestia, imo, this route is worse for Supreme Leader's agency than any other route in FE16 (AG takes the cake in its last part though!) because while she has it, in the end, she doesn't do a thing with it :
MAGA? Dimitri cannot be killed in the game, she leaves the task to Clout who doesn't do it and worse, who can betray her :( so she has to kill him :(
Frre Humanity from the sekrit nabatean illuminati and the agarthan terrorists? She just kicks them from their homes (Agarthans managed to infiltrate Adrestia, she kicks them out of her land) and they managed to take each other out.
Sure, she knows how to highfive at the end of this route, but was it really worth all those sacrifices, aka, to get rid of conqueror and determinate!Supreme Leader to have instead sailor fuku!Supreme Leader who knows how to highfive?
I know they're not meant to be compared because different circumstances and all, but can you imagine a second, a Jugdral spin-off AU much like Nopes is, where Arvis wears a high school uniform but Siggy, Manfroy and Travant accidently kill each other so he gets the continent on a silver platter without having to do any fighting or planning himself?
That's Supreme Bullshit for Supreme Leader, and that's why I think this route doesn't paint her in the best light, especially compared to her FE16 version.
#anon#replies#3 nopes#I wouldn't say it's negative character development per se since Supreme Leader never develops even in FE16#her objectives are the same than in FE16 but she isn't the one#who achieves them#sure in the end it's just a technicality she won in Nopes sans AG#but who wants to see their protag set up goals and not be the one to reach them? especially since it's Supreme Leader's drive#and in CF the plot moved pretty quickly to let's kill the big bad (and maga)#in SB the big bads kill themselves while we're sitting on the bench#hell it's Barney who throws a sword at Thales to help Rhea in this scene#Supreme Leader is just o_o#and ends her route with a high five#“my job here is done”#ultimately i think the nopes!dev wanted to push the waifu angle card at the cost of Supreme Leader's character traits#much like Vero from feh who became suddenly redeemed through brainwash and eviler than her family members popping up#the second she won the second CYL#I still think Gustadolv merchandising would have sold#maybe not dakimakuras but why the need to waifuise characters to sell them ffs#Just from a glance there's no way B!Supreme Leader and SF!Supreme Leader are put in the same situation#and yet they are? Aka both leaders of an Empire conquering the world and out on the battlefield to axe those who oppose her?#so they wrote her according to this design 'she wants to conquer but she's still a loveable schoolgirl whose hands aren't bloody!'#yeah no#idk but imo that's not Supreme Leader#at least FE16 tried to tone down this aspect even if it ultimately permeates the game#but Nopes isn't even hiding it anymore
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