#Italian Carcano M91/38

[kei-truck]

happy sajturday

[objectum-smash-or-pass]

[peashooter85]

What guns don't belong, and what guns should be in Red Dead Redemption 2

So I having been playing RDR2 quite a bit recently. It's an amazing game and while not necessarily 100% historically accurate, I find that it does a perfect job of weaving real history with Wild West folklore to create a game that is immersive and historically authentic. When it comes to the firearms featured in the game, there are some hits and some misses when it comes to historical accuracy, assuming of course that Rockstar intended to make a game that was 100% accurate (which they didn't). I understand Rockstar needed to take some liberties when creating the game so I'm not necessariy criticizing them (except for one), just educating on what inaccuracies exist and setting the record straight.

First the most glaring inaccuracy is the presence of the Volcanic repeater.

Invented by Horace Smith and Daniel Wesson in 1854, these lever action pistols were sold in the mid 1850's. Right away we have a big anachronism problem as the events of RDR2 take place in 1899. So they would not have been sold in stores and considering less than 2000 were manufactured would not have been owned by anyone other than wealthy antiquities collectors. Furthermore in game the pistol is considered the most powerful pistol available next to the sawed off shotgun. The real volcanic pistol used what was called the rocket ball, which was a bullet with a hollowed out center which was filled with gunpowder and fitted with a percussion cap. Rather than being an extremely powerful round, the Volcanic was a commercial flop because it used an extremely underpowered round. After all only so much powder can be stuffed into the small cavity of the rocket ball. It's easy to see though why Rockstar chose to add this pistol to it's games because it sure looks the part of a cool Wild West firearm.

Another pistol that doesn't belong in the game is the Model 1893 Borchardt pistol, known as the "semi automatic" pistol in game.

I'm glad to see that Rockstar added semi auto pistols as the turn of the century would have been the time when semi autos would have begun to hit the commercial market. The German broomhandle pistol is featured in the game and is accurate as they were being retailed in the United States by 1899 and while present, are not that all common, being expensive in the game and in real life in 1899. However the Borchardt certainly does not belong. Invented by the German gun designer Hugo Borchardt in Germany in 1893, the Borchardt never became popular due to poor ergonomics and it's complicated design which made them prohibitively expensive. Only around 3,000 were produced. So theoretically the Borchardt would have been present in 1899 United States, but would have been extremely rare. Certainly a firearm that wouldn't have been for sale in any gunstore, not even in Saint Denis, and at best a one of a kind firearm that Arthur Morgan might only find once during the entire game.

The Italian Carcano Rifle is a firearm in RDR2 that really kind of boggles my mind. First and foremost, they did not use the Carcano Model 1891 which would have been period accurate.

But instead they used Carcano M91/38 which was a World War II carbine.

Why did Rockstar do this? I haven't a clue. But theoretically the M1891 Carcano could have been around in the US in 1899. However, Italy wasn't much of an arms exporter and M1891 rifles were military rifles for the Italian Army which were generally not available for commercial sale. Some could have been captured by Ethiopian forces during the First Italo-Ethiopian War (1895) and could have made their way to the United States, but at best in game it should be a one of a kind item that can't be found in stores.

The Evans Repeater is popular in the game because of its 26 round ammo capacity, the real Evan's had a 28 round capacity, produced between 1873 and 1879 with around 15,000 produced. It was a failed model because it was very expensive and due to the complexity of it's 28 round helical magazine, which suffered from reliability issues. It was also chambered for odd calibers such as .44 Evans and .44 New Model so ammunition availability and price was an issue. So yes, it was a gun that could be available as a one of a kind item but certainly not for sale in common stores.

The "Cowboy Repeater" and the "Lichfield Repeater" are based upon the Spencer Rifle and the M1860 Henry Rifle respectively.

Both were lever action rifles produced in the 1860's, and while cutting edge firearms technology during the American Civil War, by 1899 they would have been considered quaint antiques. The M1860 Henry rifle would have been rare to find in 1899, as there were only 14,000 made. The Spencer rifle would have been common as there were over 200,000 made. However this is the base carbine available at the beginning of the game, and it seems like they are everywhere and everyone has one. By 1899 I doubt any serious outlaws, gangsters, police, lawmen, Pinkertons, soldiers, guards or bounty hunters would actually use them. By the 1870's it's lever action design was outdated, the lever only advancing the next cartridge and ejecting a spent casing while the hammer had to be cocked separately with every shot. I could see the Spencer being common with the Murfree Brood, being a poor backwoods gang who couldn't afford better and had to rely upon heirloom antiques. But the most common carbine of the game? Very unlikely.

Guns I Think Should've Been in the Game.

The Carcano rifle kind of weirds me out. Why is it there? Why did the developers with Rockstar choose it over other models? Why the WW2 Carcano instead of a period model? What would have made a better rifle to feature in the game was the M1893 Mauser bolt action rifle.The M1893 was the standard issue rifle of the Spanish Army.

And what war took place just a year before events of the game? The Spanish American War. Made in Germany and Belgium the M1893 and 1895 carbine were purchased by Spain to arm their military. At the time, it was the peak of bolt action technology. The rifle was so good that it was the main reason the US Army ditched the M1898 Krag (known simple as the "bolt action rifle" in game) and developed the M1903 Springfield which utilized a Mauser action. I don't see why this rifle wasn't featured prominently in Guarma (Chapter 5), as after the Spanish American War there would have been thousands of these floating around Cuba and used by all factions. To me, it was an opportunity lost.

The Winchester M1895 was a lever action rifle famous for using a box magazine rather than a traditional tubular magazine. This had several advantages, including easier loading using stripper clips and the ability to use more powerful rifle cartridges using pointed spitzer bullets.

The M1895 was a favorite of explorers, hunters, lawmen, outlaws, soldiers, and even US President Theodore Roosevelt. Hundreds of thousands were made and it quickly became one of the most popular rifles of the era. And man, it just looks like a gun that should be in RDR2, like the Volcanic. Unlike the Volcanic, it would have been historically accurate.

Finally, what RDR2 needs are cheap break top double action revolvers. The Schofield revolver is featured in the game, but it is a slow firing single action revolver with a powerful cartridge. What is needed is a cheap break top double action revolver chambered in relatively weak cartridges such as .32 or .38 Smith & Wesson. The "Cowboy Revolver" based on the M1873 Single Action Army is the most common pistol of the game and a base revolver, however by 1899 the M1873 was waning in popularity. By then, the most popular pistol of the time were double action break top revolvers produced by companies such as Smith & Wesson, Iver Johnson, and Harrington & Richardson. They were popular because they were light, compact, and most importantly extremely cheap. Not necessarily reliable or powerful, but affordable and plentiful. Rather than the Cowboy Revolver, pistols like these should probably be the most common pistol of the game, especially among street gangs and thugs of Saint Denis or the Murfree Brood, who could afford little better.

[joyfriend]

jfk fandom grab your 6.5×52mm Italian Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle

[peashooter85]

I meant to send this a week ago when you posted about the guns of RDR2 but (and apologies that this is going to be a bit of a ramble) as annoying as the choices are from a historic perspective I can understand why they went with a lot of them from a “we made the choices on some of these almost a decade ago and it would be weird not to have them in the prequel and also we’re making a game that’s more about being a western than a historical piece” perspective. Like the Volcanic pistol makes no sense in either RDR but it definitely looks cool, and using the M91/38 Carcano instead of a Spanish Mauser or even a plain old M91 Carcano makes sense in a meta textual “let’s pretend we’ve got the same constraints as an Italian production company’s armorer working on a western in the late 1960s” sense. And to be fair to them, they did change the C96 to a much more accurate version instead of the M712 that was in RDR1.

To be honest the most egregious thing gun-wise to me in RDR2 is that they maintain fidelity to the way the guns they chose to feature actually functioned in 99.9% of the game and then in a single late-game cutscene they have John Marston magically flip out the cylinder of his Colt SAA to check if it’s still loaded.

Hehe haven't gotten to that part yet