#It's not Marinette's responsability to fix her tormentors

[nothingtherefornow]

Which is why I was so infuriated with the rest of Marinette and Adrien's classmates during Revelation. I know they're kids but for Gimmi's sake could they try to put themselves in Marinette's shoes for once instead of taking her for granted and thinking badly of her everytime she has a negative opinion about somoene ?!!

You know that's remind me of something I've seen in a Manhwa :

And that's exactly what we often see in Miraculous :

As soon as Chloé does something nice, everyone conveniently forget all the awful things she did, or the fact that Chloé never once apologized or regretted those things.

And as soon as Marinette shows dislike toward somoene and doesn't bend all the way to help them, everyone quickly forget all the numerous good things Marinette for acquaintances, friends family and strangers without expecting anything in return, and start to think of her as a bad person.

It's really a "the wicked have an easy life and don't have to try hard to gain a good reputation, while the good samaritans must always answer to unfair expectations and be harsly judged and taken for granted" mentality.

That's why Marinette and Adrien's classmates are walking on very thin ice, and fall really low in my esteem.

About Evil teenagers antagonists in Miraculous

I currently wonder how can some fans still want a redemption for somoene like Chloé who willingly hurt people just because that's was her definition of "fun".

Why not accept Chloé as somoene evil ? Just because she's 14 years old ? Just because Gabriel was worst than her doesn't take away the fact that Chloé is a truly bad person who has the potential to become as evil, if not worse than Gabriel while growing up.

Even in real life, adults are not the only ones who are capable of cruelty and crimes. If only adults were capable of monstrosity, I wouldn't have 14-year-olds killing each other with callache nikoffs in the drug trafficking districts of my city. we wouldn't have young people beating up little ones and pushing others to suicide and absolutely not regretting their actions. And we wouldn't have stories to raise eyebrows about kids capable of committing murder and acts of torture without necessarily having been abused in their lives.

To me, anyone who loves to make others suffer for their own sick pleasure (and their victims are people who objectively don't deserve such cruelty) has serious mental issues and can be a danger to others.

Both Chloé and Lila love to make others people suffer or don't care about hurting innocents, and they certainly don't feel any empathy for anyone, or in Chloé's case, no longer feel any empathy (she may have felt sympathy and empathy for Adrien at some point, like during the episode Felix in season 3, but that's definitly no longer the case as soon as Adrien asked her to stop being a biatch). Maybe Lila may feel a form of attachment toward her mothers, yet that doesn't stop her from manipulating them and fooling them in a way that's pretty cruel if you dig deeper in Lila's scale of truancy and imposterization.

I know that technically when a 14 year old kid behaves like Lila and Chloé we could say to ourselves that it is unfair to give them no chance and to condemn them when they are only 14-15 years old and could change for the better if they could be guided on the right path.

But Miraculouse is a show in which the superheroes with the fate of the world in their hands are 14 year old kids. And as such in this fictitious reality, other 14 year olds are perfectly likely to become real cruel and threatening villains i without any scruples, especialy if they are influenced by the wickedness of an adult supervillain.

And I believe that Gabriel's evilness only made Chloé's and Lila's wickedness worse.

He put those two girls in positions of power where they could hurt others and act according to their darkest and Manichean impulses. And Lila and Chloé would only want more taste of that power to crush others. And you know how power easilly corrupt the most greedy hearts.

On several occasions, Gabriel even approved of Lila and Chloe's horrible plans and actions. He has encouraged Lila on numerous occasions to "get rid of" Marinette, thus giving the impression that he supports Lila's jealousy, and during collusion he will have the nerve to say that Chloé's ideas, which consist literally ruining the academic future of your classmates and putting your pregnant teacher in jail for no good reason are good ideas. Having a rich adult in a position to approve of their actions in this way will only have given Lila and Chloe the feeling that their acts of cruelty and malice are justified, and thus reinforced their evil nature.

On several occasions we have seen Chloe and Lila voluntarily let themselves be akumatized, and worse than that, we have seen them plan to be akumatized (Chloe in Penalteam, and Lila in Revelation) and not for understandable reasons like that of a desperate Jalil brainwashed by lies on social media. Because Lila and Chloe have only ever been motivated by their narcicism, their ego, and their desire to get revenge on people they hate for the most pettiest, vain and selfish reasons possible.

Lila and Chloé may be kids, but they are evil teenagers, because they would gladly become supervillain if that means getting what they want. And what they want is anything but noble. For their selfish goals, Lila and Chloé were willing to endanger the city they live in and all its inhabitants. I don't even know if I can still call Lila and Chloé kids or teenagers, with how far they're willing to go and hurt people for the sake of their ambitions.

Although there's still the possibility that Lila may be an adult with a youngfull appearance or a hormonal abnormality making her look like a teenager when she could be an adult. But that would risk making her a pedophile so I don't think the show will go that far ^^ At most they could give her the same as Théo Barbot

But an antagonist adult would be needed then to balance an antagonist teenager supervillain.

Good thing we still have Tomoe Tsurugi then

It's tragic that Chloé and Lila wickedness and evilness could be due to serious mental issues or Chloé's bad upbringing, and the show may have decided that it's more important to protect others from the harm Chloé and Lila can cause rather than to prioritize "helping" them with their issues. Both Marinette and Adrien proposed another path for Chloé to chose, one that could have helped her heal from the emotional and mental wounds her mother's abandonment and neglect. Chloé instead chose Hawkmoth's/Monarch

Ladybug offered Lila her friendship, and Adrien also offered Lila to be there for her as long as she didn't hurt those he loved. Yet both Lila and Chloe voluntarily chose to continue committing bad deeds and hurting others, regardless of the fact that someone reached out to them and offered them another path to get love, acknowledgement and recognition from people. Adrien and Marinette don't have to sacrifice their mental health for people who wish them harm, so I understand very well that it wasn't and won't be their priority to help Chloé and Lila find potential redemption. And especially when Lila and Chloe seem determined to refuse to change and continue to cling to their wickedness.

It should be the adults responsabilities to deal with Chloé and Lila issues, and unfortunatelly the adults in Miraculous are pretty lousy and incompetents. It's very tragic when we don't know that one kid is a psychopath, and if another has always gotten away with his narcissistic behavior disorder and nothing had ever been done to help them deal with that issue, that only leaves the opportunity for the seed of evil in these kids to germinate and flourish, and then reach the level of nastiness that is more often found in adults.

[richardsphere]

Seeing as the poll is literally inviting comments: Chloe wasn't made "irredeemable" she just wasn't redeemed (and hopefully wont be). There is a significant distinction.

Now lets start by saying: I have a horse in this race. Growing up in a household where forgiveness seven-times-seventy-times was the Literal Gospel, and being told in school to "just give them a second chance"while the teachers never did anything about my bullies and the TV kept showing me cartoons where children eventually got to know their bullies as people and sometimes even grew beyond their bully-ness and became good friends left me in a bad place mentally in childhood. Personally I think that makes me more qualified to speak on the subject of the dangers of preaching endless second chances to children, but I understand that some may decry personal experience as a form of bias instead. If you do believe experience is bias, Then you can consider these Biases hereby formally disclosed. That being said: I am personally absolutely god-damn sick of children's media saying "just give your bullies and abusers a second chance, Because if you just give them enough second chances they'll turn their life around and stop being pieces of shit". Its the sort of pro-abuser propaganda that raises children to try and fix their tormentors. Children should be taught that it isn't their responsibility to fix their bullies and I love miraculous for sending the right message in that regards.

Chloe's arc was a humanization arc, not a redemption arc. And that is exactly the right arc for the intended child-audience. Telling kids that people like her are still people and how they come to be that way lets her serve as a warning not to become like her. But a redemption arc would've inevitably told kids the wrong lesson. That it is up to the victim to fix their abuser.

So compared to literally every other piece of childrens media I had growing up? This show would get a 10/10, no notes no demerits. Having the characters say "fuck the bitch" and putting her on a plane to New York is the perfect way of telling hopeless children victim to real-life Chloe's that: 1- It isnt their responsibility to fix your abusers. And possibly more importantly: 2- At some point in the future, There will be a Post-them era in their life. An idea that I need to stress, for a child of that age, can seem entirely alien if they've spent years going to school with them, doing everything right, going to the teachers and still nothing ever changes... The idea that one day you wont be trapped in a building with your abuser every day forever is a notion that I personally, at that age, could not really grasp in a meaningful way beyond the purely-hypothetical. The idea of a post-bully future would've seriously done great for my mental health if I'd seen it on the TV even once growing up. I cannot imagine the amount of children who wouldn't struggle half-as-much as I did with the idea of Suicide as Escape if they got to see the idea of a world "after" their bullies in their media at that age. And it is at this point in this little improvised essay that I realise that V5 ends in the wish... a giant magical retcon button that will no doubt result in Chloe having never left Paris in the first place... so that message of hope that "even this will come to pass" probably wont last for the shows audience...

Now to preempt the inevitable subject of hypothetical future story-lines: I'm honestly completely indifferent to the idea of a potential future redemption arc, as long as the show manages to make such a hypothetical arc clearly not Marinette's or any other victims responsibility, and makes it clear that her victims have no moral obligation to forgive her for a lifetime of torment.

Assuming those bars are both met I wouldn't care one way or another, Unfortunately although that bar is set so low its literally underground... it's nonetheless a bar I don't believe the show would be willing/able to clear if it came to it (for structural and formulaic reasons). So I'm Happy with where Revolution left Chloe's character-arc... but deeply afraid that the Reset Button of the Wish has already been pressed and Chloe Stans might get their dreaded redemption arc anyway.