#In conclusion... not only did Bucky not exist while the Winter Soldier was activated

[buckydeservesthebest]

The difference between Comic Bucky and MCU Bucky is something that I always felt like fans haven't fully understood. Not just because of his character development but because of the very way HYDRA turned him into the Winter Soldier.

Comic Bucky does fall into the category of someone who was indoctrinated, HYDRA remolded and shaped a man with amnesia based on their ideals, turning him into an agent loyal to them, so there was no need to take away his agency and autonomy. Comic Bucky, as the Winter Soldier, had enough sense of self to have a clandestine affair with Natasha, even when it went against the orders of his superiors.

MCU Bucky is totally different, he not only had his memory and therefore his identity taken away, but HYDRA didn't give him a new one. There is not a single hint to show that he would even associate himself with the name of the Winter Soldier. He was only responding to the orders of whoever at the time was his handler.

The Winter Soldier had no emotions, desires, motivations, values, likes or dislikes, beliefs or thoughts of his own, none of the defining characteristics of a sense of self. The Winter Soldier was the remnant non-person left once everything that made Bucky himself no longer existed.

From the pure script of CA:TWS, before the idea of the trigger words was developed, the idea that as the Winter Soldier, Bucky was NOT in control of his faculties, was already clear. The Art of Captain America: The Winter Soldier book itself literally says so.

This refutes the idea that not only did Bucky not exist while the Winter Soldier program was activated, but that the Winter Soldier himself was a tool with no will of his own and no autonomy and was only programmed to follow orders, just as The Wakanda Files book, which is recognized as canonical, describes his mind control as a sleep-like state trance.

Members of Marvel's own production have themselves acknowledged on numerous occasions that as the Winter Soldier, Bucky had no control over his actions, and that the idea of decisiveness and self-determination was taken away from him, and that the Winter Soldier's activation was a kind of autopilot devoid of any kind of humanity.

I think in addition to the scene where Pierce mocks the Winter Soldier's literal lack of ability to make decisions, with the sarcastic question about whether he wanted milk. The Helicarrier crash scene, also implies the Winter Soldier's inability to do anything more than what his handlers order him to do, as he stayed to fight Steve even though staying in a giant flying ship that goes down puts his life at risk.

My theory is that the order Pierce gave him was to try to kill Steve if he tried to make him remember, which is why the Winter Soldier maintained more of a defensive approach to protect the success of Project Insight, which involved stopping Steve, but he didn't try to kill him directly. The Winter Soldier did not take a more violent approach until Steve told him "you know me". (the analysis of this scene deserves a whole thread, surely there are already several, but I'll do my two cents worth later.)

My point is that staying in the Helicarrier that is about to collide makes no sense after the failure of Project Insight, coupled with the fact that it defies anyone's survival instincts, and would make no sense unless the Winter Soldier was forced to stay there to accomplish the secondary mission which would be to kill Steve for his attempt to make him remember.

I think the Winter Soldier's rampage in CW is also clear evidence of more robotic/programmed behavior than a series of actions coming from decisions.

Apparently the mission Zemo ordered him to do was to get to the roof, take a helicopter and escape, and neutralize anyone who tried to stop him. That is why the Winter Soldier mainly returned fire from his attackers, but when the way was clear he continued on his way to the helicopter, which was his mission, and did not focus on definitively eliminating his enemies.

Also, the way in which the Winter Soldier held Steve in a chokehold while he was still inside the helicopter that was beginning to fall off the edge of a building, is not an action that someone who is capable of making his own decisions would do, because clearly he is putting his life at risk for no benefit, and if it were not for Steve, he probably would not have survived.

The Winter Soldier did not have the ability to make decisions of his own that were not directly related to an order he was previously given, he did not even speak unless his handlers asked him to provide certain information.

If the Winter Soldier did not have the capacity to even reason the sarcastic question Pierce asked him about whether he wanted milk, much less could he reason the "speech" he gave him about "HYDRA doing some good." Because having none of the characteristics of the sense of self, the Winter Soldier could not reason the moral nature of the acts, nor come to the conclusion that he is doing any "good".

It always seemed to me that that speech, is nothing more than what Pierce is used to doing as a corrupt politician, manipulating people by selling them a false version of reality. That's why Korpov was never seen trying to give speech to the Winter Soldier to "secure his loyalty" or anything like that, because:

a) it wasn't necessary as the sleep-like mind control already stripped the Winter Soldier of his ability to control his actions.

b) the Winter Soldier simply didn't have the mental capacity to reason out any speech as he had no sense of self.

I've seen a lot of differing opinions on how aware Bucky was as the Winter Soldier under brainwashing. Some say he was fully aware but just indoctrinated into wanting to follow orders, while others say he was a programed machine with no control basically.

I just wanted to ask what your opinion on that topic was. I love your other metas btw 💕

Sorry for the late reply! I’ve been somewhat away from Tumblr and I’ll try to work through the bunch of asks that I’ve missed.

The theories that say Bucky was aware and simply indoctrinated tend to be based on his comics origin. I haven’t actually read Brubaker’s run myself, but my understanding is comics Bucky was far more aware of his actions. While I think he still didn’t know his true identity because of his amnesia, he had far more self-awareness and independent thought.

For me, MCU Bucky is not someone who had the capacity to make his own decisions. The fact that the “wipe” manages to deprive him of every frame of reference including even his most recent memories of his missions means he simply doesn’t have the understanding to make judgements. It also seems to me that they erase his sense of identity - comics Bucky may not know his true identity, he at least had an intact sense of self, while MCU Bucky has a robotic, impersonal demeanour when he’s freshly wiped and in mission mode (both the Helicarrier scene and the Civil War activation scenes show Bucky in this very mechanical, depersonalised state). Certainly both of those scenes suggest Bucky doesn’t have much contextual awareness of who and what he’s fighting for. In particular in the Civil War scenes, it suggests that voluntary thought was stripped from him when he’s “activated” by the code words. He doesn’t respond to Howard calling his name, nor does he recognise Sam and Steve later when Zemo activates the Soldier.

I think a lot of the early meta (from 2014) theorised that maybe he was only brainwashed because of that grand speech Pierce gives him (“Your work has been a gift to mankind. You shaped the century. I need you to do it one more time”). He seems to be appealing to the Bucky that we remember from CATFA, who would’ve stepped up at the beckoning of a greater cause. But to me, that scene was…maybe a bit of Pierce’s mockery and also his manipulation. He refuses to tell Bucky who he’s actually fighting against, and speaks in vague terms about what Bucky’s mission was for. We never see any hint that Bucky knew or understood what cause he was fighting for. As soon as Bucky asks who Steve is, Pierce first minimises and then shuts him down swiftly with the wipe. Bucky also doesn’t respond to Pierce’s pontification — we could either interpret that as him being distracted by his memories of Steve, or that the preaching was just performative on Pierce’s part because Bucky had no idea anyway.

[wazafam]

The Winter Soldier (Sebastian Stan) has had quite a complex career in the MCU. Born in 1917, Sergeant James Buchanan "Bucky" Barnes is the childhood friend of Captain America, and both become men out of time, having lived very long lives thanks to their respective enhancements. However, up until 2016, Bucky Barnes' path has been much darker than that of Steve Rogers, and the Winter Soldier's only recently been able to start working towards redemption to make up for the sins of his past.

Barnes hasn't always been in control of his own mind thanks to the efforts of HYDRA, which lead to some fairly dark chapters in his life before he became an Avenger alongside Captain America in Avengers: Infinity War. However, this makes Barnes one of the most compelling and dynamic characters in the MCU as a result. While Captain America got his happy ending at the conclusion of Avengers: Endgame, Bucky Barnes' journey as a hero has seemingly just begun.

Related: Marvel Forgets Bucky Is A Super Soldier (& Needs To Use Him Better)

Thus far, the Winter Soldier has been featured in six films in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, though his exploits off-screen and in between said chapters of Marvel's Infinity Saga are rather interesting as well, such as his time with the Howling Commandos or his sinister missions as HYDRA's brainwashed assassin before his mind was restored. Here's a complete timeline focused on key events of the MCU's Winter Soldier, offering a complete history and explanation of Bucky Barnes' story before it continues with Marvel's Falcon and the Winter Soldier series coming soon to Disney Plus.

March 10th, 1917- Bucky Barnes Is Born Bucky Barnes is born to a family of four children, growing up in Brooklyn, New York.

1930- Bucky Meets Steve Rogers Barnes saves a smaller and weaker Steve Rogers from a group of bullies, and the two become best friends.

December 1941- Bucky Enlists With The Army The United States enter World War II after the attack on Pearl Harbor, and Barnes and Rogers both agree to enlist in the U.S Army. While Bucky is recruited, Rogers is denied (though he continues to make attempts). Barnes then trains with the 107th Infantry Regiment and gains the rank of Sergeant.

June 1943- Bucky Is Deployed To Europe After spending a night with Rogers and a pair of young women at the 1943 Stark Expo, Barnes is deployed along with the 107th to Europe in the beginning of Captain America: The First Avenger.

October 1943- Barnes Is Captured By Hydra Barnes and his unit are captured by the Nazi science division known as HYDRA as POWs, forced to build weapons and ammunition.

November 1943- Bucky Is Rescued By Rogers Steve Rogers leads a breakout of the HYDRA facility, having become enhanced thanks to the Super Soldier Serum. Rogers also rescues Barnes, who had been experimented on by HYDRA scientist Arnim Zola.

1944- Captain America and the Howling Commandos Having officially become Captain America, Rogers forms the Howling Commandos, and Barnes serves as the elite unit's sniper. Working with Rogers, the Howling Commandos took down several of HYDRA's installations and facilities across Europe, including the Red Skull's plan to detonate a Norse Runestone along with several other machines of war Zola had created using the power of the Tesseract.

January 1945- Bucky Is Presumedly KIA During a mission to hijack a HYDRA train and capture Dr. Zola, Bucky is believed to have been killed in action, having fallen from the train and presumedly to his death.

1945- Barnes Is Found Alive Thanks to Zola's experiments, Bucky survived his fall and was found by HYDRA, though he lost his left arm. He was also subsequently turned over to HYDRA's Siberian facility and held prisoner.

1945- Barnes Becomes the First Winter Soldier Zola was later freed and recruited by SHIELD and the SSR under Operation Paperclip. As result, Zola continued his experiments on Bucky Barnes while secretly rebuilding HYDRA as well. Zola gave Barnes a new cybernetic arm, while also using mental reprogramming techniques and brainwashing to remake him into a weapon they could control: The Winter Soldier. Keeping him cryogenically frozen for decades, HYDRA would thaw Barnes out when needed to eliminate desired targets.

Related: Marvel Reveals How Hydra Turned Bucky Barnes Into The Winter Soldier

November 22nd, 1963- Winter Soldier Assassinates JFK HYDRA sends the Winter Soldier to carry out nearly two dozen assassinations over a 50 year span, and the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy in 1963 was one of the most notable.

December 16th, 1991- Winter Soldier Kills Tony Stark's Parents The other prominent targets the Winter Soldier killed were Howard and Maria Stark. Howard was transporting prototypes for a new Super Soldier serum which was desired by Hydra to create more Winter Soldiers. The brainwashed Barnes brutally killed the couple, while making it look like it was a car accident. Additionally, the creation of more Winter Soldiers was put on ice after the Soviet Union dissolved the same year.

2009- Winter Soldier Shoots The Black Widow While on an escort detail in Iran, Agent Natasha Romanov and a nuclear engineer under her protection were attacked by the Winter Soldier. While they survived their vehicle going over a cliff, Natasha was shot by the Winter Soldier through her stomach and the bullet went into the engineer, killing him.

2014- Winter Soldier's Assassination Attempt Against Nick Fury In the beginning of Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Barnes is activated by HYDRA's Alexander Pierce to take out SHIELD Director Nick Fury. While Barnes was unsuccessful, this signified the beginning of HYDRA's emergence from the shadows to take over SHIELD in earnest.

2014- Winter Soldier Faces Captain America Steve Rogers becomes aware of the Winter Soldier's existence after the attempted murder of Fury, and the pair eventually cross paths and trade blows in Washington D.C. During their fight, Rogers managed to take off the Winter Soldier's mask, revealing his true identity as Rogers' childhood friend. While this was a shock for Captain America, it likewise brought up long-buried memories Barnes had forgotten, leading to Pierce ordering Barnes' mind to be wiped again.

2014- Battle of the Triskelion and Barnes Remembers When Captain America and his allies attempted to prevent HYDRA from using SHIELD's helicarriers and enacting Project Insight, the Winter Soldier was sent to stop them and kill Rogers. After a brutal brawl Captain America gets through to Barnes, who begins to remember who he was before HYDRA. However, the destruction of the helicarrier sent Rogers falling into the river below.

2014- Winter Soldier Saves Rogers And Goes Into Hiding After the battle, Barnes saves Rogers before going off on his own. While he did go back to the HYDRA site at the Ideal Federal Savings Bank where he had been routinely brainwashed, he decides not to kill the scientists, no longer wanting to be a part of any more bloodshed. He then visits the Captain America exhibit at the Smithsonian, confirming the validity of his returning memories.

2016- Winter Soldier Is Framed For A Bombing In Vienna despite his seclusion in Romania at the beginning of Captain America: Civil War, Barnes is framed for a bombing in Vienna during the signing of the Sokovia Accords, which killed several including King T'Chaka of Wakanda, the father of the Black Panther. In truth, it's all part of a larger plot by Helmut Zemo to get revenge on the Avengers.

2016- Captain America Harbors Winter Soldier As A Fugitive Despite the worldwide manhunt for the Winter Soldier, Captain America finds Barnes first, and Bucky confirms that he remembers who he is and his relationship to Rogers. As such, Captain America determines to protect Barnes and clear his name. However, the creation of the Sokovia Accords makes this difficult, as the Avengers' actions must now be sanctioned by the United Nations.

2016- Zemo Takes Advantage Of The Winter Soldier Captain America, Falcon, and Barnes are all captured and taken to the Joint Counter Terrorist Centre Building in Berlin, which was when psychiatrist Theo Broussard questions Barnes to determine his mental state. However, Broussard is replaced by Zemo. Creating a blackout, Zemo uses the secret HYDRA trigger words to control the Winter Soldier, learning not only about Barnes' mission in 1991, but also the location of the HYDRA site in Siberia. He then orders the Winter Soldier to kill anyone that gets in his way and to escape in a helicopter, which would have made him look even more guilty for the Vienna bombing.

Related: Why Falcon & The Winter Soldier Is Captain America: Civil War 2

2016- The Civil War After some conflict with Tony Stark, Sharon Carter, and Natasha Romanov, Rogers, and Sam Wilson managed to leave the facility with Barnes, whose programming eventually wore off. Barnes revealed Zemo's apparent plan, involving the activation of the other Winter Soldiers that HYDRA had created. As a result, Captain America calls Clint Barton for help, who picks up Wanda Maximoff and Ant-Man to help take down the assassins. However, they're all stopped at the airport by Iron Man and a collection of like-minded heroes who've chosen to support the Sokovia Accords. After a massive brawl, Rogers and Barnes are the only two to make it out, charting a course for Siberia.

2016- Tony Stark Learns Winter Soldier Killed His Parents Once Rogers' allies are apprehended and taken to the prison known as the Raft, Iron Man suspects Barnes' innocence, and he follows Rogers and Barnes to Siberia (with the Black Panther secretly following Iron Man). Once he arrives, Stark offers to help Rogers and Barnes, and the three of them venture into the facility to discover that Zemo has killed the other assassins. His real goal was to break the Avengers apart as revenge for the loss of his family in Sokovia during Ultron's attack. Showing Stark footage of Barnes' murdering his parents, Tony becomes enraged, determined to kill the Winter Soldier. He likewise has no love for Rogers, as it was revealed that Rogers has known about the Starks since the events of Winter Soldier, but had chosen not to tell him. In the end, Rogers and Barnes incapacitate Stark, but not after Barnes loses his metal arm in the resulting battle.

2016- Winter Soldier Granted Asylum In Wakanda Because Black Panther witnessed the entire event and learned of Zemo's true plot, he offers asylum to Barnes, promising to keep him safe and to also use his nation's resources and science to try and remove all of the programming HYDRA left in the Winter Soldier's head.

2018- Winter Soldier's Mind Is Restored By Shuri at the end of Black Panther, it's revealed that the Black Panther's sister and head scientist Shuri has managed to rehabilitate Bucky, and he's allowed to freely move about Wakanda, living in a nearby village and being referred to as "The White Wolf".

2018- The Winter Soldier Joins The Battle of Wakanda When Earth is under attack by the forces of Thanos in Avengers: Infinity War, the Avengers choose to make their last stand in Wakanda, and the Black Panther calls Barnes to join the fight, offering a new vibranium arm to replace the one Iron Man destroyed.

Related: Falcon and Winter Soldier Must Reveal Captain America’s Endgame Mystery

2018- The Winter Soldier Becomes A Victim of Thanos' Decimation Due to Thanos' victory in gaining all of the Infinity Stones, he snaps his fingers and half of all life in the universe is erased. Bucky Barnes was one of the casualties.

2023- Winter Soldier Returns In Avengers: Endgame Bucky Barnes returns with everyone else who vanished when the surviving Avengers gain the Infinity Stones using time travel. He subsequently joins the heroes in the final fight for Earth against Thanos' army until Iron Man defeats them all using the Infinity Stones.

2023- Winter Soldier Witnesses Falcon Becoming New Captain America In the aftermath of the battle, Barnes joins Sam Wilson as they see Captain America off to return the Infinity Stones throughout time. However, it's revealed that Rogers himself stayed in the past to be with his love Peggy Carter. Now an old man, Barnes watches from a distance as Rogers gives his shield to Falcon, effectively passing on the torch and mantle of Captain America to Sam Wilson.

Now, the Winter Soldier is ready to partner with the Falcon in the new series coming to Disney Plus, which will see the duo not only dealing with the return of Zemo, but also with Wilson's apparent reluctance to wield the shield as the next Captain America. In any case, it looks as though Bucky Barnes will be getting the opportunity to continue his journey as a hero in the MCU with the upcoming release of Falcon and the Winter Soldier on Disney Plus.

More: Falcon & Winter Soldier Recap: Sam & Bucky's MCU Story So Far (All Movies)

The Winter Soldier Complete MCU Timeline: Bucky's Story Explained from https://ift.tt/3vlKKBt