#Idk I do not rlly like outsiders ships but it’s very rare for me to like any ships so maybe im biased

[macking-cheesie]

me when people choose not to ship outsiders characters because it’s a story about the intricacies of friendship and brotherly love when you are pushed to extremes and changing it to romantic changes the connotation of the story 😁😁😁😁👍👍👍

me when people don’t ship the outsiders because “it’s the 60s.” (Gay people existed in the 60s and way before, believe it or not. Don’t be weird???)☹️☹️☹️👎👎👎

[clericbyers]

(1/2) idk if it’s stupid but i get rlly sad when i think about byler not becoming canon but i don’t wanna get my hopes up. media’s disappointed me so many times w lgbt rep, queerbaiting but not coming to fruition, having the token gay character (ik robin is confirmed but she was just introduced and i’m worried will is gonna get that treatment too where he’s left single or paired up with some random), etc and it hurts to see a pairing w genuine chemistry have a chance but it not be seen through

(2/2) esp w how toxic mileven was this season having them end up together just hurts me for the sake of both of them. in 1-2 i was okay w them ending up together (kinda like how i am w lumax now - i prefer elmax but they’re cute together and it doesn’t bother me) and in s1 i didn’t even ship any of them; i thought mileven was kind of out of left field and thought el maybe just needed some space but now it’s like,, so much worse. at the v least i can’t see them as endgame w a clear conscience :(

I don’t think you should ever think it’s stupid that you feel sad about an lgbt couple not becoming canon ; it’s rare af, and, like you said, media is a constant disappointment when it comes to lgbt rep. representation isn’t just acknowledging we (as in the lgbt community) exist, that is literally. acknowledgement. Representation is doing more, it is turning that acknowledgement into action, into treating lgbt characters (and real life people!) as you would anyone else. representing the community in a way that reflects the real world, which is that: lgbt couples / people are no different than any hetero couple / person outside of who they love. and for some reason in media, that difference (not even how that difference is expressed but the literal. dictionary definition difference.) is seen as something ‘overtly and unnecessarily sexual’ to display and is always sidelined, baited, or turned into a trope. It’s tiring and annoying and needs to stop.

That being said, I understand the frustration with byler especially given they are a pairing with genuine chemistry and love (platonic and/or romantic, but platonic is definitely there without a doubt) for each other. The show built up two seasons worth of care and commitment between Mike and Will, along with the years of commitment and friendship they have before the show even begins. It’s the foundations for a healthy and loving relationship, having that trust and dedication and devotion. Seeing a friendship/relationship like that between two boy get tossed aside for a hetero relationship that is almost the exact opposite in terms of trust at least, is annoying as hell. I too was rooting for Mike and El, albeit not at their current ages and definitely only after El has found her place in the world, which then irritated me a lot more about ST3 (but their whole incompatibility might be purposeful who knows; it depends on what’s in store next season). I didn’t particularly actively ship any of the characters really until a while after ST2, everything was just cute and fun to watch play out but now they are older and growing up and these relationships are way more serious now even if they are still kids. It’s that make or break it stage, you know? But yeah, I also can’t see Mike and El together unless many things change between them in the meantime, mostly on Mike’s end of the deal but El, too, was selfish and lying and being possessive so...they both just need time apart.

Still, I understand you about not wanting to get your hopes up! I try my hardest too not to believe in the reality of it though I do like to think about it anyway because it’s just...it’s perfect. And by perfect I don’t mean they aren’t without flaws, no, ST3 has shown us how jealousy and neglect affected Mike and Will’s relationship, but the way they dealt with it, the way Mike took responsibility for his actions and ran after Will and searched for him at Castle Byers, the fact that he knew to go to Castle Byers after Will’s house is so telling about how much he cares about Will and knows him, too. It’s perfect in the way that it feels like it’s supposed to happen, like you know there’s genuine affection here and yes, there are arguments and strifes, but they still come back together in the end. Three months later after that damaging argument, Will and Mike are flirting and smiling, and Mike is blushing--there’s something happening. Three months later after the break up, El and Mike are awkward and Mike’s shutting himself down and lying still. Intended or not, there’s a parallel here that shouldn’t be ignored and it points a very specific light on byler, one tinted with romantic inclinations. Besides, it’s hard not to get attached when their friendship/love is one of the most real things in the show.

[hallelujuh]

hello yes i just finished lord of the flies (and then watched the 1963 movie immediately afterwards) & i rlly luv piggy so im gonna yell abt Just Piggy Things™ even if no one cares

piggy’s the first character we’re introduced to, after ralph ofc, so that means we’re supposed to get attached, and boy did i get attached..

ass-mar

the fact that he’s been called mean nicknames so long that his real name doesnt matter to him?? he doesnt care what hes called?? poor thing wtf??? hes like eleven hes too little for this

the Flashing Anime Glasses. especially the one w the fire when he starts laughing maniacally. same.

im talking about: “then he laughed so strangely that they were hushed, looking at the flash of his spectacles in astonishment.”

also: “’i got the conch,’ said piggy, in a hurt voice. ‘i got a right to speak.’” let him speak hes the only damn reasonable one. also stop hurting him hes been hurt enough goddamnit 

k but how much he loves ralph? and ralph is annoyed by him??? but then later he confides in him & cries over him & their friendship is my fav in the book so. they bond it just takes a while. but piggy was always good to ralph awe

“i was with him when he found the conch. i was with him before anyone else was.” he finally made a friend dont u take him from him ;-;

k speaking of the conch, in the first movie, his laugh when ralph’s blowing the horn for the first time??? aw??? a rare moment of joy in that sad ass movie?? 

‘63!film piggy is the sweetest & cutest i lob him. ‘90!film piggy was annoying as shit tho i refuse to talk about him.

in the ‘63!film when he puts his hands on his hips when jack says “shut up fatty” and then hides behind the tree when they all laugh at him.

god in the book it’s easy to forget theyre actual babies but with the movie u cant possibly forget and theyre so cute but defenseless it’s so sad

i kno these actors r like 70 or dead now but i wanna go back in time & give them a hug. especially piggy cuz hes a pouty chubby bub gOD IM SO SAD

one last note on the film before i get back to the book: the movie rlly encompassed how awkward i imagined piggy to be & i luv that. also his story time abt camberly was adorable + educational (for me, anyway)

how hurt he is when ralph tells the other boys his name, poor thing ugh :(

“’let him have the conch!’ shouted piggy. ‘let him have it!’” yes stand up for poor lil mulberry child

“piggy knelt by him, one hand on the great shell, listening and interpreting to the assembly.” hes so fuckin sweet??? hes like the mom of the island hes so nice to the littluns i luv him

and when he gets upset over the mulberry boy probably bein killed in the fire :’( hes the most sensible and the most empathetic of all the other boys. what a cinnamon roll. unproblematic fav. true neutral. 10/10. the best boy.

my second favorite line in the whole book: “then, with the martyred expression of a parent who has to keep up with the senseless ebullience of the children, he picked up the conch, turned toward the forest, and began to pick his way over the tumbled scar.” tired mama piggy lmao

he wants to make a sundial?? hes so smart aw

piggy thinking ralph’s patronizing smile was a friendly one :( :( he just wants a friendddd hes so naive & sweet im sadddd

i think it’s implied most of the other boys (particularly the choir boys & ralph) are from a nicer, more upper class part of england, &, despite his intelligence, piggy’s more lower class, judging by his cockney-esque accent (his use of ‘them’ instead of ‘those’, etc.) and also “piggy was an outsider, not only by accent, which did not matter…” idk why this is cute i dunno

“piggy arrived, out of breath and whimpering like a littlun.” me in pe. but also poor thing ;-;

“piggy sniveled and simon shushed him as though he had spoken too loudly in church.” i interpreted shushed as, like, consoled, more than, like, ‘quit crying, ya baby’, which was more what he was doing, but still…first of many cute piggy & simon interactions. i’d ship them but theyre like twelve so nah. but they cute as buddies

“this was too bitter for piggy, who forgot his timidity in the agony of his loss. he began to cry out, shrilly: ‘you and your blood, jack merridew! you and your hunting! we might have gone home-’” this hurts because if jack hadn’t gone hunting, they may have been rescued before simon or piggy died :( :( :( horrible vague foreshadowing

simon getting piggy’s glasses for him when jack throws em ;-;

simon giving his piece of meat (not a euphemism, goddamnit) to piggy.. god simons so sweet hes my second fav

“only, decided ralph as he faced the chief’s seat, i can’t think. not like piggy…he could go step by step inside that fat head of his, only piggy was no chief. but piggy, for all his ludicrous body, had brains.” why does ralph resent piggy sm. it’s like it psychically hurts him to compliment him, even just in his own head. jeez. just cuz someones fat doesnt mean they cant be smart?? the 50s were weird

“piggy came and stood outside the triangle. this indicated that he wished to listen, but would not speak; and piggy intended it as a gesture of disapproval.” aka ‘i’m mad at everyone so im gonna stand two feet away & glare at you all’ aw haha

when he tiptoes onto the triangle cuz hes done w his protesting ahaha aw

“piggy held out his hands for the conch but ralph shook his head.” idk i thought the mental image was cute. “gimme pls” “nuh uh”

what he says about the beast & life being scientific…me & piggy would be buds if he was real lmao

“ralph nodded to piggy. ‘go on. ask him.’ piggy knelt, holding the conch. ‘now then. what’s your name?’ the small boy twisted away into his tent. piggy turned helplessly to ralph..” honestly piggy & ralph are the mom & dad of the colony (jack being the asshole uncle) it’s so cute

“’that’s a clever beast,’ said piggy, jeering, ‘if it can hide on this island.’” sarcastic piggy is sarcastic

more sarcastic piggy earlier in the book: “you got your small fire all right” i lob him

indignant & shrill piggy… and his quote: “’what are we? humans? or animals? or savages?’” honestly lowkey want that tattooed

i fuckin hate jalph but admittedly jack’s jealous lil “’that’s right–favor piggy as you always do.’” is salty & gay lmao

the whole three blind mice convo…i luv

particular highlight in that scene: “’i’m scared of him,’ said piggy, ‘and that’s why i know him. if you’re scared of someone you hate him but you can’t stop thinking about him. you kid yourself he’s all right really, an’ then when you see him again; it’s like asthma an’ you can’t breathe. i tell you what. he hates you too, ralph—’” POOR BABYYY 

also “’i know about people. i know about me. and him. he can’t hurt you: but if you stand out of the way he’d hurt the next thing. and that’s me.” IN THE END ROGER’S THE ONE WHO HURTS HIM UGH :(

“’keep piggy out of danger.’” YOU ASSHOLES LET HIM DIE

piggy holding his breath until his asthma acts up & then the boys just leave him??? what dicks

“jack cleared his throat and spoke in a queer, tight voice. ‘we mustn’t let anything happen to piggy, must we?’” AND THEN YOU LET HIM D I E U SALTY BITCH QUIT IT

“piggy put on his one glass and looked at ralph. ‘now you done it. you been rude about his hunters.’ ‘oh shut up!’” why dont more ppl ship them?? compared to jalph theres nothing??? theyre like a married couple it’s precious. like i said - mom & dad of the island.

piggy getting braver & being more of a leader once jack leaves!!! im proud of him!!

“he [simon] sought for help and sympathy and chose piggy” k the two most humane & sympathetic kids on the island, and the two doomed ones, gravitate towards each other & look out for each other & it so sadd

piggy being “so full of pride in his contribution to the good of society” he didnt deserve his fate he was so good im so sad

samneric & piggy making a little mini feast for them?? thats so cute??? 

also “piggy broke into noisy laughter and took more fruit. ‘he might be.’ he gulped his mouthful. ‘he’s cracked’.” piggy u get teased for bein different why would u tease simon (behind his back too) for bein diffrent u hypocrite. noisy laughter tho aw

piggy & ralph laying by the fire & talking…ralph didnt deserve piggy honestly he wasnt even grateful until the very end for such a good friend in such a horrible situation??? ugh

“when he understood how far ralph had gone toward accepting him he flushed pinkly with pride” see? good friendship. piggy just wanted a friend & to be considered valuable. and ralph finally started appreciating him

“piggy took off his glasses, stepped primly into the water, and then put them on again.” prim: stiffly formal and respectable; feeling or showing disapproval of anything regarded as improper. idk why this is funny to me

when he gets annoyed and starts slapping the water & yelling. temper tatrum lmao. dont blame him

“piggy stirred the sand under water and did not look at ralph. ‘p’raps we ought to go too.’ ralph looked at him quickly and piggy blushed. ‘i mean–to make sure nothing happens.’ ralph squirted water again.” they’re so fuckINGN CUTE

“piggy touched ralph’s wrist. ‘come away. there’s going to be trouble. and we’ve had our meat.’“ SO MUCH OF THIS STORY WOULDVE BEEN AVOIDED IF THE OTHER BOYS ACTUALLY LISTENED TO PIGGY

“ralph sat down in the grass facing the chief’s seat and the conch. piggy knelt at his left, and for a long minute there was silence.” i luv their dynamic sm. ruler & adviser. no questions asked. ultimate loyalty. so good.

piggy trying to be all rational about simon while ralph freaks out…what a scene. also i luv how awkward their convo w samneric immediately after is

piggy wants to be rescued most and hes the one whos killed!!!! bullshit!!!! justice for piggy!!!

when ralph says piggy should write a letter to his auntie & he takes it serious & ralph laughs & piggy doesnt get it. awe.

the scene where they take his glasses ;-; u made my boi piggy hav an ass-mar attack u monsters,

PIGGY GETTIN ALL BADASS & DETERMINED & TALKING ABOUT WHAT HES GONNA TELL JACK 

“he held out the conch to piggy who flushed, this time with pride” and then “piggy sought in his mind for words to convey his passionate willingness to carry the conch against all odds.” the conch is the only constant on the island, the only dependable thing he has besides ralph, so hes so invested in it, hes pretty much deemed himself the caretaker of the conch, and it dies with him…

the scene where piggy reassures ralph & it says “the twins were examining ralph curiously, as though they were seeing him for the first time” is probably my fav scene in the entire book…it just really shows, in a couple of lines, the characters that ralph & piggy are, and what their relationship is like, and why they’re a partnership throughout the whole book. fantastic.

“’am i safe?’ quavered piggy. ‘i feel awful–’” fuckin foreshadowing, i hate it. imagine being practically blind on a cliff and then, minutes later, falling to your death. god it’s terrible.

piggy crying for ralph not to leave him actually hurts like psychically in my chest. him and simon were babies??? i know it’s fiction but kids are the sweetest things, not even fictional kids deserve to be killed so mercilessly??? im so fuckin sad

his last words…powerful and iconic.

i dont wanna talk about his death. im very sad

k ik it’s terrible but when he died his skull cracked open & his brain more or less fell out (”and stuff came out”, “with his empty head”), and thats p macabre but it’s also symbolic and genius bc when roger killed him he also took away the only thing he had going for him, the only thing that gave him superiority over the others - his intelligence. his brain. 

of course, have to end on: “ralph wept for the end of innocence, the darkness of man’s heart, and the fall through the air of the true, wise friend called piggy.” cue me shutting the book, hugging it to my chest, and sobbing