#I'm so sorry anon if you wanted me to discuss Crocodile more in this post because like. There isn't that much to discuss

[moongothic]

Hey anon, I'm so sorry but your ask is obscenely long so I'm cutting it down to bare essentials

Most of the Original Ask was just a copypaste of this forum post, quickly highlighting this comment too

LOOK WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT MORIA, YO! "Defeated by Gellard and returns in the Final Scenario with an even more grotesque appearance than when you first met him."

But yes, I am aware, I have read that exact same thread before (when I first learned about the Romancing SaGa inspo on r/OnePiece and wanted to learn more), and I did briefly discuss the Seven Heroes when speculating about Cross Guild and wherever the fuck that plotline is going

And I'm now going to add onto that original post, because boy howdy do I have some additional thoughts to get out of my brain

Okay so yes, Doflamingo would be the OG Iteration of Bokuohn, the puppeteer who manipulates people. But in the context of Cross Guild... That's Buggy. "Bokuohn is in control of the majority of the Seven Heroes' forces. Situated in the Steppes region, he owns a large landship, complete with an innumerable amount of slaves." That's literally just Buggy. Like he's not a master of psychological manipulation nor can he forcefully manipulate anybody like literal puppets either (the way Mingo could), but. Like scratch out he RoSa2 terms, replace them with the relevant OP terms and it's a perfect description of Buggy.

Bringing that up because I'm still interested in Cross Guild becoming Shichibukai 2.0 But Without The Government This Time, but if we wanted to have exactly seven former Shichibukai to make up Cross Guild and make sure we had like ones who could actually fill out the roles of the Seven Heroes from RoSa2... Yeah there's going to have to be some replacements Not just because otherwise Doflamingo would need to be broken out of Impel Down somehow (which I doubt will happen, also I don't think Crocodile would want him working for him anyways), but also. Jinbei's with the Strawhats. And I don't think he's ditching Luffy any time soon for Crocodile of all people, not when he finally fucking joined the Strawhats for realsies.

So Doflamingo could be replaced with Buggy, cool, sure. What about Jinbei then? Who will take up the role of RoSa2's Subier?

So a while back I wrote this speculation post about if the Burn Scar Man (who has the final Road Poneglyph) could be a Fishman.(PERHAPS specifically Davy Jones?) Bringing that up because during Kuma's flashback we did learn that Kuma got the Shichibukai Slot after Ace defeated one of the seven at the time. And we specifically got to see Ace talk to Jinbei about it, Ace being surprised Jinbei of all people was glad the Shichibukai slot was being filled again. Now obviously, our Firefist Ace defeating a Shichibukai makes for one great candidate on who the Burn Scar Man could be, as Ace could very easily leave someone with some severe burn scars. This is platantly obvious lmao. But it's the conversation with Jinbei that actually interests me, because like. Sure, Jinbei being a fellow Shichibukai, it might be odd for Ace to hear Jinbei be glad that one of his fellow Warlords is being replaced. But that comment could make twice as much sense if that Warlord had ALSO been a fellow Fishman and/or a Merman (and perhaps someone Jinbei might've known better?). Now indeed. We are going to meet the Burn Scar Man eventually, 100%, it's mandatory for the plot to move forwards. Which means we're going to find out who that guy is, and if the Road Poneglyph gets stolen from him, he might have to find something else to do with his life since there won't be any point in guarding it anymore. And hey. If Mr Burns does turn out to be a fellow former Shichibukai who also happens to be a Fishman/Merman and a master of Fishman Karate... Oh hey, what's this? "Subier - A half octopus merman who controls the flow of the ocean to use as a weapon." Like. IDK I think we could have another Cross Guild member on our hands here.

(Honestly, currently the only problem we have is Dantarg, whose role currently being held by Kuma. Like the only other known Shichibukai we have who could be "available" is Law but he hasn't really done any "bodymods to become stronger" and thus doesn't fit the description. Hell, that description fits Kid more than anything but he was never a Shichibukai either. Guess we gotta keep on hoping Kuma somehow survives and just doesn't return to the Revolutionary Army for some reason)

Hilariously the most interesting thing you pointed out was that comment in the forum thread about Moria, 'cause I hadn't even realized this before but

So we know Blackbeard had captured Moria and held him hostage for... weeks, months? Until he was freed by Coby as per Perona's plea during the raid on Fullalead. Interestingly though, although theoretically we know Moria and Perona should have escaped the island by now, we have not seen either, now have we? Which is kind of suspicious now that I think about it. Because like. It'd make perfect sense if Blackbeard and co had been torturing Moria during his time in captivity, right. Have they been feeding my beloved goth onion well? Realistically, probably not?

Like. Thinking about it. We know Moria got chumby after the trauma of losing his crew and all, so what are the odds he might have lost that weight now during his captivity??? What if he looks more like his younger self again, the one see clash with Kaidou??? Or, the more horrifying option. I mean zombies aren't like an inherent part of Moria's DF abilities, just the Shadow Manipulation. But for all we know Moria could have lost a limb or two, and depending on where the fuck Hogback is (dude is supposed to be a competent doctor, he should be able to stitch Moria back up)... I mean theoretically the next time we see Moria he could look like one of his zombies. Or worse.

[oumakokichi]

Do you think that Kokichi had any remorse for Gonta during trial 4 or did he actually not care? I've seen a lot of people saying different opinions from both sides of the argument. But I'm really confused because there was a moment where after Gonta was executed, correct me if I'm wrong but Shuichi asked Kokichi if he could reveal the secret of the outside world (?) But Kokichi replied with something like “I don't want to....” and seemed generally upset? But then a few moments later he snapped out if it and began acting like he had no sympathy whatsoever. I just really wanna know how Kokichi actually, truly felt about Gonta and if he regretted manipulating him. Sorry if you've already been asked this and have already given an answer, thank you!

Hi anon—I actually wrote a pretty big master-post on chapter 4 not too long ago which I think more or less sums up my thoughts on Ouma’s behavior in the post-trial! You can find it here if you want (it’s pretty long and I tried to answer a whole bunch of questions about Ouma in chapter 4 specifically, since it’s the chapter I get asked about the most).

More specifically though, I’m afraid that there is no easy, definitive answer to that question. I can only share my personal opinions about how I believe Ouma felt in that scene. And personally? I do think he was genuinely upset and distraught about Gonta’s death, that he even momentarily considered giving up all his plans and being executed alongside him, and that he cared about Gonta and deeply regretted using him as a sacrificial pawn in his plans.

I’ll discuss what I mean in more detail, but it’ll probably get pretty long, so I’ll put the rest of this post under a cut as always!

The thing is, though, I’ve shared my personal thoughts about the chapter 4 post trial many times, including my reasoning and all of the textual evidence that shows how much Ouma cared about the rest of his classmates. But ultimately, there will probably always be some people who disagree, because their reading of the text will always be a little bit different. Unless we ever have an interview from Kodaka in the future where he directly says, “this is what Ouma was thinking and feeling at this exact moment,” there really won’t ever be a way to know what was going through his head with 100% certainty (and I do feel like leaving it open-ended is something of Kodaka’s intention, anyway, especially since Ouma is supposed to be a very polarizing character).

That being said, I do think it’s worth analyzing the text and drawing your own conclusions, because ndrv3 is a game that changes a lot depending on how you interpret it, and Ouma’s character is included in that. It’s really easy on a first playthrough to get wrapped up in what Ouma says or does without really looking at why he says it, or at his underlying motivations. Going back through the game on a replay though, I do personally think it’s possible to guess at what he might have been feeling during those super conflicting scenes in chapter 4.

In my opinion, I think Ouma did truly care about Gonta as a friend, and that his guilt and remorse over what he did was genuine. Not only did Ouma and DICE have a very strict taboo against killing (mentioned directly in his motive video in Japanese, though the part about it being an actual rule was stripped from the localization), but we don’t see Ouma’s façade crack like this very often. Most of the time when he does his trademark “crocodile tears,” it’s with his very loud, exaggerated crying sprite, and he bounces right back to acting normally within a moment or two.

There are a few exceptions to this, of course—he uses the “crocodile tears” sprite to cry at Kaede, Amami, and Toujou’s deaths, but it’s still very likely he was shaken up by seeing them dead). Nonetheless, we don’t see his much more subdued crying sprites more than a handful of times, particularly in the chapter 4 post-trial just before Gonta’s execution, as well as in Momota’s flashback in chapter 5 when he talks about how Ouma actually hated the killing game the whole time.

I’m aware that some people simply brush these moments aside and assume that Ouma is lying though all of them, but I personally just can’t agree with that interpretation. Assuming that Ouma is lying whenever he shows remorse or guilt or hatred for the killing game means assuming that he’s telling the truth in pretty much every other scene—which doesn’t make much sense, given that his entire character is centered around the concept of lying, as well as moral ambiguity and subverting expectations. Assuming that Ouma actually means what he’s saying 100% of the time unless it just happens to involve showing any kind of guilt or remorse turns him into a very boring, predictable, uninspired character (none of which are words I would use to describe him personally).

Ignoring those moments where Ouma shows genuine attachment to his classmates and distaste for the killing game also means ignoring several key pieces of evidence and clues about him that we are directly provided in the game, including his motive video and Momota’s flashback in chapter 5. Personally, I don’t feel like there’s any reason to include these scenes at all unless it’s to help shed light on Ouma’s motivations and provide players with a clear reason to try and go back through the game again to look at Ouma’s actions through a new perspective.

I also feel that Ouma genuinely cared about Gonta because to put it simply, there was no incentive for him to lie in that scene. He got absolutely nothing out of it—and considering he turns around and starts playing the villain on purpose all of 5 minutes after Gonta’s death, he definitely wasn’t trying to earn sympathy points or trick the rest of his classmates into trusting him. In fact, he could’ve easily tried to make himself look more sympathetic by putting all of the blame on Miu for trying to kill him, or even on Gonta. But instead he fully admits to coming up with the plan to kill Miu and spends the entire post-trial trying to convince everyone not to hate or blame Gonta.

If he was truly as sadistic and horrible as he pretended to be, I think he would’ve pulled a 180 and started throwing names and insults around while Gonta was still alive to hear it, not after he was already dead. If he didn’t care at all about Gonta’s feelings, he had no reason to try and take all the blame on himself while insisting that none of what happened was actually Gonta’s fault. If anything, revealing himself to be this horrible, evil villain who enjoys seeing other people suffer or die would’ve really been adding insult to injury, and probably would’ve crushed Gonta completely, even before his execution started.

But… Ouma doesn’t do any of this. Despite having every opportunity to either portray himself as more of a victim and fling all the blame on Miu and Gonta, or else to completely embrace being a villain who loved seeing people suffer, he doesn’t do either of these things. The way I personally see it, Ouma waits until Gonta is already dead, and when the rest of his classmates begin pushing him for answers about the outside world and demanding to know what Gonta saw, that’s when he finally snaps and resigns himself to acting like a villain in order to make everyone hated.

You could argue that trying to make everyone hate him had a twofold effect: it helped set the stage for him to pretend to be the ringleader in the next chapter, which he clearly wanted, but it also was a way of taking things out on himself and shows just a small glimpse of how much he hated having to dirty his hands in chapter 4. After all, Ouma even says it himself: that the “role of a villain is perfect for him,” because he’s already made everyone hate him. We see Ouma occasionally tease or antagonize the rest of his classmates plenty of times throughout the game, but it’s true that he doesn’t really step into that “villain” role until the end of chapter 4, once he’s crossed a line that he can never come back from by manipulating both Miu and Gonta to their deaths.

None of this is to say that what Ouma did to Gonta is okay, by any means. I think he definitely did care about Gonta and even thought of him as one of the few trustworthy people in the killing game, even someone close to a friend, but that doesn’t mean that manipulating him and using him like a chess piece was okay in the end. I just also think it’s important to realize that there were plenty of extenuating circumstances that led Ouma to act the way he did—including the fact tha he knew Miu was going to kill him, that he already suspected she had measures to prevent him from fighting back or killing her himself in the VR world, and the fact that he did not want to die or get everyone else killed in the trial.

It’s possible for people to care about others without necessarily treating them the best or doing the right thing. A huge part of Danganronpa, something that’s been evident from the very first game, is that sometimes characters can and do hurt each other, even when they care about each other or wouldn’t be a threat otherwise.

It’s the existence of the killing game itself that causes so many characters to go to extremes that they normally wouldn’t, whether it’s Maizono trying to frame Naegi in dr1 despite caring about him a lot, Kaede deciding to try and commit murder under everyone’s noses despite trying to unite the group and wanting everyone to trust her, or Ouma using Gonta as a pawn to kill Miu in his place because he didn’t want to die.

At the end of the day, people are still probably going to have very polarizing opinions about Ouma and the things he did in chapter 4, and that’s honestly okay. In my own opinion, Ouma definitely isn’t a completely flawless, innocent baby who “did nothing wrong”—he absolutely is manipulative, cold, and calculating when he wants to be, and it’s a fact that he got two people killed, even if he didn’t want things to reach that point. But I also personally don’t think it’s fair to write him off as the exact kind of “evil villain” he pretends to be; not only is it a shortsighted interpretation of his larger motivations, but it also completely ignores any replay value and completely shoots down the appeal of trying to interpret Ouma’s thoughts and actions because “he was lying about feeling bad anyway, what’s the point in analyzing him.���

Tl;dr: I do think Ouma cares about Gonta, that he probably even thought of him as the closest thing he had to a friend in the killing game, and that what he did to Gonta in the end wasn’t okay. I think he really did respect Gonta for being such a sweet and kind person, but that he also knew Gonta was extremely naïve and that he would be one of the easiest people in their group to manipulate, hence why he decided to rely on him instead of anyone else. Their friendship is an important part of both of their character arcs, but it’s definitely not what I would call “on equal footing.”

I understand why Ouma’s actions might make some people really resent him, but I also believe that kneejerk reaction of anger and dismissal is exactly the point: Ouma does feel terrible about the things he did, but he doesn’t want anyone’s sympathy or forgiveness, not even the player’s. This, in my opinion, is why he starts embracing the villain role so completely from this point on, and why he’s never quite able to make the same sort of cold, calculating sacrifices in chapter 5 that he did in chapter 4.

I hope this helps answer your question, anon, along with the other chapter 4 post I wrote! Thank you for all your support!

[whimsicallyenchantedrose]

1:3 sorry I'm about to ramble, but you're so chill, so I'm hoping you can give me tips on how to deal with a problem? I want the next 2 weeks to be fun, but I'm having a very hard time seeing people [only a couple, thankfully] who consider themselves Colin fans taking Colin's words and warping them to suit these new anti views they have, while purposefully ignoring, I guess, all of the excitement and affection Colin has expressed over original recipe Hook and CS. So many great words about them.

2 And I just don't see how they can care for Colin, but try and weaponize him like this. Against his fans who don't share their views, against a character he has spoken at length about loving to play, and against an onscreen pair he's enjoyed being part of. How anyone sees his actions and hears his words at things like SDCC and the official con and thinks he doesn't love OG Hook and CS is confusing, much less that they're going to convince Colin fans that that's the truth.

3 It just shows, to me, deplorable disrespect for Colin, all he's done and expressed over the years, to imply he dislikes og Killian or CS. I think he'd be disappointed in that, and I don't think he'd hesitate to tell them they are wrong. I think he'd be bummed out that people are not just mislabeling og Hook, but trashing all his character is and his relationships, 5 years of journey, to praise KR and s7 Captain Crocodile. Like it's a competition? Ok I got carried away sorry it'll be 4 now

4 Sorry. So my point. Seeing that junk, especially today as the twisting of Colin's words and feelings by "fans" is particularly bad, is making it harder and harder for me to engage with fandom. Since I've been enjoying most of this season and there's only 2 episodes left, I don't want to leave now. I want to enjoy these last 2 weeks of the show, but it's hard with this unpleasantness on my mind. So how do you deal with it? I'm guessing you've seen it. How do you not let it get to you? Please?

Goodness, Anon. My advice is easy to say but harder to do:  Don’t let other fans destroy your enjoyment of what you love.  As I mentioned in a post earlier today, we all have different opinions about this show and these characters, and that’s 100% fine.  The key to staying in a fandom happy place, is to cultivate your dash to include things you want to see and people you want to interact with.  People who post things that upset you or that you don’t want to see--unfollow/mute/block.  In real life, it’s important to consider all points of view and all the facts before making decisions.  Fandom?  Not so much.  This is something we all do for entertainment and for fun.  When something stops being fun, there’s no problem with cutting ties with it.

As you said, OUAT only has 2 episodes left, and they look to be really good episode that really blend together the previous seasons and the current season.  To me, that’s really exciting and I can’t wait!  It sounds like you’re excited about it too, and want to stay excited about it.  I suggest looking for blogs that feel the same way.  I usually exhibit almost Mary Margaret levels of optimism, so you’re probably safe with my blog.  Most of the people I interact with the most are also excited about what’s to come.  Focus your attention on the blogs that make you happy.  Blogs that don’t?  You mentioned 2 or 3 that really bother you.  Mute them for the next couple of weeks.  Nothing wrong with that.

Now, to your specific point about Colin and og Hook vs. Wish Hook, I think I know some of the posts you’re talking about, and I don’t get the impression the bloggers suddenly dislike og Hook or CS, they only find Wish Hook’s storyline in season 7 to be more compelling and/or a better resolution of the conflicts he’s had since the beginning.  I don’t completely agree, but they make some good points as well.

But rather than discuss someone else’s opinions on the subject in detail, let me give you mine:  I am both.  I love og Hook and I love Wish Hook.  I love Captain Swan and I love Knightrook.  I think season 7 shows us an alternate path Hook could have taken, and it gives him an alternate route to redemption.  Both are beautiful and impactful in their own ways.  I think both journeys resolve some of Hook’s conflicts and don’t really touch on others.  But that is why I love the entirety of OUAT as a Killian Jones fan--by getting to see og Hook AND Wish Hook, we get to see a fully fleshed out redemption path that resolves every issue and conflict Killian has had through the show.  It allows us to see a complete happy ending for our favorite pirate.  I wouldn’t trade any part of this amazing character’s story!

With regard to Colin, I mean, I think he just genuinely enjoys playing Hook and has enjoyed it from the beginning.  He’s been talking more about season 7 Hook lately, because that’s who he’s been portraying, but that doesn’t mean he likes og Hook or CS any less.

Anyway, I hope that helps.