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iwritenarrativesandstuff · 2 years ago

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Chapter 105.5 Thoughts: Control, Manipulation and Partnership

Or, how Chuuya is actually the most qualified character to land a victory over Dostoevsky.

I just want to preface this with: I think Chuuya has woken from the brainwashing. We can't see his eyes, he's holding his hat again, and look at the progression of his face and expression from the last few chapters with him (these are in order btw from left to right).

I'm not completely sure how he did this, but I chalk a lot of it up to sheer stubborn determination on Chuuya's part, mostly because it's funny and he was clearly fighting back before Dazai's speech. However, I find it likely the speech did contain some kind of code - others have pointed out how "Goodbye!" might be a reference to the original author's last unfinished book and we know skk's codenames for things generally are based off their real counterparts' works so, maybe he'd already broken out of it, maybe there was something in there that gave him the final push - who knows at this point honestly? Either way, it means Chuuya had the capacity to break out of the vampire curse on his own and that's incredibly funny to me for many reasons but mostly:

Fyodor: "Bold of you to assume Chuuya's ability can't overcome flooding."

Dazai: "Bold of you to assume Chuuya's personality can't overcome brainwashing."

But really, this highlights something interesting here, both in what Chuuya's role is ultimately intended to be in this arc, and in the way Fyodor and Dazai manipulate and value others in very different ways.

I've said it before but it bears repeating: we already know that Fyodor is an excellent long-term planner, while Dazai is effectively able to counter him because Dazai shifts into thinking like his opponent. They're foil characters for a reason; they're both highly intelligent, manipulative, and willing to play the long game for the sake of winning against their opponent.

Thing is, I also stand by the idea that personality-wise, they're not similar at all - and that has serious implications for the people they are connected with. The build-up to the prison escape arc really highlights this. Some examples:

Chapter 46: Fyodor believes that all people are sinful and foolish and that his goal is to remove sin. Dazai believes that all people are sinful and foolish but asks what's so wrong with that.

Chapter 64: They decide to have a "super-happy chit-chat" about their problems. Dazai's solution to Fyodor's issue with his lazy subordinates is to get them to think lazing around is a bad thing so they will put in effort of their own. Fyodor's solution to Dazai being unable to woo the waitress is to isolate her from her job, house and family so that she can only rely on Dazai.

Chapter 77: Fyodor believes god is perfection and harmony, and thus that the people capable of change are the superior ones with most control. Dazai believes god is the accidental and illogical and believes it is the ordinary people who fight and live in that uncertainty who create the greatest change.

So, what's happening here? Fyodor's manipulation is shown to be very exacting and direct. He leaves no room for error and regards people on a hierarchy - God above all, himself as a servant of God's will, and the sinful and foolish humans he has little regard for. Dazai's manipulation involves manipulation of the situation, and is often indirect. It involves people coming to the conclusion he intends for them to on their own. And from his later dialogue with Sigma, we see he doesn't regard the world in that same kind of hierarchy.

Now, look at the way Fyodor picks an item and Dazai picks a person when starting the game. Look at the way Fyodor refers to Chuuya respectfully but brainwashes him entirely and mocks Dazai for not being worthy of "using" his ability. Look at the way Dazai is a complete ass to Chuuya but ultimately lets him make his own choices (begging people to take note of that moment in Stormbringer where Dazai cuts himself off to correct his referring to Corruption as Arahabaki's true power to Chuuya's true power).

So, the actual strength Dazai has over Dostoevsky then, is not really his strength at all, it's the strength of others and their choice and willpower to act in the way they believe is best. It's the only means of getting a leg up on Dostoevsky, otherwise they will continue to go around and around in circles forever.

And Chuuya is the best candidate for finally throwing Fyodor off his game.

Firstly, let's just establish something: no matter how mad he is at Dazai, he's not going to side with Fyodor, not willingly. Fyodor threatened the Mafia in the Cannibalism arc by attacking Mori, first of all. I doubt he's forgiven him for that. Secondly, Fyodor embodies everything Chuuya can't stand about Dazai, at the very least, younger Dazai - the manipulation, the lack of consideration and connection with others, the callousness and lack of regard for life.

Well, perhaps he's not quite as irritating. +1 point for Dostoevsky I guess?

But lastly, it is more advantageous for Chuuya at this point to help fight against Fyodor, especially since most of the Mafia has been vampirized by his organization. Helping the Agency stop the terrorist plot will help the Mafia by extension by undoing that. And we know from Stormbringer that no matter how much Chuuya is personally hurt, he considers taking out the threat to his people a higher priority. Always.

(You could make the argument that he was told whatever Teruko told Atsushi and decided to join, but not only do I find this wildly out of character, but if that was the case then there would've been no reason to brainwash him.)

That said, I don't think this was preemptive "Dazai's master plan #3057", and in fact, I stand by the idea that Dazai had no idea Chuuya was going to be in the prison. It is very, very important to me that for the rest of this arc, no matter what Chuuya does, that his actions are his own. Not Fyodor's, not Dazai's, but his. And not just because I hate that he's being controlled right now and that freedom of choice has always been important for Chuuya.

But because it makes narrative sense.

The vampires are a bit silly, yes, but they represent the way Fyodor and Fukuchi think - humanity will commit atrocities. They cannot be trusted to make their own decisions. They want to make a world that is free by... mind-controlling people so their plans work without a hitch. In short, they choose, on behalf of others, to sacrifice human autonomy for peace. So, if we are going to turn this arc around, we need to have characters breaking out of that control and thinking for themselves, in spite of the uncertainty of the outcome.

We already see this with Atsushi in the last chapter! He finally takes initiative and makes that choice to leave the room when he doesn't exactly know what the right thing to do is. And this is also why I don't think Teruko is wholly convinced by the DoA either - she lets him go. She gives him the freedom to choose what he does with that information.

Another one of the focus characters here is Sigma. Sigma is a guy who has no past, whose humanity is questioned, who keeps being used by organizations for his valuable ability, who has no home but desperately wants one... oh wait. Remind you of anyone's younger self? This could go one of two ways: Chuuya fails to assert his autonomy, leaving Sigma to learn from that failure, or, Chuuya succeeds in asserting his autonomy, leaving Sigma to learn from his success.

I think it, by necessity, has to be the latter. Sigma's at a tipping point right now, and I think seeing someone try to assert their freedom only to fail would damage him greatly. And I think it's a waste of Chuuya's character honestly.

Chuuya needs to assert his autonomy in this arc. Not just for thematic reasons but because I can think of no one else who can effectively break the "super-genius stalemate".

I keep hearing "Dazai knows Chuuya" in response to Fyodor calling their bond shallow, and that is absolutely true! But Chuuya also knows Dazai. Incredibly well. Odasaku knew Dazai's soul, but Chuuya knows Dazai's mind, knows his strategies and ways of thinking without even needing words. What's more, Chuuya has thrown off Dazai before and done what he didn't expect him to.

Which is nifty, because Dazai and Fyodor think a lot alike. Chuuya is in a unique position to thwart Dostoevsky because he may actually be able to predict him to a degree. Chuuya can absolutely land a victory against him, and it's excellent because it would be completely unexpected to Fyodor, who apparently thinks Chuuya's strength lies only in what his ability has to offer and not much else.

But listen. This also can't be skk's plan. I need Chuuya to sideline both of them. Both for the sweet, sweet catharsis of putting those two idiot geniuses in their places and also because I need Dazai to have screwed up. He wasn't wrong about people making their own choices in uncertainty. People need to assert their autonomy to create change. Dazai can't be wrong in this regard.

But with going ahead with the trap to drown Fyodor despite also having to drown Chuuya when he promised not to let him get killed... this needs to have been a mistake, otherwise the value of Dazai's emotional speech to him is diminished.

I want Dazai to try to laugh it off. I want him to say he always knew Chuuya would escape and then for Chuuya to deck him because "no, the fuck you didn't".

I really think Dazai hoped Chuuya would make it. Do remember that Chuuya was one of the first reasons young Dazai decided to try giving life a chance. The fact that he flashbacked to all his key memories with Chuuya says a lot. But his survival was no guarantee and it seemed very unlikely.

So, Chuuya is faced with the fact that Dazai nearly sacrificed him to kill Dostoevsky and save his new Agency friends.

And I hope he finally gets mad. I hope he finally expresses hurt on his own behalf for once. I hope they are forced to break their status quo that they have carefully maintained by not talking about anything ever. I hope they are pushed to uncomfortable places and that it is Chuuya who finally spurs this development.

Let Chuuya break the stalemate between Dazai and Dostoevsky. Let him shatter the status quo that him and Dazai have kept going for year after year.

Autonomous action in the face of uncertainty is necessary for change.

#am i assigning too much narrative importance in the main manga to chuuya? perhaps #will i stop? no #unfortunately this meta doesn't include gogol which is an oversight because he absolutely has to play a role as well #i'm just not quite sure what yet. same as chuuya i suppose #either gogol asserts his autonomy or he... fails. yeah. either he gets dostoevsky killed or... he fails.#i just don't know where he fits in with everyone else is the thing #listen though. it is significant that gogol decided not to play his dying role in the doa's plan though.#gogol is the free spirit of the doa and yet he's closer to sigma and bram in terms of how he is more controlled than controller #anyways sorry this is so long. just my two cents on the matter #bsd #bsd spoilers #bsd chapter 105.5 #bsd chuuya #bsd fyodor #bsd dazai #bsd sigma #bsd meta #i don't even know if this makes sense anymore. here.#storyrambles

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ilikepenguinz · 2 months ago

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Alright once again it is time for the now unmasked timeline anon to ramble madly about the deaths of teenagers My therapist is doing well thanks for asking

I don't have a big, thought out thesis statement like I did for the DR1 cast and I paid a lot less attention to SDR2 (I am a contradiction of an Ibuki fan but she'd probably think that's funny so I'm good) meaning this'll be even more hallucination on my end but maybe I won't burn the kitchen down

One thing that does strike me as interesting is that the DR2 cast seems like it was made to get along, even if in a toxic way, while the DR1 and DRV3 casts are kind of disasters in the making

And I actually have a theme I want to make more prevalent in DR2 through my own rewrite ideas: "When does someone's death start being a murder?"

Let's begin (rubs my hands together like a fly)

Rather than going character by character, I'll first go over the chapters and then group the characters together. You'll see what I mean.

The Chapters of Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair

First off, I'll quickly dissect the chapters and the relevant characters to them, once again focusing on the points of the deaths.

Prologue

The only part I wish to note is that Usami Monomi was blown up to give the characters reason to believe that Monokuma is legit, just like Mukuro was killed in DR1 to convince that cast.

Since none of the characters has an arc that could be resolved by being killed arbitrarily (foreshadowing is a literary device), destroying a mascot that can just come back is a fine compromise.

Chapter 1

Alright, the victim is the Imposter and the culprit is Teruteru. Why?

I feel like the Imposter is obvious, since they were literally impersonating Byakuya, a character we know from DR1, giving us a beautiful, ironic mystery that was only confusing to us, the player, while the characters don't even know that something is wrong.

Teruteru's death however, in a vacuum, is kind of pointless. The biggest impression he left on the player is that he's a complete creep towards others, especially women. So, intuitively, most might not feel all that sorry for him when he gets executed.

But here's the kicker: Teruteru is kind of a victim of circumstance. He really just wanted to stop Nagito from committing murder, even if he also wanted to leave the island to see his mom again. Unfortunately for him, the Imposter had a similar idea, making things go wrong when the two collided.

And now, I direct your attention to Teruteru's execution! Specifically, the music. SDR2 has one specific sample that plays in three executions, saying "reach for the stars, reach so far..."

I'll get to the other characters that have it, but it's pretty commonly accepted that it plays for those murderers who didn't intend to kill their eventual victims, if they even intended to kill at all.

So, Teruteru's death does have narrative meaning. It forces us as the player to empathize with someone who, by all accounts, has not deserved our empathy with his previous behaviour. It humanizes him. However, it also builds up a general idea of whether or not the Blackeneds actually are just murderers, a theme that's prevalent in DR2 but kinda goes under in 2-3 and 2-4.

The game kind of asks if it's still murder if Teruteru kills someone else. Trial 1 already starts to blur the line between murder and manslaughter.

Btw can we address that the motive was their memories? It's kind of ironic that they're promised the memories that were taken from them, but they never get them in 2-1. They get them in the later chapters instead, and only as motives to commit more murder, aka Monokuma only fulfills his end in a way that helps his goals and never any more. Scummy, I like it.

Chapter 2

I'll start on the motive rather than ending on it. Twilight Syndrome Murder Case is possibly the most iconic motive in any DR game, and for good reason. It directly depicts events from class 77-B's first year at Hope's Peak and involves multiple characters from SDR2: those being Mahiru, Hiyoko, Ibuki, Mikan and Fuyuhiko.

There's also just generally nice sense of worldbuilding by giving us HPA students outside of our main casts in Sato and Natsumi but w/e

This motive was dirty. It directly involves specific characters, it was obvious that at least one of them would be involved in the murder. And, surprise surprise, everyone except Ibuki and Mikan plays a major role in it. Motives in DR2 are more personal in comparison to DR1's and DRV3's "generic" motives in order to play on specific dynamics between characters.

DR1 had Makoto making the point that the only reason anyone actually died in Junko's killing game is that she took their memories of being classmates. I wouldn't be surprised if she took it as a challenge because she went from "no memories" to "manipulated memories" (which eventually leads to DRV3's "fake memories") in how she motivated killings.

But enough about the motive, let's talk about the victim and culprit. In the spirit of reversing the previous order, culprit first this time.

Peko commits murder only indirectly due to this motive and that's the perfect result of it. She herself is not part of Twilight Syndrome, but she's not disconnected, either; she's childhood friends with Fuyuhiko and definitely also had at least some relation to Natsumi, whose murder and its coverup were presented in the events the game depicts.

So when Fuyuhiko finds out that Mahiru had a role in his sister's death and almost kills her, Peko steps in and kills her herself. Fuyuhiko makes the mistake of letting these memories, his past, define him for a moment, and Peko won't allow that to take away his future. (Wow it's almost like that's a major theme of SDR2 whoaaaaa)

And we all know how the trial ends, Peko is exposed for having struck Mahiru with the metal bat, but she makes the argument that she wasn't the culprit since she was Fuyuhiko's tool. Another point for the "this was not a proper murder" theme, just this time with the question of "Can someone be so depersonalized that they are a murder weapon instead of a murderer?"

DR2's answer is no, at least in the case of Peko. Fuyuhiko never saw her as a tool, she was always a person, one he deeply cared about no less. Because of these events, he learns that him never addressing the feelings they had for each other (be they romantic or platonic) ended up sealing Peko's fate.

But I'll leave the gushing over 2-2's story and themes to people who are as autistic about SDR2 as I am about DR1. (I will continue gushing actually sorry) Finally, let's discuss what is arguably the "weakest" part of this case, even if it's still a pretty good one: the victim, Mahiru Koizumi.

Here's what I consider interesting about Twilight Syndrome and how it relates to our main cast: Mahiru and Fuyuhiko have their friend/sister killed in it while Ibuki, Hiyoko and Mikan are really just there as side characters. Sato killed Natsumi for Mahiru. The one who helped cover up the killing was Mahiru. The only one left to take revenge on after Sato's death was Mahiru.

Really, nobody except Mahiru could've realistically ended up as the victim, unless someone wanted to give Fuyuhiko a hard time for killing the person who murdered his little sister. Murder may be wrong, but it's clear that, from his perspective, it was justified. (Justice is kinda a secondary theme of 2-2 now that I think about it.) Only someone with an emotional connection to Sato would have reason to give him more shit than her.

And who had an emotional connection to Sato? Mahiru.

Mahiru is by no means some kind of supervillain. She's really just a teenage girl that occasionally gives guys a hard time, partially due to her complex relationship with her parents. And yet she helped cover up a murder. I won't lie, that's kinda scary to me.

Danganronpa generally has this story thread of how fucked up Hope's Peak is as an institution. SDR2 especially shows that with the Reserve Course and Hajime being turned into Izuru. But, apparently, there's something so deeply rotten about this school that even its completely normal students commit pretty heinous actions for rather selfish reasons. No wonder Junko wanted to get in, despair was practically brewing on its own.

So, in a way, Mahiru got karmic retribution for her sin in 2-2. Did she deserve it? I don't think so, but I wouldn't blame anyone for disagreeing. It's ironic, though. Mahiru got punished for her misdeed by someone who was only tangentially related to what she did.

Maybe that's why Peko puts on the Sparkling Justice mask. Regardless of whether she thinks so or not, she technically acted in the sense of justice. Just a very extreme justice.

Oh, also, Mahiru and Peko make a good pair to kill off in one chapter together because they cause arcs in Hiyoko and Fuyuhiko. I sure hope none of them get cut short for Kodaka's needless desire to make every third chapter a double murder-

Also I don't know how to integrate this but these posts give me brain worms (affectionate) and make Mahiru and Peko a really interesting duo in my eyes.

@foryoupeko I fully blame you for me writing 2 pages about this case involving characters I only somewhat care about, what have you done to me /j

In summary: The motive was dirty and basically forced everyone into a certain path whether they wanted to or not. Peko's death furthers the theme of questioning murder as a concept while also showing the dangers of letting the past define you as it can hurt those around you as well. Finally, Mahiru is definitely not as perfect a victim as the Imposter was, but she exposes just how far reaching the messed up nature of Hope's Peak is *and* is a bit of a microcosm about how even unwilling sinners are harshly punished in Danganronpa, despite their agency being taken from them. (But this last part is potentially just thematic self indulgence on my end)

Chapter 3

Mikan is a really interesting killer to me, primarily for the reasons OP already mentioned. It's a really good narrative of the dangers of not helping those who need it and people snapping. Speaking from experience, that is a real danger and I kind of applaud SDR2 for daring to have such an interesting message about preventable tragedy.

The motive is also something fascinating: the Despair Disease. The ones that get infected are Ibuki, Akane, Nagito and Mikan, although the latter is a twist. And who's the killer? The one who gets the memory disease. The one who remembers.

I joked that Junko must've taken Makoto's reasoning as a challenge, but, if we're honest, this emphasis on the danger of memories is just part of the past vs future theme SDR2 embodies. Just like Fuyuhiko fell to the past of his sister's death, Mikan fell to the past of her brainwashing, acts of terrorism & the general abuse she suffered.

Difference is that Fuyuhiko had someone to save him, someone that cared, while Mikan lacked people that actively cared for her. (Jesus Christ it’s Makoto and Kiyotaka again)

And who did she kill? The person that sexualized her to hell and back (thanks for pointing that out Crane, wouldn't have remembered that without ya) and her most active bully. This... is kind of where this chapter falls flat. The motive and killer are great, but everyone knows the victims (emphasis on the plural) are a bit of an issue. Let's talk about the one that works first.

Ibuki dying in 2-3 is similar to Chihiro dying in 1-2, a tone shift. The bubbly, excitable (and actually somewhat helpful in trials) musician dies, permanently altering the mood of the group. Add OP's notes on the relationship between her and Mikan and her death becomes truly meaningful.

But what I think is the most interesting is that, as far as we know, Mikan got her to kill herself. And, keep in mind, Mikan isn't thinking straight due to not being straight the Despair Disease reverting her to a Remnant. And keep in mind, she has the "reach for the stars, reach so far..." sample in her execution theme, indicating unintentional killing here. That's how 2-3 makes calling Mikan a murderer difficult.

Until Hiyoko stumbles into the crime scene and unravels the entire chapter. 2-3 did not need to be a double murder and I quite frankly wonder how Kodaka would've tried to kill off Fuyuhiko here in a way that isn't even more sloppy.

Hiyoko was murdered by Mikan, there's no doubt about it aside from the Despair Disease, which is already a factor with Ibuki. And it's thematically pointless, as it kinda ruins Mikan's "medical malpractice" theme, has nothing to do with the killer's motivation, is barely explained anyway and just cuts off Hiyoko's arc right before it can even properly start. Most I can make of it is a Makoto-Kiyotaka type mirroring between Fuyuhiko and Hiyoko, but that works a lot less than it did in DR1 as it isn't really built up to and his mirroring with Mikan is a lot stronger anyway.

I'm afraid I don't have much else to say on this case, it's a very openly known black sheep among the SDR2 chapters.

Chapter 4

(Note that there's a big chance I'll mix up some details from chapters 4 and 5 since I don't remember how much of this is revealed when sorgy)

The motivation this time is starvation, but memories are still used against the cast due to the information one can obtain through the Final Dead Room. It's the reveal that everyone except Chiaki used to be Remnants of Despair that causes Nagito to more actively work against the group.

And it's the reveal that Hajime was never actually an Ultimate that ends up breaking him a little.

But I want to pull attention to the fact that this chapter reveals to the group that a killing game already happened in DR1. (Not sure if this is fanon or canon, but they, as Remnants, helped with that killing game, so it's another "sins of the past" type situation.)

Finally, they also find out that Byakuya was part of that game, wondering if their classmate knew more than he let on, using the memories we ourselves made in this game against the characters since they don’t know that Twogami was a fake.

I think that Gundham and Nekomaru are so equal here that they need to be discussed together. They decided to fight to the death so that the others could actually leave. This brings something to a death in DR that we didn't have before: consent between killer and victim.

Both of them basically accepted the chance that they'd die. This is how 2-4 makes calling Gundham a murderer difficult: he technically just fought against an opponent and honored their mutual agreement. (I will use this in my own rewrite notes so keep this in mind)

I'm afraid I'm already a bit spent on analysing 2-4, as the deaths aren't really anything I can comment on in more detail. Nekomaru sacrifices himself again and Gundham makes his soft side for animals also show towards his classmates. Shit's very in character for these two.

Chapter 5

I've avoided talking about Nagito because he makes my blood boil, but we all know he's a walking Makoto parallel so I might as well speak on that.

Nagito, in the context of the theme of memories, is a misremembered version of Makoto. He always talks about hope, he sees himself as worthless in comparison to Ultimates, and his luck is all but a superpower.

Nagito is basically as close to a flanderized version of Makoto you can get without losing actual character depth. I don't like this asshole, but I have to admit that there's a lot to him.

So I think it's only fitting that the walking memory is the one that snaps when he finds out the truth about his past as a Remnant. When the others find out, they're horrified, but they're not so bought into Hope's Peak's bullshit that they think they have no right to live.

And, although there is no official motive given like in every 5th chapter, these memories *are* Nagito's motive. Once again, manipulated information is proving itself to be arguably even more dangerous than no information.

And I think that's why Nagito's death is so good in this chapter. He has so thoroughly messed with our memory of "the hopeful Ultimate Lucky Student" that we might just fall for the fake Makoto in 2-6. We are not exempt from having our memories used against us.

While Nagito messes with our memories going forward, Chiaki does it when looking back. She is fucking omnipresent throughout SDR2, almost always at Hajime's side. So many memories you make with the characters involve her, so when you find out that she isn't real, that she's "the traitor", all of these memories are a little soured.

Sure, Chiaki is and always was kind, but was she even real? Were the moments real? Were Are our feelings real? Especially in this digital world? Hajime can't be sure.

2-5 is all about memories, which is what makes it a perfect set up for 2-6 to fully emphasize the past vs future conflict.

And, finally, it also gives us the most extreme version of "the killer isn't really a murderer", as Chiaki just doesn't commit murder. She commits manslaughter as part of a plan Nagito, the "victim", came up with.

2-1 mixed murder with manslaughter. 2-2 mixed murder with depersonification and justice. 2-3 mixed murder with suicide. 2-4 mixed murder with consent. 2-5 removes the murder entirely, circling back to manslaughter.

Therefore, her execution having the “reach for the stars, reach so far…” sample is pretty straightforward.

Chapter 6

I believe the theme of what makes up murder is already resolved by its climax in 2-5, so it doesn't play too much of a role here.

The theme of memories and their danger becomes much more central, though. As I said, it becomes the central past vs future conflict. Ultimately, the students have two options: forever live in a memory with their friends alive or accept the harsh reality of death while risking the memory of Junko to resurface, tarnishing the memories they have of their friends.

The word memory means nothing to me anymore.

Hajime, Fuyuhiko and Akane surviving makes a lot of sense. They all have a very obvious someone they lost, and the latter two can probably not bear the thought of these memories being ruined.

But Hajime already had his memories "ruined", only to be reminded that the past never changed. He grew close to Chiaki, regardless of what happened and was revealed in 2-5. And thus, he learned to move on, teaching the same lesson to his friends.

And then there's Sonia and Kazuichi, both of which kinda mess up this resolution. Sonia does have Gundham to grieve, but it's not as deep to her character as the aforementioned 3 and Kazuichi didn't really lose anyone super special to him.

I believe this is why Sonia and Hiyoko are such a common swap in rewrites. It just completes the themes of the game much better and rounds out the survivor cast to be as good as DR1's.

So, I believe it's time to discuss the connections between these traumatized teenagers.

Class 77-B: The Messiest, Most Awful, Most Toxic Polycule in Human History

Note that this is all about their relationships in SDR2. I have not watched DR3.

Why does the surviving cast feel off?

As I said before, I wanna group the students together a little. I don't have a clue where this'll lead us but I've bullshitted this far, so who knows what I'll pretend to figure out!

I would say that there are 4 boxes we can fit the DR2 cast in.

Twilight Syndrome Gang: Mahiru, Hiyoko, Ibuki, Mikan, Fuyuhiko and Peko Sonia & Simps Incorporated: Sonia, Gundham, Kazuichi Sports Lunatics: Nekomaru, Akane The Outsiders: Hajime, Nagito, Chiaki, Imposter, Teruteru

You can kind of see the issue this provides for the surviving cast, right? No matter how you splice it, 5 survivors lead to at least 2 of one group surviving no matter what.

This is why Kazuichi and Sonia surviving may somewhat hinder the catharsis of the ending. As I said before: Akane, Fuyuhiko and Hajime make sense, as they all lost people deeply important to them. They are the sole survivors of their minor groups while Sonia and Kazuichi have each other after only losing Gundham.

But there's no fix for that besides cutting a survivor, right? Well, of course there isn't. You can't get 5 people from 4 groups without this issue. Which is why me saying that there are 4 was a filthy lie!

Twilight Syndrome Murder Case's characters can be neatly divided into two sides.

Sato's side: Mahiru, Hiyoko, Ibuki and Mikan Natsumi's side: Fuyuhiko and Peko

Fundamentally, TwiSyn is about Sato killing Natsumi, that's the focus. Everything else is either buildup to or consequence of it.

This is what makes the Sonia/Hiyoko swap so interesting. It's not just "giving Kazuichi someone to lose while not utterly wasting Hiyoko", it's continuing what is one of the most important conflicts in the in-universe history of Class 77-B.

2-2 basically left Fuyuhiko alone and took Hiyoko's biggest confidant. 2-3 had the remaining two girls so preoccupied with their own toxic relationship that they killed each other, leaving Hiyoko alone, too.

When all three of them die, it doesn’t affect Fuyuhiko the way it could’ve affected him and Hiyoko if they were the last two standing. They would be all but forced to trauma bond by the circumstances.

The difference between them would be that Fuyuhiko is already trying to move on, with him cutting his stomach open to apologize and such, while Hiyoko is still losing herself as she grieves Mahiru and, possibly and more subconsciously, Ibuki and Mikan.

It's basically past vs future all over again.

So, 5 groups, 1 survivor each. That's how, in my opinion, we get a good surviving cast.

But why?

All of these kids desperately need a therapist

These groups are defined by conflict.

Nekomaru and Akane get along well, but I think that's partially because their conflicts are physical. They fight it out, basically. Plus, there is the problem that Nekomaru provides Akane’s first ever social safety cushion, something that kinda stunts her growth until he finally does die and she is forced to learn to balance between comfort and strength. One can interpret that as their brand of toxicity.

I don't think Sonia, Gundham and Kazuichi need to be explained. Kazuichi's obsession with Sonia, Sonia's politeness being the one thing stopping her from crashing out on him and Gundham being caught in the middle are a recipe for disaster.

Peko and Fuyuhiko are just... beyond unstable early on. They don't really understand each other or themselves or anything. Peko can somewhat mask the mess she is, but Fuyuhiko lashes out instead. They're kind of like those structures that should collapse but keep themselves upright due to constant stress. Should one of them lose the other, they'd have to quickly adapt or they would fall over like a domino. That's what we see in Fuyuhiko post 2-2.

Mahiru's friend group is also a mess. Hiyoko's a bully to everyone except her "big sis" and Mahiru keeps defending her when someone claps back. It's obviously not malice, but a serious blindspot she has. Mikan being part of the group is interesting, as she is Hiyoko's biggest victim, even if Hiyoko does grow fond of her. And then there's Ibuki. I can't really formulate her toxicity in relation to Mikan better than OP, so I'll just reiterate that she's the main culprit in sexualizing her. They do care for each other, but this group isn't healthy long-term, especially for Mikan.

Finally, the outsiders. You'd think that this band of misfits would have everyone belong somewhere, but they're not exempt from having people who can't fit in. Teruteru and Nagito aren't exactly well liked when they're at their worst. This is a problem for them, since they're rarely at their best. Imposter just naturally can't fully fit in because they can't be themselves.

Finally, Hajime and Chiaki. They don’t seem to be outsiders, but I think that’s a fault of Hajime’s perspective. Neither of them really fit into any group, they mainly stick together and get slightly weirded out by their classmates (presumably because Hajime and AI Chiaki aren't actually members of 77-B).

The other groups are defined and united by something (fighting, Sonia, mutual pining, being lesbian) but these five don’t have that. And if you wonder about the toxicity among this group, just put Hajime and Nagito in a room together and you'll see it for yourself.

But here’s something to note: all of these groups are toxic to themselves, not unlike a Makoto-less Class 78. And yet, there’s a fondness pulling them together. Like Hiyoko and Mikan, just on a bigger scale.

You also see that across groups. Akane and Fuyuhiko talking may lead to a healthy conversation about their feelings or a lot of insults and death threats. Ibuki and Kazuichi can both be chaotic buddies or completely tone deaf towards each other. Hajime and Mikan can either heal together or do whatever the fuck Mikan tried to achieve in 2-3.

They love each other, but this love is poisonous. They can absolutely teach each other to be better, but they need help. And I suppose that’s why AI Chiaki exists.

But Chiaki fails, doesn’t she? The groups I established tore themselves and each other apart simply due to their toxicity. Only once Chiaki gets executed and all groups are down to one member each do they understand their negativity. This first tears them down, but it allows for them to eventually grow and let their mutual love persevere.

Even if me calling Class 77-B and Hajime a polycule was a joke, I do believe there is another world where they manage to get the therapy they need, which allows them to become the queerplatonic friend group they were meant to be. They care about each other. This is both why Junko managed to turn them into Remnants and why they managed to overcome her in the end.

Actually rewriting SDR2

I feel like it’s obvious that I agree with OP in switching Hiyoko and Sonia. However, for the sake of making the themes work better, I will have to go beyond the “no death shuffling” restriction. Allow me to explain why.

DR cases have one defining feature that makes them unique from others, be it in universe or out of universe.

1-1 is a murder attempt gone wrong. 1-2 is a completely unintended tragedy. 1-3 is a sequential double murder (Celeste kills Hifumi kills Taka). 1-4 is a suicide. 1-5 is a fake murder. 2-1 hit the wrong target. 2-2 has an indirect culprit. 2-4 is a mutually agreed upon battle. 2-5 was a plan by the victim.

Only 2-3 sticks out like a sore thumb here. I would’ve said it’s special in one person getting another to commit suicide, but Hiyoko breaks that. And it’s not like she adds anything instead.

Therefore, I will steal from OP’s AU where Mahiru lives, just with chapter 2 remaining untouched and Hiyoko surviving past chapter 3.

This means the following: Sonia dies, but not to Mikan. She joins Gundham in the Final Dead Room and dies in the game of Russian Roulette.

I would have Gundham utterly ruined by this. He blames himself for allowing Sonia to come with him and dying. He pleads with Monokuma, begging to be a Blackened as he is partially responsible for Sonia’s death, both due to self-blame and wanting to get his friends out of the fun house. He doesn’t get his wish, as Sonia herself chose to point the gun at her own head, bringing up the consent theme of this chapter.

Gundham can’t bring himself to tell his classmates what happened, so he spirals while everyone wonders where Sonia vanished. This becomes especially important to Hiyoko and Kazuichi as they go down the arcs OP had in his rewrite, but also kind of bond with each other post-trial over losing her.

Gundham, starting to break under the pressure of Sonia’s death and the fun house, is now far more motivated to accept the duel with Nekomaru. Nekomaru has lost himself physically, as he’s a robot now, while Gundham lost himself psychologically. They’re on even grounds once more, except that Gundham hopes that he dies while Nekomaru is fine with either possibility. Just to rub some more salt in the wound when Gundham wins.

Adding to the guilt Blackeneds feel, I wanna make one change to the end of 2-3 that I’ll steal straight from a comic I saw on Reddit (I sadly can’t find the original so I’ll go off memory).

Cure Mikan of the Despair Disease after she is convicted. Make her snap out of the Remnant state and completely forget what happened ever since she first got infected.

She wonders why the group is at the trial grounds. She realizes that Ibuki is not present. She puts together that the musician might've been a victim. She wonders why everyone is so horrified when they stare at her. She remembers that she was supposed to take care of the sick Ibuki. She puts everything together and realizes what happened.

She realizes all this in seconds. And then she's a sobbing mess, realizing what she did against her will and what will happen next. This gives the "reach for the stars" sample much more reason to be present in the execution.

This does sorta weaken Hiyoko's arc a little in comparison to OP's rewrite, as it flips Sonia's and Mikan's death order around, but I believe it would still work well, make her more systematically lonely until she can get herself to open up and is overall a fine compromise with the overarching themes of SDR2.

In Conclusion

I have successfully bullshitted my way through this again, I could work in marketing

But yeah I think the themes of "where does murder begin" and "memories can be dangerous if manipulated" are fascinating and SDR2 could've explored them a bit deeper Also the kids yearn for more trauma

I think the bonds between Class 77-B are a thing of beauty, honestly. 78 is a fucking mess, and, while 77-B is too, I can actually see them get close on their own.

These people are so fucking bad for each other, but I'd doubt they'd he happy pre-SDR2 if they were not together. Even as Remnants, 14 of the original 16 students were still part of the group and they took Hajime/Izuru as one of their own. I definitely have a preference for DR1 and its cast, but I can not fault anyone for loving these 15 clinically depressed teenagers and their emotional support gamer girl.

Anyway yeah I'm a Hiyoko truther, feel free to call me a basic bitch /j

Oh god I completely forgot to talk about Izuru, shit

Alright time for me to stop yapping before I get to page 13 of this rant, how is this longer than my DR1 death analysis wtf

You say "unleashed the beast" as if this rewrite wasn't exactly what I wanted smh

Also I did allow for shuffling deaths around lol, I think you misread that

But aye the idea of Genocider being a fictive is actually really really cool, props for that

Even if you and I got some wildly different opinions (I don't like Celeste all that much sorgy) that was a pretty good read, so take this as a reminder to do the other games as well

Also unrelated but I do wanna doodle a lil smth for you since I got obsessed with your blog but who knows when I'll actually get the time to draw

Anyway, have a good one

- timeline autism anon

LMAO all good timeline anon! I was surprised by the restriction but this makes more sense lol. Still, I started under this level of restriction, and I will finish it like so! Though I have to admit, it'll probably be a lot harder to do with sdr2 in particular

(If you're at all curious, letting people shuffle places likely wouldn't have changed much for THH anyway, save maybe having Byakuya kill Taka and Hiro both and set up the whole thing. But I honestly like it better the way it came out anyway, so who cares lol)

Glad you liked the first one! Ik Celeste isn't for everyone, but she's so thematically strong with the rest of the main cast she seems like a strong move for me. Curious who you'd choose though?

You're gonna draw me a doodle? 🥹 timeline anon I'm honored just don't forget anon ask doesn't allow images

Anywho, let's try our hand at SDR2, shall we?

GOODBYE DESPAIR- ONE SWAP

I doubt I'll have nearly as much trouble with UDG and V3 as I did deciding this one, and that's mainly based in just how inter-connected the story of sdr2 and its survivors really are. Every chapter is pretty well-structured within itself with who lives and dies, and the survivors are all well selected as characters with strong arcs or just that have no reason to be targeted at any point. If any one game has the most overarching consistent story quality, it's SDR2, even if I think the other three games have higher highs and stronger individual moving parts.

That said, Sonia is getting the axe. Don't get me wrong; I really like Sonia! She's a very fun and endearing character. And it's not like she's a bad survivor pick by any means. However, Hajime, Fuyuhiko, and Akane all have really strong character arcs, and Kazuichi has to be alive until at least the ch4 investigation in order to fix that elevator. And since Gundham, Nagito, and Chiaki all have really important roles to play in their respective places, Kazuichi has to live by default. By process of elimination, Sonia is all that's left.

Once, a long time ago, I made a google slide about why subbing in Sonia as a survivor with Mahiru would be the best way to fix all my personal problems with SDR2, and later posted it on here. Problem is, that slide also included the changes I'd make to chapters 2, 3, and 4 as a result to make these changes fit. And, as you know, I'm sticking with the 'only one swap' for this story. One survivor and one dead character swap, everyone else stays in their respective places. So sadly, my Mahiru fix-it AU isn't applicable here. Then what's the solution? We swap one blonde for another, having Sonia die as the unexpected second victim in chapter 3 and allow for Hiyoko to finish her arc.

CH 1-2

There's not really any changes to be made here, to be honest. I believe Kodaka has actually confirmed on either twitter or bluesky that Hiyoko was originally going to live before being subbed out for Fuyuhiko, and you can kind of tell, especially in the second chapter. So I really don't see much point in changing anything about these chapters.

CH 3

The chapter 3 murder for this game has ALWAYS pissed me tf off. It's physically impossible for Mikan to have pulled off that kind of coverup with that much speed and precision, and I'm not even talking about clumsiness here. I'm talking her following immediately behind Hajime to watch him find Ibuki's body, run in behind him, unveil Hiyoko's body and hide the coverup, and destroy the camera, and use quick-dry glue to glue the doors shut in an extremely hot venue on a DESERT ISLAND, then run back to the hospital to meet Fuyuhiko, and then WALK AROUND THE ISLAND THE LONG WAY, all in the same timespan it took Hajime to SPRINT to the NEAREST NEIGHBORING BUILDING AND TALK BRIEFLY TO TWO PEOPLE. Fuck ch 3 murder plot frfr. So if I take this victim-swap as an opportunity to rewrite this entire case, well, then, just forgive me already!

In the game, Sonia was the one that found Hiyoko struggling with her kimono without Mahiru's help, and wanted to assist her. Despite that, Hiyoko wouldn't let her. It's Sonia herself who actually tells Hiyoko about the full-length mirror. So we can easily use this to motive-swap the reason why it's Sonia going to the music venue instead of Hiyoko. Hiyoko won't go outside, not for anything, so instead of telling Hiyoko about the mirror, she resolves to go get it for her as a gift.

I'm thinking Kazuichi, in all his definitely normal ways of crushing, sees her on her way out and asks where she's going, asking of she wants an escort even, and her telling him she left something at the venue and doesn't need help. He wants to go anyway but decides to not be weird about it and lets her go. Not only does this help triangulate the time she left, it also allows for Kazuichi to actually, you know. Have an arc. The guilt he'd feel about not having gone with her, only for Hiyoko and/or Fuyuhiko to tell him it only would've gotten him killed too and that it was better he didn't keep forcing himself on her could be good for him. Simultaneously, it's a really good setup for his increasing paranoia in the following chapter.

Now, let's say the murder itself ends up being pretty similar to how it happened in-game. The plan is to hang up Ibuki and make it look like her death was a suicide, Sonia just so happens to walk in on it, Mikan ends up forced to kill her out of necessity. All that works. The problem is the cover-up. So what do we do? I think we want it to look like Ibuki killed Sonia, then hung herself out of guilt. So all we really need to do, rather than go through all the steps of confusing the death order, is leave Sonia's body exactly where it is and alter the entrance to the venue a bit. Let there be a back door behind the curtains of the stage, and more importantly, let its existence be hidden and mostly unknown by the group. In fact, besides Ibuki and Mikan, have no one know about it until the investigation. I'm thinking that after finding the setup for the fake hanging live video, Hajime and Chiaki go back to look at the stage curtain again and pull it away, only to find the hidden back door, and have that be the final trigger for the trial to begin. Using this back door, Mikan could lock the front door and run out the back before Hajime ever shows up, then act out the hanging in the morning. Hajime wouldn't be able to open the door, he'd run to the hotel, and Mikan would just need to wait for Fuyuhiko and start looking in the same direction. She conveniently meets Hajime and Chiaki when they 'can't open the door' to the venue, and thus, an alibi is granted without all the strangeness of the cover-up that the official game had.

Hiyoko was Mikan's #1 biggest bully. We all know this. So I think her being alive to watch Mikan's breakdown would be really great for her character, especially when you see who Mikan did kill. On the one hand, Ibuki being the specific target Mikan chose is a FASCINATING choice from a character perspective. Ibuki was actually the one sexually objectifying her the most out of the cast prior to now, talking about how cute and sexy she was whenever she was upset and even going so far as to ask Mikan to take sexy photos of her when she fell in the salad position in the first chapter. Mikan, as we know, thrives on negative attention; it's why she got so attached to Junko, so her being associated with Ibuki after the fact and even getting ready for the beach day with her in chapter 2 made sense. Thus, her turning around and killing her, and then re-enacting it to look like a death of her own choice, is really, really interesting, especially when you realize that she only did so after regaining her memories. Ibuki did NOT treat her well, and she returns the favor when she remembers her actual beloved. Now we pair that with Sonia, who did literally nothing to her whatsoever. If anything, Sonia was one of the nicer members of the cast, as even if she doesn't like someone, she remains at least polite, with Kaz as a notable exception but hell, I think we all know why.

Hiyoko not only surviving Mikan's snap, but also being indirectly responsible for the death of Sonia, then, could push her over the edge in a really, really great way. Mikan emphasizing that killing her friends meant nothing, nothing because it was for her beloved, that it didn't matter who she killed, and perhaps most interestingly, that Hiyoko's jabs and prods and insults meant nothing, she had no power, only Mikan did, would go so, so hard. Imagine, Hiyoko leaving that trial and trying to regain some sense of control. Oh, I knew something was wrong with that stupid bitch, I survived, Sonia was stupid for walking into that, only to privately get crushed under the weight of it? Immaculate. I'm imagining something like a scene between Hiyoko and Chiaki where Chiaki gently tells her it's okay to be angry, but it's also okay to mourn, too, and maybe asking if she'd like to add Sonia to her memorial. Maybe Hiyoko tries to keep a brave face, but her true grief breaks through the cracks, and her insistence that she's not crying over it being a clear distinction from when she fake-cries to make people feel bad.

CH 4

The main changes are dynamic-wise, as the story itself from here on out is pretty airtight. For one thing, ch 4 had a lot of casual Sondham, with Sonia and Gundham going off together a few times and Sonia's disbelief at Gundham being the killer. So instead, I imagine this chapter would focus more on what Kazuichi and Gundham's dynamic would look like without Sonia, mainly in Kazuichi awkwardly trying to latch himself onto Gundham and Gundham NOT having a good time. Think to the cast pairing up when they wake up in the funhouse; in-game, Sonia and Gundham run off without telling anyone, but here, I imagine it'd look more like Kazuichi insisting on pairing up with Gundham, and when he responds in disbelief, Kaz says something along the lines of "Miss- I mean, Sonia- she trusted you more than anyone else, right? If we're gonna pair up, you're probably the safest bet." And Gundham sighs but lets him follow along, because Kaz is too much of a coward to kill anyway.

This frees up Chiaki to pair up with Mechamaru instead(we all know she was obsessed with his robot form), and leaves Hiyoko with Hajime. I'm not sure exactly how this would look, but most likely, it's Hiyoko being whiny and complainy and maybe even trying to run away from Hajime. When her hand is forced, though, I'm thinking an admission of survivor's guilt- people who get close to her die. It happened with Mahiru and Sonia; they stuck their necks out for her and paid the price. She lost her own father to people after her. So Hajime should just fuck off and get out of her way; she can take care of herself. And Hajime could, in classic Hajime fashion, call bullshit. He's literally the one who proved her innocence for Mahiru's murder AND got Chiaki to help her tie up her kimono before the trial. What happened to Mahiru and Sonia weren't her fault at all, and honestly, it's kinda conceited to act otherwise, ngl :/ I think mouthing off to someone who can actually match her energy here is what she needs. The more I think about it, actually, Hajime and Chiaki are the two opposing ends of what Hiyoko needed. Funny how that goes.

Anywho, I'd also like for Hajime and Hiyoko overhearing Akane and Fuyuhiko's conversation to be unskippable; that's such a strong moment for both characters, and making it skippable is such a disservice to them both.

One other thing for Kaz. Gundham being the killer would make him regress more, or so you might initially think. But Gundham's whole thing is anti-cowardice here. Letting themselves starve to death was the coward's way out, so killing for the sake of everyone's spirit would more likely inspire Kaz to really accept that his classmates are his friends first and to swear off his former cowardice forever. This also explains why he'd go forward trying to catch Nagito and save the group without it being just "to impress Miss Sonia."

CH 5

So you know how Sonia's whole thing in this chapter is knowing a fuckton about military weaponry and being shrugged off by the others in the investigation for seemingly no reason other than sexism? Well, I think it actually works a lot better with Hiyoko here. In the previous chapters, we've seen Hiyoko struggle to want to help the others over protecting herself, and the people she gets close to consistently dying. So in a new chapter where Nagito is running wild, Hiyoko wanting to actually get to work on the ruins and not being taken seriously feels more in-line with the way people treat her. She's a whiny, self-serving crybaby with like no physical strength, she certainly can't help in capturing Nagito! Plus, Hiyoko's whole thing is being perceived as a child, and her trying to take advantage of that to get what she wants. So seeing it actively work against her in that everyone tries to tell her not to help in catching Nagito and to stay out of it and stay safe would make for a good chance for her to prove herself. Maybe she doesn't know a ton about the military like Sonia would, but she has survived multiple attempted assassinations, and I think her insisting on being there when they catch Nagito and maybe even jumping and pulling Kaz away from the bomb right before it goes off would be a good defining moment of growth for her.

CH 6

Having Hiyoko there to confirm that she has no sister or family that looks like the picture is way better than having to take Monokuma at his word. Just saying. Also, Hiyoko hearing Mahiru in the final sequence just feels right. Maybe Kaz could hear Sonia and Gundham this way, too

I'm lowkey falling in love with this au we're making here help-

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