#I’m just like a little upset that this person is presenting themself on a moral highground while not making any effort to respect artists

[c-is-for-circinate]

Something that’s been very interesting to me, in this new wave of post-miniseries Good Omens fandom, is the apparent fannish consensus that Crowley is, in fact, bad at his job.  That he’s actually quite nice.  That he’s been skating by hiding his general goodness from hell by taking credit for human evil and doling out a smattering of tiny benign inconveniences that he calls bad.

I get the urge towards that headcanon, and I do think the Crowley in the miniseries comes off as nicer than the one in the book.  (I think miniseries Crowley and Aziraphale are both a little nicer, a little more toothless, than the versions of themselves in the book.)  But maybe it’s because I was a book fan first, or maybe it’s because I just find him infinitely more interesting this way--I think Crowley, even show!Crowley, has the capacity to be very good at his job of sowing evil.  And I think that matters to the story as a whole.

A demon’s job on Earth, and specifically Crowley’s job on Earth, isn’t to make people suffer.  It’s to make people sin.  And the handful of ‘evil’ things we see Crowley do over the course of the series are effective at that, even if the show itself doesn’t explore them a lot.

Take the cell phone network thing, for instance.  This gets a paragraph in the book that’s largely brushed off in the conversation with Hastur and Ligur, and I think it’s really telling: 

What could he tell them?  That twenty thousand people got bloody furious?  That you could hear the arteries clanging shut all across the city?  And that then they went back and took it out on their secretaries or traffic wardens or whatever, and they took it out on other people?  In all kinds of vindictive little ways which, and here was the good bit, they thought up themselves.  For the rest of the day.  The pass-along effects were incalculable.  Thousands and thousands of souls all got a faint patina of tarnish, and you hardly had to lift a finger.

In essence, without any great expenditure of effort (look, I’d never say Crowley isn’t slothful, but that just makes him efficient), he’s managed to put half of London in a mental and emotional state that Crowley knows will make them more inclined to sin.  He’s given twenty thousand or a hundred thousand or half a million people a Bad Day.  Which, okay, it’s just a bad day--but bad days are exhausting.  Bad days make you snap, make you fail at things, make you feel guiltier and more stressed out in the aftermath when you wake up the next day, makes everything a little worse.  Bad days matter.

Maybe it’s because I’m a believer in the ripple effect of small kindnesses, and that means I have to believe in its opposite.  Maybe it’s just that I, personally, have had enough days that were bad enough that a downed cell network (or an angry coworker because of a downed cell network) would honestly have mattered.  But somebody who deliberately moves through the world doing their best to make everyone’s lives harder, with the aim of encouraging everybody around them to be just a little crueler, just a little angrier, just a little less empathetic--you know what, yes.  I do call that successful evil.

It’s subtle, is the thing.  That’s why Hastur and Ligur don’t get it, don’t approve of it.  Not because Crowley isn’t good at his job, but because we’ve seen from the beginning that Hastur and Ligur are extremely out of touch with humanity and the modern world and just plain aren’t smart enough to get it.  It’s a strategy that relies on understanding how humans work, what our buttons are and how to press them.  It’s also a strategy that’s remarkably advanced in terms of free will.  Hastur and Ligur deliberately tempt and coerce and entrap individuals into sinning, but Crowley never even gets close.  We never see him say to a single person, ‘hey, I’ve got an idea for you, why don’t you go do this bad thing?’  He sets up conditions to encourage humans to actually do the bad things they’re already thinking of themselves.  He creates a situation and opens it up to the results of free choice.  Every single thing a person does after Crowley’s messed with them is their own decision, without any demonic coercion to blame for any of it.

You see it again in the paintball match.  "They wanted real guns, I gave them what they wanted.”  In this case, Crowley didn’t need to irritate anybody into wanting to do evil--the desire to shoot and hurt and maybe even kill their own coworkers was already present in every combatant on that paintball field.  Crowley just so happened to be there at exactly the right time to give them the opportunity to turn that fleeting, kind-of-bad-but-never-acted-upon desire into real, concrete, attempted murder.  Sure, nobody died--where would be the fun in a pile of corpses?  But now forty-odd people who may never have committed a real act of violence in their entire lives, caught in a moment of weakness with real live weapons in their hands, will get to spend the rest of their lives knowing that given the opportunity and the tiniest smidgen of plausible deniability, they are absolutely the sort of people who could and would kill another human being they see every single day over a string of petty annoyances.

Crowley understands the path between bad thought and evil action.  He knows it gets shorter when somebody is upset or irritated, and that it gets shorter when people practice turning one into the other.  He understands that sometimes, removing a couple of practical obstacles is the only nudge a person needs--no demonic pressure or circumvention of free will required.

I love this interpretation, because I love the idea that Crowley, who’s been living on Earth for six thousand years, actually gets people in a way no other demon can.  I love the idea that Crowley, the very first tempter, who was there when free will was invented, understands how it works and how to use it better than maybe anyone else.  And I really love the idea that Crowley our hero, who loves Aziraphale and saves the world, isn’t necessarily a good guy.

There’s a narrative fandom’s been telling that, at its core, is centered around the idea that Crowley is good, and loves and cares and is nice, and always has been.  Heaven and its rigid ideas of Right and Wrong is itself the bad thing.  Crowley is too good for Heaven, and was punished for it, but under all the angst and pain and feelings of hurt and betrayal, he’s the best of all of them after all.

That’s a compelling story.  There’s a reason we keep telling it.  The conflict between kindness and Moral Authority, the idea that maybe the people in charge are the ones who’re wrong and the people they’ve rejected are both victim and hero all at once--yeah.  There’s a lot there to connect with, and I wouldn’t want to take it away from anyone.  But the compelling story I want, for me, is different.

I look at Crowley and I want a story about someone who absolutely has the capacity for cruelty and disseminating evil into the world.  Somebody who’s actually really skilled at it, even if all he does is create opportunities, and humans themselves just keep living down to and even surpassing his expectations.  Somebody who enjoys it, even.  Maybe he was unfairly labeled and tossed out of heaven to begin with, but he’s embraced what he was given.  He’s thrived.  He is, legitimately, a bad person.

And he tries to save the world anyway.

He loves Aziraphale.  He helps save the entire world.  Scared and desperate and determined and devoted, he drives through a wall of fire for the sake of something other than himself.  He likes humans, their cleverness, their complexities, the talent they have for doing the same sort of evil he does himself, the talent they have for doing the exact opposite.  He cares.

It’s not a story about someone who was always secretly good even though they tried to convince the whole world and themself that they weren’t.  It’s a story about someone who, despite being legitimately bad in so many ways, still has the capacity to be good anyway.  It’s not about redemption, or about what Heaven thinks or judges or wants.  It’s about free will.  However terrible you are or were or have the ability to be, you can still choose to do a good thing.  You can still love.  You can still be loved in return.

And I think that matters.

[sinnhelmingr]

aloe, belladonna, fern, sage for DS Hel // @royal-dragonslayer-ornstein​​

ALOE : how does your muse handle grief ?

Honestly? Very, very differently from how others seem to process it. Especially when younger, given her life being built around the tending of the dead and that in their dark rest they know peace. For a long while, Hel saw no reason for lamenting death, knowing what lay beyond, though she understood it hurt others to have their time with a loved one cut short. This actually bit her in the ass at one point in an ask with a Gwynevere in that she got chewed out for not showing due contrition over the loss of others.

It took forging many bonds in the world beyond that she began to understand grief -- especially, I think, at the loss of Artorias. His death was meaningless, and cruel, and wholly avoidable, and there was nothing to celebrate in his passing. Lost to the Dark, there was surely no peace for him. I think that cut her the most deeply at first, and the impact his death had on those he left behind. It was only later on, when alone to think on it of her own accord, that she registered she missed him, and she wished he had come back after all, and that was her first brush with personal grief.

Even so, it has been fleeting in her life. She’s more likely to echo it as per decorum than truly feel it. When Gwyn died, she was more upset for his children than the loss of the king. She grieved that the king never appreciated his youngest as she should have been appreciated, that he never made amends with his firstborn, that he pushed such responsibility onto his already struggling eldest daughter. She grieved his failings and their impact, not his death, a secret she keeps close to the chest knowing how further deified the godfather has become in the centuries since.

I think this silent sense of grief for lives unlived deepens once she takes on Nito’s dominion and is further separated from others. Others will die, in time, god and human, king and beggar, all passing into what is now her keeping -- but she never will. She will stand and watch all things fall, and in the dark of the grave all will be reunited. Her grief is exhausting then, to watch old friends enter her dominion without a word, to see children she once doted upon be broken and put out of their misery during the final sputters of the light. In its final form, her grief is unexpressed but it is powerful, and she presses on because someone must when the rest are gone.

That said, at it’s deepest, Hel is seen to express her grief violently. For a brief period in the story, she’s openly gunning for the Undead after they kill Nito, pulled back from claiming them permanently only by their own undying nature and the firm rebuke of the Dark Sun. In turn, the loss of her beloved, even though they had been separated for at least a few decades, is expressed in the fact she’s hunting members of the Church of the Deep for sport. Just a widow and her scythe, demanding blood black as ichor for divine blood as if it can ever measure up. 

BELLADONNA : how does your muse respond to silence ? do they take comfort in soundlessness , or seek to fill the void with noise ? 

It depends on the situation, honestly! Silence is sort of the resting state of her home, where ones duties as a servant of the Graves should be done peacefully and with care taken not to disturb the dead. This manifests in a lack of light and treating the deceased with a sort of hushed reverence so their rest will be as comfortable as possible. The Fenito keep their work sacrosanct, though there are certain regions within their Lord’s dominion where the dead do not reach where japery and more open fraternization is encouraged. Even so, some of her siblings prefer to keep their silences, and so Hel is always comfortable with it. Silence, when comfortable or sacred, feels like home to her, and so she cherishes it.

However, she’s well aware that is the way of the Graves, and that the world outside is not beholden to such practices. Sometimes silences can be downright eerie even to her, a mark of the Darkness, a reminder of how far the splendor of a city has fallen. It can be an omen of violence past or present, or a mystery best left unpursued. In those moments, she might retreat from perceived threat as quietly as possible, or fill the still air with song or some other distraction from empty halls and paths. 

In the good old days, especially, she sought to fill silences, eager to ask questions and make merry and in some way belong to the world of Light and all its decadence. Laughter was her calling card then, and fast-moving feet as she fled from whatever innocent mischief she wrought in Gwyn’s hall. Yet she loved more than anything to make those around her join in her mirth, whether by word or deed, and so she coveted the sound of other voices, of approval in her actions.

FERN : does your muse believe in magic or cosmic forces , or are they more likely to think their life is ultimately a matter of their own control ? 

Magic is real and her dearest companion is a master of the craft. There are energies across all levels of the world which lend themself to those dedicated to their pursuit, and Hel thinks that’s actually pretty neat. Except for when it, like, drives the Paledrake mad or causes women to go missing in the night or -- Okay, maybe magic is far more a neutral force in this world. Neutral in that it falls to the wielder to decide what to do with it, rather than magic defining the user as some assume.

Hel is a staunch believer in accountability and the power of personal decision. be it in magic or life. She has, in the flow of the age, seen a lot of people do terrible things and then blame it on tradition, on necessity, on doing wrong for the right reasons. Perhaps due to her morality having developed separately from most surface-dwellers, she is very against the end justifies the means. Honestly the only reason she didn’t pull back from the plot to keep the flame burning sooner was just because the Undead needed to be dealt with, and at least this way the curse served some purpose. Notably, the second others spoke of using a living child as kindling she balked and abandoned everything she loved and called home after the loss of her Lord.

You can justify your choices through the Flame, through Gwyn, through your Covenant, through your orders, but at the end, all are left with how far they chose to go in that pursuit, and in that they must reflect and, if finally able to assert themself as more than pawn, atone. You cannot blame any force or power for personal failing, no matter if it might help you sleep at night -- or so Hel sees it.

SAGE : what is your muse’s legacy ? what do they want to be remembered for & what might they actually be remembered for ?

There’s actually a little headcanon title I gave Hel that really sums it up in certain time periods. Lunar Shadow -- that is, the shadow cast by the moon as depicted by Gwyndolin. She is the shade and mystery that clings fast to Luna in a lonely sky, the reflection of her will and power. Hel is never her lover’s pawn the way others accuse her, as shown in that she’s willing to butt heads with Gwyndolin on certain facets of the plan and her place in it, but she is inextricably linked to her all the same. Many will remember her as ally and acolyte of the Holy City in its twilight, bound to its cause like marriage vows.

In the golden age, however, she was the Mourning Princess, grey-clad and dust-soaked, a death that was both fair and welcoming. Others cossetted the strange creature, looked to her for amusement she, as already outlined, was all too willing to provide. Many godkin who fled will remember her for that, her good nature and sharp tongue, and a generous nature that adored even the most wretched creature that slithered across her host’s hall. The ending that most write is that she’s still in that city today, entangled in the arms and scaled limbs of that which she loved most dearly -- and for a time, they are not wrong.

Time shifts, however. In a far flung future, her Lord has been forgotten by all but her siblings, and she has risen to take Nito’s place. She’s revered as a goddess of death, Death-Who-Walks among the inhabitants of some far-flung land, black-clad and with a voice like song, ever-watchful. But Gods rise anew, in a land of snow and moonlight, and she is Queen, she is Beloved, she is the future of a people she never quite belonged to, the silk to glove her patron’s iron will. Her statues stand in the courtyards and palace, commissioned by one who loves her and wanted to depict what she saw as beauty. These stand even after that love has faded into opposition. And after her lover is gone, she is Avenger, Warrior, the Bane of heretics.

What I’m getting at here is that Hel’s legacy is different things to different people, from a stately queen of the dead to a curiosity in the eyes of gods. She’s the widow and divorcee depending on whose record you follow in her love life, and she’s both the hunter of heretics who spites the Church of the Deep and the vocal defender of a certain Prince’s choice to damn the Flame. She can’t really be neatly divided into simple lore because so much of what she is seems contradictory. That’s perfectly valid, too, as many that will be reduced to simple legacies were so much more than a condensed story as well.

All Hel wants, really, after she leaves the Land of Lord’s behind once there is no one left to tether here there, is to be remembered as someone who tried for others. Someone who fought for more than the legacy of a fool and the flame he coveted, someone who was able to see the bigger picture and hopefully leave an impact through her words and actions. But then, after all her life was over the extended age, I think the most she hopes for is to be forgotten and allowed to slip safely out of the narrative to make her own somewhere in the growing Dark.

[lilithsgayadoptednephew]

Holy Hands

Fandoms: Shall We Date?: Obey Me!   Not Rated Graphic Depictions Of Violence F/M, Other Complete Work

Chapter List

Chapter 41

MCs face went white.

Start over? As in kill them all?

"Y-you can't do that. We all still live down there we...we have lives and jobs and…" they realized He was no longer listening. They balled their fists. "You have no right!"

"No right?" He raised his head but didn't turn around. "I am the creator of your world child, I am the only one with a right." He spoke with no anger in his voice. Only understanding. MC pressed harder.

"I don't think you are."

"You think I'm not your creator? Then tell me who made you."

They thought for a moment, technically it was their mother, but not really. She birthed them, and she tried hard to mold them into exactly what she wanted, but in the end she failed. They'd taken Acacia and run away, building their own life. That was their answer.

"I did." They said soundly. Lucifer looked at them out of the corner of his eye. How could they just stand there and say things to Him ? Why was he too weak to?

"Really?" He said softly. "Then who made me?" That was a more difficult question. If He wasn't god then someone made him. They looked at the specter and couldn't bring themself to believe He was god. They'd never believed in god before. He was a figure created by man to explain things, to affirm their morals, to send their prayers to.

Perhaps the thoughts and beliefs of the humans were so real that they created Him. If that were the case then the answer would be the same.

"I did." They said again, softer this time. Lucifer almost cried from embarrassment, what the everloving fuck was the human talking about? But He just hummed in thought.

"Well child, if you made me and you made you...wouldn't that make you God?" He asked. They could tell the question was meant to trap them, to show them how silly their logic was, but they didn't see the flaw. They just doubled down.

"Yes it would." That seemed to throw Him , as much as one could throw a deity. He thought for a long moment.

While he paused, MC crouched beside the uncharacteristically upset Lucifer.

"You good?"

" No " was his only haunted response.

"Yeah I figured."

"How do you...and I can't…" his words came in heavy panicked pants. MC seemed to understand regardless.

"Yeah you're kinda struggling, but that's normal cause this is traumatic." They shrugged and stood again at His address.

Traumatic?

How were they not feeling the guilt? The oppressive feeling that you've betrayed someone who loved you unconditionally? How were they unaffected? Perhaps being near his father was harsher on him because he used to be an angel.

"Alright child," the many voices spoke. "You are mistaken, but I forgive you for that."

"Mistaken?" They asked. "About you not having the right to destroy my home?"

"I will make the Earth again, I will make it better. You are mistaken about many things."

"What if I can prove it?" They shot back. He turned slightly but said nothing. "I can prove you don't have the right because I can prove you didn't make me." They straightened their posture and steeled their resolve, if they were going to make this work they had to be thorough. He chuckled.

"How do you plan to do that?" His tone wasn't harsh, just mirthful, He found MC funny.

"I have a bet for you." They said carefully. It was risky to bank off the personality of Lucifer to get a read on God, but it's the only comparison they could really draw from. A God has to be at least a little proud, would He rise to the challenge?

"Alright, what are the terms of this bet?" His tone slipped so imperceptibly a mortal couldn't notice, well, a mortal who didn't already know that tone from His son. The tone of slight condescension. They were right, now they had Him.

"If you win I'll leave, Lucifer and his brothers will stay here with you. They will never question you again. You can remake Earth however you please with your son's by your side." They said methodically.

"Excuse me?!" Lucifer looked up at them with a murderous expression. They dare sell his and his brothers lives for a stupid bet? They pet his hair lightly, not taking their eyes off his father. A silent promise that they knew what they were doing, a plea to trust them.

"My son's back home without question?" He repeated. "That's worth more than you know...and what do you ask for in return?"

"If I win I want the Devildom to be given back to the demons, I want the earth left as it is and…" they'd only asked for things to go back to how they were. They were risking a lot so they wanted to ask for something selfish, something just for them. "And I want to live with my family... forever." They finished.

He pondered the terms. He was willing to risk his earth project, but making them immortal could pose some issues. Especially since He knew their "family" encompassed both the brothers and their human sister. He'd have to make her immortal as well.

In the end it wasn't even a risk, He couldn't lose a bet with a human. He'd made them, sculpted them from the soil and given them life. There was nothing they could do or say that He didn't know.

"I agree to your terms. What is your 'bet'?"

Now was the determining moment, they had to make this as clear as possible.

"Would you say everything you make loves you?" They asked. They knew where they were going, they just had to bait Him.

"Nothing has reason not to love me." He was deceptively humble.

"If you made someone, they love you no matter what. Just look how Lucifer cowers after he disappointed you."

Lucifer did not appreciate MC using him as an example, but he held his contempt in. It was obvious whatever they were doing was delicate.

"You must speak franky child, no more questions."

"I bet you can't make me love you." They said coldly.

Silence.

He said nothing as he pondered the declaration. Their heart hammered heavily in their chest. Whether He made them or not, He could squash them like a bug.

"When I gave you your first breath, you cried." He said. "I've seen many children cry, but it always breaks my heart. It still breaks my heart when you cry."

They nodded.

"When you left your mother I thought of sending you a guardian angel, but you just seemed to be your own. You guarded your sister."

They nodded again.

"You do love me, how could you not after all I've done for you?"

They closed their eyes and thought of Him. Thought of what He'd said. They searched themself honestly, He would know if they lied.

They found no fondness, no love for this stranger. They opened their eyes and He already knew what they found.

"How selfish of you." He said sadly.

"I know I'm a broken record on this" they crossed their arms loosely, "but I don't owe you, no matter what you've done."

They took a step forward.

"You love me though" they said accusingly. "Your statements reveal you pretty obviously hold love for me, I think that further proves my point."

He said nothing.

"I win"

He said nothing.

The ground beneath them opened and they dropped in the blink of an eye. There was a moment, a heartstopping moment, where Lucifer was an angel again. Plummeting helplessly away from his home. Then he was back, in the present he was a different man, a demon who could save himself. He had wings.

MC did not.

It took no thought, he spread his wings and caught the air like a parachute. His hands reached for MC and pulled them away from the fall.

He lowered them to the ground and set them down gently.

Looking down to earth from the Celestial Realm, he didn't feel dizzy from the height. He knew he could fly, he could save himself and anyone else who might fall. It was so simple. He was confused how he'd ever been afraid to begin with.

MC looked up and saw the hole they fell through closing up.

They'd won.

[eulerami]

ultimate nacho: ALL THE Qs for the handsomest man 8)

YES thank you, and again:

THIS WAS HELL TO FORMAT

Do they sleep with a stuffed animal? If they have multiple, who’s the favorite?

No, he doesn’t. I doubt he has since he was maybe 6.

Can they take care of a plant? What about a pet? What about a child?

His house is full of plants in SR1, and in SR2 he does have them at his permanent residence in the Red Light district. Just a bamboo here or there, or something. A fern. He can care for a pet, and has his English bulldog César, whom is very well-trained, spoiled rotten, and well socialized.

As for children–no. I can’t picture Nacho ever being a parent, or even babysitting. Not because he dislikes kids, but because he would just plop them down in front of an Xbox for 15 hours and let them eat junk.

Or, say, “Ey chiquillos, wanna’ go burn some shit??? That’s what ya’ll like to do, right???”

Ask them to describe their love interest.

“My pececito–brown eyes, hair like this,” he gestures, parting his own hair behind his ears, “honey-colored, always everywhere. Smile’s a little broken, kinda’ shy, but it’s the warmest thing. Won’t let nobody see. Thinks I don’t, but I do.”

Do they look good in red?

Absolutely. He actually looks horrible in purple and never stops complaining about it.

The Saints leader that wears Earth Tones; terrible.

Speech! Speech! Speech! Speech! Will they give one, and what about?

He gives a speech whenever it’s necessary to pull the Saints together for a MO. He tends to be fairly quiet, and is accustomed to doing things himself. He likes to get to know people individually, to keep it more personal, so a huge speech is rarely needed.

When he does, though, it’s definitely for a full assault, which would require everyone to be on thesame page at the same time–and quickly.

Who will they take advice from, no matter what it is? Who won’t they take advice from, no matter what it is?

I feel like he would take advice from everyone, really; his ear is alwaysopen to some extent. However, the only two characters that he would infallibly listen to advice from is Julius and Troy.

For both games, the character he absolutely would not listen to advice from is Johnny, lol.

Describe them in three words. Now let them describe themself in three words.

Humble, hard-working, passionate.

“Awesome, sexy, badass”  

Do complex puzzles intrigue or frustrate them?

Intriguing if he’s interested. Otherwise he gets frustrated. (I feel like he kicks ass at math???)

Do they empathize with non-sentient things (dolls, plants, books…)?

Oh yes, but only to make people smile, really. He’ll baby-talk his car when it gets a boo-boo. The type that would call inanimate things “this one,” “this guy” when referencing a thing. Bumps into a table, swears at it, monologues about how hurt he is by the offense–”I thought we had something special,” puts on the drama, etc. He’s a dork.

He starts doing this because, well, Troy does it too, and it makes him laugh. He picked up on those tendencies.  

What age do they most want to be right now?

The one he is. He’s very present-minded.

They’ve won the lottery. Spend, or save?

Save it all. Every dime. He was homeless a long time, so those behaviors don’t stop.

Do they like romance in the books they read (or in the book they’re in)?

He loves romance, yes. The cheesier, the better. I think romance inherently comes with the territory when your first language is Spanish. (Seriously, could get cursed up and down into oblivion and it’ll still sound good.)  

Name one thing their parents taught them.

“Don’t take any shit.”

Would they agree with the term ‘guilty pleasure’? Do they have any?

I Think he would. Sitting at home watching B-side horror movies definitely would count toward that, or soap operas, which he does.

What would they consider a waste of time– other than school or work?

Anything that doesn’t actively work toward an immediate goal, if it’s business-related, or anything that isn’t fun.

Those are Nacho’s two settings–is it work related? If so, get it done well, and quick. If not, it should be fun, otherwise, fuck off to something fun.

If money wasn’t a limit, what would they wear?

His outfit wouldn’t change. He’s reserved in clothing; comfort is important, as well as color and patterns. He might buy a nice pair of shoes, though. Closet full of Timberlands.

Do they like children?

He does, but in the older sibling/irresponsible uncle kind of way. I feel like he’d just be like “they’re kids,” and that’d be it.

Kissing: tongue or no tongue?

Yeahhhhhh uh, he’s a french kisser, for sure. Like, yeah. If it’s a quick peck, it’s still stupidly passionate–hold the face, take the waist, whole nine yards. He’s a huge romantic.

Do they study before tests? Practice before job interviews?

He’d study, and he’s probably practiced before an interview when he was younger. He’s never actually been on an official job interview, though.

More like a “hey you wanna make a couple extra bucks?” kind of situation.

What do they like that nobody else does?

He likes to draw and go fast. He thinks nobody else likes that. (Til he meets dumbass, anyway.)

What would it take for them to break up with someone? What would be the last straw?

You find out they’re a cop, I mean, probably betrayal. What he considers betrayal depends.

Do they like being called pet names? Do they call other people pet names? What’s their go-to?

Yeah he does; and he definitely calls other people pet names or general names, he very rarely uses their first name unless it’s more formal, authoritative, or direct. Güey, vato. Lol, or he finds a feature about the individual that he emphasizes.

Stability or novelty?

Depends on what it is. Stability in home, novelty in experiences.  

Honesty or charity?

Both

Safety or possibility?

Possibility

Talent or effort?

Effort

Forgiveness or vengeance (or…)?

It depends on the situation.

Would they date a fixer-upper?

Notsure if he’d know what that means. He goes after who he’s interested in, and usually the faults are part of the allure. He never wants to shape anyone into anything. He likes them just as they are.

He’d be upset if they changed, honestly.

What recurring dreams do they have?

Sunsets, the desert. Going fast.

What would they do if they knew it would be forgiven?

I don’t think the question of forgiveness is on his mind. It’s all or nothing with that sort of thing; either he does something because he thinks it must be done, or he doesn’t.

Nacho has a very strong set of personalized morals, they’re complex. So…this question is a bit of a n/a.

[mono-red-menace]

need to work on admitting to myself that i'm just Some Girl and not applying my inflated black and white morality to myself like.

i'm just this horrible innately wretched being in my mind. if i'm happy and cute there must be some ulterior motive in my mind like i must be trying to do something bad. if i make someone mad, well of course i did im evil and bad i'm a monster of course i upset them! i cant do something perfect well of course i cant i'm a horrible monster to the core nothing i can be will be perfect because i'm horrible to the core.

but like.

in. in my mind.

is the thing.

all of these things are

in my mind.

when i'm happy and cute i'm just. happy and cute, i'm a person. just because i've been like. made to feel like my happiness is somehow predatory doesn't mean it. Is. i'm Some Girl. just A Person. not a monster.

and if i upset someone it's not because i Intended to harm them, it's not like im this Horrible Abusive Monster who Loooves to hurt people but tries to lie to itself that it Haaates hurting people because uh. fuck if i no. i'm just. a person with horrible self image issues instilled by a horrible childhood of constantly blaming herself for everything because of a father who constantly berated her and called her horrible things and made it seem like she was evil for just existing despite being a Literal Child. Just Some Girl. i'm just Some Girl.

and when i don't do things perfectly it's not because i'm incapable it's not because im a fraud it's not because all i know how to do is steal and distort and hurt. when i make something and it sucks or i fail at something or when i can't retain information it's not because of these things i've been made to believe. i'm just. Some Girl. i'm not some prodigy who is going to be the first person in our family to make something of themself and i'm not some wretched worthless fake, fools gold given to a family in need. i'm just. a Girl. who is allowed to make mistakes because i'm not a god and not a monster. just. a girl.

and dreaming constantly of a life i could live without taking the steps because i'm scared of messing it up because i see myself as a monster who is Undeserving of happiness, who will inevitably ruin it because it's in her nature, dreaming endlessly of being successful and loved, for people to look at her art and go "i like this!" even if it's just a few. because. like. how are you going to achieve that if all you do is dream it and cry? you're Some Girl.

every artist was just Some Boy or Some Girl. and even after they were famous, the fact remains. we're humans. everyone fails and everyone wins. and. i need to admit to myself that a reason i don't improve is because i'm unwilling to admit to myself that i'm. a person.

i'll probably never be everything i want to be, i'll probably never be there in front of hundreds of people, recorded for millions more, explaining my art and feeling the recognition i feel i deserve because why wouldn't i? after so long of being made to feel bad why can't i feel happy about that? you know? but like.

i'm. Some. Girl. who doesn't have the money and time to put into her joys. who is in constant pain, exhausted from work. suffering and just. scared to be anything less than perfect because anything less than perfect proves she's a monster to the words in her head drilled in there by others.

scared to turn into her father, scared she'll do to others what has been done to her. scared she only has capacity to bring harm, ignoring the times when she doesn't. scared of her failures but ignores her victories, feels any love shown to her is a mistake and any hate given to her is deserved.

and too scared to let go of being a monster because what would she have left then

yk?

anyways

this is dumb and melodramatic.

but that's me! :)

not a bad thing to be a little melodramatic when you're sad. as long as you don't throw it out there as a "woe is me i'm hopeless and bad and evil" like

i mean this is really bad writing i'm sad to admit but it's better me write my feelings in my goofy over-dramatic "i wish i was an artist" way but present them as Normal to myself. rather than just keep it inside myself and letting my negative voice take the reins.

sometimes i have to write it out and when i write something in that negative voice, either erase it and correct it directly, or correct it later on.

i always present any negative self thought as exactly that, Thought.

my intention might get lost a bit sometimes, but i try to write things like "i see myself as a monster" rather than "i am a monster," unless, through earlier context it can be assumed i only believe this and it's not true, though sometimes i leave the context in my mind

basically this is my silly way-too-verbose way of saying.

yeah i'm good i write my vents to work out the emotions and feel catharsis, i learned a Little bit from cbt and dbt lmao

[c-is-for-circinate]

I've been trying to figure out why I dont like Caduceus and your last meta reply got me closer to figuring it out. Like, I've been trying to like him, or at least figure why I dont, and describing him as 'a good person who doesnt have the self awareness to realize hes a jerk' I think got close to my issue with him, so thanks for the Good Meta

This is in response to this post, which I know some people agreed with very strongly and which made some other people very upset.  I’m glad it clicked with you, at least, and that it helped clarify some Cad stuff for you!

I think that a very big thing about Taliesin’s characters across the board, for me, is how intensely judgy they have the capacity to be.  In many ways, Caduceus is less judgmental than Percy or Molly, which is a fascinating thing to think about.  And I have found that fascinating since pretty much my second or third episode of Critical Role, because so much of that judgment tends to be couched in, ‘I judge you for not accepting other people the way I think you should’.  Percy loves Keyleth but also thinks she’s naive, too idealistic about what people ought to be rather than acknowledging and planning for the flaws he’s sure he knows they have.  Molly dresses and talks and walks and presents himself in such a flamboyant way specifically to elicit reactions, specifically so he can decide who to write off completely and not worry about any more.  In both cases it’s this super-interesting, incredibly relatable picture of a person who judges other people for their judgments.  

Because Critical Role is such a long-form show, we got to see Percy be proven right and be proven wrong, we got to see him smug and we got to see him humble, and we got to see a lot of different angles on both his standards (what other people ought to be doing) and his stubbornness (how ready he was to dismiss people who didn’t meet them).  Because we lost Molly so early, we only really got to start scratching the surface of his assumptions and certainties, and one of my biggest regrets is that we didn’t get to explore them so much more.  In both cases, that stubborn sureness--I know how the world works, better than anybody around me--was one of my favorite parts of the character.  It’s such an interesting flaw, because it wasn’t always detrimental.  Both Percy and Molly were often right, or at least they acted in line with their assumptions and the universe responded how they expected, and the team benefited from it.  Both of them had a certain amount of ‘and it’s our job to be decent to other people’ as part of that worldview, which really helped in making them likable.  Both of them made sense, which led to the (for me) really great cognitive experience of, “okay, I agree with this character, but also I don’t think they’re the ultimate authority they believe themself to be!  but I do think they’re right!  but maybe they shouldn’t be so sure they’re right!”  I find internal narrative conflict like that extremely compelling, and in particular the exploration of being judgmental about other people’s judgment resonates with me a lot.

So I’ve been waiting for cracks and criticisms with Caduceus, because I suspected from very early on that he, too, would be Extremely Sure He Understands How the World Works At All Times.  I have been looking for the places he Knows He’s Right, and I’ve been eating them up.

Cad’s certainties are completely different than Percy’s and Molly’s, but once again, it’s incredibly difficult to say he’s wrong.  He believes in fate--well, if you declare that everything that happens was supposed to happen, how is it ever possible to say he’s wrong?  He believes Melora is watching and guiding and wants for him to do things--it’s D&D, she literally is watching (and if she happens to be a lot less invested in any specific outcome than Caduceus thinks, she’s not about to tell him so).  He believes he has a job, has a purpose.  Because it’s D&D, because it’s a story, because the story needs to go places and as the PCs it’s their job to do things to get there, on a very real meta level he’s literally correct.  

He thinks that his job and his purpose is to help people--and how can we say he’s wrong?  How can we say he shouldn’t try to be a good person, try to help?  And he’s doing his best, and his best so often does help, and when it doesn’t, then it’s not his fault because there are other circumstances.  It’s almost impossible to argue with that.  Objectively, Caduceus is doing his best.  Objectively, in many cases it is helpful.

And yet, that doesn’t mean that Caduceus objectively knows the best way to help in every situation--which even he readily admits.  It doesn’t mean Caduceus necessarily knows the “best” way to help even in the situations where he is helpful.

Because right, the other thing about D&D is, Caduceus fundamentally cannot be the Sole Correct Authority on Everything, no matter how much sense his sureness makes.  He literally can’t be, because Tal is one of eight people at that table, and he’s not the one running the world.  He can be absolutely justified in being mad at Nott, which he absolutely is, and it still isn’t a universal truth that Caduceus Is Right and Nott Is Wrong.  There are no universal truths at that table.  Not even Matt has universal truths, not about what characters think or feel or do, not about moral absolutism.

(I’m someone who gets really twitchy around people who are Extremely Sure.  I’ve known a disproportionate number of them in real life, and I’ve got very specific instinctive skills for not pissing them off that I occasionally wish I hadn’t had to develop.  Part of turning from a conflict-averse 20-year-old into a grown-ass adult on my part has involved learning not to automatically agree that the universe must work a certain way, just because a very smart, very sure person who makes sense says so.  Part of it’s involved learning not to be that very sure person myself.  

I think I grab at moments when Caduceus very clearly isn’t 100% correct because of that.  I love the fact that, in Critical Role, we have this multi-layered, many-voiced story proving that even if a character is right, they’re not necessarily the bearer of Objective Universal Truth.  Rather than a story where it feels like the author and the universe are trying to make me agree with one person, it’s a story where a character can be right and not right from a thousand different directions at the same time.  (Which, if nothing else, makes the story and the character feel so much safer to me.))

Caduceus is a little bit passive-aggressive sometimes, going back to Caduceus and Nott and the original discussion of that other post.  And, right, he wants to avoid conflict within the group so he doesn’t make a big deal out of certain things, and just like all of his opinions, it’s hard to say he’s wrong in that.  And he has every right and reason and justification for having emotions about some of the many very big things that have happened to him lately.  He’s right (he’s not wrong) about a lot of things.  He’s actually really good about recusing himself from situations where he doesn’t have the background or knowledge to be right at least to his own standards.

The thing that has me calling Caduceus a little childish is that he’s so utterly disinclined to acknowledge the possibility of nuance.  He knows how to help Fjord (he’s decided that he knows how to help Fjord), so he does.  He doesn’t know how to help Nott, so he doesn’t.  We’ve never seen him take so much as a moment to consider whether or not he’s right in his assessment of his ability to help in either case.  And yeah, to me that does feel a little immature.  It’s not that he’s got a philosophy and he sticks to it, it’s that he lacks the self-awareness to even acknowledge the blind spots it might give him, let alone try to amend them.

And that’s okay.  Acknowledging that Caduceus might possibly be a little bit of a hypocrite, a little judgy, a little wrong in his mental image of the universe and his place in it, makes him so much more interesting.  It makes him a person.  Not an infallible mouthpiece from God; not a perfect sage holding all the wisdom of the ages.  He’s a good person, trying to do his best.  

He’s a good character, because he’s an examination of how all these traits both hinder and sometimes help his attempts to be a good person.  Stubborn certainty got the M9 up on their feet after Yasha left, comforted Fjord away from U’kotoa, saved a tribe of giants.  Caduceus is multifaceted, and the game is multifaceted, and the very same characteristics can be great in one situation and a real problem in another, just like life.