#I won’t put this in the ship tag bc I only briefly touch on it LOL but I will tag

[rosewatergrapefruit]

(Diff anon) I just wanted to join in on the halloween beat down discussion real quick because you got me thinking a lot lol! I think a problem this fandom has a little bit (and I’m totally guilty too!) is ignoring Daniel’s trauma? I love Johnny, like he’s totally one of my favourite characters, but I have just realised some people (me also!) treat him like “little baby who never did anything wrong 🥺” a bit TOO much sometimes? I now get that Kreese manipulated and eventually attacked him, and that’s horrible and traumatising, but it doesn’t mean Daniel deserved what happened to him, or made it any less traumatising for him? Do you know what I mean? Certain people will fight to the death trying to make it look like Daniel instigated it, but in reality, like in the real world, pouring water one someone’s head as a little bit of petty revenge for months of harassment and violence really isn’t worthy of being beaten unconscious? I think it can both be true that Johnny was manipulated by Kreese and isn’t a bad guy, AND what he did to Daniel was extremely cruel and unwarranted? It wasn’t just like... one mutual fight, like if it had have been the one incident at the beach it would have been a totally different story, but to be repeatedly violently attacked for no real substantial reason? People can say “oh Daniel was a little asshole too” until they’re blue in the face lol, but it doesn’t change the fact that Johnny not just bullied him, but the bullying was violent and probably terrifying, no one can tell me they can look at the state of Daniel when he threw away his bike and was crying and obviously distressed that this was “pull her pig tails because you like her” teasing, I think at time people (also me) start to think there was a mutual teasing/banter, or that Daniel enjoyed the attention to some extent and I don’t think that’s really true? I absolutely think it could be interpreted as Johnny having feelings of some kind for Daniel which he took out on him through violence, but that’s incredibly sad for everyone involved, and in reality is not sexy or cute? And although I give everyone the absolute right to write as much young!Lawrusso fanfiction as they want where it’s sexy and cute, like it’s not hurting anyone so do whatever, I think maybe we should also be aware that in the real world this wouldn’t be the case if you know what I mean? I don’t know what I’m even saying! Basically, although Kreese told Johnny to do it etc, Daniel being harassed, publicly humiliated, beaten unconscious, thrown off a cliff/hill whatever you want to call it on his bike, and having his knee destroyed, on top of months of fear, unfortunately means that irrespective of Johnny’s peer pressure or influence from Kreese to do certain thing, or that his step dad was a bully toward him, did not give him a right to inflict this on Daniel, and what Johnny did to him was extremely cruel. Again, I LOVE Johnny, I feel bad even saying all this about him because I love him so much lol, and I don’t think he is evil or even a bad guy by any means, but his reasons aren’t excuses, and I think maybe some people who ship them (me included!) could take a second to think of how frightening and confusing this bullying was for Daniel? Sorry sorry for the extreme long ask! You just got me thinking about this, I had never looked at it this way before and never considered this, and I don’t know, this is just my word vomit because I realised I never really considered Daniel’s end of it to the extent I did Johnny’s intentions if that makes sense? I was like “Johnny had his reasons so it’s not that bad” kind of? But that doesn’t change what if felt like from Daniel’s end! Sorry again for the long ask!

Hey anon, I totally get what you mean! I basically agree with everything you've written here, I think it's all about a balance between having empathy for Johnny and not excusing his actions.

And to be fair to yourself, the reason you probably hadn't thought so much about it all from daniel's pov is that, well, Cobra Kai is about Johnny. It's about deconstructing his side of the story and showing that everything was maybe not as it appeared, and that he was a more complex and vulnerable figure in high school than first met the eye. But also that as a premise works, imo, because it's so obvious from the Karate Kid that he's bullying Daniel. Yes I know there was a whole upswelling or whatever about how “Daniel was the real villain" but I think even then that was about extending understanding to Johnny, because, please. We've all watched the movie. They push the boy off a cliff.

In terms of his feelings toward Danny in hs...yeah now I dont see that as a pigtails thing at all, but (just speaking for myself here) I don't feel like I've seen that interpretation a lot? I feel like because of how fandom exists in 2021 most people are familiar with the whole "feelings toward other boys --> filtered through internalized homophobia --> violence" dynamic, and most HS fics I've read reflect that. But maybe there's a strong strain of that that I haven't seen, idk!

And yeah, I agree with you, I also love Johnny deeply (I love both of them!!), acknowledging that a character has done bad things does not mean you can't still sympathize with them/like them/want good things for them ETC.

I think part of what makes Cobra Kai strong is that it allows us to do all that with Johnny, while the show itself doesn't go as far to excuse his actions towards Daniel. It's good stuff.