#I think it fits what I'm going for with Harry more if his backstory contains more agency

[bonefall]

Hm what would Cinders (Sol’s mom) be in relation to Sol the trickster spirit guy possessing Harry? Would she be apart of Sol’s, or Harry’s backstory? Or yknow you could just completely scrap her whole part.

I kinda have a idea for Sol where he doesn’t necessarily lie but he does exaggerate/skew the truth to better manipulate those around him. And if he’s called out he’d say he technically didn’t lie, it’s everyone else’s faults for not looking into it more or assuming based on what he relayed to them.

He DOES have a mother who did give him up to twoleg folk but he doesn’t mention that the only reason she was the only source of food for her large litter was because her mate betrayed her, and she only gave them up because she couldn’t care for them anymore and thought that was for the best. I also image Harry is more-so just a kittypet who wanted a bit of spice in his life so that’s why he took up that deal, even more of a empty husky for Sol just to take over. And Cinders was actually Sol’s mom, Whispers was his dad but that was a long long time ago

In this rewrite, Cinders is Harry. Specifically, he lied about his mother abandoning him and his siblings to garner sympathy from Leafstar-- he was Cinders the whole time, and he didn't 'abandon' those kits.

The REAL story is that Harry (Cinders at the time) ended up in a relationship with the unnamed male, was saddled with kits they couldn't care for, and then the mate left. While Cinders was hunting, they came across Sol who took the form of a fish they couldn't catch.

Sol offered Cinders a bargain; it would offer them the change they wanted in life, they'd never be hungry, they'd have power... but it needed something first. Three sacrifices.

Either Harry only had two kits, or the third escaped... but in any case, they didn't feel like they had much to loose. The kits were starving anyway. They justified it all the way to Sol's mouth, but still needed one more. When Leafstar showed up to their doorstep with three kittens, Harry fabricated the lie to make her lower her guard so he could snatch the last sacrifice he needed.

He was foiled by that lucky patrol, and tagged along waiting for his chance.

Sol itself, I don't even think it actually needed the sacrifices. It just wanted to make sure that the vessel it was going to inhabit would be interesting. What better way to test Cinders/Harry than to play a little game?

And as for Sol's parents, I'm not sure if it ever had any. But it does see Midnight, Sharptooth, and Rock as siblings... so they could have had one? A long long time ago? But I plan for them to be downright ancient so it's moot either way, y'know?

[traincat]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was not Flash having an abusive father a retcon that happened many years later after his debut? I remember you ask about whatever Flash being a bully was a retcon too, so I wonder if its the same case for his father. Perhaps is the reason why MCU decided to avoid any hint that Flash' father might be abusive.

Okay, this is a little messy, but from my point of view the answer is yes and no, or rather, it’s kind of half a retcon, if that. It’s a retcon that, with a little connecting the dots, we can make not a retcon. A retcon, by technical definition, is a piece of canon that retroactively rewrites the continuity that came before it. “The Alicia Masters that Johnny Storm married was a Skrull all along!” is a retcon, because before that piece of information was introduced, the Alicia Masters that Johnny Storm married was just Alicia Masters, regular human woman. A piece of information that reveals something about a character���s backstory or circumstances that just never came up before but doesn’t actually contradict anything, on the other hand, is not a retcon. 

This... falls in between those two things.

First off, Harrison Thompson is in a total of 13 comic issues altogether. That’s really not a lot -- Flash himself is in 574 comics, according to the Marvel Wiki. Harrison Thompson’s first appearance is in the B story of Amazing Spider-Man #372, titled Punch... Counter-Punch, where Peter and Flash years later revisit their boxing max from Amazing Spider-Man #8, albeit in a much friendlier manner. Now, note that this is several hundred issues after Flash’s introduction to the pages of Spider-Man, during which his father has never been mentioned before in either positive or negative light. The boxing match is just window dressing for the real point of the story, though, which involves Flash encouraging Peter to engage with his parents, Richard and Mary Parker, who had at that point in canon seemingly returned from the dead/the gulag. (“Richard and Mary” were actually robots, but that part doesn’t matter here. I love that I get to write that sentence.) Flash then launches into a recollection of his own father, who he describes as serious, intelligent, uninterested in athletics, and disapproving of Flash’s own interests in sports and his average grades. When Peter asks if Flash made up with his own father, Flash says he died:

Now, we know this is not true -- Harrison Thompson appears in Untold Tales of Spider-Man #19, published in 1997, a good four years after Amazing Spider-Man #372. Untold Tales of Spider-Man is a series from the ‘90s that bulked out the content of Peter’s high school years, considering that he’s only in high school in the original Amazing Spider-Man run for a grand total of 28 issues, and focused on Peter, Betty Brant, and Peter’s high school classmates. It’s a series I mostly find boring, I’ll be entirely honest, although I like some of the Flash, Liz, and Betty content. Untold Tales of Spider-Man #19 is technically the first time Harrison Thompson actually physically appears in a Spider-Man scene, being present in the book instead of in another character’s recollection. 

Harrison Thompson here has been reinvented as a Forest Hills police officer who, in this issue at least, is portrayed as a generally friendly fellow. Literally two months after this was published, Spectacular Spider-Man #-1 was published. Written by J.M. “stories about child abuse” DeMatteis, it begged the following: “how can we add more childhood trauma to the Spider-Man cast?” and “fuck the police.”

This comic, which I believe is the third ever appearance of Harrison Thompson within Marvel comics although I might be missing another Untold Spider-Man bit, keeps Harrison Thompson as a cop, but whereas in Untold Spider-Man he seemed an okay enough guy, Spectacular Spider-Man #-1′s depiction of him is an abusive drunk who emotionally terrorizes his family and beats his son. 

So we’ve got a weird little evolution here from intellectual snob who in his son’s eyes looked down on him for not sharing his more cerebral interests -> seemingly genial neighborhood cop -> violently abusive father. Now the second two don’t actually rule each other out: Harrison Thompson could certainly have put on a good face for the community while abusing his family at home. This is, after all, not uncommon behavior for abusers, who can often keep up a very charming act within their larger communities. (J.M. DeMatteis writes a lot of abusive father stories, and he does it very well.) So it’s really only the first story that’s the problem, continuity-wise. 

The Marvel wiki lists Harrison’s appearance in Amazing Spider-Man #372 as a “false recollection”, which is, I think, an interesting way of putting it. Now I said this was in my opinion half a retcon at best, and I consider it that because of something I noted above: Harrison Thompson never actually physically appears in this issue. Flash talks about him, but the problem with that is a very simple characterization rule: characters lie. Almost every character in a large body of canon, at some point or another, for whatever reason, is going to lie. “False recollection” can mean a lot of things, and “lie to your best friend to encourage him to get close again with his own parents” and “say your dad is dead because you kind of wish he was” are not outside the realm of possibility. I think this would be a very different case if Harrison Thompson had physically appeared as Flash describes him initially on the page, or if the issue had even contained a proper flashback scene instead of Flash speaking over some vague images. But that’s not the case, and when all you have is one character’s words there’s always the chance that their recollections are either untrue or unreliable.

Now, I can make this messier. In Amazing Spider-Man #372, Flash tells Peter his dad died before Flash ever met Peter. This is complicated two ways: first, as established later by Untold Spider-Man #19, Peter had met Flash’s dad, so he would’ve known in ASM #372 that Flash’s dad couldn’t possibly have died before Peter and Flash ever met. (Flash would also have had to be very young, younger than he’s depicted even in ASM #372, for his dad to have died before he and Peter met.) Worse yet, in Webspinners #9, which also takes place when Peter and Flash are still in high school, Peter as Spider-Man witnesses, without Flash’s knowledge, an incident where Flash is being punished and verbally abused by his father. (It’s also implied he witnesses Harrison hitting Flash via sound effect, but that’s not directly on panel.)

Now, I never know what to feel about this Webspinners story, canonicity-wise. For one, I think it’s not the best characterization for Spider-Man to see anyone he knows, whether or not he especially likes them, being abused and to do nothing to halt that abuse, although that would be a much more complicated story that a three-parter about Peter accidentally ending up with three prom dates doesn’t really have room to cover. For another, it gives Peter a very intimate look at Flash’s personal life that would surely recontextualize some things for him, but of course none of that is reflected in the college years because those stories weren’t written with this incident in mind. Peter finding out about Flash’s abusive home life in high school is, for me, the bit that most shoddily fits in here, though we do know that by the time they’re in their late 20s Peter is aware of things:

(Venom (2011) #5)

So if we’re putting it all together, with the assumption that, in order to keep all of the canon here cohesive (a very difficult thing to do with any long-running superhero comic), we’d have to view the ASM #372 story under the light that not only was Flash lying, but he was lying badly, and Peter knew he was lying, and they were just not talking about it. It’s messy, sure, and it’s not perfect, but “one character is lying for an agenda, other character knows and doesn’t confront him over it” isn’t out of the realm of possibility, if I wanted to make that argument.

Ultimately, for me, here’s the thing: Harrison Thompson is present in 13 issues. That’s is such an incredibly small part of a huge body of canon, but 11 of those issues have huge consequences for Flash Thompson. The two issues before DeMatteis introduced Harrison Thompson as a violently abusive man are a recollection that could easily be a lie -- a shoddy one, admittedly, but people tell shoddy lies all the time, so why shouldn’t fictional characters -- and an issue that, while it does not portray him as an abusive father, it doesn’t contradict it, either. Everything after that is relatively consistent in depicting Flash’s father as abusive throughout his childhood. You could consider Spectacular Spider-Man #-1 and subsequent stories are a retcon of Amazing Spider-Man #372, but you could also noodle your way around into making it work within the body of canon as I have done above. It’s really up to how the individual reader here wants to look at it. And even if someone does choose to view it as a retcon, it’s not a big one; it changes almost nothing about the canon that existed beforehand where Flash Thompson isn’t concerned, and there’s nothing in his story up until that point that would explicitly rule out him being an abused child. I will say, between the two stories, “my dad and I never got along because he was too nerdy to understand my athletic passions” is pretty sorry competition for the latter backstory that was created for Flash, which does a lot to inform his past actions as a character, from his high school bully status to his military enlistment which, as the sliding timescale moves the decade the Spidey Fivesome were in college together forward, we can no longer attribute to the draft. It also offers him something in common with many of the other major members of Peter’s supporting cast: like Flash, Mary Jane and Harry were also abused by their fathers. (Who in Marvel comics wasn’t? Peter. Peter Parker was not.) 

All that aside, I doubt that when Spider-Man: Homecoming’s creative team was conceiving their version of Flash Thompson that they chose to omit any mention of his abusive father in homage to Amazing Spider-Man #372′s B story, especially after they reimagined Flash as a nerd himself. “If he were smarter, his father wouldn’t beat him” would become a, uh, troubling implication if anyone involved in the movie were to make that claim. Which they won’t, because I would bet a lot of money that they didn’t think about it that much. This is the film that cut any mention of Uncle Ben’s death because it would be a “downer” -- they weren’t going to introduce an abusive homelife for one of Peter’s classmates. And that’s not even my issue, as much as I appreciate The Amazing Spider-Man (2012)’s oblique reference in the hallway scene where Flash says “it feels better, right?” after Peter slams him against the lockers. Addressing Flash Thompson’s childhood isn’t something that’s going to make or break a Spider-Man adaptation for me, although ideally it’s something I would like to see handled with care and sympathy. My issue is that you have a character who, in the source material, has consistently been depicted as the victim of childhood abuse from 1997 onwards, and instead chose to make that character an affluent nerd and the butt of a joke that, if it had happened to the original Flash Thompson in high school, surely would have had serious consequences for him when Peter steals and wrecks his car. I just found it an uncomfortable, knowing Flash’s comics backstory. (And as someone who’s had their car stolen, I’m not exactly sure how grand theft auto is supposed to be funny.) I’m sure the movie could’ve shoved more sports car time in there some other way.