#I sympathize or empathize for those who lose them but I. Kind of don't care also?

[kelpiemomma]

Sometimes I think things are good and then I remember I can't recall the last time I felt genuine excitement about doing something in my future

[opinated-user]

SPOILERS for Across The Spider-Verse below, specifically the ending of it, people who have not seen the movie keep scrolling

It's really funny that Lily thinks people wouldn't like Hunter if he was black because fandom has lost their collective minds over Universe 42 Miles Morales aka The Prowler. There's redemption fic, there's fic shipping him with all kinds of people, there's reader x miles 42, there's cosplay, there's angsty fic where people sympathize with him, there's roleplaying blogs, fan made merch, fanart, fan edits, "Miles G. Morales needs a hug" is an AO3 tag, there's fic for him in multiple languages and the movie hasn't even been out for that long, he's got fan-made playlists...

Lily took over a decade to write one black character but that reluctance to sympathize with black people is far, FAR from a universal trait. Most people, upon seeing how dead inside alternate universe Miles is after losing his dad, instantly sympathized with him because it's so obvious that loss has just broken him. The flat affect, the thousand-yard stare, the refusal to empathize with others - this kid is very clearly not coping with loss well. Fandom response has been almost totally positive and caring. He's a teenage boy so adult fans are very "this poor kid" and teenagers are very "you don't understand, he's making bad choices but he's not a bad/irredeemable person". I have rarely seen people this united in wanting a character to be alright but even people who aren't super into him have said that they don't want him to die or get hurt in Beyond The Spider-Verse because, much as he presents a threat to our hero, he's a victim or circumstances and a product of his environment.

Even people who don't want him to have a redemption arc really applaud the ATSV team for writing a black villain with the same complexity, full backstory and depth as they do black heroes. Even people who want to see Spider-Man Miles kick Prowler Miles' ass do not dislike the angsty teen on the wrong side. Being black is not an automatically disliked or unlikeable trait.

Her saying "if Hunter was black, you'd dislike him" is not just wrong, it's the actual opposite of what we're seeing in fandom right now. When handed an angsty black boy we all instantly decided we wanted to protect him even as we gushed over how cool he is.

Lily's statement is projection. It says a lot more about her than it does about fandom, because she says that as if sympathizing with a black character is a rare thing in her mind.

And yeah, Lily, that is rare... for you. The rest of us aren't racist like that.

and you know why that is... simply put, because the spiderverse is a well written movie. it's a movie that treat it's characters with a lot of care and sympathy, so we as the audience can sympathize with them. being able to do that with most of the cast as black characters is not only to be expected, but just the norm. people like complex characters that aren't just one single note. LO literally can't understand that when she wants characters to be like that, she's in the minority. more people will always prefer a character that goes through arcs (both positive and negative), that evolves, that changes, than one that remains static. she absolutely can't grapple with that fact. i already explained before that there would be other issues, thematically speaking, if hunter was black so it was actually a good thing that he isn't and how much better those themes are represented by having Luz to be black too. but if the only difference of him was his race, literally nothing else about how he is written and treated by the narrative, the fandom would love him just the same. the only difference is that LO would then go out of her way to try to argue about how much better the show would be if he were a underage lesbian too. her misconceptions about fandom is what happens when you only have an skewed notion about fandom racism from a singular black person. by only learning through stitch and not any of the other black fans that have spoken about the subject, LO has come out with the idea that fandom is all inherently racist all the time and black characters (because we know she doesn't care about any other race) never receive any kind of attention, ever. so the best way to combat racism... is just to dislike white characters harder. which i hope i don't have to explain how useless that is. if the questions are, does fandom racism exist? have black character being treated unfairly compared with white ones? has fandom gone out of their way to treat not only characters, but also non white cast members, in cruel ways that didn't deserve at all? all of that is yes and that has been ignored for way too long. we also ignored for way too long how many times this racism came from the canon itself, by sidelining POC character with great potential (Finn, Poe and even Rose are example of this) or never given them a chance to shine at all. but things are getting better, precisely because of works like the spiderverse, and because black characters are being put at the front and center for more diverse stories that people are connecting to. this, this is how you actually combat fandom racism.

and all LO has to say is how much she hates this movie tried to be too artistic.

[beyondthetemples-ooc]

(Teen Titans T.erra thoughts, unfavorable and bitter. Turning reblogs off because I'm not here to discourse, just try putting a little bit of my Internal Conflict to bed for my own posterity.)

I finally figured out how to succinctly sum up the reason I'm still bitter towards T.erra. It only takes four little words:

"Cool motive. Still murder."

Approximately 20 years after seeing the Aftershock episodes the night they aired (because pt. I was the very first time I remember Seeing the End Live and Eagerly Awaiting Next Week's Episode), I watched it with my roomies tonight. Both parts, at least halfway at my behest because, while we normally only watch one episode, I told them "I want to get it over with."

My feelings on the T.erra story used to be a lot more pure.

(Pure vitriol, that is. When I was in elementary school, I used to sing the show's themesong with a modified line: "Never met a villain that they liked... EXCEPT T.ERRA!")

Some (some) of the Bastard-ness of what S|ade was doing to her escaped me as a child. I won't get into it now, but I grew up in an abusive household, and it kind of... didn't register as So Wrong to me? Just like "oh yeah, that's how authority figures treat kids." Indignant but not outright Horrific.

Tonight might actually be the first time I've watched the episode with a Mature Adult Understanding of how relationships with adults are Supposed to look like. Seeing it for the horror of removing autonomy especially. Or, trying to anyways. It's like Beast Boy said: She Always Had a Choice.

That doesn't change my feelings on the matter one bit.

After these episodes aired, I didn't rewatch them unless one of the other kids in the house wanted it. (My oldest younger sister in particular was always really fond of T.erra.) But I didn't like T.erra. I didn't like this story. It made me angry, it made me sad. Seeing Raven lose control has always been a kryptonite bullet to my hard-earned emotional stability. I watched pt. I at my best friend's house once and literally RAN around his house to burn off the emotional energy. Maybe I was yelling too. I was certainly rambling. Just... I've always had a Strong reaction to that.

So I've really only had an (admittedly acute) memory of seeing those episodes a handful of times and the very occasional, passing thought to dedicate to the show's rendition of a story that burns every bit as harshly in the comics, too.

I never really thought or talked about it unless someone else brought it up. I never really processed it. I knew what I felt on the matter and that was that.

A few years ago, I wound up talking (more to myself than whoever was trying to argue with me, it seemed) through all the reasons I don't think that whatever she went through EXCUSES HER BEHAVIOR. I very adamantly think there is NO excuse to betray your friends like that. I don't care WHAT situation you're in, betrayal is a conscious decision and maybe it's not well thought out, but when you make a choice, you get to own the consequences of your decision. When you hurt people with the things you do, you're responsible for that. You're the one at fault. You're the one who has to deal with it, and you're the one who has to bear the consequences.

The only reason I talked myself through that was because someone accused me of victim blaming, because I don't like T.erra. I actually hadn't even made one of my More Impassioned rants about her? I just wrote that I thought Malchior's betrayal had to sting Raven especially deeply when you consider that she'd already been stung by Terra half a season ago. And somebody came into my askbox like "Why do you hate T.erra?"

Cue an argument. A really pointless argument. You're not going to change my mind on her. I'm not missing anything. I can sympathize and empathize and feel all the pity and sorrow and loss for everything she suffered, and still hold her accountable for her actions.

I'm an abuse victim, too! I've had people manipulate me and convince me to do The Wrong Thing, too! The difference is I don't HIDE from what happened; I face it and make amends where I can and I DECIDED to TAKE BACK CONTROL!

I simply don't LIKE T.erra; her personality grates me and her attitude when she was fully on S|ade's side was absolutely abysmal. It's all subjective, really. But I won't get over it because there wasn't really closure, and any resolution would have to be as equally powerful as the crime to which I hold Hurting One's Friends On Purpose-- something unforgivable to me, and she never even apologized. She never made any move to make amends, to make sure they were okay.

Presuming the girl in the last episode was her (another episode I hate to think about), she just. Ran away. Never even said goodbye. Never put a thought towards how they were doing, to see what they'd done without her, to make amends or even make sure they were okay. She fucked off to do her own thing. She's selfish.

It's even harder to forgive somebody when they don't apologize.

And I see no reason to soften what she did.

Maybe I'm bitter and maybe I'm unforgiving for it, but I'm okay with that.

Cool motive, T.erra. Still murder.

[salty-eggg]

I remember seeing a post on here talking about grieving their loss of innocence while consuming media since they are now older than the protagonists and I just wanna talk about that.

I totally get mourning that starry-eyed perspective when you're a kid of seeing a protag who's a kid like you and doing cool shit, and then looking back as an adult being like "where has my innocent, simple outlook gone? When did life become more complicated?".

But, personally, consuming media as an adult in which the protags are much younger than me has been an Incredibly healing experience.

As a kid, I would look up to these characters and wish to be like them. I would cheer them on when things are difficult, sympathize/empathize with them when they have problems, and sincerely believe in the hope that they carry in the face of utter hopelessness. However, as an adult, I don't identify with them as equals, but rather I view them like a proud parent. I still cheer them on and whatnot, but now it's in a supportive lens of like "look at my kid go!".

There is such a Healing feeling in taking kids seriously as an adult, even just through media. It's reminded me that being a kid was actually pretty fucking complicated! You had to juggle with so many expectations of adults constantly reminding you how "the real world" won't be as kind nor as accommodating to you as you get older ("you won't be able to do this when you're a fifth/sixth/seventh etc etc grader") while, at the same time, they dumb you down to just "a kid" and you can't be having serious issues/perspectives of the world.

When interacting w media containing characters younger than me, it's like I'm looking back at my kid self, getting on eye-lvl w them, and telling them that you're not stupid for feeling certain things or seeing things a certain way, and I will take the time to listen to you and your needs and not dismiss you just cause you're a kid. You are just as complex as adults and I'm sorry that some refuse to understand you because they think you're more simple than that, I'm here now.

It just makes me think of the media timeline most ppl go through: when you're a kid, you look towards hopeful characters who do cool stuff. It's simply just Awesome and you want to be as awesome as them. Then, you're a teen, and you search for more brooding, dark characters cause hope is overrated and shallow. More problems = more complexity, thus edgy characters are more interesting than bubbly ones. But, finally, you reach adulthood and have more nuanced ideas about media that isn't just issues = complexity.

Growing up, to me, has been about gaining a new appreciation for hope and innocence in media. Of course those dark characters will still make my brain Explode, but there is just smth Special I've found watching a character who is innocent and bright go through such treacherous journeys and come out of it still hopeful. They've been beaten and battered, on the edge of losing hope (or even lost it a few times), and irrevocably changed due to the harrows of their journey...and yet, they can still find the strength to get up and carry on. Hope isn't naive nor a weakness, it is Powerful. And seeing it in kid protags has made me nurture that Kid Hope into smth more relevant for my Adult Self, but still taking good care of the pure essence of it that is Hope For The Sake Of Hope.

You can mourn for that loss of innocence, and maybe you should. But these kids who have been wildly underestimated by ppl who, at the same time, overestimate how much they should grow up to tackle "the real world" manage to find their Own footing and endure their Own way.

Life has gotten so much more complicated, but we're still in charge of Our Hope, and we can still make hoping as simple as just Believing in it, like how we used to as kids.

And isn't that beautiful?