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9worldstales · 3 years ago

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MCU The Avengers - How did the fandom came to believe Loki was tortured by Thanos? (aka when God, Saint Paul and Dante seem to say the same thing)

Everyone has probably heard how there are people who say that, after falling into the Void at the end of “Thor”, Loki was tortured by Thanos and then sent to Earth. Of course every time this story comes up there’s a debate because this is not explicitly shown and some say it’s just a theory (word of Dante), some say someone involved with the work said so (word of Saint Paul) and some says the creators, be it Marvel or Joss Whedon or another director/scriptwriter said so (word of God).

Well, the truth is a collective chat about the three.

But first...

SOURCES MENTIONED:

Movies: “The Avengers” (2012), “Guardians of the Galaxy” (2014), “Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2″ (2017), “Avengers: Infinity War”

Series: “Loki” (2021)

Comics: None mentioned

Direct-to-video animated film: None mentioned

Motion comics: None mentioned

Books: “The art of The Avengers” (2012)

Novels: “Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: The Avengers” (2015)

Webs: The official Marvel web

Others: Interview: “‘Thor: The Dark World’: Tom Hiddleston on boom times for evildoers”, Interview: “Tom Hiddleston - live on stage Q&A: Popcorn Tax.i October 8, 2013, Event Cinemas George Street, Sydney”, Interview: “Tom Hiddleston THE AVENGERS Set Visit Interview”, Interview: “Joss Whedon told Comic-Con the question he doesn’t want us to ask ever again”, Interview: ‘Avengers: Infinity War’ director explains why a major death had to happen so early in the movie, Script: “The Avengers”, Interview: Secrets Revealed in Joss Whedon’s Avengers DVD Commentary

Let’s start with...

WORD OF DANTE (aka fancanons)

Undoubtedly fans noticed some suspicious things in Loki which has brought them to draw certain conclusions.

1) At the end of “Thor”, when he control Selvig, his face seems to be bruised, as if he had been beaten. It’s easy for fans to assume if he seems to be beaten maybe... well, he was?

2) When he arrives, in “The Avengers”, in some scenes he seems unsteady on his feet and in poor shape as if he’d been beaten and, in one scene, he seems unable to stand straight. Same as above, Loki will prove through the movie he’s very resistant. If something made him unsteady on his feet... well, this can mean someone beaten him.

3) The Other threatens him and keeps him under surveillance, as if he’s controlling him somehow, both during the movie and in a deleted scene, which seems to imply Loki is working under coercion more than willingly.

THE OTHER: You will have your war, Asgardian. If you fail, if the Tesseract is kept from us, there will be no realm, no barren moon, no crevice where he can’t find you. You think you know pain? He will make you long for something as sweet as pain. [The Avengers]

4) Some wondered if Loki could have ended up being possessed as well by the sceptre as the sceptre could control minds.

5) Some noticed how Loki’s eyes appear as blue in “The Avengers”, a characteristic of the possessed guys, while in “Thor” they seem to be green was a hint Loki was possessed, same as Selvig and Barton.

6) Some wondered if Thanos might have tortured him to force him to cooperate as Thanos is known for having tortured people working under him. We saw him torturing Nebula in both “Avengers: Infinity War” and “Avengers: Endgame” and we also have those bits:

Gamora: He’s not my father. When Thanos took my home world, he killed my parents in front of me. He tortured me, turned me into a weapon. [Guardians of the Galaxy]

Nebula: You were the one who wanted to win. And I just wanted a sister! You were all I had. But you were the one who needed to win. Thanos pulled my eye from my head… and my brain from my skull… and my arm from my body… because of you. [Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2]

Gamora: All my life, I dreamed of a day... a moment when you would get what you deserved. And I was always so disappointed. But now... you kill and torture... and you call it mercy. The universe has judged you. You asked it for a prize, and it told you no. You failed. And do you wanna know why? Because you love nothing. No one. [Avengers: Infinity War]

7) Others assumed that, if Thanos didn’t do it personally, another of his children could have done it for him. We saw Ebony Maw torturing Stange in order to get the stone for Thanos.

Ebony Maw: You’ll only wish you were dead. [Avengers: Infinity War]

8) Since Thanos was willing to kill Rohan should he fail to bring back to him the orb, Thanos would have killed Loki if he hadn’t brought back the Tesseract so Loki was working for him under coercion.

Thanos: I shall honour our agreement, Kree. If you bring me the Orb. But return to me again empty-handed... ...and I will bathe the stairways in your blood. [Guardians of the Galaxy]

Ebony Maw: In all the time I’ve served Thanos, I’ve never failed him. If I were to reach our rendezvous on Titan with the Time Stone still attached to your vaguely irritating person, there would be... judgement. [Avengers: Infinity War]

9) Loki’s willing cooperation wasn’t needed if Thanos had the feeling Loki could do it. He had blackmailed Gamora into giving him the location of the soul stone and he had killed Tivan to get the reality stone.

World of Dante is, as usual, very charming but if not supported by anything else it can’t ascend to canon. This doesn’t mean it’s false unless Word of God ends up stating the opposite, but this doesn’t mean it’s true either. Just possible but unproved.

So is there someone else that’s a little stronger than fan theories?

Enter...

WORD OF SAINT PAUL (aka what Tom Hiddleston says)

For start that he has blue eyes and, from the way he speak, apparently he was never made wear green eye contacts.

Loki is a sexy villain, but that’s not part of his ambition, is it? He doesn’t seem to be interested in love or sex but he has this sexuality about him, maybe it’s his lust for power. What do you think of Loki as a sexy beast? [Laughs] That’s the first time anyone has ever used that phrase about Loki. It’s fascinating isn’t it? I don’t know because it’s not a part of the conscious construction. I take relish in playing him. I think there’s a physical self-possession about him, a self-acceptance. Of course I’ve been very exacting about his physicality. You know, I was born with very blonde, curly hair, and a mixture of Scottish and English genes, and my complexion is very ruddy and healthy. In making him with this raven black hair and blanching my face of all colour, it changes my features. Suddenly my blue eyes look a lot bluer, which lends a severity to my face. And even my own smile has a distorted menace to it. Whatever comes through me naturally is distorted. It’s almost like a filter on a light. [‘Thor: The Dark World’: Tom Hiddleston on boom times for evildoers]

This disproves Fan theory point number 5. You might have noticed though that the theory about Loki being possessed by the sceptre is point 4. You’ll see later why I hadn’t placed those two points together.

And now let’s see what he has to say about what happened between “Thor” and “The Avengers.

In your opinion, what happen to Loki when he fell in to the void? Like, what did he experienced? HIDDLESTON: “You mean at the end of Thor?” “Yeah.” HIDDLESTON: “I think he went like with everything else to… Joss Whedon and I discussed it, to a sort of… hum… as… It was like the worst place imaginable. I think, he went to sort of all of the darkest recesses of the Universe, you know. I’m sure he had a brush with… with... with... several brushes with death. I think he ran into the shadiest characters you can find in the Nine Realms. I think he had to rely on his wits to protect himself. Hum… It was really, really, really unpleasant, I think. Umm… and all I have to, you know, I don’t have any frame of reference for that, really, except for imagining what it might be like to be… I don’t know, to be kidnapped by sort of a terrorist cell or something. And have to survive very very frightening and precarious existence. But whatever it was, it was important when Loki came back for the Avengers. Whatever compassion he had left, was absolutely kind a shrivelled to a minimum. Because of the experience he had. Harrowing, I think, and scarring for life. In a way that Odin and Thor, and Frigga find very, very difficult to understand. It’s a good question. Happy Birthday.” [Tom Hiddleston - live on stage Q&A: Popcorn Tax.i October 8, 2013, Event Cinemas George Street, Sydney]

How different is Loki in this film when compared to how he is in Thor? I think that he comes into his own power at the end of Thor. Is he just very angry and bitter in this film? HIDDLESTON: Well, what can I say here? I swear to you that in that building over there, there are sniper rifles. [laughs] I think that what was interesting about the journey of Loki in Thor is that he went from second string and damaged prints to being the God of mischief and God of evil. I think somewhere between the end of Thor and the beginning of The Avengers, Loki has been to the Marvel equivalent of the 7th circle of hell. At the end of Thor you see him let go. He lets go of the spear, he lets go of Asgard, and he lets go of the need of his brother and father’s affection and approval. He has bigger plans now. [Tom Hiddleston THE AVENGERS Set Visit Interview]

HIDDLESTON: “At the end of Thor, Loki lets go of that spear and falls into a wormhole,” Hiddleston said. “And the question in the audience’s mind, one hopes, is what happens to Loki in that moment? And in the time between the end of Thor and the beginning of The Avengers, Loki has explored the shadowy highways and byways of the universe – and he’s met some terrible, terrible people and probably has some awful experiences, which he has survived and overcome. So by the time he arrives in The Avengers, he knows the extents of his power – and he’s unafraid to use it. And more importantly, he’s unafraid to enjoy it.” [The Art of The Avengers]

There’s actually more but I think I’ll stop here.

Overall Tom Hiddleston seems to be a big supporter of something terrible happening to Loki, something equivalent to being ‘to the Marvel equivalent of the 7th circle of hell’* evidently at the hands of someone, the ‘shadiest characters you can find in the Nine Realms’, ‘some terrible, terrible people’.

Basically he says ‘I don’t have any frame of reference for that, really, except for imagining what it might be like to be… I don’t know, to be kidnapped by sort of a terrorist cell or something. And have to survive very very frightening and precarious existence.’

[*7th circle of hell: For who’s curious the 7th circle of hell in Dante Alighieri’s Divina Commedia is where are punished those who had committed violence against others and against themselves (suicides). Loki committed both sins. For Dante people who committed violence against people is immersed in a river of boiling blood with centaurs shooting arrows at those who try to escape while suicides are transformed into bushes and trees, gnarled and thorny, fed upon by the Harpies for all time. Likely that’s not what was done to him but anyway that’s not a nice place to be.]

Yes, Tom Hiddleston never said it was Thanos and his men who ‘kidnapped Loki and put him through the equivalent of the 7th circle of hell’. He’s very vague on this but we now Tom Hiddleston is careful not to give information which could constitute spoilers.

He also never mentions Loki being mind controlled as far as I know.

So we need an even higher source.

We need...

WORD OF GOD, or, in this case the WORD OF GODS, plural, because in the Marvel world there’s plenty of people who can claim authorship for the stories of those characters.

Whedon avoided speculating about his future plans, claiming he had too much on his plate to think about what will come next, but he did reveal that he’s bothered by a bit of unresolved backstory for Loki. At the end of Thor, Loki was emotional conflicted, but at the beginning of Avengers, he’s a demented villain, with no qualms about unleashing alien hell on Earth. Asked about how happened in between, Whedon said: “Well, I can’t tell you exactly what went on because it’s this dark, dark secret that I didn’t make up yet. But, the other day, I had trouble with that because he had this very passionate Shakespearean tragedy thing going on in Thor and then I needed a villain who’s not only capable, but ready and willing and anxious to take on all these heroes. For me, he just basically went on some horrible walkabout… That was pretty much as far as I got.” [Joss Whedon told Comic-Con the question he doesn’t want us to ask ever again]

God confirms what Tom Hiddleston said, Loki went through something terrible... but he had no idea what because he still had to work on it. He didn’t want to establish what. But, as I said, Marvel has plenty of Gods willing to talk.

After Loki fell in the wormhole... where did he fell?

Arriving at the Sanctuary through a wormhole caused by the Bifrost, Loki met the Other, ruler of the ancient race of extraterrestrials the Chitauri, and Thanos. Offering the God of Mischief dominion over his brother’s favorite realm Earth, Thanos requested the Tesseract in return. Gifted with a Sceptre that acted as a mind control device, Loki would be able to influence others. Unbeknownst to him, the Sceptre was also influencing him, fueling his hatred over his brother Thor and the inhabitants of Earth. [MARVERL official web]

So no, after falling into the wormhole Loki didn’t go on a touristic trip through the universe, met someone bad unrelated to Thanos, changed and then met up with Thanos.

He straight out ended up at the Sanctuary and met with the Other who worked for Thanos.

Yes, they don’t say he got tortured in this bit but they confirm the sceptre was influencing him, ‘fueling his hatred over his brother Thor and the inhabitants of Earth’.

There’s some more that comes from Joe Russo and Stephen McFeely.

If you’ve watched every movie in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, you shouldn’t have been too surprised Thanos killed Loki. His death has been a long time coming since 2012’s “Avengers.” You may not recall, but it was Loki’s job in “Avengers” to secure the Tesseract and deliver it to Thanos. Loki never made good on that promise. It was only a matter of time before Thanos came after him to collect. Co-director Joe Russo says Thanos ultimately murders Loki “for disobedience.” “Remember, he [Thanos] had a relationship with Loki, even if it was off-screen where he entrusted him with a duty in ‘Avengers 1’ and Loki failed,” pointed out “Infinity War” screenwriter Stephen McFeely. “He’s [Thanos] making him [Loki] pay,” added Joe Russo. “Thanos has a long memory,” McFeely concluded. [‘Avengers: Infinity War’ director explains why a major death had to happen so early in the movie]

And then... then there’s something that’s even above World of God.

So finally we have...

CANON, aka what the movies say, and they say the weirdest canon lines in this regard if I can say so.

Thanos: [Walks over and drops Loki’s body in front of Thor.] No resurrections this time. [Avengers: Infinity War]

Loki: Is that the only reason you brought us here? To kill us? I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve been killed, so go ahead. Do your worst. [Loki Ep 4]

How all this translates? (aka Word of Dante comes back because God and Saint Paul are just too obscure and canon is no better)

If Loki after falling into the wormhole ended up straight to the Sanctuary, the ones who played the part of the terrorists and lead him to an experience similar to ending in the 7th circle of hell where he had many brushes with death where either Thanos or his men.

Do your pick if the Other took care of it personally, if Thanos did the job or if he let the pleasure to Ebony Maw and what they did to him, if they forced him to fight with others same as Gamora and Nebula where forced to do, with the loser also losing a body part or if they just beat him.

The fact that Loki, in the “Loki” series say he has been killed so many times he lost count and that Thanos in “Avengers: Infinity War” says there will be no resurrection this time seem to be connected.

That Loki as far as we know only attempted suicide by letting himself fall in a wormhole once, and Thanos couldn’t know Loki was given up for dead in Svartalfheim so the idea that Loki was killed many time and that Thanos know he had been resurrected should be connected.

How? That’s beyong my understanding as, as far as I know, no one in Thanos’ group has resurrecting powers. Can the mind stone do it? This would open up another theory.

As for the sceptre controlling him ‘fuelling his hatred over his brother Thor and the inhabitants of Earth’ what does that mean?

That he’s clearly not completely brainwashed as Selvig and Hawkeye.

So which is his level of brainwashing?

Very likely it’s at the same level as the one of the Avengers when they are in the same room and start arguing and the discussion degenerates to the point they seemed about to go at each other while the gem in the sceptre starts to glow, which is something both the script and the novelization reference...

[As the “team” argues, they don’t realize the BLUE GEM on Loki’s sceptre is glowing brightly.] [“The Avengers” Script]

None of them noticed when the gem set into Loki’s sceptre started to glow. [“Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: The Avengers”]

...and that the visual remark, turning the scene upside down as the gem is in full focus.

The novelization describes them as arguing without even knowing exactly what they’re arguing about.

Tony and Cap squared off over an argument that they couldn’t remember starting. Tony was still mad about the last thing Cap had said to him... whatever it was. [“Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: The Avengers”]

We also see Bruce picking up the sceptre without realizing, something that’s referenced both by the script and the novel.

BANNER: You wanna know my secret, Agent Romanoff? You wanna know how I stay calm? [BLACK WIDOW and Fury have their hands down to grab their guns.] STEVE: Doctor Banner... put down the sceptre. [BANNER LOOKS DOWN AND IS SHOCKED TO SEE HE’S HOLDING LOKI’S SCEPTRE. The computer beeps. They all turn to it.] [“The Avengers” Script]

“Dr. Banner,” Cap said. “Put down the sceptre.” Bruce looked down. He hadn’t even known he’d picked it up. He looked back up and saw Natasha’s hand on her sidearm. Fury was also ready to draw. The others were drawing back from him as well. Even though he could see what was going on, the hostility in the air was still tick enough that Bruce didn’t know wherever he could back everyone down... or wherever he could back himself down. He could feel the tension rising inside him. He could feel the monster trying to get loose. [“Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: The Avengers”]

The implication is that the sceptre is influencing them, pulling out their worst feelings and competitively and whatever which matches with what it did with Loki, it fuelled his hate.

It’s interesting how, when Loki arrives on Earth, the gem is glowing...

Also, the stranger held a kind of spear in his right hand. Set into its head, a gem glowed the same icy blue as the energy that had spilled from the Tesseract. [“Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: The Avengers”]

...and he also looks at the sceptre as if he hadn’t realized having it in his hand.

“Sir,” Fury called as armoured S.H.I.E.L.D. agents closed nearer, “Please put down the spear.” The man looked at the sceptre as if he had only just noticed he had it. Then, slowly, he looked back up at Fury, and a vicious smile spread across his face. [“Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: The Avengers”]

It’s worth to mention though, in that scene in which the Avengers argue, none of the Avengers has his eyes turning blue, although they weren’t themselves any longer.

So, it’s possible this is the distinction, Clint and Selvig have completely lost their will and are subjugated to Loki’s will, and as a result they’ve the blue eyes, Loki and the Avengers instead only had their mind warped by increasing exponentially their negative feelings to the point they might have started losing focus of the situation and only operate on negative feelings... if that’s make sense. They’re still themselves but their perception is warped so they’re acting in a way that’s not normal for them.

On another note it seems that in Joss Whedon’s Avengers DVD Commentary he said that

Hawkeye’s blue “possessed eyes” were added in post very late in the game, to make it more obvious that he and Eric Selvig were under Loki’s influence. [Secrets Revealed in Joss Whedon’s Avengers DVD Commentary]

This means that originally they weren’t meant to turn blue.

In the novel there’s no mention of it, in the script they’re described just as glowing black and then nothing more.

LOKI: You have heart. [Loki places the tip of the spear against Barton’s chest. Barton’s eye glow black, and he stops resisting. Loki begins controlling other agents around the room. Fury sneak up, grabs the Tesseract, and places it in a briefcase, trying to sneak out.] [“The Avengers” Script]

In the movie instead they turn all black for a moment and then settle on blue.

It’s an unnatural blue though, where Loki’s normal.

But again, this too is a fan explanation. A fan explanation based on canon, but still a fan explanation since God didn’t bother to explain further and at this point I’m afraid he’s not even interested in explaining it since the “Loki” series could have dug on this and instead expressed 0 interest in digging into the past movies.

Sometimes we’ve just to accept that fan theories are all we have and that we can like or dislike them.

And that’s all. Thank you to who remained till the end of this long post!

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youphrogthoseshuffles · 4 years ago

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30 questions!

tagged by the wonderful @incorrect-lotr-trash!

1. Name or nickname: i hoard names like a dragon you may call me sunny, jordan, anor or dante :D

2. Gender: non-binary

3. Star sign: scorpio

4. Height: ok last i checked im 4'9 but i hope thats changed hjhsjxn

5. Time: morning, eating breakfast as i type lmao

6. Bday: nov 16

7. Fav band(s): the mechanisms, imagine dragons, softwire, the paper kites, project smok (i listen to a lot of folk and sea shanties but im not putting folk groups on here they arent bands necessarily)

8. Fav solo artist(s): vindsvept, sleeping at last, will connolly, hozier, ben below, reesha dyers, brent arnold, i could go on for ages

9. Song stuck in your head: santiano (longest johns ft. skald)

10. Last movie: lotr: rotk bc i just finished my rewatch

11. Last show: young hercules...... but only the 1st ep bc i cant find the others and the plot is killing the poor greek myth nerd in me

12. When did you create this blog?: uhh sometime last yr? reasoning is in question 17

13. What do I post: mostly th/lotr stuff with the occasional podcast

14. Last thing I googled: 'difference between scandinavia and nordic'

15. Other blogs: @sorrowsunny my shitpost mechs sideblog! dont post as much as i want to tho ever since th/lotr brainrot took over

16. Do I get asks: nope! am lonely pls talk i swear i dont bite

17. Why I chose my url: oh boy i love this story

in science class last yr we had to play a game that involved getting paper frogs and shuffling them around. the phrase 'you shuffle those frogs!' started as a joke then we tried to see what the weirdest way we could spell frog was while still pronouncing it right (furtherest we got was phroggue) then changed the phrase around to 'you phrog those shuffles!' (had to shorten phroggue down lol) and i said smth like "it sounds like a shitty tumblr blog url" and here i am

18. Followings: 58? wtf i swear i followed more

19. Followers: 13

20. Avg hours of sleep: depends but rn i think its like 4 or 5 whoops

21. Lucky number: 4 bc its orange, sometimes 6 or 8

22. Instrument you play: main is violin but i mess around on piano, guitar and vocals too

23. What I'm wearing: fluffy panda pjs

24. Dream job: illustrator or concept artist, preferably character design OR musician

25. Dream trip: new zealand or greece i guess? the classical studies student in me vibrates in excitement just thinking abt it

26. Fav food: nope try again you cant make me pick tho im rlly craving taho rn (filipino sweet tofu snack)

27. Nationality: filipino

28. Fav song: top 5 favs i can think of on the spot is eight (sleeping at last), like a river runs (bleachers), northwest passage (unleash the archers version), mary ellen carter (stan rogers) and the wind and rain (razor hill version)

29. Fav book(s): too many but top 5 favs are probably lotr, the mortal engines, the night circus, les miserables and the song of achilles

30. Top 3 fictional universes I wanna live in: middle earth, the httyd world (book or film i dont mind) and the world of deltora bc im still a deltora quest nerd 😔

if any of my 13 followers see this go wild lol

#tag game #this was v v fun!

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zetalial · 6 years ago

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My top 10 favourite FMA 03 episodes

Hey, I figured I’d make a list. Everyone likes lists, right?

This was going to be just the list but then I decided to add some thoughts and add pictures so now this is a long post… I’ll be counting down from my tenth favourite.

10. Episode 23: Fullmetal Heart/Heart of Steel (whichever title you prefer)

Odd choice, much? This is only a breather episode yet for some reason it’s one of my favourites. Maybe it’s because the characterisation of everyone is just great. You’ve got Edward, Maria Ross, Hughes, Winry and Alphonse all interacting and going through all the aftermath of Lab 5 and it’s just the kind of episode that appeals to me. It’s got some moments of humour as well as the angst. I’ve already made a separate post on this episode actually.

There’s a negative in that Al’s identity crisis is present here and that’s not my favourite arc. That actually gets more focus in the next episode though. I wouldn’t exactly call it an eventful episode either unless you love intense conversations like me. (Hughes is the best, by the way.)

9. Episode 8: The Philosopher’s Stone

Better known for being the Barry the Chopper episode. It also comes immediately after Nina so a lot of it deals with the aftermath of that. Of course, where Fullmetal Heart is a breather, this is the opposite. This is where the evil writers decide to twist the knife that was the Nina incident by putting our beloved 12 year old hero through even more emotional turmoil. As a lover of angst, and exploring fallouts, I loved this episode. (I debated including the Nina episode, Night of the Chimera’s Cry, for this list but chose this one instead.) The encounter with Barry is always very striking, seeing how worked up Ed gets and how unnerved he is. Meanwhile you’ve got Al keeping a clearer head trying to move on while Ed’s not ready to yet. Meanwhile you’ve got other characters around but not able to provide comfort. Mustang, Riza, Winry, even Hughes. Seeing human Barry adds to the lab 5 arc later on too.

Negatives might be that it’s too angsty, I can see it being a turn off. Villain is very blatantly evil. I personally don’t mind that sort of thing though. Also Winry is present but doesn’t do all that much.

8. Episode 17: House of the Waiting Family.

I swear this list isn’t all Breather episodes! But, yeah, this one deals with the fallout from the Scar battle some and does a bunch of other stuff. I’ve already made a separate post about this one too. It’s an episode of recovery, and family. Ed and Al embracing the past they’ve left behind once more. You’ve got Ed visiting his mother’s grave, Winry encouraging Ed and Al to come home again, Ed almost confessing his guilt about the transmutation to Al, Winry finding Ed’s watch and the message inside, Al having trouble remembering the past, Ed and AL reflecting on their home they lost. It’s a good reflective episode. Family is one of the central themes in FMA, and this episode certainly gives that feeling. It’s a pleasant episode with only a little angst and plenty of humour and heart.

7. Episode 31: Sin

I feel like this might be another odd choice? This is the moment where they reveal the origins of the homunculi and how they do it is absolutely enthralling. Izumi explaining how she tried to bring back her unborn child. Wrath letting himself be led to the island. Izumi attempting to strangle him, but unable to do it. Wrath strangling her. Ed and Al’s horror and instinctive denial as Wrath reveals what the story has been building up to. And there’s all the other stuff that’s going on to. Sloth and Envy fighting Greed. Kimblee and Archer meeting and agreeing to work together. Lust and Gluttony in a group of refugees, intending to cause trouble. This episode is so named to focus on the Homunculi and it very much does. The scene between Envy and Wrath is absolutely enthralling. These are the stories that FMA 03 thrives on, in my opinion. It ends with Al of all people furiously attacking Wrath, so it’s hard to resist not going straight to the next episode.

6. Episode 47: Sealing the Homunculus

This one is right near the end of the series. I was sorely tempted to go with 48: Goodbye. These two are pretty equal in my mind really. This one is more exciting though. Lust is incredible, her fight with Wrath is one of my favourites, she can switch between being utterly ruthless and vulnerable in an instant. Her end completed her character arc in such a compelling way. She’s one of my favourite characters and you can see so much of it in this single episode. But she’s not alone! It’s also got Sloth and we finally get to understand her motivations and feelings while she also meets her demise. Ed and Al both go through more emotional turmoil even though it’s framed as a triumph for them. Wrath is being Wrath. And it leads so tantalisingly into the next episode.

Negatives might be how Al defending Sloth is a touch frustrating. Also Wrath is being Wrath. Yes that’s a positive and a negative.

5. Episode 13: Fullmetal vs Flame.

What’s that, a light-hearted humorous episode with only a small amount of angst? This episode is a gem. It pretty much ties up everything that came before and leads very naturally into everything that comes after. I’ve been thinking that if people wanted to watch 03 but have already seen BH, this one wouldn’t be a bad place to start if you don’t want to retread the beginning at a slower pace. (Though you do miss out on some nice episodes). Beyond that, this episode is loads of fun. The fight displays Mustang’s abilities well, shows off the relationship between him and Ed, Hughes is awesome as usual, Al has a cute cat and did I mention the scene where Mustang loves dogs? The little bit of angst mostly comes from Mustang and some trauma he has from Ishval, leading into the Scar battle next episode very well. He’s being built up great. This episode is simply awesome.

4. Episode 3: Mother

Ah, there’s the mix of darkness and family I love. I’m always mentioning this episode and I love how it explores Ed and Al’s past and shows their characters and how they decided to perform the human transmutation. At first it’s heartwarming and then it’s heartwrenching. Ed and Al have always been my favourite characters and seeing their backstory explored in such detail is wonderful. Have I mentioned the part where they walk away from their burning house while Bratja plays with Al narrating? How about Ed coldly standing at the grave swearing to bring their mother back while Alphonse is crying?

3. Episode 51: Laws and Promises

Right to the opposite end of the series. The last episode is so very striking to me. See Ed and Al sacrifice themselves for each other is spectacular. Dante’s plan so quickly unraveling and I’ve talked about how much I love Envy’s final scene before. The epilogue ties off the series fairly well while still leaving things open-ended. Mustang’s fight with Pride is awesome. His scenes with Riza are lovely. Ed’s scenes with his father are interesting. Dante’s demise. Wrath getting to live and getting automail Winry made for Ed. Izumi teaching Al more alchemy. That final speech that closes the series, where the title of this episode comes from. It’s strangely optimistic and hopeful. It’s nice.

2. Episode 28: All is One, One is All.

Another backstory episode. It features Ed and Al’s survival on Yok island with older Ed and Al reflecting on the past. I think this episode builds to its climactic point of Ed and Al coming to understand what Izumi wanted to teach them very well. I’ve made a post about this episode too. (I talk about episodes I like, okay?) The appearances of Wrath leading up to another nice cliffhanger ending are also nice. It’s another episode of reflection and I love it. Young Ed and Al are always great.

And finally:

1. Episode 22: Created Human

I loved the aftermath of Lab 5. I loved the origins of the homunculi. I love when Ed faces emotional turmoil. And I absolutely love this episode where the Lab 5 arc reaches its dreadful conclusion. Everything about it is great. The moral ambiguity, the homunculi’s goals, Ed getting pushed to the brink, physically and emotionally, just everything that Envy and Lust do, even the older Slicer brother advising Ed. Everything has been building to this moment and it’s executed brilliantly. It makes you start to feel sympathy with the homunculi when they compare themselves to Al’s own inhuman state. It makes you feel Ed’s desperation to save his brother. Al protesting but everyone ignoring him. Envy and Lust talking about equivalence. When they reveal that everyone the brother’s has been working for was leading them here. That moment at the end where the military steps in to save the brothers. Scar doing his own stuff and deciding to help them. There’s even the delightful moment where Mustang breaks the fourth wall at the beginning.

Yeah it’s my favourite.

#fma #fma 2003 #fma 03 #fun making this list.#meta #myposts

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victorluvsalice · 5 years ago

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Forgotten Vows Friday: Favorite Moments, Part IV

It's my BIRTHDAY! :D And much like the 13th was the perfect day to talk about the darkest moments I love in this series, I think today is the perfect day to talk about the brightest moments -- aka, my absolute favorite favorites. I don't think any of you are going to be surprised by this list:

1. Forgetting You, Chapter 9: Splatter Gets What He's Owed -- Victor punching Jack Splatter and rescuing Alice from the burning Mangled Mermaid -- Okay, first of all, I like this chapter in general because it was one of the first I did after getting some solid writing tips from reading the first book of the Riverworld series (namely, "I do not want to write like this"), and I feel it represents a big jump in quality in my storytelling. And this particular moment -- oh, it was satisfying to finally give Splatter exactly what he deserved for hitting Alice! (Which is, uh, kind of why I kept doing it. XD) Not to mention I threw myself into properly describing the burning Mermaid and Victor's rescue of Alice, and I feel it turned out beautifully. (I still like "If the exterior of the Mangled Mermaid was a glimpse at Pastor Galswells's favorite vision of Hell, the interior was the full Time-Of-Judgment-Featuring-Dante-And-Virgil experience.") Not to mention I liked letting Victor play the hero for Alice, as she was going to be playing the hero for him for much of the rest of the verse!

2. Forgetting You, Chapter 24: Confrontation At Moorgate Station -- Victor punching Bumby during the brief moment he broke free of his control -- Speaking of satisfying moments where someone gets what they deserve. . .ooh, this felt good to write after Chapter 22! Bumby obviously deserves worse, but that moment where it becomes clear he never truly broke Victor -- well, Alice wasn't the only one bouncing up and down in delight. XD

3. Forgetting You, Chapter 25: Into Londerland -- Alice shoving Bumby in front of the train -- Obviously I have to include what is also one of my favorite moments in Alice: Madness Returns itself. I was so worried that he was going to get away scott-free, and then Alice took matters into her own hands, and it was great. And I think I did a good job in translating the moment into text, particularly Bumby's shock as Alice turns to face him as her Wonderland self. (Which he definitely saw her as, thanks to my Alice having a natural talent for a certain disguise spell. . .) Not to mention the exchange right before she shoves him:

"Could you kill a fly?" echoed in her head, the Dollmaker trying to get in one last shot from beyond the grave.

I can kill a lot more than that, she replied, and used her free hand to give Bumby one good, hard shove.

Eeee~ So good.

4. Remembering You, Chapter 13: Taking Back The Crown -- Victor defeating the Bumby Heart within the Wall, and regaining his memories -- Again, more satisfying moments against Bumby -- or, at least the remnant of him still left in Victor's head. The whole fight against the Wall, with Victor wielding Alice's weapons against the Ruin, was great to write, but the final battle? Victor clawing his way back from the edge of oblivion thanks to remembering Alice's eyes? The memory of getting the fork from Ms. Plum becoming the initial form of the Vorpal Fork? Victor staring the Heart down as it starts panicking? The "MY! NAME! IS! VICTOR!" line right before he stabs it?! *chef's kiss* That was so good, both to write and to read afterward. :D And then afterward, designing the first form of his Otherland -- the sweet little forest where his memories come back? That was a great way to destress after the fight. Just what Victor and I needed.

5. Remembering You, Chapter 14: So Kiss Me – Victor and Alice's first kiss -- It's their first kiss I'm not supposed to pick this? XD More seriously, this was a sweet and wonderful moment to finally write. And it probably helps that I took some inspiration from one of my favorite Disney movies, Enchanted -- you know how Victor picks up Alice and spins her around a bit? I had in mind Giselle getting spun around by Prince Edward when they reunite in Robert's apartment. (Yeah, I know, wrong couple, but I still thought it was a cute moment!) After so much time spent with them either pining but shoving down their feelings, or being utterly oblivious, or being in love but struggling past lingering mental issues. . .damn, it just felt good to have them finally smooch.

6. Fixing You, Chapter 7: Heck Though Ain't It Grand – Alice's reunion with Lizzie in the Land of the Dead -- I know this was one of the two "big moments" everyone wanted to see in the series, and I was more than happy to deliver. Mostly because it was a moment I wanted to see myself. Setting up the surprise of Lizzie being Burtonsville, not in Oxford, was a lot of fun in-universe, and the actual moment when the two sisters saw each other again – even I "awwwed" internally when they flung themselves into each other's arms. :) It was just so heartfelt. . . The follow-up hug between Alice and her parents when they finally reach the Ball & Socket is great too. Just – I know this is the thing Alice has wanted most ever since the series began, and I was thrilled to give it to her. (And this leading to the final defeat of that damned Jabberwock was a great bonus! Call that an "honorable mention" on this list.)

7. Fixing You, Chapter 10: The Grand Wonderland Tour – Victor and Alice's tour of Wonderland – Yes, the entire chapter. This is the other big thing everyone wanted, and, again, more than happy to deliver. This whole chapter is probably my favorite in the whole series, just because I had so much fun coming up with stuff for Victor and Alice to do in all the various domains! It was like a "greatest hits" of every fun "Victor and Alice in Wonderland" scenario I've ever thought of! :D Personal favorites within the chapter itself are the mine cart ride in the Village of the Doomed (it was fun going back to AMA, coming up with a special suit and dress for the mains for the "domain," and it was very interesting to look up stuff on early roller coasters!), Victor and Alice building a sand castle in the Music Fish's "Choral Coral" spot (that's my personal favorite bit in the Deluded Depths when it comes to the scenery, and it brought back fond memories of being on the beach and watching Mom make sand sculptures), the battle against the Army Ants (more fun with AMA stuff, and a good opportunity to show the pair's battle skills – not to mention, I love the way they got the Ants to back off in the end), and Victor and Alice's race through Cardbridge (again, my favorite level in A:MR, and them just getting to play like kids in this beautiful world was -- I swear, I was smiling and squeeing so much writing that bit. . .). But the whole thing was fantastic, and I think well-worth the wait!

8. Fixing You Chapter 16: Round Three: The Conglomeration. . .and Thirteen – Victor redeeming Thirteen, and the full creation of his Otherland afterward -- I like the whole sequence in Silent Burtonsville (Victor going Hysteria to kill the Colossal Nell when she threatens Alice is definitely an “honorable mention” moment), but the final confrontation definitely makes favorite. Victor and Alice finally recognizing just what it is he's struggling with, and Alice convincing Victor that the only one who sees himself as a monster is him, leading to him forgiving himself. . .ooooof. It just hits you right in the feels, doesn't it? The moment of him hugging his corrupted self, whispering that he doesn't hate him? How could you not sniffle, seriously? And then, after Thirteen's redemption back into Desire, the whole bit where Victor starts getting into what he actually wants his Otherland to look like. . .once again, had so much fun doing the descriptions! I was as enthusiastic as Victor about the whole thing! And Victor's joy at seeing the Living Dead Forest come to life outside the window? So much squee, seriously. Love it.

9. Fixing You, Chapter 18: A Day For A Glorious Wedding – Victor and Alice's wedding – Again, this is their wedding, I wasn't supposed to pick it?! XD I'm pretty sure we were all VERY READY for this to finally go down by the time it happened, and I was just thrilled to finally put it to paper. I mean, I'd had Victor's reaction to Alice's dress stored away in a "notes" file for ages, but to actually get them in front of that registrar, do the vows, go back to Houndsditch and have that cake. . .it did my heart good, seriously. Especially that moment when Victor hears Alice say her vows back to him, and all he can think is that he didn't want to cry. . . Even if it wasn't necessarily the most "romantic" way to get married, I still just wanted to sweep them up in a big hug and weep for a while. XD And then the reception afterwards in the Land of the Dead, with Victor and Alice getting a surprise party from their dead loved ones, Victoria finally getting a chance to see the place, June reuniting with her mother and meeting her brother, and the kids giving Victor his pictures back? I don't think I could have ended that story any more perfectly.

10. A Wedding, A Wedding, We're Going To Have A Wedding, Chapter 7: In A World Of Our Own – Victor and Alice's Wonderland reception – Honestly, the whole fic is a win for me (as probably evidenced by the way it kept growing chapters), but the last bit, which was a complete last-minute "oh hey, if I did a Land of the Dead reception for Victor and Alice, I should do a Wonderland one too!" is just – so full of fluff, I swear. I wasn't expecting it to be so squee-inducing and squishy when I first came up with the idea, but. . .Alice's Wonderland and Victor's Otherland merging like they do, with the inhabitants of both their minds teaming up to give them a party? Showing once and for all they've stopped beating themselves up about stuff for the most part? Awwwwww. . .the bit that really gets me, though, is the very last part:

[. . .] Victor turned to offer Alice his arm as the various citizenry hurried off through the combined woods –

Then paused. A playful grin crossed his face. "What?" Alice asked, raising an eyebrow. "What are – Oh!"

Alice automatically grabbed for his neck as he suddenly scooped her up into his arms. "Oh," she repeated, trying to get her bearings. "Er – any particular reason for giving me a lift?"

"Well, you're my new wife," Victor told her, adjusting his grip. He nodded at the join between their two worlds, the Vale of Tears and the Living Dead Forest mingling in perfect harmony. "Aren't I supposed to carry you over the threshold?"

Oh, he was such a sap – and she loved him for it. "You are," she confirmed, snuggling into him. "If you would, Mr. Liddell?"

"My pleasure, Mrs. Van Dort."

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH – no I DON'T know why that affects me so much but it FREAKING DOES. It just – ooof. *flops* Best way to end anything about their wedding, I swear.

And that covers it! All my favorite moments in the Forgotten Vows Verse! :D Hopefully you guys saw a few of your favorites in here as well. . . I'll see you all in the New Year! With any luck, we'll get some more content for this world, and maybe even a few more favorite moments. :)

#forgotten vows friday #forgotten vows verse #favorite moments #it's my birthday and I'll squee if I want to #most of these are probably super obvious #but I will take the opportunity to rave about them regardless #seriously it was actually really nice to go back through some of these #look at them again and go #'you know what I'm kind of good at this' XD #and have all the Valice feels again #I love my OTP and I want to keep writing for them for the rest of my life :)#in this universe or any other #queued

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cherubsoda · 6 years ago

Note

That ship meme with Dante maybe :Oc

thank you! but worm,, i hope i didnt force you to send this in ( ´•̥̥̥ω•̥̥̥` )

General:

How long will they last? - as long as this bitch wants me in his damn heart but um forever

How quickly did/will they fall in love? - like actually?? not just flirting? a good year and a half probably. its like gradual like haha i like you lets go out and one day its just like :0 shit this is getting serious oh damn alright!!!!!!

How was their first kiss? - probably awkward but heartfelt! because wow im your first kiss? thats whack,,

Wedding:

Who proposed? - Dante because im a pussy sad emoji. i swear,, someone else is gonna have to bring it to his attention like, you’ve been together for how long..? why not just make it official and he just :L fuck you’re right

Who is the best man/men? - I’m gonna keep it real with you chief, we would probably just get the papers signed and have a small get together to celebrate. but if anyone,, its Trish or Nero

Who is the braid’s maid(s)? - it’ll probably be my friend who i shall not tag bc she doesnt know about this account (she also self ships but sometimes,, i need privacy dsfghk) also Lady bc ilh

Who did the most planning? - probably me but also Lady and Trish, please,, help

Who stressed the most? - surprisingly dante, like “is this a good idea bc um, i’m kinda prone to getting into dangerous situations” like yeah jackass i know

How fancy was the ceremony? - ^^^ its not at all fancy. it’s intimate and to the point. We’d share our vows as in he pulls it out of his ass but its still sweet and genuine. He just doesn’t do hand written speeches.Back of a pickup truck | 2 | 3 | 4 | Normal Church Wedding | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Kate and William wish they were this big.

Who was specifically not invited to the wedding? - um if Vergil didnt chill out,, him. But also Dante still loves and cares about him so,

Children:

How many children will they have naturally? - hopefully none bc,, yikes

How many children will they adopt? - i will literally,, pick up every sad child on the street. Nero and Patty,, you are my kids now.

Who gets stuck with the most diapers? - Me

Who is the stricter parent? - ME

Who stops the kid(s) from doing dangerous stunts after school? - both, Dante kinda laughs it off but I’m sweating bullets every time they run

Who remembers to pack the lunch(es)? - Me

Who is the more loved parent? - hnn both?

Who is more likely to attend the PTA meetings? - Mostly me,bc I,, look normal, buts also both of us bc good cop bad cop dynamic.

Who cried the most at graduation? - Dante

Who is more likely to bail the child(ren) out of trouble with the law? - Dante walks in and is like *disappointed but smug dad look* “don’t pull a me, your mom’s gonna be SO pissed.”

Cooking:

Who does the most cooking? - Me; he’s not allowed in the kitchen unless someones in there with him

Who is the most picky in their food choice? - Me I guess, Dante would just eat, anything.

Who does the grocery shopping? - both, it’s a nice change of pace + domestic, if he goes alone he will forget the list and come home with items we didn’t need

How often do they bake desserts? - not too often, its usually a binge thing like wow this month we were just really into it.

Are they more of a meat lover or a salad eater? - meat!

Who is more likely to surprise the other(s) with an anniversary dinner? - Dante?

Who is more likely to suggest going out? - Dante

Who is more likely to burn the house down accidentally while cooking? - DANTE

Chores:

Who cleans the room? - Me

Who is really against chores? - Dante, like he’ll do it but I’d usually have to ask

Who cleans up after the pets? - Dante

Who is more likely to sweep everything under the rug? - Dante

Who stresses the most when guests are coming over? - ME 100%

Who found a dollar between the couch cushions while cleaning? - Patty or Lady, thanks

Misc:

Who takes the longer showers/baths? - Me?

Who takes the dog out for a walk? - both bc its cute and domestic

How often do they decorate the room/house for the holidays? - I get festive in July but i dont like decorating or taking decorations down, so its been Christmas for 4 years

What are their goals for the relationship? - wow um, just be understanding of each other idk also have a kickass time

Who is most likely to sleep till noon? - BOTH

Who plays the most pranks? - Dante; if it’s directed towards me he just puts stuff higher on the shelf

UM BIG NOT FOR WORK (⸝⸝⸝ª̷̛იॢª̷̛⸝⸝⸝)ᵒʰ┈

Sex:

Who is on top? - HA bitch- D a n t e.

Who is the one to instigate things? - Dante; the only time i would ever do this is if i built up that confidence, but I joke about it a lot

How healthy is their sex life? - um,, down to clown 24/7 alright Barely touch themselves let alone each other | 2 | 3 | 4 | Once a couple weeks, nothing overboard | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 rip | They are humping each other on the couch right now

How kinky are they? - Straight missionary with the lights off | 2 | 3 | 4 | Might try some butt stuff and toys | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Don’t go into the sex dungeon without a horse’s head

How long do they normally last? - Dante has a LOT of stamina, ngl he could go all night, so after a few rounds I’d tap out or until i pass out zzz gn

Do they make sure each person gets an equal amount of orgasms? - I would try my fucking best,, but the bitch has so much stamina so unfortunately,, It’s not equal but Dante just go for it just get it. But I won’t leave a bitch hanging fuck that.

How rough are they in bed? - i guess it depends on the moodSofter than a butterfly on the back of a bunny | 2 | 3 | 4 | The bed’s shaking and squeaking every time | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Their dirty talk is so vulgar it’d make Dwayne Johnson blush. Also, the wall’s so weak it could collapse the next time they do it.

How much cuddling/snuggling do they do? - the best part??No touching after sex | 2 | 3 | 4 | A little spooning at night, or on the couch, but not in public | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | They snuggle and kiss more often than a teen couple on their fifth date to a pillow factory.

#ask reply #chiliechii #thank you owo #s: devilishly cute #zesty

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mornadest · 7 years ago

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Homebrew D&D Campaign: Ohalette's Domain

So this morning I've been in a extremely creative mood, so I decided to write a campaign that I've always had floating about in my brain.

To give a brief overview of what I'm writing:

Setting

The campaign takes place in the Amaraviel galaxy on the planet Vil Gal. Sister planet to Urelith, sharing one moon: Hebriniel.

Story takes place in the Dridith Empire. A place Where unrest lives, there's talks of an impeding fall of the Empire and it's Embasy Alience as recently, most districts are at constant battle or disputes with each other and themselves. An empire where crime, desease, poverty and foul creatures roam rampant.

Basic Story

Two mysterious and powerful Drow brothers, named Ohalette and Layorac, appeared about 10 years ago which local legend attributes to how everything fell apart so fast in the Empire.

Very few had come in contact with the Drow and lived, they state that these mysterious beings are gods, able to bend time itself to their will.

Whispers in the Goldwald district told of a name for these beings. Chronomancers? Gods Of Time? Nobody knows, all they know is that monstrous creatures have started appearing all over the Empire.

About 3 years ago, survival rates of these encounters rose briefly. Survivals told of a war between the two brothers that devastated local lands. Of how Layorac had fallen for a mortal being and had become soft, no longer wishing for destruction and death to be attributed to his name.

Enraged, Ohalette killed his brothers lover. A vicious battle ending in the dissapearence of said brother, Layorac ensued. Ohalette, victorious, is said to be still reigning his terror over the lands. Some folk believe Layorac is dead, most believe him to be in hiding, plotting to kill his brother.

General Devashus, under rule of King Asarker of the Goldwald district and The Dridith Embasy has started hiring adventurers to clear out invading monsters but more importantly, find Layorac. Asking for them to win his trust and finally find a way to defeat Ohalette and bring peace to the Dridith Empire, before it collapses into war.

Story will either start at the Embasy Alience halls where the party will be hired or around the Goldwald district.

Finding Layorac

As the party start clearing out towns of monstrosity after monstrosity/exploring different towns in the Goldwald district they will eventually be given enough details in whispers or NPC interactions to find where Layorac is in hiding*

*(Note DM will get to choose which town or where in Goldwald this Drow is hiding)

Once Layorac has been found the party will find out there is a certain way to defeat Ohalette, and they must traverse each and every district in a certain order. Collecting everything they need to defeat him and levelling up enough to face him but Layorac cannot be the one to kill his brother. He will guide the party through the nine districts but will not follow them into the final battle.

Important Subplot:

*To note

The DM may choose to hide this from the party or hint at it through various puzzles/NPC interactions and the likes

---

There are nine (9) districts that make up the Dridith Empire, each representing the circles of hell from The Divine Comedy -Dante's Inferno. Each district corresponds with a circle of hell and enemies and allies vary on which district/circle you are exploring.

This is why Layorac insists to the party that they MUST traverse each district in a certain order. It's the only way to access the plane in which Ohalette can escape to and exist within.

*To note

Although the DM may choose which types of monsters/enemies their party will face, make sure as a DM, you use corresponding monster types for each district.

Districts and Enemies

1. Goldwald

Limbo

Goldwald is the Capital of the Dridithian Empire, home of the Embasy Alience halls and Where the story begins. The town's of Goldwald are often nostalgic and comforting upon first glace yet at closer look, they seem to be TOO familiar. As if you've been here before or atleast, you've been going in circles? Maybe check a map. Or maybe this place doesn't want you to leave

Traversing through Goldwald the types of enemies you will find are ghostlike in nature.

Typically ghosts or undead creatures

2. Greymont

Lust

Greymont is an unruly place where locals welcome strangers a little too warmly. Brothels are the main establishments found and provide the vast majority of Greymonts income and revenue. Known throughout the Empire as the settlement best for merriment. Best to not loose your bard here. They may wish to stay.

A harder look at this place reveals that succubus and incubus type monsters are everywhere terrorising unsuspecting visitors, locals and adventurers

3. Miskwick

Gluttony

Known throughout the Empire as THE place to go for a good meal, Miskwick trade in food and beverage. Their food is said to be so good you wish to eat nothing more that their food forever. Constantly leaving you hungry for more, almost like a craving. Adventurers should be wary of certain establishments who claim their food is divine. If something is too good to believe it may hide a secret. Eating the food at those places will ensure you never want to leave.

The monsters found here, without question, are ever hungry and almost terrifyingly gluttonous maybe even, dare say it... gelatinous.

4. Shadehaven

Greed

Shadehaven is a rather unwelcomingly dull place to traverse. Locals are untrustworthy of strangers and trading with locals can sometimes prove, challenging to say the least. Willing to buy and horde items from eager adventurers but unwilling to sell, it could be said that these parts are full of greedy and ungrateful folk. It may just be the monstrous company they seem to keep.

Whispers and tall tales of hoarding monsters are rampant here. The odd goblin den Maybe? Or something a bit..larger and with wings. Does anyone maybe speak dragonic?

5. Aelmoor

Anger

Travellers should beware when traversing through Aelmoor, this is where the first rumours of impeding Empire collapse and war began. Political unrest seems to be the norm in these parts. Many unhappy that the embassy fails to protect them. In fact, adventurers having always being sent around and killed in their district is just not fair. Between the monsters and the countless town riots, a successful party can’t come help soon enough. Providing of course, they prove their worth.

Monsters here seem to be becoming a lot more aggressive in their ambushing, attacking and kidnapping.

6. Esterview

Heresy

Once a peaceful and loving district, Esterview had a reputation of a safe haven for travellers and weary folk alike, know to be a little too superstitious in the past, some may wonder where in the old gods name the many towns religious belief went.

It seems, many folk now seem to be putting their faith into...darker things.

Rumours of cults roaming thee land have spread across the more gods fearing folk around Esterview. They may be in dire need of help.

7. Ibethimel

Violence

Beware, adventuring parties, of this district. Long since fallen into chaos and ruin. Said to be the ground zero of all the original mishap and destruction of The once proud Dridithian Empire.

The poor district had front row seats to the arrival of Ohalette and Layorac and the destruction they caused.

Resentful of any Drow, for good reason!

Things have never been the same in the district since then. The most violent of creatures are found freely wandering most parts of this district. Locals having long given up trying to protect their towns.

8. Orwyn

Fraud

Orwyn was once a very quiet and beloved district frequented by the nicest folk, popular for it's coastal views and warm weather. A tourist trap for sure. That was of course, before the arrival of the monstrous drows and the trouble they brought with. Orwyn was, unfortunetly severely unprepared and unprotected from the attacks. Leaving it a ruined district, a wasteland to date.

Of course, it is still frequented very often...just by a lot more, unsavoury folk. Bandits and thieves now run this district and have made themselves a home for their misdeeds. It’s said they are behind a lot of the unrest in the Empire. Having spies and guilds try and lure out the impending war and collapse of power and wealth.

Of course, it’s safe to say not everyone is who they seem in this district. It may be hard to tell allies from enemies and fair traders from con artists.

I'd have my wits about you in this district if I were you

9. Shadownesse

Treachery

Hey, if you've made it this far then you sure are a tremendous adventurer. You may also have gained enough knowledge, power and items to pull of the greatest heroic feat The Dridithian Empire and maybe even Vil Gal has ever seen! (Or you may die a horrible painful death)

See, Shadownesse is just as the name implies. The district is the darkest place known to Vil Galians and Amaraviels alike. Heck, even those who may or may not be on the Hebriniel moon know that this is not a place you tread lightly. Filled with the darkest and most powerful enemies known across the lands.

This district has become a hotbed for darkness. Some even say this is where Ohalette himself resides, if only to open portals and allow his vile monstrous creatures to enter the plane.

Maybe you should ask Layorac if he knows about it? That is....if you can find him. Swear he was just with your party right? Oh and hey when you do find him...make sure he looks the same...hang on a second.

This district may have just been a trap. Pray to the gods you can defeat Ohalette while you still know how. Pray also that you kill the correct brother and cause of this darkness over the land.

10. The Shadow Planes/Ohalette's Domain

Final end game location:

So you've killed that pesky Drow who seemed...very convincing that you have the wrong brother. I mean, come ON he couldn't possibly think you could be tricked into thinking that HE was actually Layorac and that Ohalette had lead you here.

And you can't possibly be convinced that easily that this phony "layorac" was creating these armies to stop his brother from destroying the Empire from the inside. Nah.

But what does shock your party is that 1. He was super easy to kill (heck yeah..kinda unnerved by the pleading at the end but whatever right?) 2. you all stepped into the portal to get here in this dark abissal plane of existence only to find....Layorac. on a...throne?

Wait that means "Ohalette" must have been right...well, now you must feel stupid right about now.

And well...ready to face the real threat. Yikes.

Goodluck.

Hello everyone who read this/maybe likes it/and whatnot

So this is just a brief overview of this campaign I've created. I am currently working on it and plan to playtest it myself in the form of a d&d podcast where I will DM. If you're interested in that kinda thing, let me know! Heck, I could try and make a thing of it!

Please also feel free to use this as a campaign, just shoot me a message and I can help you with it and help you map out the world and give you all the not mentioned details; such as various NPCs, taverns, shops and important items and knowledge needed in game!

Constructive criticism is also very welcome

Many Thanks! Love Rachael ('thedorktah')

#d&d campaign #d&d homebrew #homebrew #homebrew campaign #ohalettes domain #homebrew house #d&d5e #my d&d campaign #please do feel free to use this #or to message me if you want to know more about it #or if you want to lend a hand and give constructive critisism #matt meecer eat your heart out #kidding #but also i wish i could write storyline like matt

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miss-musings · 7 years ago

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My Top 10 Lizzington Moments

In lieu of my recent appearance on a local TV/movies podcast, where I defended Lizzington, I started mentally preparing a list of reasons why the romantic pairing is legitimate and why the father/daughter reading of Spader and Boone’s characters is wrong.

Granted, this isn’t to say that there can’t and hasn’t been some aspects of their relationship that have felt more like a father/daughter, uncle/niece, teacher/student, mentor/mentee relationship than it does a romantic coupling… but that doesn’t prevent the relationship from evolving into something romantic later on, or from Lizzington being the endgame.

Among the bigger reasons I could think of were:

In-show evidence (which we will get into more in a second), including the original pilot script

Comments from the actors, producers, writers, showrunners, etc.

The types of roles James Spader takes interest in (ie, romantic leads, not fatherly figures)

Parallels to other couples in literature/history/pop culture, including but not limited to: Edmond Dantes/Haydee from The Count of Monte Cristo; Bill/The Bride from Kill Bill; Hannibal/Clarice from The Silence of the Lambs universe; and real-life Whitey Bulger, who had at least one long-term relationship with a woman 16 years his junior

While talking with the two guys on the podcast who had seen the show, they argued that they hadn’t seen any evidence of Red’s romantic love for Liz or the Lizzington endgame possibility, citing their age gap and Red’s paternal type relationship with Liz as their reasoning.

I, in turn, mentioned a few scenes on the show where Red acts less than fatherly, such as when he surrenders himself on bent knee in 1x21, and when he narrates the tango milonga very sexily to Liz in 2x11.

Either they didn’t recall these instances at all, or didn’t see them as being romantic/sexual.

Thus, long after the podcast recording was over, I started mentally forming a list of the Top 10 Lizzington moments on the show that scream romance rather than father/daughter. Like, moments where if my dad or fatherly figures ever acted like that around me, I’d be freaking the fuck out. Or, moments where if I were writing a father/daughter pair (whether biological or honorary), I would completely avoid such moments for the squick factor, etc.

Granted, there are plenty of moments to choose from, but I wanted to pick big, meaningful moments, rather than just things like Red’s casual reference to the G-spot in front of Liz, etc.

And, really, each individual entry on this list doesn’t prove in and of itself that Lizzington will happen, but it’s really more a combination of all these moments PLUS all the ones I didn’t list (along with all the other stuff I mentioned above). One or two squicky moments can be waved off, but all of these, and as iconic and important as they are in the show… yeah, Lizzington is legit.

I tried to pick out single, individual moments, but there are two exceptions on the list. And, I only went up to the end of S4. I haven’t found any really strong Lizzington moments in S5 thus far, mostly because Liz believes Red is her dad.

And, again, these aren’t my favorite Lizzington moments; rather, the ones that I feel like most “prove” or support the idea of a Lizzington endgame/coupling. Once the series is over, I might do a full list of my favorite moments between Red and Liz.

(It wasn’t until after I’d made this list that I remembered the scene in 4x22 where Liz confronts Red about being her dad and he neither confirms nor denies that he is. Instead, he has this look on his face that I’ve seen on the faces of other TV/movie characters when they’ve been “friend-zoned” or, in Red’s case, “father-zoned.” Eh. Whatever. I’m going with the list as I already wrote it.)

But, now, starting at Number 10 and work our way up to Number 1:

#10: The Fulcrum memory extraction scene in 2x10

I put this one pretty low on the list, because it’s mostly the cinematography that implies the lack of personal space and physical closeness between Red and Liz. Like, he never actually does anything untoward or inappropriate to her, but he definitely gets super close to her face, and holding her, and some of the angles on those shots make it look so close between them.

And, granted, I’m not technically including the fall-out of this sequence, but I absolutely love the scene after when Liz accuses Red of only being in her life because he’s using her to find the Fulcrum. Like, all of his attention and affection toward her has been a manipulation, and as he reaches out to give her a reassuring touch, she recoils and spits venom at him. And he looks absolutely devastated. I feel like that scene is one of my favorites in the whole series, but, as far as the entry on this list goes… the closeness between them in that memory extraction… it’s low down on the list, but, it deserves a spot.

#9: Waiting for her outside the courthouse in 3x10

Again, this is also pretty low on the list, because – in and of itself – it doesn’t scream Lizzington. Not the actual action of the scene itself. I can imagine plenty of dads or father figures waiting patiently outside courthouses for their daughters.

But, it wasn’t really WHAT happened in the scene, but HOW it happened. The music, the fact that the had the bus move, and he was there behind it… a notable romantic trope. The fact that he was waiting OUTSIDE. My dad would absolutely be right inside the door, wanting to see me as soon as possible. Granted, other dads are different, but the music and the staging with the bus were strong factors for this scene being where it is. The looks on their faces when they embrace; the fact that they don’t say anything… again, low down, but it deserves a spot.

#8: Red’s explanation of Tom’s betrayal in 2x19

This is another instance where WHAT is happening in the scene isn’t as important as HOW it’s happening. In this instance: HOW Red explains Tom’s betrayal, how he emphasizes that Tom betrayed him because he wanted a life of intimacy and commitment to Liz… and the look that Spader has on his face when he says it. He’s absolutely shattered. It’s something that’s beyond jealousy, I feel like. It’s this sense of complete heartbreak that, not only did Tom achieve something Red now longs for (intimacy with Liz), but that Liz was happy in that life with Tom, even if it was built on a lie. That Red’s loss was Tom and Liz’s gain.

Granted, I don’t think Red was in love with Liz whenever he found out about Tom’s betrayal. He absolutely cared for her and wanted her to be safe. Hence why he felt he had to turn himself in. But, now that Red has met Liz and presumably fallen in love with her, he completely hates Tom for what he did to both Liz and himself; and I think that his obvious devastation over Liz’s discovery that Red initially hired Tom is more because he feels guilty himself, not because Liz now thinks badly of him (again).

This one is low on the list, but I felt like it deserved a spot because I can’t imagine a father or father-figure speaking to his daughter (figure) the way Red does here. I imagine it’d be more like, “Hey, I may have hired your ex-husband, but he was an asshole and betrayed me to save himself and needle his way into your life.” Not the way Spader delivers it… with that emphasis on Tom’s desire to be intimate and committed to Liz.

#7: The dinner date in 1x02

You know, because if I were a dad and I reunited with my long-lost now-adult daughter after years and years, I’d tell her to get dressed up, because I want to take her out to dinner. And then while we’re on said fancy dinner-date, I’ll bring up out of nowhere, and with little to no need, that if anyone asks she’s MY GIRLFRIEND. Squick indeed.

And for those of you who might be saying/thinking, “Yeah, but THEN, he says she can be his daughter.” To which I reply, “THEN WHY EVEN BRING UP THE GIRLFRIEND THING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!”

When coupled with everything else that happens in that scene: how he whispers, orders her a drink in French (showing off), asks her to profile him, etc., … what father acts like that while on a dinner date with his daughter? Ew.

#6: The May/September reference in 3x05 (and other Blacklisters’ references to Lizzington)

“Some say it’s a daddy/daughter thing; others swear it’s May/September. I prefer to believe it’s a little of both.” –Matias Solomon

This is one of those entries where I’m going to cheat, because while I think Solomon’s quote is the most pro-Lizzington thing a Blacklister has ever said, he’s not the only one to point out Lizzington. From Anslo Garrick to Luther Braxton to Berlin to that lady in the all-woman thief squad to The Director to Madeline Pratt to that annoying FBI agent in S4c to Naomi Hyland.

Liz is Red’s girlfriend, princess, prima ballerina … someone he chose through fate; someone he cares for as much as he care for his wife; someone who blinds him to his passion; someone with whom Red “still has the touch”; someone Red makes feel like she’s the center of the world; someone whose relationship with Red is described as “still the in honeymoon phase”; someone who charmed Liz.

Again, if you’re writing a father/daughter-type relationship: WHY EVEN FUCKING BRING IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!

If you’re just trying to throw red herrings at the audience, why do it in that way? And, if anyone points back to Solomon’s quote and says that it’s both, I say: EXACTLY. Red can definitely have a mentoring relationship with Liz and be overly protective of her, while also still being in love with her.

#5: “My life, My heart” in 3x19

What dad, upon watching his daughter die, would describe her as “a woman… who was my life, my heart”? The fact that Red is talking to his own imagination, or at least to a complete stranger makes me wonder why the hell he would ever phrase it so vaguely – instead of saying something more straight-forward, like, “My daughter was my life. My heart is broken now that she’s dead.”

Also, if Red is her dad, why does he feel like killing himself? Yes, his daughter died, but he still has Agnes. Tom be damned; if Red’s her grandfather, he deserves an opportunity to be in her life. No, Red feeling like the love of his life is gone makes more sense. As much as he wants to be, he has no right to be in Agnes’ life if that’s the case, and Tom (as Agnes’ dad) has every right to tell Red to leave them alone.

#4: Surrendering on bent knee in 1x21

Even IF Red doesn’t know he’s related to Liz, the writers HAVE to know. What idiot writes a bajillion-dollar network show and says, “Fuck it, idk how these peeps are connected! We’ll make it up as we go along!” No, the writers absolutely know what the connection is between Red and Liz, and if they were related, there’s absolutely no way they would ever write a scene where the man GETS DOWN ON HIS KNEES after a super-moving monologue about what Liz means to him and how a kiss from a woman making nearly dying well worth it.

I don’t care if he’s just surrendering himself to the authorities. There’s less dramatic, less trope-y, less romance-hinting ways to do it. The fact that he does it so slowly, so meaningfully, never breaking eye contact with her… fucking hell, what dad does that to his daughter? Or what writers would have an unwitting dad act like that with his daughter? Either Red’s fucked up or the writers are, if they’re really and truly related.

And, even if it’s just an honorary father/daughter thing, the point still stands. I have plenty of fatherly figures in my life, and if any of them looked at me the way Red looks at Liz, gets done on his knees and surrenders (to the authorities) in front of me, I’d definitely be weirded out. Remember, that IN-SHOW, Liz already has a fatherly figure: Cooper. I know other people have pointed this out before, but these two men act very differently for both supposedly being fatherly figures in Liz’s life. By contrast, Red is much physically closer, more intimate and more “romantic” (but not like overtly) and in a way more chivalrous than Cooper would ever be. Could you imagine Cooper getting down on his knees as Red does? No, and that’s a good thing.

#3: Sexy tango narration in 2x11

This is another instance where, if you substitute Cooper into this scene in Red’s place, it becomes immediately weird. James Spader can pull it off because he’s James Spader. He’s drawn to characters who are erotic and sensual and intelligent and romantic; or, if they’re not already, he makes them so, because that’s how he is.

I think that maybe has blinded people to how weird and inappropriate this scene would feel if it was a father/daughter or father-figure and his protege (like, with Cooper and Liz). Imagine Cooper saying the same things to Liz in this scene; describing the tango in the exact same way, with the same tone of voice. It’s no wonder James Spader gets a pass. We’ve come to expect the weird and sensual from Red (like the G-spot reference in 1x03), even though it wouldn’t be accepted in everyday conversation. That’s just the guy Red is.

Or is it more that it’s how Red is around Liz? Yes, Red is plenty weird and sensual and stuff around Samar and other people on the show, but he seemingly cranks it up to 11 around Liz.

Definitely not something a father or fatherly figure should do.

#2: The Ugly Fish and North Star monologues in 2x09 and 3x02

People on Tumblr have brought up before Red’s parallels to Edmond Dantes from The Count of Monte Cristo; it makes sense: Red, our anti-hero of the story, has certain parallels to the classical Byronic hero, which Dantes falls into. You know who else is a classic Byronic hero? Mr. Rochester from “Jane Eyre.”

“Jane Eyre,” for those of you who’ve never read it or seen an adaptation of it, is about a young governess fresh out of school who eventually falls in love with her moody but intelligent employer, Mr. Rochester. He tells Jane, after she saves him from a fire, that he knew she would do him good one day, that she would revive some goodness in him. Later, he refers to her as regenerating him with a vengeance and that she would be his means/instrument of salvation, and that he believes she would help him to live in a higher and purer way.

Now, who else does that sound like?

I get that people believe their kids are their saving graces, their second chances, their fresh starts, etc. Hell, one of the reasons The Bride leaves Bill in “Kill Bill” is so she can make a fresh start with their child. But, the way Red words these little speeches, the meaning behind them, how he gazes at her with complete adoration, how frequently he tells Liz that he sees his “second chance” and saving grace, etc. … it seems a little overkill for a parent to do. A simple “I wanted to make a fresh start with you” or whatever would be just fine.

The strong parallels between Red and Byronic heroes like Edmond Dantes and Mr. Rochester – both of whom end up with women who are much younger than them… young enough to be their biological daughters – absolutely make me roll my eyes any time people say that Red’s love for Liz is fatherly, and only fatherly.

Plus, with the North Star scene, that song that plays over the scene also doesn’t exactly scream “platonic” or “familial,” now does it?

I really want anyone who believes Red is Liz’s dad to watch any adaptation of Jane Eyre, or at least the scene where she saves him from the fire, and then rewatch one or both of these TBL scenes, and notice the similarities and parallels. Y’all. It’s like ridiculous how romantic these scenes are.

#1: The sexy dream (“What do you really want?”) in 2x03

Because, you know, when I have dreams about my dad or my fatherly figure withholding secrets from me, I imagine him in my hotel room while I’m somewhat scantily dressed and laying on the bed, standing over me and asking in a husky voice, “What do you really want?” This gives us a hint very early in the show that maybe Liz doesn’t see Red as quite so fatherly as some believe. All his little hints and sensual comments… all the lip-staring and meaningful looks between them… Liz’s “I feel possessive of him” and similar comments… all comes to a head here (at least at this point in the show). Already, Liz subconsciously, if nothing else, realizes Red’s love for her is not quite platonic and that he’s a very sensual man who – while he would definitely give his life for hers without a second thought – also sees her as a man sees a woman, not as a friend sees a friend (or honorary father sees an honorary daughter).

Now, I realize that might be unfair, as Liz can’t consciously control her dreams. But the writers can and do. Why write that scene like that? Why stage it in that exact way, with Liz holding onto the headboard of the bed, with Red standing over her? Why have those exact camera movements, with Red coming toward Liz’s bed, and the shot moving down to her legs and then up to her head? Him standing where he was would’ve been just fine, but, no, he comes closer to her while she looks up at him a little bit taken aback.

Also, notice how there’s no wide-shot in that whole sequence with Red standing over Liz’s bed? It’s a panning or moving shot. It’s almost like lingering on this image of Red standing next to Liz’s bed while she’s scantily dressed and asking her what she really wants would be … gasp, sensual! Or I guess even more overtly sensual.

Again, if it’s just the writers trying to throw us off… there are plenty of other ways to do that … there are plenty of other ways to write this scene without any kind of squick factor … if all you wanted was a dream where Liz imagines Red killing Tom to protect his secrets from Liz, then why write it and then SHOOT it as they did? Everything we see and hear on-screen is intentional.

#lizzington #the blacklist #nbc the blacklist #raymond reddington #elizabeth keen #liz keen #masha rostova #harold cooper

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