#I said it once and will say it again!! Caitvi fighting side by side is pure magic to me

[irellia]

What violyn cinematic were you speaking of in your last text post ?

Hey!! This one! It's so badass! It's actually a league cinematic that includes Caitlyn and Vi, not just caitvi but it's just!!! They're so perfect

Caitvi exude pure badassery and the general vibe is toptier

[spicyycarrot]

THIS and I really, really hate the argument that "you guys need everything spelled out" or "the show respects you enough that you can imagine it happened off-screen" because bro 💀💀 like OP said the show already spells out a bunch of shit in places we're DEFINITELY smart enough to figure it out ourselves. because as things stand between Caitvi it's just. a conflict came up between them but the writers never bothered resolving it. I'm fine with imagining off-screen conversations about how they wanted to decorate their house, we don't need whole scenes dedicated to seeing them go shopping or deciding what to eat for dinner or even if, when or how they were going to get married. a scene in which two (or more) characters talk to each other should always reveal something about the characters if it doesn't drive the story forward. how Caitvi handled Caitlyn's actions in regards to their relationship is way too big of a thing to just. have to imagine happening off-screen. it's both relevant to the plot because they end up fighting on the same side again AND says a lot about their characters. I find it hard to believe that Vi "promise you won't change" who fell in love with a kind-hearted and understanding version of Cait is just gonna be okay with never talking about what her girlfriend did. even if you want to say this specific talk between them happened off-screen, maybe a conversation between Vi and someone else about it? or a scene where Cait expresses (in more than micro-expressions) guilt and intend to make up for what she did? it's the lack of accountability they give Caitlyn that doesn't sit well with me at all. she just sorta switches sides after becoming the almost complete opposite of what she was like in S1. thinking about just their scenes together in Act 3, Caitvi yell at each other once and then they have sex and then the show ends. of course stuff happened in between but those are some really damn big gaps you're expecting the audience to fill. I don't need to be spoonfed that, like OP said, Isha reminds Jinx of Powder. but what I do want to see is how Vi rationalizes Cait's treatment of her. I want to see how this affects their relationship, like, at all. because as things stand, nothing drives them to reconcile and have sex besides a particular writer's desire to have them do so.

So about Caitvi...

I'm no one to judge whether or not caitvi is good representation. As far as I'm concerned, I'm happy if the lesbians watching the show are happy.

...you know what does piss me off though? A teeny tiny bit more than just "a little"?

Seeing some people defend the absence of a conversation between Caitlyn and Vi with "actions matter more than words".

Like...okay, first thing first, season 2 makes it pretty clear that's bullshit given how every other pairing previously at odds resolved things through the almighty power of talking things out: Vander wrote a letter to Silco and they became gay dads in the au, Ekko went through all possible combinations of words to convince Jinx not to blow herself up, and whatever the fuck Viktor and Jayce had going on in the finale... So yeah, crazy thing to say about this season;

Secondly, when we say "actions matter more than words", are we just not counting the verbal promise of not changing followed by abuse/ pain caused by the very much action of hitting a victim of police brutality who has utterly betrayed herself and her people for the sake of helping the same exact person who hit her because she pointed out "hey, maybe don't risk shooting a child"?

GRANTED this and most of what I'll say next is applicable to most of season 2 imo- we barely get to sit with the seriousness of a situation we just have to skip to the next one, so I wouldn't say it's a caitvi thing alone... nevertheless it's present there too, so back to the main conversation-

We know Caitlyn regrets it, but does she ever understand why it's so fucked up that she did that? Vi has a rush of emotions after realizing what Cait has done and is happy to stay with her, but once they... finish in that prison, does Vi really respect herself as an individual who has gone through some tough shit or is it a passive "fuck it we ball" attitude all the way to the finale where she wears once again the enforcer badge?

Caitlyn's personal character development (one that has to do with seemingly grief alone and nothing to do with classism and power dynamics which are a massive part of the problem both on a micro and macro level) shouldn't be something that "makes up" for what she did to Vi in episode 3, and because Vi's character was criminally neglected we never really get to see her actually give a shit about herself beyond, allegedly, her relationship with Cait- which is fucked, considering Vi always ever only sees herself in relation to others (Cait or Jinx for the most part) and never as a stand alone person.

That's why that conversation was pretty much needed here.

Aside from the fact that having a conversation with a partner isn't just saying "sorry", it's about being vulnerable, letting them know you see them, telling them where you stand, being just openly honest with one another etc. (aka is an integral part of the relationship itself), it also would've been an excellent way to let all the development they couldn't show for a lack of time still shine through dialogue.

No, it's not a "wanting things spelled out", it's a "they quite literally did that a bunch of times already in this very season, so they might as well do it for the main romance too since a conversation would also be fitting for the current situation"; examples might include that one scene with Silco and Ekko in episode 7 about forgiveness, or that one scene of Isha and Jinx where Jinx literally spells out "hey you remind me of Powder, meaning myself when I was younger, the younger self I thought I left behind-" (insert that one clip of Kronk from The Emperor's New Groove).

And before anyone puts words in my mouth, this isn't coming from a place of hate for either Caitlyn and Vi or Caitvi as a ship; engaging in criticism isn't hate for what's being critiqued, so please don't assume that some conversations don't come from a place of love for the show and the characters just because they don't openly praise every bit of what we got.

edit: ...tell you what, the more I think about it the more it seems that the issues I have with how this ship comes to be aren't even super specific to these characters and their relationship, but are actually the same exact things I don't love about the general writing of season 2 on a bigger scale (lack of commentary on class oppression, character arcs that feel unfinished or cut short, the theme of love and forgiveness ending up undermining the seriousness of some situations- I'm not complaining about the theme itself nor I'm saying it comes out of nowhere, I'm saying that probably due to the pacing/lack of time we can't sit with how fucked up some stuff is before getting to the point of "love > anything else"... which isn't a wrong sentiment, I'm just talking about the journey to get there)