#I love Trigun and its nuanced antagonists

[revenantghost]

There are a lot of very different, very strong opinions on this scene--but I personally love how they handled it.

Nai is a character that commits many, many atrocities. Multiple genocide attempts, that whole thing with Vash and the dependents, so fucking much. But every villain is the hero of their own story.

And don't get me wrong, the scene where Knives chops off Vash's arm in Trimax? Absolutely brutal, shocking, and impactful. I love it. But this moment, for me, highlights that Knives isn't purely made of spite and hatred. He's full of fear. He's so afraid to lose what he loves.

I hate him. I hate what he does to the characters I care for, I hate how he demeans and violates others, I hate, you know, the excessive murder. But I get it. I've made fucked up choices trying to protect those I care about, I'll probably do it again. And that's what makes him one of the best antagonists I've ever seen.

[hjemne]

Ilsa, I’ve seen you posting a lot of Trigun and well I’m intrigued by it, to say the least. But just for giggles, would you try to convince me why should I watch it? 😆🤚🏻

AHHHHH!

I didn't think Trigun was going to worm its way into my brain so much but here we are. There is so much to love about it and I adore so many of the characters for a billion different ways. The character type of someone who is made into a killing machine and then is slowly convinced to accept love and forgiveness is my favourite and is all over trigun. So many characters see themselves as monstrous but choose to do what they see as right for the sake of / with the help of their friends. There are moments of silliness and of tragedy, all with an incredibly interesting setting which slowly gets revealed.

Because of the recent release of Trigun Stampede, the community is really active rn (esp on Tumblr!) and it's really cool to see so many incredible fanarts, comics, fanfics and discussions being made. It's very fun to be part of a very active fandom, but also one that is 25 years old and has fanworks that are older than I am.

I really love it, and I would recommend it, but unfortunately I also have some caveats which I gotta mention.

What you gotta know before getting into Trigun is that there are 4 different canon versions and each one has its problems. I wish I could recommend X version as the definitive and best, but that just doesn't exist which is very annoying.

1) Trigun Maximum: the manga

Good: incredible nuances to characters like Wolfwood, Knives, Livio/Razlo. Vashwood subtext is off the charts and their dynamic is incredibly fascinating and central. This is the most detailed and complex story of Trigun and has lots of themes, characters and plot points that don't exist in other versions. Has elements of sexism and sexual violence, but (imo) to show how shitty the world is, rather than to revel in the misogyny. The tone is tragic, with equal mix of hope and pain.

Bad: the female characters of Meryl and Milly get massively sidelined in comparison to their depictions elsewhere. It's a very long manga and has (imo) pacing issues that limit the impact of emotional moments. The art style is beautiful, but notoriously difficult to follow, especially in the many long fight scenes (particularly bad in volume 5). There's lots of disagreement about 'correct' translations and it can be hard to tell which character is doing/saying/thinking what at points which can make it confusing and frustrating to read at times.

Overall: 7/10, I would recommend but maybe not as your first bit of exposure to Trugun

2) 1998 anime Trigun

Good: the silliest of Triguns with some great voice acting. The friendships between Vash, Milly, Meryl and Wolfwood are very sweet and engaging (although it would have been nice to see more of the four of them together). It's a fun overview of the Trigun story and has a very entertaining mix of comedy and serious emotional moments. Lots of hijinks and lots of fights. Milly and Meryl are core characters and get time to shine (it is impossible not to love Milly). This is personal preference but the animation style is kinda goofy in the way it changes styles to exaggerate characters' feelings which I love. The first 12 ISH episodes are very Saturday morning cartoon vibes without being too inane and childish.

Bad: because it only had the first couple of volumes of the manga to adapt from, the mid-season tone shift and later fights feel rushed, a little confusing and ultimately lead to a less satisfying conclusion than in trimax. The misogyny is noticeable, especially in the first couple of episodes, though is limited to a couple of comments in some episodes and doesn't (I think) make it unwatchable. The antagonists are rushed through and it's hard to work out who the 'main' villain is. Tone change is quite abrupt. Wolfwood is a less developed character with a less intense (back)story, Livio/Razlo doesn't exist at all etc

Overall: 7/10, this is what I'd recommend you start with. It has pacing issues and uncomfortable sexist comments, but I think they're outweighed by the strengths of the main casts relationships and the pure entertainment value of it. Not the most satisfying ending, but they were constrained so :/

3) Badlands Rumble (film)

Good: animation is SO crisp. Wolfwood is at maximum chest exposure and actually his character is pretty interesting here. Milly and Meryl are back, but in limited roles. Some interesting world building and Vash and Wolfwood go thru their divorce arc TM which is dumb and funny and angsty.

Bad: Wolfwood is far too pale. The first half an hour is made almost unwatchable by the decision to make sexism and sexual harrassement a way to pad out the runtime. Vash is such a creep it just makes for uncomfortable watching.

4/10 don't watch if you're not already invested, and honestly do yourself a favour by watching the opening scene, then skipping to the 30 min ish mark and watch knowing that Vash has some very tough dried meat in his front coat pocket.

4) Trigun Stampede anime

Good: really cool 3D animation and music. Has Wolfwood's manga backstory and some manga characters like Livio and Crimsonnail, but with very different characterisations. I really liked the episode looking at the childhood of two orphans and how their love for each other was manipulated against them both. Much bigger focus on Knives than the original and more elaboration of his motivations and plans. Zazie is SO much better here than in the original anime. No uncomfortable sexism yay!

Bad: I... don't like tristamp very much. The characters are watered down from their manga versions and Knives is just kinda evil because he was en evil child, rather than the much more nuanced version in trimax. Milly doesn't exist (yet) and they added in a new character Roberto whose role in the story is (or at least was to me) obvious if you know the basics of the hero's journey structure. Everyone has been twinkified and Wolfwood doesn't even have his tits out smh. Vash just comes across as having less agency and his motivations feel weak. I really just dont like a lot of the character decision here BUT to be fair, that's because I'm comparing them to the manga. But also, a main plot point is someone taking over his brother's body so that his sisters can get pregnant and it definitely still feels weird in context. The focus on the two brothers makes other dynamics a little weaker, and has led to a lot of incest-y fandom things which is ehh.

5.5/10 there are some things it does very well and it's very popular for a reason but I personally think the characterisations are disappointing. It's trying to strike a weird balance between being its own, new thing and also nostalgia for original elements, leading to some questionable pacing and plot choices. It doesn't even have Midvalley the Hornfreak.

I would love to be able to talk about Trigun with you and be passionate about the elements of it I love, but also I don't want to recommend it without giving you a fair picture of the parts I'm more critical about. I genuinely love the world building and characters, which are expressed best in the less accessible form of the manga but are also found in the animes. What I'd recommend is watching the original anime first, but also you might need to give it the benefit of the doubt for the first couple episodes which is where the dodgy 90s sexism is most obvious. I'd be super interested in hearing your thoughts and reactions to it if you did watch it, and also please bear in mind that my complaints about tristamp are personal and there are many who love that version so don't take my negativity as fact.

[phantomchick]

I finally finished watching Trigun (1998).

Why has it taken 5 years?

Because I really really really had a hard time getting into it. I absorbed the majority of this anime through bite sized increments every few months with the odd extra good episode taken in in one sitting. But I did it so let's dive in!

I recall being interested in the differences between the manga (which I read before starting the watch) and the anime when I started. I think for example that the anime chose to keep the stuff about the plants a mystery that's slowly revealed but the manga was straight up with all the exposition was an interesting choice that really paid off in the anime form. There were other major differences I was struck by but somewhere inbetween the 6th episode and the pandemic I completely lost interest in doing that and now I don't recall the manga that much at all haha.

Despite the slog I actually do love Trigun!

It's got great characters; an amazing setting, space tech combined with western towns, saloons and a dessert planet! An interesting plot, compelling themes, a fun soundtrack.

But the pacing! Is! So bad! And I'm someone who enjoyed Cowboy Bebop and Stein's gate I enjoy slow paced stories! This anime... I could spend 20-30 seconds just listening to characters huffing and panting for breath with no other action. That was probably to get the tension of a high stakes western stand off but in practice I found it very cringe and difficult to focus/keep my attention on, because of how things dragged and how predictable some of the plot was.

I read somewhere that Trigun '98 is 65% filler and that's why it's brilliant and to an extent I can get that, it really does give you time to get to know and enjoy your time with all the characters in a way modern shounen just don't bother with.

By the end of the show you care about them and danger to them actually feels nerve-wracking or upsetting. And you get to know the world of Gunsmoke too, the characters who are just trying to get by and live their lives, the ones that Vash cares about enough to risk life and limb to protect.

It's one of the last fully cell animated anime series, (I think the last was the original fullmetal alchemist anime) which means that when it stops re-using frames and really gets to work it's a visual spectacle wordy of a jawdrop.

Did I enjoy this anime? Yes absolutely. Do I love Vash, wolfwood and the rest? How could I not! Did I find the critique of pacifist morality compelling and nuanced? Between the way it shows such painful consequences for his pacifist choices and the importance of choosing pacifism anyway, there's no way I wouldn't.

But the pacing. Yikes. After episode 5 I started to stall hard between episodes.

But episode 5, fantastic as it is with its breakdown of Vash's true character, isn't the be all end all of Trigun. His mysterious backstory which is deeply tied to how humanity ended up on Planet Gunsmoke in the first place, his relationships with Meryl the hardworking and stubborn young insurance worker who is the audience viewpoint of Vash before she later becomes Vash's anchor for viewing himself and his beliefs and with Wolfwood the mercenary priest a perfect foil to Vash with his willingness to kill the bad guys and the main antagonist of the story Nai (or Knives) are all so much fun and it would've been a shame to miss out on any of it.

Vash is simultaneously the strongest & silliest goofball around and an emotionally fragile crybaby who's just trying to figure out a way he can live in this world without sacrificing the morals he clings to. It's easy to say morality doesn't feed anyone in a world that's starving for food and water as much as kindness and therefore doesn't matter but Trigun makes it clear that they do matter and it's much more impressive and it's much harder to actually commit to keeping them than it is to dismiss them. Vash is simultaneously a complex and very simple character and he's definitely a worthy mc.

What's not to love.

It's weird to have it over because this anime's been part of my life for so long, finally succeeding in... watching a show shouldn't feel this impactful but I do feel weirdly proud about not giving up despite the major executive dysfunction I had regarding it!

I wanted to watch it a lot of the time but couldn't make myself and in the time since I started it a movie and a reboot have come out.

In a sense Vash articulates the conflict of Batman over his no kill rule and all such characters.

Yes people can be terrible and cruel, prejudiced and downright selfish to the point where they're a threat to all human life. But no one has the right to take the life of another person, no matter what they've done, we have to try and survive together, with humanity, for the sake of love and peace. It's a defence of sincerity in the face of cynicism and hardship and promotes a powerful message of pacifism, with a philosophy that the world has since kind of passed by or moved on from.

The anime is 26 years old and some parts of it haven't aged well but I'm glad I got the experience of watching it.

Without further ado:

That's about it for The List.

Diebuster (6 eps) (Sequel to Gunbuster)

The Place Promised In Our Early Days (movie)

FMA: B s5 (12 eps)

Children Who Chase Lost Voices Down Below (movie)

Otaku No Video (movie)

Princess Tutu s2 (13 eps)

Gits: Innocence (movie)

Stein’s Gate: Load Region of Déjà Vu (movie)

Trigun (26 eps)

Anohana: The Movie (movie)

Anime Watchlist 3 part 2

You don’t watch Ghost in The Shell: Innocence for the plot, no you watch it for The Vibe™, The Aesthetic, the Distinct MOOD and emotional Flavour the thing brings out of you.

And

For the ANIMATION !

This movie is a gorgeous mix of traditional and digital techniques, some of it doesn’t work too well but that’s because it’s thoroughly experimental, and because of that courage to try new things we get this unique distinctive style unlike anything else I’ve seen, also the soundtrack fits it like a glove so there’s that.

The plot isn’t bad per sé it offers its own interesting points and takes off of one of Masamune Shirow’s original manga arcs, a brand of gynoids aka sex bots are killing their owners and Section 9 brought into investigate where it differs from the manga is Motoko’s absence – which is really its own character in the movie, and Batou’s aggressive grief for the loss of a friend channeling all of his actions. 

Batou and Togusa find links between the company who makes the gynoids and the Yakuza what the link is they’re not sure yet, Batou finds a picture of a girl at the house of a victim, Batou and Togusa attack the Yakuza and later Batou gets hacked in an attempt to ward off Section 9 involvement with a scandal, they then travel to another city go past a gorgeous festival which is like PEAK EYEGASM art and try to get into this guy call Locus Solus’s house and find evidence linking him to the crime. Later it turns out the reason the gynoids were so lifelike was that they were using real girl’s minds to give them personality.

Buuut it’s at this point that it gets sucked into its own message, Batou gives out to the child trapped in the factory for dubbing malicious ghosts and getting not only innocent humans killed but also hurting the poor dolls they were uploaded into. Which…  Taking into account this kid has been kidnapped and then brainwashed for at least a year and is scared of being permanently brainwashed like her kid Motoko saying ‘the doll didn’t want to become a human’ in response to the kid’s ‘but I didn’t want to become a doll’ was wayyyy out of step with like basic logic. In the manga it’s only the cost of innocent human lives that was emphasised at the end of this story but here the focus is much more on is a doll a human if you fill it with a personality and philosophical questions like that and are we taking advantage of these machines if we don’t treat them ethically. Still by all means beat up Locus Solus but maybe don’t bully the victim for trying to let people know something wasn’t right with the company that was imprisoning them in the only way they could?? That’s just my take though, I realise that maybe the focus should be more on the concepts it’s introduced rather than the plot that acts as a vehicle for them but still that was so out of sync with basic compassion it kind of broke me out of the story a little and I felt like Mamoru Oshii was saying it through Batou and Motoko’s voices rather than him conveying their character’s actual responses.

So after that they sail the factory which by the way is a huge boat/rig to the nearest country where they can arrest everyone involved and then they wrap up the case. 

Lots of interesting ideas in this film as well as great character moments, we see Batou who didn’t used to understand why Motoko felt she had to go explaining to Togusa that Motoko’s body and even most of her memory and mind belonged to the government and not her, it’s a matter of not only identity but also self determination and freedom that keeps her riding the net rather than facing the physical world alongside them. It was also interesting how the character’s kept using quotes to try and reason their own feelings out to each other, as if to say “I am not the only who has felt this way” even when confronted with the fantastical and surreal side effects of their jobs.

We’re left with questions about the human experience and what defines being human in the end anyway as well as a look at the benefits as well as the crimes future technologies might enable us to deal with.

This film wasn’t as solid as the original Ghost in The Shell (1995) movie as it had its flaws but it was definitely an interesting follow up and I was happy to see the directions the characters took as well as the ART. 

Okay so now that I’m done my ramble let’s check in with THE LIST!

Diebuster (6 eps) (Sequel to Gunbuster)

The Place Promised In Our Early Days (movie)

FMA: B s5 (12 eps)

Children Who Chase Lost Voices Down Below (movie)

Otaku No Video (movie)

Princess Tutu s2 (25 eps)

Gits: Innocence (movie)

Stein’s Gate: Load Region of Déjà Vu (movie)

Trigun (26 eps)

Anohana: The Movie (movie)

Making good headway guys! So next up… I don’t know what’s next up, um, either Otaku No Video or Princess Tutu I think, personally I could go for either but considering I just saw the Bourne Swan Lake ballet irl in theatre last week I think I’m in the mood for some of Princess Tutu’s magic. Let’s go with that!

part 1