#I know it's hard when you don't feel like you're being conventionally “productive”

[erraticprocrastinator]

A reminder to all my lovely fellow writers: progress is progress, even when it isn't. Writing four thousand words in a session is progress. Writing a hundred words in a session is progress. Removing an entire scene because it doesn't flow well is progress. Rethinking your plan for the plot in order to get unstuck is progress. Development looks different for every writer and every story.

[hirsuteandcute]

Hiii! I am a 17 year old girl from rural Ireland, and the majority of girls and women around me shave all their visible body hair. I don't think I ever remember seeing a woman with armpit hair in person a single time in my life, and I have seen girls with leg hair around 4 times. It can be so isolating to exist in the natural state when it seems like nobody else is doing it! Especially when people stare at my legs, ranging from old men in public to girls my own age sometimes 🥲 seeing blogs such as yours can be so encouraging, though, and make me feel as though I'm not so alone in this decision. The only person who's ever said anything directly to me has been my mother, and she always has an extreme adverse reaction to it. I've heard so many other girls within the body hair community saying the same thing, why is it always the mothers doing this?? 💀 I just wanted to say thank you for inspiring me as well as so many other women to embrace our most authentic selves <3 hope you're having an amazing day and keep being you!! :)

You're so brave and amazing for dealing with all this at 17!! I remember starting blog when I was 17 and thinking things were hard back then, I can't even imagine what teenage girls are going through now when it feels like there's even more ridiculous beauty standards and constant commentary and critique and observation of women's bodies.

It's so crazy because I was literally thinking of making a blog post about body hair and 'mummy issues' and how so many of us were firsted bullied/humiliated/changed/shamed etc by our own mothers. And how on one hand I don't want to entirely blame her because I know she is a product of her environment and may even think she's 'helping' me by making me more conventionally attractive, but on the other hand it hurts so much when your first/biggest body shaming comes from your own mother and how deeply and early it gets embedded in you. My mum was waxing my arms when I was 8 years old. She waxed my bikini line and underarms when I was 13 and encouraged me to get a brazilian wax when I was 15. I remember sobbing and begging her to let me have a normal bikini wax because I was so scared of it, but she insisted I had to have it because I hair around my butt 💀 (I privately asked the waxer just to do a normal bikini wax and she did, bless her).

That being said, I don't have a great relationship with my mum in general so idk 😬

It really really warms my heart when I read messages like yours though, you are doing so well to keep going in a world that tells you that you're wrong for your natural body, and it's even worse when you don't have many people around you going through the same experiences. Even now I feel so strengthened when I read these messages and think of us all out here trying to get through the world with our hairy selves, even though we're all in different places and going through different circumstances, we're all supporting each other 🥹 Love you hairy friend 🫶

[kidrat]

I don't technically disagree with you! probably would have expanded on my points if the post wasn't a throwaway comment / liveblogging. I suppose what I can explain further about my pov is that I hate the trope of characters (lbr mostly women) being supposedly horrifically disfigured as punishment, or having a flaw that makes them unlovable, only for them to still fit 100% into conventional beauty standards. I think it's shitty. So while it does make sense for the character, I couldn't help but be irritated that the character was written in such a way that it makes sense.

And as much as I think your analysis of Cherish is right, based on what we know about her, I would point out that a) we get the information about the tattoos from Taylor's pov and b) Cherish isn't really that developed as a character yet at the time of this scene. Wrt your question as to framing, one detail that's relevant to this conversation is how *Taylor* is saddened *for* Cherish because no one will be able to be 'hungry' for Cherish without the tattoos being visible/interfering in that.

Specifically:

Seeing ... the ugly tattoos that guaranteed she would never be able to leave this behind and get a completely fresh start, never have a boy look at her body and just be hungry for her… I had to look away. 

It's *not* just Cherish who thinks the tattoos lower Cherish's sexual value. We don't even know if Cherish thinks that, though, yes, it'd be hard to argue we're not supposed to infer that's what she thinks.

it definitely is interesting to analyse Cherish's choices thru a feminist lens. Like, she's not forced to get a tattoo. She's forced to alter herself, and she chooses the tattoo route. (Though I guess you could argue she would have failed the second round of tests if she hadn't completed Mannequin's challenge with a tattoo again the second time). I could see her choosing to alter herself in a way that cost her her looks (in her own eyes) and cause her distress to be empowering in the long run, if read as her forcing a confrontation with her coping mechanism / beauty standards and a desire to move past her trauma.

*All that being said* I just would love to see a version of this trope that isn't engineered so as to make the character in question still be conventionally attractive albeit with some flaw that can be presented as tragic.

I think Mannequin could well have chosen something more distressing for her. He could have effected her face, for instance. The tattoos are horrible for Cherish, you're right, but something doesn't have to be specific to you to be horrible for you. There are any number of physical changes that would be horrible for Cherish *and* cause her additional distress by being more visible/effecting how other people treat her. There are ways that bod-mods and conventionally unattractive bodily changes CAN do that. I speak from experience here and perhaps that's why the chapter made me roll my eyes so hard.

Cherish the character made choices within the parameters of Mannequin's test that confined her physical change to one area and allowed her control over the extent of the effect the change would have on her life.

(And yeah, the whole 'concealable by clothes' thing has got to be because Wildbow wanted a reveal moment. I respect that. I cannot help how I feel about the the end product that is the sum parts of this chapter.)

I ALSO think that as much as the Nine are written to enjoy making people tick, and giving person-specific trials and punishments, if I were Mannequin or any of the other Nine members who were *so altered as to be unable to pass as human*, or at least so altered as to be unable to pass as not-a-member-of-the-nine, and the pretty girl completed the trial by getting an entirely concealable bod-mod, I'd think that was hilarious and probably kill her.

Like, Jack says this:

it was when you willingly defaced that young, unblemished body of yours that a little something inside of you broke, and you began thinking of yourself as one of us.  Liminality.

That's weird to me. Mr the Slash there are regular non-capes with face tattoos. Yes he's *probably* hurting her with her own self perception. But it's still funny to present a (gross and distressing, yes) torso tattoo as the thing that makes you more similar to a group of fucked up serial killers with no place in regular society than it does like, other people generally.

'Liminality' could be referring to Cherish's feelings of vulnerability, and disconnect from her former place in polite society as a 'young, unblemished' person. Could also refer to the place she's at mentally, her collective identity not quite with the groups it used to be, but not quite with the Nine yet either. It's probably a bit of both, and either interpretation is fascinating. This *is* a good bit of character writing. I just cannot get over that it's about a tattoo, something we have to remember is a decision an author made, regardless of how expertly he's justified it in canon.

To be clear I am not saying definitively that this scene was sexist. Nor am I saying it's not? The discomfort I felt with it is due to what I explained above about how fictional scenarios like this are commonly engineered to play out, and how in many cases this seems based in a fear of making the relevant character *too* unpalatable. Again, nothing you've said is wrong exactly, I just want to explain how I feel in more depth. Didn't expect this to be as long as it got!

I'll definitely be interested to learn how other current Nine members / potential members handle the task, as a comparison point. None of my thoughts are final since I, you know, haven't finished the web series. So far though, I found this a disappointing use of the set-up wrt Mannequin's test.

ur telling me cherish passed that test by getting realistic fucked up tattoos???? sorry what??? absolutely not. theyre all acting like this is soooo awful and thinking about how it makes her less sexy and perfect but like. have u met men. cherish is already hashtag edgy, her target audience is gonna be so turned on by the rotting flesh back tattoo.

[canongf-archive]

hey liv !! i hope 2022 is treating you kindly so far !! i saw that you want to be a model and one of ur goals is to get into it more and i wanna ask... how did you figure out that's what you want to do? sorry if this is too personal, but being a model is something i've considered but there's that nagging thought that i'm not attractive enough for that, do you have any experience with getting rid of those kinds of thoughts? tysm!

💗!!!!! hi hi hi anon !!!!! 💗

2022 has been very kind to me so far!!!!! i hope it's been good to you too!!!!!

pls do not worry, this is not too personal at ALL!!!!! i love love love talking about this kind of thing!!! and i am simply an open book so i will tell you anything you wanna know!!!

honestly!!! it took me a little while to figure out that this is what i wanted to do!!! i went back and forth on it for a while!!! my mom was a model when she was younger so i always knew it was an option, but i really started getting more interested in it as i got older!

(putting it under a read more just bc it got a lil long!!! i’m sorry!!!)

i went to a modeling seminar several years ago where they kind of talked to us about all different kinds of modeling and the modeling industry as a whole and how to get involved and then! we did some photoshoots! and that was really my first time doing that in a professional setting with a professional photographer, getting styled and having my makeup done and stuff and i LOVED it. and the agency that put the seminar on told me that i could have a future in it if i wanted it, so it definitely was in the back of my mind for a while and in the past few years i decided that i wanted to pursue it seriously! i really just love working with the people that you get to work with, i love working with photographers, i love working with stylists and makeup artists, i love doing photoshoots with other models, i love helping to create a vision and getting to see the final result !!!

but i definitely do get those nagging thoughts sometimes! i think everyone does! i think something that helps me is remembering that modeling isn't always about being the most conventionally attractive! it's about owning your own look, whatever that might be. there are so so so many models out there that are not "conventionally attractive" but it doesn't matter! because they're unique and they embrace that fact! (and so many features that aren't considered conventionally attractive are sometimes what agencies and brands LOOK for because they're unique!) so i try not to focus on being the "prettiest", because that's subjective and what society considers pretty changes everyday! i try to focus on just being the most me. i try to focus on what i feel makes me who i am, and i try to embrace the features that i already have!

and! sometimes when you face rejection, it can be hard to not take it personally. it can feel like they're rejecting you for your looks, specifically, and that can hurt! but! it's super important to remember that that's not what they're trying to do. modeling is about selling a product, so when you get rejected it's not about you being too "ugly" or unlikable, it's about an agency or brand just thinking, at this present time, that they just don't think you're right to sell this specific product. or that they do think you're right to sell this specific product, but they already have several people that kinda look like you, and they need to branch out. but that doesn't mean that you're not attractive, or that you're not wanted, or that you'll never have a career in modeling! what one brand or agency doesn't want on a certain day, another brand or agency could be searching high and low for it! and it's even possible that the same brand or agency that rejected you once could want you back in a year!

all this to say! if this is something you wanna do, then do it. there's always a place for you if you want it. and if there isn't, then you can make a place. we're in this together!!! i believe in you, anon!!!!! 💗

[schrodingersbisexuals]

God do you ever feel like you need to step into another gay woman's shoes to see what attraction to girls is "supposed" to feel like because you think you're forcing it?? Cause I feel really gross like idk when I'm attracted to a girl I don't get like. Turned on as fast as I do with a guy. And I feel like I'm forcing myself to "like" girls that I think are pretty. And I know I'm bi like I know that I wouldn't make myself be bi if I were straight but like I guess how do I past this

I don’t ever feel as though I am forcing it because I am super attracted to women, but you honestly may just have a preference and that is completely normal! Just because you don’t get immediately turned on at the sight of a woman does not mean that you do not ever experience an attraction to women. I am that way about men. There were times when I used to feel as though I was a lesbian because my attraction to women makes up about 90% of my bisexuality. However, I am in an amazing relationship with a guy. My huge attraction to women does not negate my attraction and love for my boyfriend. A lot of the “conventionally pretty” women may just not be your type. Bi erasure makes people doubt themselves a lot. My advice is to remind yourself that being bisexual is not as black and white as straight people want to believe it is. As for getting past it, I recommend just trusting how you feel. You don’t have to prove yourself to anyone to be bi. Your attraction to someone is not always about sexual attraction. People try so hard to make bisexual people feel invalid, but the way you are feeling is a product of societal biphobia and bi erasure, it is not because you “aren't gay enough”. I know it is hard to feel valid when you are doubting yourself, so I am saying it again. You are valid in having different types of attraction for men than you do for women. I hope this helps!

[melles1276]

That’s the encouragement that I need so desperately most of the time during the writing process. Thanks 🙏

A reminder to all my lovely fellow writers: progress is progress, even when it isn't. Writing four thousand words in a session is progress. Writing a hundred words in a session is progress. Removing an entire scene because it doesn't flow well is progress. Rethinking your plan for the plot in order to get unstuck is progress. Development looks different for every writer and every story.