#I know Nomura said that the voice in Sora's Dive is Mickey

[lockandkeyblade]

Dive to the Heart

Of much more significance than the ceremonial aspects of the Ceremony of Inheritance is a wielder’s first Dive to the Heart.

This phenomenon has been externally witnessed and monitored by masters throughout history, and is described as the wielder “staring off into space, eyes unfocused and a hand often gravitating upwards to clutch at the chest” [1]. Those undergoing the Dive are unresponsive to most external stimuli, and it has been debated as to whether or not this state can be likened to a manner of dreaming.

A Dive to the Heart is usually witnessed within a new bearer shortly after undertaking their Keyblade Inheritance, and is a requirement prior to first summoning a Keyblade. Master Dolar notes that this may be attributed to the bearer witnessing the most intimate depths of their heart, in order to undergo a series of trials that help define their ideals and personal growth. It is from this that a Keyblade gains its form. [2]

The location of the trials one undertakes whilst in a state of Diving has been titled the Heart Station, or Stations. Pillars of immense size that rise from the darkness, often decorated with colorful renditions of significant people, places, and objects that have defined the bearer’s journey to that point. Stations have been known to change throughout time, just as the priorities of a bearer are inclined to change as they grow.

It has been recommended by some that, throughout an apprentice’s training, a Dive to the Heart should be undertaken on the anniversary of their Inheritance Ceremony. This allows the student to recognise aforementioned changes in priorities, and better convey to their master how best to continue their education. [3]

[1] From the Memoirs of Master Visus, retelling the account of the XXXXVII quarterly Ceremony of Inheritance [2] From Master to Mentor: Conceptualizing the Growths and Needs of Apprentices, page 37 [3] From Master to Mentor: Conceptualizing the Growths and Needs of Apprentices, page 39

-Except from From Master to Mentor: Abridged Revision

[passive-t-u-m-b-l-r-user]

For those who don't know, or are confused,

Super Smash Brothers is NOT canon to Kingdom Hearts in any way.

There have been some quotes running around that made it confusing. Nomura said in an interview that he wanted to make sure that the lore surrounding the character was correct. NOT that Smash is canon to Kingdom Hearts. The question in this poll was worded with a confusing double negative.

The correct answer to this poll of what DIDN'T happen:

They DID NOT scrap a world from the movie Atlantis: The Lost Empire or Atlantis: Milo's Return.

Everything else on the list did happen.

1.) The player character from KHUχ is briefly alluded to having reincarnated into Xehanort. This is later proven false.

2.) Thousands of kids are killed in the Keyblade War of Kingdom Hearts χ [Chi]. One child is killed explicitly.

3.) Riku is shown to be able to sense Darkness in Chain of Memories through his sense of smell. Nobodies are also hinted towards having the same ability. (There is a possibility that there was a translation error, but this is heresay on my part. Do your own research.)

4.) Sora in smash is not canon. This is a correct statement.

5.) It's been stated by Pixar, that the events of Kingdom Hearts III's Toy Box are canon to the events of the Toy Story series. This however really has no bearing on either series, so take it or leave it.

6.) What I believe they are referring to is Donald Duck's use of Zettaflare? But Donald has killed so many Pirates, helped kill Shan yu, and delt the final blow with Sora against Xehanort.

7.) This is an easy one. No matter which iteration, there have always been more than 13 members in Organization XIII.

Original: Xemnas I, Xigbar II, Xaldin III, Vexen IV, Lexaeus V, Zexion VI, Saïx VII, Axel VIII, Demyx IX, Luxord X, Marluxia XI, Larxene XII, Roxas XIII, Xion XIV

The REAL Organization XIII: Master Xehanort I, Ansem II, Xemnas III, Xigbar IV, Luxord V, Larxene VI, Marluxia VII, Saïx VIII, Terra-Xehanort IX, Dark Riku X, Vanitas XI, Young Xehanort XII, Xion XIII, Vexen (XIV Reserve), Demyx (XV Reserve)

8.) At the Dive To The Heart in the beginning of KH1, there is a disembodied voice represented entirely through text. It is fully muted, and is indeed coming from King Mickey.

9.) There was never an Atlantis world. As least not one discussed in any way the public could be aware of.

10.) During the battle of Hollow Bastion in Kingdom Hearts II, Leon (Squall) and Cloud fight side by side against the onslaught. It admittedly has a bit of homoerotic tension. Nothing explicit.

11.) Xaldin, the third member of the original Organization XIII gave Beast an ultimatum: Choose Belle, or the Rose he's bound to. Belle frees herself from captivity after this question is posed by elbowing Xaldin and taking the Rose back to Beast.

12.) Remy, refered to as "Little Chef", is the head Chef at Le Grand Bistro in Twilight Town. The Bistro is owned an opperated by Donald's uncle, Scrooge McDuck.

the kingdom hearts facts poll but its hard mode

[echoofmidnight]

Vanitas might be the KH1 mysterious voice

at least in the Sora’s station.

(Look, I know Nomura said once that it’s Mickey, but that’s boring and Sora didn’t have a keyblade yet or know Mickey. Also there’s no way Mickey could speak into his mind, so I choose to ignore that comment from Nomura.) 

I was just rereading Vanitas’ character file from KH3 and at the beginning he thinks, “But darkness is in everything. Look, it's there right by your feet, isn't it? Your shadow. The stronger the light, the deeper the shadow it casts.”

This phrase may sound familiar, because it is almost the same as what the mysterious voice tells Sora at the beginning of KH1 when he first wakes up during the Dive to the Heart sequence. And it got me thinking about a lot of stuff in regards to everyone’s favourite dark-haired void gear wielding boy. 

I’ve always liked to think that the voice was Ventus, because I thought it would be cute and make sense for him to subconsciously prepare Sora in case he ever inherited a keyblade one day. 

But upon reflection, this may actually make more sense in some ways if it is Vanitas. 

Oh Vanitas… you wonderfully confusing character. I love you so dearly yet like many of your other fans, also always have such a hard time placing you among the other KH characters. You originate from Darkness in KHUX and killed Strelitzia, yet are half of Ventus. You helped Xehanort and are a nort, yet clearly show distain towards him. You almost killed Aqua, Ven, and Mickey multiple times, yet seem to care in your own way for certain individuals, like Sora by constantly lending your power to him when he needs it. 

My favourite Vanitas quote is the one near the end of KH3, when he says to Sora, “Because I am darkness. And I do stand by your side. I'm the shadow that you cast. How much closer could I be?”

I remember being so excited post-KH3 when we all realized that in Anti and Rage Form Sora doesn’t have a shadow and is therefore not only drawing on his own powers but also Vanitas’. This also has the fun little added fact that when Xehanort forces Sora into Rage Form during their final fight at the end of KH3, this means Vanitas gets a little Xehanort murder as a treat. AND this provides us with the added excitement of the possibility that Vanitas is still inside Sora’s heart since we never saw him leave in KH3 and the Vanitas that faded was him from the past. Present day Vanitas is still missing. Could be in Ven, but more fun if he’s in Sora imo.

Vanitas’ theme is in the Heroes and Heroines Medley, he was heavily promoted in merch for KH3 (more so than any other villain-associated character), he was grouped with the traitors in the 20th anniversary artwork, he has been lending Sora his power and protection in ways we have evidence of in gameplay since KH2. Taking into account his willingness to protect Sora, I don’t think it’s too much of a reach to argue that he had been protecting Sora pre-KH2 also.

So I don’t actually think it would be too unbelievable to think that Vanitas may have been the mysterious voice at the very beginning of KH1. This literal baby on the Destiny Islands not only gave Vanitas an appearance and voice, but also a repaired heart and a home, albeit not because Vanitas asked for those things. But hey, Vanitas is the type of guy who’s never really been given anything good, so I don’t think he would necessarily hate this. Vanitas “opens the door” too at the beginning of BBS. You can hear his voice when Sora first connects with Ven. Plus Sora as a baby, as a four-year old, and as a teenager in KH3 always gives Vanitas chances and help when he thinks Vanitas needs it. He wants Vanitas on his side. 

Even though it is kinda mocking in KH3, he is one of the only KH villains to actually help Sora by telling him about his past and origins in a way that is actually helpful towards Sora’s mission in saving everyone. Whenever Sora is trying to place Ven’s location later in the game, he or someone else always bring up what Vanitas said for reference. 

What I’m trying to get at is that Vanitas is so closely entwined with Sora, and seems to want to protect him most of the time, and hey those lent powers and keyblade and heartless tips could be just because Vanitas has the smallest sense of self-preservation and Sora is his host, or it could be like I said, because he’s come to actually care in a way for Sora. And hey, from what we’ve seen Sora cares about him too.

Anyway, Sora and Vanitas Quadratum adventures please, Nomura

[nadziejastar]

I’m glad the creators want to emphasize thatCloud’s “badass, silent dude” personality was just a fake persona he created. I think a lot of fans had the misconception that was his true personality all along.

Warning: FVII Spoilers

Nomura: “While Cloud may look this way, he was a dork. I believe those of you who played the the original would understand what I mean by saying he’s a dorky character.”

I totally agree. I think a lot of people aren’t good at picking up subtle characterization, especially since the original game didn’t have advanced cutscenes or voice acting. Cloud always seemed like a dork to me after I learned he really had dissociative identity disorder and his whole SOLDIER thing was just a persona--an alter. Barret knew it, and made fun of him. So many people complained that Cloud was OOC in Advent Children and I remember feeling confused because I really didn’t think he was? He was depressed, but it seemed realistic after everything he’d been through.

“In severe cases of mental splitting when the extreme pain drives that person into disassociation, at the moment the person disassociates from their body, the soul-psyche manifest coping mechanisms to survive. To disassociate from the painful trauma felt in the body, the soul and mind will split into sub personalities, or create alternate identities. These are called alters.”

While we’re on the topic of Cloud’s fake badass silent persona, the way Tifa repairs Cloud’s fractured mind in FFVII always reminded me of the power of waking in KH. I’m sure FFVII was the precursor to this idea. Cloud developed his badass persona when he watched Zack get murdered right in front of him. He dissociated and took on a tough guy alter in order to cope.

Sora turned around. Empty husks? Is he saying they’re going to break them with sorrow and put another heart into them…? Or did they already do it?

“Translation—they were gonna turn all the members into Xehanort.”

“Make more Xehanorts?” You’re hollowing out people’s hearts to put Xehanort’s inside them?!

In order to turn people into Xehanorts, they had to break the person’s psyche with pain. That way, the Xehanort “alter” can take over the body. I’m sure that’s what the mind control experiments were about.

You could say Cloud’s heart was in the Realm of Sleep, like Ventus’s was when he first met Terra and Aqua. He was unable to talk and he was not really aware of his surroundings. Cloud’s mind was in pieces and Tifa had to “dive” inside his psyche to repair him and restore him to completeness.

KH3′s tagline was “face your fears”. When I write my KH3 rewrite fic, I wanna give each of the Seven Guardians one of these segments to fully explore their fractured psyche. A time for them to face their insecurities and fears, and actually show them being healed. That’s THE biggest thing I think KH3 was missing. Before waking up, each character needed a Tifa to help them piece themselves together. Riku got swallowed by the Demon Tower in the beginning. I think the Demon Tower was supposed to be something that causes you to be trapped in your worst nightmare. Then he’d have to face his fears with the help of Mickey. His “other self”. He’d have to confront all his insecurities and his guilt over feeling like it was his fault Destiny Island got destroyed.

Mickey got swallowed by the Demon Tower later on. Then he had to deal with his guilt over feeling like he failed Aqua and left her to rot in the Dark Realm. I think the Dark Aqua boss fight was probably originally supposed to be part of Mickey’s nightmare that Riku was trying to wake him from. All the things she said sounded like a reflection of Mickey’s worst fears. And that darkness bubble thing looked like the same thing Sora was trapped in at the end of KH3D, when he was in the nightmare.

I think ALL the main characters, including Sora, were supposed to get a segment like that to give their arcs closure. Sora would have to dive into the abyss at the beach (the KH equivalent of the Lifestream that Cloud fell into). That beach is basically the collective unconscious. All of Sora’s sleeping memories (of Castle Oblivion/Namine, Roxas, and Xion) would have to be confronted. And after that, he’d have to help Aqua face her worst feelings, which was that she failed to save Ven and Terra.

The whole opening of 0.2 foreshadowed the part where Sora would wake Aqua up. Sora didn’t really connect with her heart in KH3 or help her face her fears, though. The whole saving Aqua thing felt so rushed. I think higher ups at either Square or Disney thought that a AAA game like KH3 shouldn’t “waste” so much time with exploring the characters’ psyches and the story needed to move at a faster pace. But we missed out on so much.

I’m sure Ven was supposed to face his fears of feeling like he failed Terra. Lea would have to face his fear that he abandoned Isa for his new best friends and forgot all about him. He’d have a lot of guilt over that and he’d have to face a Nightmare Saix which would be the manifestation of all his worst fears. Honestly, I’m sure the FFVII Remake will do a better job demonstrating the power of waking than KH3. Which is sad.

Back to Cloud. In Crisis Core, you see a shy insecure kid who can’t even face Tifa. That’s the real Cloud. The part of himself he can’t accept.

Cloud never even really wanted to be a SOLDIER for its own sake.

He just wanted to accomplish something. He was lonely and depressed and thought a man was “supposed to be” a soldier. He just wanted to be noticed by Tifa. And Tifa didn’t know this. She genuinely thought Cloud was just a typical boy who wanted to leave home so he could fight in the war.

She took care of him during his time of weakness. And the whole point of FFVII was that Cloud was “weak”. I liked that he wasn’t the generic badass hero who simply “won” the girl by being strong and cool. And it made me like Tifa, too. At first, she wanted her and Cloud to fulfill the stereotypical heterosexual relationship roles. She told Cloud that when she was in trouble, her hero would come rescue her. Then Tifa got to know the real Cloud.

He loved her. But he wasn’t really that heroic. Even his mom thought he needed a girlfriend that would take care of him. But Tifa accepted him anyways, even when he didn’t live up to her knight in shining armor fantasy. She got her relationship with him, with all its flaws. She was HIS hero, actually. I liked that because FFVII was really the first game I ever played where the main couple had what I thought was genuine intimacy instead of simply the girl being the “prize”. And I LOVE FFVII. After he is pieced back together, Cloud acts completely differently. He isn’t cocky or cool. He seemed humble, quiet, and not so much a natural “leader” type.

Zack was the badass everyone thought Cloud was. He took care of Cloud after they were experimented on and Cloud was broken. I cannot help but think that Lea and Isa’s past was originally similar to theirs after being experimented on. Crisis Core was an inspiration for me in imagining their past. Lea is similar to Zack. Cheerful, confident, resilient, and heroic. Very compassionate, too. The way he talked to Cloud even when he was “broken” was very sweet. And I think Isa was similar to Cloud who is more sensitive, vulnerable, and needy. Cloud mentally fractured after watching Zack die in front of him. I wanted to write something similar with Lea and Isa. Isa mentally shatters because he witnessed Lea lose his heart. :)

[the-sayuri-rin]

@djetan9282 replied to your post“Choose your answer to this: Plot twist, the mysterious voice who says...”

  Are people still saying it's someone else even though Nomura said years ago it's Mickey and that's final              

I myself didn’t know he said that MIckey was person speaking to sora during the dive to heart, I never got to read some of his interviews. Not sure about anyone else though

[nadziejastar]

I think it was TOTALLY bastardized. Like, to the point where it was a joke. It would be funny if it weren’t so sad. The fact that a large portion of people didn’t even know what the power of waking was after they beat KH3, shows how poorly it was handled. This had a devastating effect on the story because unlocking and using the power of waking was the foundation of each character’s arc. The characters are all Guardians of Light, but it didn’t really seem to mean very much in KH3. Therefore, they had most of their important character development taken away from them. 

The power of waking was supposed to be the most important aspect of the plot. I suspect there are two major reasons that the power of waking was ruined. The first reason is that after KH0.5 was cancelled, it was very hard to incorporate. Ansem’s research was supposed to be a major focus of KH0.5. The second reason is that from a gameplay perspective, it is unconventional. Nomura said that he wasn’t even allowed to have each of the characters fight their OWN boss fights at the Keyblade Graveyard because that would be “too much story”. He had to keep it to the minimum necessary to move Sora forward. So, the demands of AAA gaming seem to be a big factor in why we weren’t allowed many “dive into the heart” segments.

Sora

Kairi’s Grandma: The darkness spread, swallowing the light and many people's hearts. It covered everything, and the world disappeared. But small fragments of light survived, in the hearts of children.

Sora was supposed to be the key. He’d use the power of waking on everybody at the end, because he was special. He has the pure heart of a child and the ability to easily connect with the hearts of others. He still rescues everyone when their hearts are captured by the Lich, but we probably were supposed to get a lot more story segments of him diving into each character’s heart one by one, and bringing them back. Sora’s relationship with them would receive individual attention.

Ansem the Wise: Surely we remember as children the way our hearts made everything seem so shiny, and perfect. Sora has a heart like that--uncorrupted, willing to see the good before the bad. When he sees the heart in something, it then becomes real. When a connection seems broken, he may have the power to mend it.

Sora actually did use the power of waking; he collected the fragments of someone and put them back together. But he uses this power on...himself? Um, it made no sense for him to be collecting the pieces of himself. The whole point of the power of waking is that when you are fractured, someone else has to help you return to the Realm of Light. I obviously can’t know this for sure, but I suspect that Nomura wasn’t allowed to have you play as anyone else during this segment. Just like at the Keyblade Graveyard, he had to keep everything to the minimum necessary to move the plot forward. Cutting the story up like this made it so that nothing really made sense.

Kairi

Sora: I was lost in the darkness. I couldn’t find my way. As I stumbled through the dark, I started forgetting things—my friends, who I was. The darkness almost swallowed me. But then I heard a voice—your voice. You brought me back.

Kairi: I didn’t want to just forget about you, Sora. I couldn’t.

Sora: That’s it! Our hearts are connected. And the light from our hearts broke through the darkness. I saw that light. I think that’s what saved me. No matter how deep the darkness, a light shines within. I guess it’s more than just a fairy tale.

Kairi was Sora’s light within the darkness, both in KH1 and CoM. I am quite confident that we were actually supposed to play as KAIRI while collecting the fragments of Sora in the Final World. And it was supposed to happen after Terra and Isa were defeated. There was no need to have time rewind. The Demon Tide doesn’t kill you. 

I mean, all it did to Riku physically was give him a stylish haircut. No, it exists to usher your heart to the deepest abyss. Kairi’s arc was set up so she could finally NOT be the damsel in distress. She is a natural at using the power of waking because she’s a Princess of Heart. She’s the only one Sora didn’t need to rescue. That should have been how her arc ended. Not with getting kidnapped and killed...

Riku and Mickey

Mickey: Listen, Riku. Just because darkness holds you, don't let go of who you are. You've got to fight the darkness inside you! It won't be easy to do, I know. But please don't forget. Even in the darkest darkness, there's always a little bit of light.

Riku: Light within darkness...

Mickey: You and I have seen it. The far welcoming light inside the door to darkness... The light of Kingdom Hearts---it will show you the way. Please don't give up. Believe in the light. That's a request from my heart.

Riku: Okay... I'll do my best.

Mickey: Trust me. I'll try to find a way to reach you. I'll get there, I promise.

I am sure that Riku and Mickey were supposed to use the power of waking on each other. Early on when they first arrive in the Realm of Darkness, Riku is swallowed up by the Demon Tide, and he was knocked unconscious. Well, getting swallowed up by the Demon Tide should do a LOT more to a person than that. At the Keyblade Graveyard, Aqua was terrified of the Demon Tide. She lost the will to fight when she saw it. It traumatized her that badly. 

Riku: There's no point in doing this if I can't do it on my own. But I do need a favor. If Ansem is the victor, he's going to enslave me. If that happens, use your powers to destr---

Mickey: O'course! I'll be right there to save ya!

Riku: Huh? No that's not it. I want you to destr---

Mickey: No way! No matter what happens, I'm gonna be right there to help ya. I promise ya that. Unless...you don't believe I'll come through for ya...

Riku: I choose to believe in you---always, Your Majesty.

Mickey: And I in you. You're not gonna lose, I know it.

Riku should have gotten a lot more than a new haircut after that ordeal. I bet that Mickey was supposed to use the power of waking on Riku after he was swallowed up by the Demon Tide. This should have been when Riku finished his arc with “Ansem”. After all, Riku gets a new Keyblade afterwards, one without the gazing eye on it. 

Mickey: Your darkness belongs to you. Just the same way your light does. Up till now, I thought darkness was something that should never exist. Then I spent time with you and changed my mind. The road you chose---I didn't know. Light and dark, back to back. With you, I think they might meet in a way nobody's seen before. Wonder where that road leads. I'd like to see myself.

Riku: Hm?

Mickey: I'd like to walk the road with ya.

Mickey was randomly knocked unconscious during the battle with Anti-Aqua. He carried a lot of personal guilt over her fate. I think that would have been Riku’s turn to use the power of waking on Mickey.

Ventus/Roxas

Eraqus: Forgive me…but you must exist no more.

Nomura originally said Roxas was born with Ventus’s heart. So, he would be very difficult to wake up because he’s gone through his worst nightmare multiple times. His heart almost collapsed, and he lost all his memories. Sora gave him a second chance, then Eraqus, Terra, and Aqua helped him recover. But then he was told he was a weapon that wasn’t supposed to exist. He would rather sacrifice himself than lose Terra or Aqua, so he accepts his fate to disappear. He loses everything, then goes back to sleep inside of Sora. When Sora became a Heartless, Ventus became separated from him and he was found by Xemnas. He became Roxas.

Roxas: I mean, when I think of losing you and Xion, or my memories of you...to forget what it’s like to be with my friends… it is scary.

Roxas has no memories of his past, but becomes close to Axel and Xion. But he’s a Nobody who is constantly told that he’s not supposed to exist. His greatest fear was losing his friends or forgetting about them. Xion disappears and he forgets her, and he loses his trust that Axel was ever his friend in the first place. Then Riku defeats him, he has all of his memories wiped, and is put into the data Twilight Town. There he becomes close to Hayner, Pence, and Olette.

Naminé: You…you were never supposed to exist, Roxas.

Roxas: What…? How could you even say such a thing…even if it were true?

Naminé: I’m sorry. I guess some things really are better left unsaid.

Then he’s told he was never supposed to exist, so he’ll never get to see those friends again. They were just fake anyways. He has to disappear so Sora can live. The third time is just too much for him and that’s when he went to the Realm of Sleep and didn’t want to come back. He endured a lot before he reached his absolute breaking point. At that point, he would be far too fractured to be brought back like before, where Terra and Axel just needed to reach out and show him friendship. Xemnas thought his heart might awaken when Axel sacrificed himself for Sora. But even that wasn’t enough. There’s no reason he should have returned as easily as he did in KH3. 

Terra and Aqua

Terra: Yep, hard to believe there are so many worlds out there besides our own. The light is their hearts, and it's shining down on us like a million lanterns.

Ven: What? I don't get it.

Terra: In other words, they're just like you, Ven.

The Wayfinder Trio was obviously supposed to use the power of waking on each other. Sora was supposed to awaken the sleeping memories inside of him. Since he would have access to Ven’s memories and feelings, he’d be able to use the power of waking to rescue Aqua. When Aqua was revived, they went to wake Ventus. Vanitas arrives and there’s a boss fight. Whaddya know, Aqua gets randomly knocked unconscious. This is right after she says she doesn’t want to be seen as weak, too. This is no doubt when she was supposed to use the power of waking on Ventus. 

Yen Sid: I will tell you what your friend needs right now. It is not your protection. He needs you to believe. You see, Ventus's heart hangs in the balance. It sleeps in the place between light and darkness. From all I can perceive, that means he will be looking for a friend--one who believes in him, to show him the way home. Just as long as you love him...then Ventus will be able to find you when he wakes. He can follow that love back to where he belongs--the realm of light.

Just as Vanitas was going to stab Aqua like he almost did in BBS, Ventus intervenes. That was the right stimulus to awaken his heart. Hayner, Pence, and Olette may have helped, too. They would get their memories of Roxas back, and them believing would contribute to Ventus being led back to the Realm of Light. Then of course, Ventus would be the one to use the power of waking on Terra. Ven was randomly knocked unconscious at the Keyblade Graveyard. Well, I doubt that was a coincidence. He was supposed to be inside of Terra’s heart, where he’d find him in the darkness. Terra was crying when he said Ven found him. I’m sure the search for Terra’s heart was going to be a lot more in-depth than what we saw, which was very rushed. Lea and Isa’s subplot with the power of waking was so horrendous, it needs it own post. So that will be Part 2.