#I have Feelings about G1d
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adolin · 2 years ago
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"In general, I get the vibe that Pyrrha was the more dominant personality and I think Gideon really wished she had been the necromancer of the pair and that he could be the one to get eaten to fuel her power instead" Holy shit how does it feel to have the biggest brain in the history of everything?
Also I definitely agree about G1d just not fucking lyctors. John thought he was legendarily unamourous because he wouldn't take part in the sexy parties. Because to John, if you don't want to fuck Augustine and Mercy, you must have no desire to have sex with anyone at all. He has such a high opinion of his best worsties and I think that's very hot of him.
THANK YOU!! LMAO but I think I actually stole that bit of analysis from @/theriverbeyond during one of our many "I have Feelings about G1deon today" conversations. It's now canon (To Me!) I think it's telling that John calls it "Pyrrha's trial", that Pyrrha collaborated to the experiments of different necromancers, personally founded the Cohort, and as a Lyctor G1deon seems to have fallen into the role that she shaped.
Also I laughed irl at "if you don't want to fuck Augustine and Mercy, you must have no desire to have sex with anyone at all." You'r SO RIGHT they are a massive psychosexually obsessed mess and John is like, what do you mean you think my besties aren't hot? Do you even have eyes??
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lockedtombbrainworms · 1 year ago
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Oh no yet more emotions about the duplicitous sluts...
Firstly, I think it's entirely possible G1deon could've figured out what the fuck was going on. If I'm honest, he's too clever not to, except I have a feeling Pyrrha was less "go]ing] underground, even from him" and more prodding G1d away from thinking about her.
Speaking candidly as someone who is actually sharing a body with several people (and who views G1d and Pyrrha as... if not a 1:1 map for DID, certainly a decent allegory for it), it is 100% possible for a sufficiently determined person living in your brain to make it so that every time you try to think about a certain thing, you experience a very strong mental "push" away from thinking about whatever the "thing" is. Most often, it's trauma, in my experience, but it can be a bit broader than that. In my case, before I had all this shit as well-figured-out as I did, one of the things I couldn't think about was the fact that I might not be the only one inhabiting my body, because someone in here found the idea of that utterly terrifying, and even non-consciously, they were able to deflect my thoughts away from thinking about that. That was a powerful enough effect that I knew and was friends with other plural systems for about six years before I realised that maybe "I" was one as well. As for whether Pyrrha could've pulled that shit off for ten thousand years? I honestly don't know - in my case, trying not to think about the plural shit was a maladaptive coping mechanism, but trying to stop your system host from thinking about being plural is a lot less maladaptive when there's at least some level of possibility that something horrendous will happen to one or both of you if the host figures it all out. We don't know enough about what happened with Anastasia and Samael to say for sure, but at least some of the lyctors might've come away from that with a very clear idea of how John would react in a situation where someone didn't consume their cavalier's soul entirely.
It's entirely possible Pyrrha didn't even realise she was doing it, most of it would've come while he was conscious and she wasn't, and a lot of it could've been subconscious. Of course the other possibility is that G1deon himself spent that myriad dealing with enough cognitive dissonance around the idea of Pyrrha being present that she didn't have to do anything to repress it herself. Would G1deon let himself think about something like that, something he knew he might have to keep from John? By the time the books take place he obviously doesn't care about keeping some secrets, what with the Wake thing, but "something else is going on with the lyctor process and maybe our cavaliers didn't have to die, and maybe you lied to us" is probably a bigger thing for him emotionally than "I'm banging one of your enemies".
Anyway he's far too tragic a character and I could make a pretty compelling argument for his character arc not quite being complete, so maybe we'll get more G1d in Alecto, or in a short story associated with either NTN or ATN, or something. I can hope.
Thinking about G1deon and Pyrrha on this fine morning. Like. Pyrrha implies that her necromancer wasn't aware that her soul was still around, but. He's not stupid. This man was an engineer who helped build spacefaring tech. I find it very hard to believe that over thousands of years, he experienced blackouts and gaps in his memory and didn't at least suspect that this was going on. Especially during his affair with Wake - there is no way she never dropped a comment even hinting at how there's sometimes another person inhabiting his body.
Imagine thinking your best friend and platonic (?) life partner is dead and gone, only to start suspecting your memory gaps and increasingly tenuous grasp on reality are really just her still being around - but before you can confirm or deny these suspicions, you just fucking die because none of your shitty siblings in lyctorhood thought it important enough to help you fight a goddamn RB.
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rusty-k · 4 years ago
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A Theory About the Saint of Duty
[HTN/TLT SPOILERS]
Hey TLT people--
There was a reddit thread about the Saint of Duty the other day (link), and I commented some G1deon thoughts of mine that’ve been brewing in my head for a while. I figured I’d bring them to the tumblr tag to open up some discussion and see if anyone else buys this theory, or honestly just to spread some G1deon love. (I imprint on minor characters; it’s a curse.)
This is more or less copied from my reddit comment word-for-word, but here’s some general thought on Gideon the First’s personality, and why I have a theory that he might’ve lobotomized himself like Harrow:
G1deon character thoughts
G1deon as we know him in HtN is likely very different from the man he must've been 10,000 years ago. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he changed significantly between the start of the Wake affair and the events of book 2.
More so than any of the other Lyctors, Gideon and Pyrrha seemed to have had this strong synergy going on. Unlike most necros, Gideon is a buff beef jerky man, and we see two rapiers in G&P's room. The winnowing/construct trial is also referred to as "Pyrrha's trial," which has always struck me as a curious detail and suggests to me that Pyrrha knew more about necromancy than cavs generally do. We know that the saintly epithets refer to the cavs, in general, but I don't think that was exactly the case for G&P; based on the previously stated, I believe they were both equally dutiful people, willing to throw themselves into each other's studies and share each other's skills.
Aug and Mercy were forced to rush their Lyctorization process because of their reckless cavs, and G1deon was next, but the fact that Pyrrha compartmentalized suggests they were closer to figuring it out than Aug and Mercy were--which I think is greatly due to the harmony of their relationship.
We know from what the other Lyctors & John have said that Gid loved and respected Pyrrha deeply. I wouldn't be surprised if the ferocity with which he threw himself into his saintly work over the 10,000 years emerged--at least partially, if not primarily--from his devotion to her. There's Pyrrha, the most spectacular cav and an all-around badass, and Gideon--having taken her to fuel his ascension--acting as John's attack dog with an intensity that would make her sacrifice worthwhile.
It's difficult to gauge how much Gideon actually enjoyed any of this; John seems to think he did, but I wouldn’t trust John for shit, and I'm sure John's understanding of G1d is heavily skewed in his own favor.
I think it's also important to consider Pyrrha's side of this story as it relates to G1deon’s current state, as well as the Wake affair. Her actions raise several questions. First of all, how long did it take for her to realize that she could take control of his body? How exactly did it happen, the first time? And how aware is Gideon? Does he have any inkling at all? Is there something more to his forgetfulness, something purposeful?
I have to imagine that in any case, Pyrrha must have gone through a lot over those 10,000 years. 10,000 years of odd sensory deprivation, which was probably hell for a fiery badass like P. 10,000 years of watching Gideon put up with John's bullshit, of watching the other Lyctors die off one-by-one and accumulate a host of mental, physical, and emotional scars. I'm convinced that Pyrrha's relationship with "duty" changed over the course of the years as she watched from this disembodied perspective, and that her "treachery" against John (her affair with Wake & possibly feeding intel to the BoE) was just a natural progression of that change.
When Wake factors in, I'd bet good money that the driving factor in both Pyrrha and Gideon's attraction to her is that she reminds them both of Pyrrha. Hell, Pyrrha even says this outright: "She was the most dangerous woman I'd ever met who wasn't me." I imagine that P's attraction to Wake, beyond this cool display of cockiness, also emerged from a sort of nostalgia--maybe Wake reminds her of what life used to be when she had a body, when she could fight and command, when she had a cause to occupy her energy. On G1d's side, he sees a woman who's dedicated and dutiful, even if it's for an enemy faction, and a woman who would undeniably make one hell of a cavalier (I think someone says this in HtN, although I'm forgetting who, so correct me if I’m wrong). I'm sure there's nostalgia in it for him, too.
Then, there's elephant in the room: Wake's fiery red hair and Pyrrha's name, meaning "flame-colored." I'm convinced that at least some of the similarities were physical. And at the bottom of it all is the inherent sexiness of finding a worthy opponent who's also hot. Lol.
Gideon Prime Lobotomy Time(?)
Here's where things get squirrelly for me, and the main reason why I have a theory that G1d's current state might be partially self-inflicted.
G&P were having discrete affairs with Wake, which inherently brings up logistical questions. First of all, how? And how exactly did Wake come to "kiss" Gideon "before she realized what they were?" How long were the durations of time in which Pyrrha kept his body under her control? In any case, after Wake & Gideon initiated their leg of the affair, it continued throughout the two years up until Gideon Jr.'s birth, which implies that Gideon Prime had some agency and willfulness in all of it. It's difficult to imagine the permanently-spaced-out-thousand-yard-stare man we know in HtN actively participating in such an entanglement.
Of course, I’ll acknowledge that it's entirely possible that I'm wrong, and that Wake just jumps his bones when she feels like it, and he's like "ok I guess," so take this as you will; but I'd like to put forth the suggestion that G1d's memory loss and overall lack of lucidity might be self-inflicted, to the tune of Harrow's lobotomy. We don't know how aware Gideon is of Pyrrha's presence, but it does seem to be the case that Lyctors having an awareness of the cav is dangerous for the cav. Being an accomplished necromancer, I'm sure Gideon was/is a smart man. Pyrrha mentions that she was "able to go underground" from him, but what if Gideon started to catch on to Pyrrha's presence through the double-affair? What if Wake let something slip? What if the thing that Wake didn't realize about them was the fact that Pyrrha's survival depends on Gideon's lack of awareness?
What if he lobotomized himself at some point, after catching onto Pyrrha's presence, at the expense of his sanity?
What really strikes me is the post-incinerator scene (HtN ch.31, pg. 292 in the hardcover):
The Saint of Duty turned his body toward you. He was clutching his rapier; but it was idle ... His eyebrows were very slightly drawn together, a sort of exhausted crinkle. He looked at you, and he said in a voice you had known since you were eight years old: "I sometimes--forget."
It was the tone--clinical, enamelled, half-defensive, half-endangered--the tone of someone admitting a final fraily. It was familiar because you had used it yourself. Understand I am insane.
It's his quiet resolution that does it for me; he knows something's missing, and he's accepted it. He's being set up as a parallel to Harrow in this particular moment, and it just makes me wonder if the parallel goes beyond his understanding of his own “insanity” and extends to the means by which he has become "insane." 
Pyrrha's already being set up as a parallel to Gideon Jr., both in terms of her formerly-skewed sense of duty and her compartmentalization, so I think this sort of dual-parallel between G1d and Harrow would work nicely, if only from a meta perspective.
In short, I think Gideon the First's feelings on everything that happened are complex, fraught. I think "duty" is what defined much of his personality, and I think what we see of him now is the result of split senses of duty having torn him apart:
he's torn between his devotion to Pyrrha (and by extension, ironically, his devotion to John) and his interest in (and perhaps love for) Wake;
torn between John's command to kill Harrow and whatever it is that caused him to pull punches (I'm guessing a combination of basic decency and solidarity); and
at the end of it all, he's quietly accepting of his own "frailty," understanding that the current situation is the shitty result of everything that's happened over the past myriad, and that there's likely no way to set himself straight, even though his shortcomings put him in direct conflict with the man he's "supposed to be," according to this awful religion, and according to what others think of him.
Anyway, for those who’ve stuck around, that’s all I have to say for now! I’m just so fascinated by the Saint of Duty/the Pyrwakeon story that’s going on behind the scenes; there’s such an understated intensity to it, and honestly, it didn’t even hit me until months after my first read-through. 
I’m curious to hear what other people are thinking, too!
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adolin · 2 years ago
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OK I think I've recovered from Go Go Go Reverend Cummies well enough to have my actual point, which is:
How do you think the gender experience of being in someone else's body works in TLT? If you stuck most (cis?) dudes in a (cis?) woman's body, they'd potentially experience quite a lot of dysphoria straight off the bat, and I can confirm that the reverse is true* Does Pal just manage to internalise the idea that he's in someone else's body? Does he just have so much self-control that he can ignore the dysphoria? Is Cam trans and in possession of a body that Pal doesn't mind so much? Is Pal trans and used to it? Is Palamedes a trans woman in denial and deliberately not thinking too hard about the fact that being in Cam's body feels right?
Pyrrha does seem to experience some dysphoria over having facial hair, to the point of asking Palamedes to do necromantic electrolysis on her face. She seems fairly comfortable having no shirt on in G1d's body and calling herself "daddy" though, so I think even pre-lyctorhood she had some Gender (TM) going on.
Please help me rotate the gender in this series in my mind!
*Source: I'm trans and I remember how noticeably better I felt the instant I had surgery, for instance. Our boy Pal is gonna notice those tits and the lack of a dick.
I'm always, always thinking about the *gestures vaguely* genderfuck experiences of body swapping. Anyway, this ended up a super rambly mess of headcanons… sorry.
My headcanon on Gender and the Houses, at large, is that everyone at large is pretty “whatever” about it, and it’s nbd how people choose to present or identify—so maybe not as many people experience some amount of gender dysphoria as they would in a society that’s more rigidly gender, but it’s still a thing. Enter: flesh necromancy! I’m especially fond of this hc by @thewinterstale on how the necromantic miracle that got Cyrus and Valancy noticed by John and invited to Canaan House, early post-resurrection, was that Cyrus perfected gender-affirming flesh necromancy (and that’s why they are SO proud of their beautifully crafted bodies). This is unrelated to Pal, but I just like the idea that gender-affirming necromancy is a thing that happens in the Houses—except probably the Ninth because they don’t have any homegrown flesh necromancers and no access to the rest of the system, but I believe they still do stuff like in House-top surgery and bone straps on.
Re: bodyswapping, I think that in a situation like Palamedes and Camilla (ending up in someone else's body) most people would experience some amount of body dysmorphia before even taking Gender Feels into account. Humans are used to spending their whole life in a body that feels and moves and reacts in a certain way—when that changes abruptly, it’s going to feel a bit odd to very distressing, depending on the person and how sharp the difference is. I think there IS going to be a certain level of WTF?? if you’re suddenly in a body that doesn’t match your self-image, regardless of whether that self-image extends to gender dysphoria or whether you're even particularly attached to your concept of gender identity. But if you ARE and if the new body doesn't match what you need, then I think a different gender presentation and/or a different set of genitalia or other secondary sex characteristics is going to make that worse.
On Palamedes specifically, I do headcanon him as a cis guy in a cis female body, but I also think he wouldn't feel any specific way about it. This is less to do with gender and a lot more to do with the fact that I don't see Palamedes as someone who is especially in tune with his physical body to the point that he’d experience dysphoria or body dysmorphia. He gives me the same vibes as Harrow, who sort of treats her body like a meat vehicle that gets her where she needs to go, but doesn’t feel any specific way about the shape it takes and routinely forgets she even has one.
OTOH, I feel like Camilla would have a much stronger reaction to being shoved inside someone else’s body, regardless of whether it matches her gender identity—I actually think she'd be more distressed if she ended up in a body that was noticeably weaker or built very different than her own vs. if she ended up in a body that didn’t match her gender identity. While someone like Corona, who IMO puts a lot more stock into her gender presentation, wouldn’t deal that well if she switched bodies with, idk, Babs (very much A Guy regardless of whether he’s trans or cis) or even Gideon (cis butch woman) who might also have tits but presents in a very different way.
/SORRY THIS IS SO RAMBLY I keep thinking about this stuff. Also I feel like the lyctors have fucked with gender presentation and flesh magic so much over the millennia that they have all reshaped their bodies fifty different times and at any point it's always a surprise what they look like naked.
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