#I definitely read tlh once when it first came out
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ampresandian · 11 months ago
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I haven't read HoO so idk I could be wrong/maybe they talk about it in the series but let me just lay out for you what I know: 1) there's a Roman demigod camp called Camp Jupiter 2) It's run like the Roman military 3) there's also a city/complex for adults/families within/attached to it(?)
Anyway the point is that I think it's super interesting that the Roman counterpart to Camp Half Blood (named after the kids it supports/shelters/teaches) is named Camp Jupiter? Like first of all I feel like "camp" in a military setting makes me feel like it's transitory but they've clearly made something pretty permanent so why go with "camp" instead of say "fort" or "base"? And the fact that it's named after the King of the Gods sounds to me like it's indicative of their values; where the Greek camp (lol) values the heroes they're training, the Roman camp appears (again, without reading) to value the gods over the participants of their programming/organization?
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eliza1911o1 · 3 years ago
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Rant about Heroes of Olympus because as a sequel series to Percy Jackson it pains me pt. 1
So I just reread the PJO (one of my all time favorite series) and HoO series and I’m just struck by how unfulfilled I feel after finally finishing BoO for the first time…
I didn’t read it when I was younger because it came out just as I got really busy in school and was growing out of my “reading phase” and before I knew I had ADHD/attention struggles
I know I’m older and they’re aimed at young audiences and a bit outdated in general now but the original Percy Jackson and the Olympians series is still amazing. No contest. It may have plot holes, it may be lacking in some areas like representation, but everything has flaws and all of those are just so easy to get over with such heartwarming characters and carefully crafted quests. Not to mention the high stakes and actually pretty realistic struggles??? I’m probably biased, but I just really love them and am not above fighting others if they put it down
But even after realizing both series are kids books, the plot valleys (not just pothole level inconsistencies), OOC moments, anticlimactic ending, general lack of dynamic characters and lasting themes, and lacking world building all prove HoO to be underwhelming compared to PJO. Like it’s not bad, but it’s not close to perfect either. It’s even hard to argue how most of the events and characters in HoO add and further the stories of PJO, let alone why to consider all of it as sacred canon. Especially by the end of BoO, the lackluster vibe overall was really disheartening
They aren’t bad books. I just don’t think they lived up to the heart of PJO. I didn’t feel like I was reading more about characters I love or learning about great new characters and settings or invested in why this battle against Gaia will be the greatest of all time. Instead, I my brain was caught trying to convince myself why all of that was true and I was blatantly put off by some of the story directions, which made me feel incredibly sad
Again, it’s a fun read. Not considering any sort of literary analysis or strong personal opinion and taking into account the intended audience, it meets expectations. I just feel like the original series did so much more than be average and I’m just grasping at straws here because HoO had potential to do the same
Anyway, here are some of my strongest complaints with brief explanation and in no particular order:
- where were the old characters??? Grover?? WHERE WAS GROVER??????
- Percy was very underplayed in BoO for no reason; even if you consider his time in Tartarus, he was very weak compared to SoN and it wasn’t really explained, which felt lazy. They should’ve let him rest if he wasn’t up to fighting
- mental health issues were brought up but skirted by (Nico’s coming out was awful, Percy’s suicidal thoughts weren’t really addressed seriously (that’s a whole nother post), Hazel’s literally having died once)
- Too. Much. Romance. Why did everyone need to be a couple?????
- same structure as PJO, but without any reinvention (TLT and TLH had almost the same beginning)
- povs past SoN had weird distribution; I don’t think it made sense HoH had all seven povs but the final book, BoO, didn’t
- what made Jason, Piper, and Leo more special than any of the other seven? The explanation that they began everything felt lazy and discredited Frank and Hazel….
- Reyna and Nico and even Coach Hedge held a lot of importance in the plot and it felt weird since they weren’t even part of the seven. Distribution of responsibility and the idea of seven great heroes saving stuff (even if it was ironic) was downplayed
- the seven never really felt like a team or had a moment where it seemed like all of them were vital to make things work. The splitting up into smaller groups all the time definitely worsened this
- why was New Rome a whole mini country when CHB is a literal camp… the world building was quite slapdash and felt unreastic
- no developed Roman side characters really; wish Dakota, Lou Ellen, and others had more importance and interest
- Percy came back to NYC (to CHB) and no one said anything? No Sally-Percy reunion? No Grover-Percy reunion? No campers cheering for Percy to be back?
- last minute Solangelo; they should’ve had some sort of interest to sudden love/slow burn/opposites attract relationship with proper time to develop
- issue of Greeks vs. Roman felt sort of weak and their sudden cohesion at the end felt too forced (how is one statue gonna fix eeeeeeverything)
- final battle was awful. No words. Giants easily killed, Greeks and Romans united in a minute, Gaia contained in a little storm immediately after waking and killed like no biggie
- minimal lasting damage or deaths (Leo’s death…. Don’t even get me started)
- BoO and later books ruined Leo’s character and made him seem selfish, unaware, and rude
- Annabeth and Percy being captured immediately by the giant princess in BoO; you think they escaped Tartarus for the ending to be THAT
- Frank’s whole situation; firewood and the whole idea of life being fragile felt pretty useless by the end when nothing could touch him
- weak usage of prophecy — I feel like the oracle being dead at the end was a sign for everyone to live without forced guidance, which was a big deal in PJO, but the point wasn’t really made and it felt like he just didn’t want to come up with more. Also, it felt like lines were added randomly to the prophecy of seven but we never hear everything together??? The prophecy felt cheap and forced with how everything played out
- no issues with Percy and Annabeth going to New Rome for college, but they’d be that quick to abandon their home in NYC? I get the trauma associated with it, but there was nothing that made it seem right for them to think the trauma was enough to leave everything… lowkey wanted Annabeth to go to Columbia or Barnard or NYU and be fixing up CHB to house adults or have a veteran demigod network
- cutting off character development and interactions. A lot of the characters were used to further others (Jason furthering Nico’s in BoO) or never even talked to each other (Percy and Piper). There wasn’t much growth in the last couple books even though it was very clear in the beginning ones (Frank is an obvious example) and more importantly, there was a supreme lack of resolution in their stories. Especially Percy and Annabeth, who went to hell and back, we never feel like they suffered for a reason or needed to be the ones to suffer or the suffering changed them for better or worse or any other real indication I should accept the ending
- no backlash on the gods. At all. Percy, like many others throughout PJO and HoO, is struggling to respect the gods, let alone continue being used by them. And in HoO, the gods are USELESS. They do literally n.o.t.h.i.n.g. They have one fight scene and when we have Jason’s equivalent to the asking for childcare scene of TLO, Zeus responds and his backbone breaks. The only consequence was Apollo being demoted but that honestly felt like a marketing scheme knowing ToA
- lots more but I’ll stop myself here
(Btw I did not read it because of the show lol though I am glad I did so I’m ready for it)
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anarmorofwords · 4 years ago
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Okay since I’m emotional about baby Matthew interacting with his parents, Charlotte having to leave Matthew for the first time since she’s had him (Henry is there so he’s not alone but you know what I mean) and she sneaks into his nursery and lets rubs her finger on his little chubby baguette arm and tells him to be good for papa and Charles and she loves him before she goes to Charles room and kisses him goodbye too. She did this for a long time, every-time she left until her babies weren’t quite babies anymore.
Henry positioning little Matthew on his lap so he can hold his fingers and just bounce before he can walk. Tbh? I think Henry was the one who really liked seeing his kids firsts, like he’s the one who wanted to see them walk and tried to contrive ways for them to have the chance too.
Matthew gave Charlotte a heart attack once because she tried to cut his nails as a baby and everytime she get close he scream and she jump away but then he laugh, he thought they were playing, he is the reason for her first grey hairs, she swears.
Charles and Matthew where the “he’s touching me” / “I’m not touching you” type of siblings. Matthew has pushed Charles into a fountain and Charles has cut Matthew’s doll’s hair off. But Charles would also kill spiders in Matthew’s room if he asked and held his hand to cross the street as a kid unprompted.
Henry did perfect his mobile rocking crib from clockwork princess by the time Matthew was born
Charles once took Matthew out of his crib as he was crying and walked into a room of small party his mom and dad were hosting at 7 and matter of factually told them “make him stop crying, please” and since he’s 7 and has no idea to hold a child the parents in the room all to rush to get the kid out of his arms.
Matthew actually was the tantrum Haver of the two Fairchild children and like he says, if he was going get angry he was gonna make it in eventful, baby fists flying (Charlotte and Henry grabbing his hands and telling him “no, no hitting, violence is not the answer” but he craves violence) screaming like a victim of a slasher film but after he did it a lot of times he Peter out and feel bad about it, after everything is said and done he usually said sorry. But he also tire himself out. Similarly? If Matthew was a screamer, Charles bit people. Horribly teething phase. No one will ever let him live down when he was five and he bit Gideon. All I’m saying is that Charlotte gave birth to hellions while Will have births to angels was the common joke back in the day
Matthew can do pretty good impressions of his parents that actually make Charles laugh, but he denies it. Matthew can do a good Charles too, but Charles finds it less funny.
Charlotte introduced Matthew to Oscar Wild, when she bought home a copy of Dorian Grey, Will insisted she read but “when do I have to read?” But she ended up reading it to Matthew as a bed time story not recognizing it may be a little scary for him but LUCKLY he just ended up stanning him.
Matthew had a little bit of Anna from the first half Frozen energy when it came to the Fairchild Manor. Change my mind.
Charlotte has a pictures of both Charles and Matthew as babies in a locket she keeps in her pocket. Henry has a family portrait as soon as photography was available.
In a similar way, in some ways to his son’s fears, Henry fears Matthew thinks he’s boring and prefers Will who more fun (Oh the irony right?)
Matthew and Charles have only met the Branwell side of the family a number that can be counted on one hand but even that is too many for them.
The academy explosion was the one time Charlotte truly blew up at Matthew over.
Both Charles and Matthew had quite a bit of freedom as young teens that maybe they shouldn’t have had.
hi anon!!!
so sorry for taking so long!
hey I'm emotional now too, was that your plan? :')
*le cry*
Charlotte kissing them goodbye is currently almost making me cry when I'm wearing a mascara, bad idea
yes?!! i totally see him being obsessed with their milestones and firsts (again, his kids are what he's most proud of, and I'll die on that hill)
lil Matthew being a lil shit like that has my heart breaking, thanks
they were. though, aren't most siblings like that??? it's really breaking my heart, because I assume this was very much their dynamic at first, the typical "wanna push you into a hole but I'll hold you while you're afraid of the dark" thing.
mobile rocking crib yes please!!!
the mental image of the entire TID gang scrambling to their feet to take Matthew from Charles' arms is currently killing me, thanks
he was and he would apologize after tiring himself out, yes. i kinda wanna imagine that if it happened during dinners/parties Will was at, he would try to take care of him by redirecting his attention, kinda like Jace urging the baby to fight demins
plz imagine Charles trying to boss Gideon around in TLH (in a political setting) and Gideon just looking at him unimpressed, like, "kid, you bit me when you were 5, shut the fuck up"
Omg yes?!?! acting skills, baby!! (Charles is pissed when he's doing the impression of him, but he's also equal parts impressed and unsettled by the accuracy)
I wouldn't say "luckily" about a 12-13 year olds stanning Oscar Wilde lol (especially that I remember my own existential crisis phase when I was that age and read it), but I like that scenario!
yup!
she absolutely has. also does she have like am office or something? because she so would have them there as well
Matthew being insecure about Kit and Henry being insecure about Will,,,,woah, pain. Though I'd say Henry only started thinking so when Matthew became a teen and started to be more distanced (aka mentally ill lol) and all that. Earlier, I think he was very vocal about his adoration for Henry, if NBS is anything to go by.
I imagine she was really really mad and definitely lost it
i think so too! perhaps it wasn't a bad idea in itself, but so it happened that it ended the way it did...
thanks for sending this dear! have a nice day/evening/night!
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Jason He's made out to be the new, better Percy . He is also a massive Gary Stu in my opinion. Leo He's really rude to Frank. I know they got over it but still also he acted like it was all Percy's fault Calypso was on the island even though Percy tried to help. Piper She had so much potential but whenever anyone talks about her being Aphrodite's best daughter or whatever I'm like 'Do you remember SELINA??!!) also she has a huge I'm not like other Girls complex and is kinda obsessed with Jason.
We have REALLY different views on them so I’m gonna see how well I can articulate My Analysis Of My Children okay let’s go:
Jason…I think the point was that he’s perceived as a ‘Gary Stu’, ‘better Percy’ type guy when that’s actually not the reality of who he is? Like, his whole life everyone’s always been “Your father is the king of the gods! You should lead us!” and so he’s had to get used to this role, he’s had to create this character to make people feel like they’re in good hands…but he hates it. He hates being the leader and being in power, but up until the 7 meet up that’s the only thing he really knows. He never really had a chance to discover himself outside of this role shoved onto him. At first, he doesn’t really know who he is other than ‘Jupiter’s Son’.
He can’t help that everyone has high expectations for him, and he’s a people pleaser so he’s going to do his damndest to meet those expectations, but like? We saw how stressed out he was leading the quest in HoH. He was barely sleeping and practically pulling his hair out, pushing himself to fix everything and make sure everyone was okay while ignoring his own problems. That’s what Jason must’ve been like when he was leading the legion- everyone remembers him as a strong and regal leader, because that’s the expectation, that’s what they want him to be, and he came damn well put on a good performance when he needs to, but 24/7 while he’s living in closed quarters with people? Yeah, no. He wanted Percy and Annabeth back so he could stop having pretending he knew what he was doing (and because he was worried about them obviously). 
The thing is, once you strip away “Son of Jupiter”…Jason doesn’t really meet any of the expectations placed on him. Over the course of the series he starts worrying about that less and less, he loosens up and actually starts to find out who he is other than what people want…He doesn’t match up to the image:
He’s not actually the strongest demigod out there- he’s a very well trained fighter, sure, but like…We’ve seen Thalia shoot out massive amounts of lightning like it’s no one’s business without breaking a sweat. Jason has to actually ask for a helpful bolt and the effort almost knocks him out. His talents lie with the winds, which…I don’t think ‘wind’ comes to anyone’s minds immediately when talking about Jupiter. And it’s also not a power that, at face value, seems super helpful. But Jason manages to cultivate it and makes it powerful enough to stall Gaea. 
He’s not strong and regal, he’s excitable and dorky. He gets so sucked in to reading some book he found interesting that he walks into a tree. He bounces and hugs people when he gets happy. He can’t keep his glasses on straight and looses them on top of his head. He loves talking about history. He got so distracted by how pretty his girlfriend is that he forgot what he was talking about. He got shish kabob-ed and his immediate reaction was “I finally managed to stay conscious for an entire fight”. He was trying to talk a goddess out of killing his friend and the first thing to come to mind is “I’ll get Olympus to make an action figure of you!”. This kid is a LOSER.
He’s not a stoic ruler, he worries about every single person under his command. Individually. He doesn’t lead troops like, well, troops- he leads them like teammates. He’s greatly affected when the people working with him are upset, and he’s very perceptive about their feelings. His constantly checking in on Nico after the Cupid scene, his understanding of Piper’s issues in TLH, his belief in Frank, his worrying about Percy and Annabeth…this boy knew Leo was upset simply by looking at his DRINK ORDER, and then even though Leo offered up no real information, it took him like under five minutes of just observing him to know Leo was heartbroken. 
There’s so many other points but like…Jason’s story was about a boy born with crazy expectations shedding those and growing into his own person while still maintaining the sense of duty he had to the people he cared about. He had an entire identity crisis for this very reason. Camp Jupiter was his home, but Camp Half Blood is where he found himself. He loved both places and by the end of the story he came out with a strong and comfortable sense of self. He came out of it with a new path and set of expectations that he decided for himself. He went through trials and dealt with his emotions and found peace with himself and his role in the world. I think it was a very compelling plotline and not ‘gary stu’ like at all. 
Leo…We really have to take into account that Leo’s always assumed the role of ‘the jokester’. Despite the fact he’s a genius, Leo doesn’t actually see himself as talented and the environment he grew up in absolutely shapes that. He said himself in TLH- being the funny guy kept him safe most of the time. He didn’t feel he had much else to offer, and no one around him believed he did either, people only kept him around for jokes. I think what happened with Frank was like…his default setting. That sounds bad (and it is) but it really does need to be taken into consideration- we know Leo’s only been in, like, exclusively bad environments before the events of the series. Anyone who just kept him around for a laugh probably didn’t wanna hear knock knock jokes about engineers. His best bet for not getting in trouble or abandoned would be to rag on someone who was an easier target than him. Leo knows he can trust Jason and Piper, and he’s scared of Annabeth but is mostly sure she won’t kill him…but then he gets possessed and blows up half of New Rome. Everyone’s mad at him. Including the three new people he knows absolutely nothing about but all look like they could eat his tiny scrawny ass for a snack. I feel like it’s not a stretch to say he felt an old urge to protect himself kick in, to make sure he fits into this group because what the hell is he gonna do if he doesn’t? The fact that Frank was already annoyed with him for looking like Sammy didn’t exactly help their dynamic…Like, I’m just saying, I think he really stepped it up on the Frank jokes because of his ‘seventh wheel’ complex. He’s used to using comedy to make himself valuable to people. He knows he has to be on this quest no matter what, but that doesn’t mean people have to want him there, you know? He wants to be wanted. That’s Leo’s whole thing? He already built the entire boat but they’re mad at him for things out of his control. He feels like he’s gotta do something else to be relevant to the group so he just…slides into his old defense mechanism and as he’d be used to, it’s easiest to go for the easiest target. Who is Frank. And the whole weird Sammy and Hazel situation definitely exacerbated the whole thing. And it wasn’t fair to Frank, absolutely, which Leo himself eventually realizes and knocks it off. But I just think it’s not fair to say “Leo’s doing this because he’s a dick”. Like, people are often more complicated than that. 
As for the Calypso situation…Listen, I think Percy feeling guilt for Calypso still being on her island made no sense and someone needs to assure him that that’s not his fault. However, Calypso didn’t know that. Calypso didn’t have all the facts. She had every right to be upset with Percy. It was going to be awkward with Leo and Percy anyway, because like, oh hey dude while you were in hell I made out with your ex and she loves me now. But like…I don’t think it was wrong for Leo to be upset on Calypso’s behalf? The girl he’s crazy about is trapped on an island because Jackson couldn’t be bothered to check on her! (Which is of course NOT THE CASE but that’s Calypso’s view on the matter, that’s what she told Leo). I’m just saying like, he’s relatively new to relationships and he heard a biased explanation of the situation…It makes sense that he’d side with her? 
The thing we need to remember is…Leo and Calypso both have abandonment issues. And from Leo’s understanding, he’s sharing a boat with the guy that had Severely Hurt the girl he now loves. (And if she HADN’T been so hurt when they met, they might’ve had more time as a couple before he had to plunge back into the unknown) Looking at his actions and thoughts from an outside, biased viewpoint might make him look awful and crazy but…From his specific point of view, it makes sense. And Percy was able to see that, which is why they were able to talk it all out. I just think it’s a real shame that Leo Valdez is this complex, compelling character, but people only remember him for fighting with Frank and being crazy about Calypso. It’s reducing him. He had a lot more going on and was a very believable character with easily explainable traits and actions. 
Piper…Was one of Aphrodite’s best children, though? She had the most powerful charmspeak in generations. Like, that’s canon. Silena was a great character and a great cabin head, but she had no powers and was a relatively weak fighter. I love her as much as the next, but that’s just canonical fact. Her strongest asset was her heart and loyalty, which were used against her, and she died trying to make things right. She wouldn’t have made it on the Prophecy of the Seven quest. She wouldn’t. But Piper was a powerful charmspeak, was immensely brave, and constantly worked at being a better fighter (which, again, in canon, the Aphrodite kids are not the best fighters). By the time the series ends she’s a wickedly skilled swordsmen, is the only one who can work the cornucopia because of her inner strength and giving nature, has a dagger that can see the future, always knows how people around her are feeling, completely dominated a literal temple of fear and terror, and was powerful enough to order the literal planet earth to sleep. Piper is strong and brave and she’s constantly working on bettering herself. She was able to not only see the other side of Aphrodite, but to fight for it to be what everyone sees. She changes people’s perception of the cabin and the goddess herself. She did have a ‘not-like-other-girls’ complex when we first met her, but she was a bullied kid who grew up around rich white teens in Hollywood. But it’s a complex she catches in herself and grows out of- she stops trying to be #edgy and lets herself be comfortable in her skin, grows her hair out and wears a little makeup and puts thought into her outfits- but she also stops judging other people. She learns to see the beauty in everyone she meets. She redefines her outlook. That’s admirable, in my opinion. 
As for ‘obsessed with Jason’, I mean…it really just kinda reads, personally anyway, as “I’m A Teenage Girl And I Think My Significant Other Is Just The Coolest Thing Since Sliced Bread”…? Like? He’s her boyfriend, she’s fifteen. He’s cute and cool and a dork all at the same time. She goes from ‘mega crush heart eyes’ mode to actually falling in love with him, that’s not an obsession, that’s like…a natural progression of feelings. She’s always had her own storylines and she’s fully able to focus on things that aren’t Jason. But of course she thinks about him, he’s important to her? They’re a good match, they’re usually on similar wavelengths, and they work well together. She doesn’t think about him more than Annabeth and Percy think about each other. Piper shouldn’t be reduced to a fangirl just because she occasionally thinks to herself “Damn my boyfriend is hot”. She’s a very relatable and impressive character that deserves more than that. 
I really hope this doesn’t end up being like, a ramble, and that I actually properly articulated how I see the characters, but like…yeah. I do love this trio. 
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