#I am Virgil and you're all Dantes

[bonebabbles]

CACKLES IN GLEE AT BONE OPENING THE ASKBOX

you don't have to post this I just wanna say like I love your live readings of books, it's like bread and butter at an outback steakhouse. It's going outside, cracking open a soda and watching your neighbor try to cultivate a garden out of what has been left (which is invasive wisteria and probably kudzu) and watch them shake a rake at the sky and curse the old owners of the elaborate and dilapidated mansion of what they have left you to deal with. It's probably a haunted house, too.

I Suffer for my silly cat fanfictions and no one can tell me I don't

[greentrickster]

Been poking around the Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel fandoms a bit, and frankly I have some questions.

What happens to a sinner's soul when it double-dies via annual purge?

What happens to imp and other hellborn souls when they die?

Are dead sinners where we get the hellborn souls like imps, succubi, hellhounds, etc. from?

Does Heaven have an overpopulation problem?

Is reincarnation a thing in this universe?

If reincarnation is a thing, is that the secret of the system of how this whole afterlife thing works? Like, human -> sinner -> hellborn -> human again? Until you eventually get it right and get into Heaven or something?

Can question six be right? That would be interesting!

Where's Eve in all this?

Are we gonna be Eve-blaming in this whole situation and can we not? Poor woman gets enough of that in this world.

Where's God in all this? I know the bible at least exists, I've heard characters say 'God' and 'Christ' when they're swearing, the concepts are there, I demand satisfaction.

For that matter, where's Godot? Seriously, I've been waiting for him for six hours, I'm beginning to think he ghosted me.

Why does Alastor have the scariest 'full power' design? Because this is a thing I have Noticed and I am Concerned.

How long can Charlie's hair actually get?

Who allowed there to be this many bops in one franchise, and why are none of the Helluva Boss ones on iTunes so I can buy them?

Has anyone seen Dante, Virgil-sempai's looking for him, something about a message from his girlfriend or whatever.

Can the hellborn get into Heaven when they die?

What constitutes as getting-into-Heaven behaviour if you're literally born in Hell?

Does the series itself actually agree with Charlie's thesis of everyone deserving a second chance?

Okay, that's it, those are my questions, I feel better now.

[crumblinggothicarchitecture]

“unless there is some nuance of the music industry I am unaware of- why can't they just not take the credits especially if there was no actual court case”

There must be a way to not accept because I remember amidst the whole credits drama some people tried to add Elvis Costello to it and he refused and said something along the lines of: everyone is inspired by those who came before. So yeah maybe there is a way

I'm literally so convinced that there is a way to just say "No Thanks"

I know a bit about copyright and giving credit to other writers due to my own work experience.

Frankly, if I don't want to be credited on a project all I have to say is "No, thanks, keep my name off of it" and they have to respect my request by law.

Also, you're right. Everyone who has ever written anything is inspired by those who come before.

Shakespeare himself was inspired by Sophocles and Euripides.

Dante wrote because reading Virgil inspired him so much.

However, the dance between copying and drawing inspiration from something has been contested much for all of history. People will continue to argue over it- I am sure.

[reservoirreputation]

The Inferno, Canto I: Reactions and Notes

I've had a copy of the book for years, and after being reminded of it by my friend, Lansiosa, I've decided to pick it up and seriously try to read it. Yes of my own free will. No it's not for a school project. Yes I'm thus far having a good time.

I'm 2 Cantos in, and Lanny has suggested I make tumblr posts about it, since I made *many* meta and reaction posts about Supernatural, and talking about The Inferno is reminding me of that mindset, and how, ultimately, it allowed me to further enjoy one of my favorite shows, and it's allowing me to more thoroughly enjoy this book that I've started and stopped a few times now.

I can scrounge up my thoughts about Canto I, as typed out on Discord, but more in-depth analysis comes for Canto II.

The Discord Notes:

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:36 PM

Started The Inferno, and Dante is really like 'HELP THERE’S PANTHERS PLEASE HELP- Virgil? I'M YOUR BIGGEST FAN'

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:36 PM

You're actually reading it???

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:37 PM

Starting yes, but I'm also sleepy

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:37 PM

Out of curiousity

Does this edition have commentary or is it only the text, nothing else?

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:38 PM

Also, did the guy have a near death experience and this is why he's being guided through hell? That he lost his way/fucked around and found out?

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:39 PM

Second option

lansiosa

Out of curiousity Does this edition have commentary or is it only the text, nothing else?

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:39 PM

stuff like this [author's note, there was a picture of my copy here XD]

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:39 PM

So he is now being guided tbrough the three Underworld realms to… Redeem himself, I wanna say

Poor Reputation

stuff like this

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:40 PM

God, that's depressing

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:40 PM

And a general overview/biography/context of the time

lansiosa

God, that's depressing

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:40 PM

How is it depressing?

Poor Reputation

And a general overview/biography/context of the time

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:41 PM

That is better, though, that's some interesting infos you could use

Poor Reputation

How is it depressing?

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:41 PM

I am thinking about the notes in my own copies lol

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:41 PM

Oh XD

Poor Reputation

stuff like this

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:44 PM

'Aenas' and 'Troy', clearly assuming everyone knows who Aenas is and what Troy lol

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:47 PM

OK finished first Canto, now time to relax

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:48 PM

Hope you enjoyed it XD But also, yes GO RELAX

lansiosa

I am thinking about the notes in my own copies lol

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:48 PM

This is just commentary for the first verse lol

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:50 PM

Now knowing more about the speech patterns of Italian, this poem feels like a very literal translation, if that makes sense.

Poor Reputation

stuff like this

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:50 PM

I might compare and contrast here, if you want

[2:50 PM]

Just as an experiment

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:51 PM

Like instead of saying it directly like an English speaker, they were scared of getting yelled at for meddling with the core work, so it ends up being explained in a very Fancy way XD

[2:52 PM]

But it does make it all feel more poetic

Poor Reputation

Like instead of saying it directly like an English speaker, they were scared of getting yelled at for meddling with the core work, so it ends up being explained in a very Fancy way XD

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:52 PM

Fair, though, I think they are trying to keep up the poetic pattern of the original

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:52 PM

And fits Dante's super dramatic personality

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:52 PM

Wait until he starts fainting every other canto ahahh

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:53 PM

Get this man a fainting couch

[2:53 PM]

Although, you know what? Realistic reaction to hell.

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:54 PM

RIGHT???

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:55 PM

Man can't be out here describing damnation while being chill about it.

[2:55 PM]

That would be cutting his message off at the knees.

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:55 PM

Exactly, yes

[2:56 PM]

And I mean, he described pretty harrowing things, all in all I think it's already pretty impressive he managed to get through the journey at all

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:57 PM

Oh, the panther that blocks his way initially, she sounds like she's supposed to be representing a specific person

[2:57 PM]

Especially when Virgil reads her for filth

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 2:57 PM

So, the three animals do each represent something, if you give me a moment I'll be able to tell you

[2:58 PM]

How are they called in your translation, specifically?

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 2:58 PM

Panther, lion and wolf

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 3:02 PM

So, first and foremost, it is generally accepted that the mountain Dante is about to climb after he managed to get out of the dark forest (which, representation of spiritual wandering/sin) is the mountain of Purgatory, so these three beasts are in fact blocking his way to salvation

They are interpreted as each representing a sin. Specifically, the panther is lust, the lion is pride, the wolf greed

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 3:02 PM

OK so not shading any real person (yet)?

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 3:03 PM

Not yet, apparently

[3:03 PM]

I'll see if there is something about Virgil's rant about the panther specifically

lansiosa

So, first and foremost, it is generally accepted that the mountain Dante is about to climb after he managed to get out of the dark forest (which, representation of spiritual wandering/sin) is the mountain of Purgatory, so these three beasts are in fact blocking his way to salvation They are interpreted as each representing a sin. Specifically, the panther is lust, the lion is pride, the wolf greed

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 3:04 PM

Looking back on it, that's quite clear in the text, and I may be getting ahead of myself.

It can't be disgraced popes all of the time.

lansiosa

I'll see if there is something about Virgil's rant about the panther specifically

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 3:05 PM

Nope, apparently he is in fact lamenting about the sin of lust specifically

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 3:05 PM

Like why the hell would Dante shade these IRL people and then hold back on the animal metaphor XD

Poor Reputation

Looking back on it, that's quite clear in the text, and I may be getting ahead of myself. It can't be disgraced popes all of the time.

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 3:05 PM

I have to say though, you are in the right mindset to think "everything means anything" XD

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 3:06 PM

Discord is being a bit funny

[3:06 PM]

A sign for me to wind down/get ready to nap perhaps

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 3:07 PM

Possibly? How long have you been up?

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 3:07 PM

2:30 this morning

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 3:07 PM

…. What time is it now??

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 3:08 PM

And that was a short fitful nap, I'd really gotten up at 7 pm yesterday

[3:08 PM]

So it's been almost 20 hours

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 3:08 PM

………

Pal, go to sleep

[3:09 PM]

NOW

Poor Reputation — 09/20/2024 3:09 PM

So I guess the hour and a half nap wasn't all shit XD

[3:09 PM]

OK bye!!!

lansiosa — 09/20/2024 3:19 PM

Also, if you ever feel curious about details in the Inferno which your edition doesn't mention, I might just bring my own copy home and answer to questions

END

Thank you to Lansiosa for patiently guiding me through this classic ♥

Link to the next post:

https://www.tumblr.com/reservoirreputation/763501724309831680/the-inferno-canto-ii-reactions-and-notes?source=share

[deerydear]

Preaching to the fucking choir, but maybe that's really what I came here, to do... in the first place.

DANTE AND VIRGIL UP ON THE HILL, CHECKIN' OUT ALL THE SINNERS!

I really love religious artwork. I think se7en is a really funny movie. My friend Alex brought it up, to me... I remember.... I was making some kind of joke about the homunculus named Greed from fullmetal alchemist, and then she was like, "and then greed from se7en crawls in and joins them" and I WAS LIKE "MORE GREEDS?!?!?!?!!?!?! MORE SINS?!?!?!?!?!?! YES!" Yeah, I was joking about some kind of orgy between incarnations-of-Greed.

I knew this other internet-person who would punctuate their sayings like this, like, "Can't change the way I am! Sexy, naughty, bitchy me!"

Honestly, sometimes I get embarrassed when I say that to myself. CUZ IT'S SUCH A GIRLY SONG!

I don't mean to bring up gender, but from my perspective, it has nothing to do with what gender that someone actually... is, but rather what kind of behaviour they will put up with, from others. That's what I revile, and I have used 'girly' as a shorthand for it... but maybe that's not such a good thing. but it's because these kinds of people, the ones who are women... they care so much about cultivating this image of themselves as 'a real woman', so it's like playing off that.... but at the same time that's just buying into their delusion.

Then I have this problem with like, some of the feminist ideas that get spread around on tumblr.... like, they'll criticize this, but then they'll lean back on this idea of womanhood that's based on being 'less violent' than men, or 'less perverted', less..... strong, less awesome. I mean by the metric of what I think is awesome. Being raunchy and cool and loud and taking up space, and they're like... "we don't do that! We're such good little angels that sit in our places, and it's all men's fault that they get all the attention!" Like, they'll whine about someone else giving them flak because "they're women taking up space", but you have to show them that you're not afraid of getting flak, or pushback. It's a show of dominance. We are apes. Get comfortable. "That sounds like a personal problem. It's not because you're a woman, you just need to develop some core strength. YOU'RE NOT DOOMED TO THIS FATE THAT YOU'VE WRITTEN FOR YOURSELF, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE A WOMAN! STOP SAYING THAT, BOTH TO YOURSELF AND TO OTHERS! IT IS CRUEL! YOU ARE THE MISOGYNIST IN YOUR OWN HEAD!* IT IS YOUR PERCERPTION! NO ONE ELSE CAN EVER HURT YOU AS MUCH AS YOU CAN HURT YOURSELF! THEY CAN ONLY HURT YOU IF YOU ALLOWED THEM TO, SO DON'T! JUST KEEP ON KEEPIN ON! Maybe that's a jinx..... maybe I got jinxed. Uh oh.

I hate how social-justice shit pretends like there's a problem that you need to solve. There is no problem. I mean, as far as issues like this go.... which are all perception, and self-talk. Maybe those anti-sjws were a little bit right. I think it's better to stay in the center, but I'm a libra, so that's my gig. "Shifting center" Oh yeah, just like the entirety of human history. In ancient greece, it used to be common for men to take up male lovers, and a wife. Then, in some places it became criminal, and now society's different again. It's really all in your head. If you act natural about something, other people will notice your comfortability with it, and they may become more comfortable. I know this, because it's part of fucking life. If you were to act scared and shaky, that can make some other people feel scared and uncertain, too. It's all about presenting your best face to the world. It's psychology. It's what makes a good sales(wo)man!

I mean that people have learned to use this natural skill to deepen their cashflow... It's part of being human, but it's not intrinsically tied to money...... I don't think...... I say that because I get a little buckwild if I feel like someone's telling me what to do.

*Misogynist in their own head. You know what's funny... is the level of almost-self awareness that some feminists have shown about this. There was a brief meme on tumblr about having "a man inside your head watching a woman perform", as in, being your own patriarchal spectator....... like yeah that's exactly what's going on

Even if you point the problem out, that doesn't mean it will fix itself. You have to actually continue to change. Just like I do tarot readings for myself, and just because I look at the cards and say, "oh yeah, this is the problem, and here's the solution", I have to implement the solution, myself... or step back and allow it to implement itself. In some situations, no amount of 'sitting around and talking about the problem' will ever do anything, if it's something that you need to do. Sometimes that's just an excuse not to do anything. Like you're trying to crowdsource your own bravery.... the thing which comes from INSIDE OF YOU! THERE ARE THINGS YOU ARE BORN WITH, WHICH YOU ONLY GET FROM YOU!

It's part of maturing. I also feel like I just have this angry dickheaded side where I hate seeing people talk themselves down into the dirt, and then they say it's because they're women... rather than because they're people who were abused. Not all women go through that. You can say it all you want, but it doesn't make it true. Excuses will always be there for you, but opportunity won't! Excuses are like an ugly wife, lol, and I'm not a lesbian! Maybe it's nice and warm when you're scared and lonely, but everyone's gonna laugh at you if you parade that shit around. and you will get fucking tired of looking at it, too.

Seriosuly, do you think all these brave, strong women whom you hold up as examples of 'female excellence'* were talking down to themselves the way you fucking do? Do you think they ever cared if people were against them? DON'T LIVE IN THE PROBLEM, LIVE IN THE SOLUTION!

Now, some things advertise themselves as solutions, but it's your responsibility to actually do what works best for you. *This also really depends on who you personally would consider a role-model. Some people look for different traits in people... I'm a fucking Aries-moon motherfucker, so I like that Martian get-shit-done kinda shit! If anything, I think these types of women started to see the world from their abusers' point of view, because their abusers would give the excuse: "I'm doing this to you because I'm a man and you're a woman, and that's just what men and women do", and it's like they just took that as face-value, instead of a lie. I have empathy. I understand that. I have reevaluated things in my own life, even if they're different. It's so funny how so many things follow the same patterns.

[drlamp-and-other-polyships]

Okay, let's make that pinned post x)

This blog is for sharing about polyships, polyamory in media, and just generally to have fun and geek out.

This is not exclusively an adult blog, but there will be adult themes. I will tag +18 content as "minors dni", so if you're a minor, please block that tag! If you want me to tag something specific, feel free to ask.

Just so we are clear, all identities, genders and pronouns are valid. Also I am proship, which means I do not condone violence over fiction. If any of these statements bother you, I believe you will enjoy yourself more on a different blog.

My favorite polyships include :

DRLAMP (Sanders Sides) AKA DLAMPR AKA polysanders : Janus x Remus x Logan x Virgil x Patton x Roman

Royono (Roleslaying with Roman) AKA Blood Red Song AKA the galaxy polycule : Roman x Youngblood x Noise

Stomco (Star vs the Forces of Evil) AKA Startomco AKA Starcotom AKA Tomstarco : Star x Tom x Marco

FameBlue (Steven Universe) : Holly Blue Agathe x the Famethyst

Lapamedot (Steven Universe) : Lapis Lazuli x Peridot x Amethyst

Chariskriel (Undertale) : Chara x Frisk x Asriel

Rajalagang (Sense8 [R17+]) : Rajan Rasal x Kala Dandekar x Wolfgang Bogdanow

Hertoni (Sense8 [R17+]) : Hernando Fuentes x Lito Rodriguez x Daniela Velasquez

The Boyfriends (Boyfriends webtoon) : Goth x Prep x Jock x Nerd

Main 6 poly route (The Arcana) : MC x Asra x Julian x Nadia x Portia x Muriel x Lucio

The cul-de-sac (Dream Daddy [R17+]) : Dadsona x Damian x Craig x Mat x Brian x Hugo x Robert x Joseph x Mary

Polyclan (Nu:Carnival [R18+]) : Eiden x Aster x Morvay x Yakumo x Edmond x Olivine x Quincy x Kuya x Garu x Blade x Dante

Johnlockary (Sherlock) : John Watson x Sherlock Holmes x Mary Watson

Elams (Hamilton) : Elizabeth Schuyler x John Laurens x Alexander Hamilton

Lunatic Bee (Helluva Boss [R18+]) : Loona x Vortex x Queen Bee

Chaggily (Hazbin Hotel [R16+]) AKA Charlie's angels AKA two and a half halos : Charlie Morningstar x Vaggie x Emily

A non-exhaustive list XD

I love to talk about ships, so if you like the same ships as me, don't hesitate to send an ask or a message! We can also talk about other ships, of course! ^^

[arc-gx]

ahem this was supposed to be posted on my art blog @art-gx but i fucked up and wrote it on my main instead so uh. go follow that blog if you want to see me post art every few decades. thanks. on to your regularly scheduled program

this is so very very late but uh. i have good reason it took so long i think. maybe idk. but here @dante1138 i finally finished

welcome back to aris draws one thing every century or so and it looks completely different from the last drawing because i am nothing if not consistently inconsistent.

anyways, on to more relevant discussion; HOLY FUCK DANTE 700 FOLLOWERS THAT'S ALMOST TO 1000 BASICALLY!!! The fact that you're not only my mutual but an amazing friend and so talented and cool and dare i say fashionable is just. thank you for existing. you absolutely deserve this and i can't wait to see that number hit the big 1K!

in all likelihood the 'hiding stuff by making it white so it only shows up when you click' thing probably didn't really work, especially since it's not even the right shade but ʅ（• •）ʃ

image description and some variations without text and me talking more underneath the cut

[image ID: A digital drawing for @dante1138's 700 followers dtiys. Virgil is dressed in his jacket, a ripped lavender crop top, a skirt, and semi-translucent fishnet leggings. He's perched on top of a room in a round potion bottle corked on top and cluttered with pillows, cats, and posters. The diversity queer pride flag and nonbinary pride flag hang on the bottle's walls and lights drape from the ceiling. the drawing has "Congrats on 700 followers" across the front and various asides written around in the background. end ID]

[image ID: five other versions of the drawing without writing, three of which feature virgil with slightly different hairstyles, and the last two which show just the bottle, one with a transparent background and the other with a white background. end ID]

pretty happy with how the bottle came out! i loved doing all the details and stuff and getting the perspective right. i still cannot draw humans satisfactorily for me tho :/ most of my struggle was getting the legs right and then trying to make the hair look right and idk if i succeeded but. i can still be proud of this cause it's still improvement

[magpiemorality]

"You're such a dork." With prinxiety, maybe? 💜❤

AO3

***

Valentine’s Day was a load of crock. It wasn’t even debatable at this point, it was just fact. Virgil had literally sooooo much proof that it was all a capitalist money-making scheme designed for and to propagate heterosexuals, that he could probably write a book. He’d sent that exact text to his brother that morning actually; ‘lol should I write a book bout valentines being FAKE NEWS or wut sorry caps lock shrug.emoji’. 

Dante hadn’t replied beyond a few laughing smileys but such was the way of brothers. It was the thought that counted. 

(Actually Virgil suspected Dante was secretly enjoying being all lovey-dovey with his new husband for their first Valentine’s as a married couple, the traitor.)

Unfortunately for Virgil, he also found himself in a new relationship of his own on this particular February 14th. It was unfortunate for several reasons; firstly because all of the fancy ass chocolate on display everywhere was calling his name so loud he’d had to turn his headphones up dangerously high when he’d gone to and from classes, avoiding the high street and reassuring himself that it would be cheaper from tomorrow anyway. Secondly because he was feeling kinda lovey-dovey too, over his super awesome and gorgeous and talented boyfriend of four months, and it was pretty hard to resist the lure of the romance of it all. But most importantly thirdly; because Roman Delacroix was the single most romantic person he’d ever met, and Virgil was kinda curious what he’d cook up for the most romantic day of the year. The thirdly was only unfortunate because Roman was very well versed in his disgust for the day by now, and would almost certainly have put serious effort into not being overly romantic for the occasion, which was… 

Mildly disappointing. 

He sighed and hurried back to his dorm, shaking his had to get rid of the traitorous thinking, but there was still a part of him that made his heart beat a little faster when he got to the door and pushed it open, wondering if maybe, just maybe, Roman had somehow got inside and decorated and was waiting to surprise him with- Nothing. It was just as it always was, with Remy’s bed rumpled and unmade and empty and his own neatly folded and equally as empty. Oh well. 

Maybe next-

“Guess who?” A smooth, low voice made him jump, as hands covered his eyes from behind. He relaxed after the initial panic, turning in Roman’s arms to greet him with a soft kiss. “No, that’s not how this works,” his boyfriend protested with a grin and a chuckle, going back for another kiss. “Hey beautiful. Come here often?” 

“It’s literally my room, you’re such a dork.” Virgil rolled his eyes but Roman kissed a smile back onto his lips. “Thought you had rehearsal tonight, no?” 

Roman scoffed, tossing his head proudly. “And miss my favourite holiday of them all? I know! I know what you’re gonna say, but hear me out?”

Virgil pursed his lips, heart hammering in growing anticipation and hope. “Okay, you have my attention.” 

“Great!” Roman beamed. Shit, he was so pretty though? “I know you don’t like all the uh, frou-frou, but how about you and I go hit up the shops before they close and pick us some crazy cosy onesies like I know you’ve been wanting to, and like a buttload of snacks, and then come back here and watch movies all night and cuddle a bit? Sounds good, huh?” He wiggled his eyebrows and Virgil couldn’t help but snort, smothering his giggles. “That, my dear captivating corvid, looks like it’s going to be a yes. Am I right?” 

“You’re such a dork. Yes of course. As long as I can get J-”

“Jack Skellington. I know.”

Virgil melted in his general direction. “I love you.” 

“… Gay.” 

“Roman!” 

[gattmammon]

Fanfiction is a specific genre borne of the idea of author's creative rights that downright didn't exist before a certain time.

This got long, the rest is under here.

Some people place the birth of the idea of intellectual property earlier, some people later (it's actually a very cool conversation to have) but it's definitely after the middle ages. In Dante's time authors sill vastly operated under the idea that taking from your predecessor wasn't only fine but recommended and ideas belonged to whomever could use them well. Fanfiction as a concept is inseparable instead from the idea that you are "taking" from somebody else, which implies property. To make a comparison with visual arts: most masterpieces of medieval art (pre reinassance) not only aren't signed, but repeat the same few core characters and figurative elements over and over, because what artists did wasn't express themselves but create something for the glory of God. At the same time, Dante isn't putting all of those stories together just because he likes them: he's creating an encyclopedia, putting an order to the world. It's not a variation on a theme that "belongs" to somebody else, it's taking ideas that belonged to everybody in Dante's mentality and placing them carefully in a grand design.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that fanfiction can't be good writing or even art, or that it isn't worth of academic study. I am saying that the origin of fanfiction as a genre in itself make it impossible to compare to Dante.

You think you're doing some sort of super cool academia gotcha when you compare whatever random thing to fanfic without regard for wider cultural context but actually what you're doing is proving to academics you understand neither really.

The other thing: why is it always Dante? Shakespeare takes plenty of ideas from older authors. So does Chaucer, at that, to the point that you could argue, following your own logic, that Chaucher is writing Boccaccio fanfic. But it's always falling back on Dante or Virgil at most, and you wanna know why? Because this discussion is almost always held in the Anglosphere, in which nobody has any emotional or cultural attachment to Dante's poetry, nor the knowledge of the cultural context to explain why the reasoning is wrong.

Third and last point: if you really, truly think Dante is fanfic, then what is it fanfic of? You should be able to answer that if it truly is fanfic, right? Fanfic is defined by its being derivative. if nothing of the original remains then it's fair to consider it original art, right?

You say: it's fanfic of the Bible! Wrong. Very few elements come from the Bible in the Divine Comedy. Ok, you say, then it's the Aeneid, right? Vergil *wrote* the Aeneid, he's not in it. It's like claiming a biography of Jane Austen is Pride and Prejudice fanfic. Besides him there's like... Three characters from the Aeneid mentioned. There are more from the Odyssey IIRC! It's fanfic, you say, because it's a self-insert... Self-insert fiction was a thing long before fanfic, and there's plenty of fanfic that is not self-instert. "but based on common tropes we can compare the two!" Ok, yeah, sure, but saying "X has things in common with Y" isn't the same as saying "X is Y", which is what we are having a problem with here. Fanfiction, again, is defined by its relationship with an existing property, not by the tropes contained within.

So, what is the Divine Comedy a fanfiction of? Can you find me the single work of art Dante derived a recognizable set of characters and/or settings from? Or is it possible that perhaps your opinion is wrong, and the Divine Comedy is a complex work of art that is indeed in a relationship with many other works of art, but not in a way that can be compared to a modern fanfic?

The argument here isn't that fanfic is bad, at least not for me. The argument is that calling Dante fanfic is wrong for reasons that aren't really dependent on the quality of either.

i’m sorry i can’t let this go but mr. durante di alighiero degli alighieri, commonly known as dante, didn’t spend his life becoming one of the most cultured men, not just of his time, but of all times, writing more than 14k hendecasyllables divided into tercets with strict rhyming scheme, scrupulously sprinkled with symbolism, allegories, a monstrous number of rhetorical figures, and a frankly unparalleled command of not just the language and the poetic medium, but of history, literature, politics, philosophy, and theology as well, carefully building a figurative cross section of medieval society denouncing its vices and highlighting its virtues with astonishing clarity of mind, often unveiling paradigms of human experience which transcend time and space and are still extremely relevant to today’s world, defining the italian language and a significant portion of western literature art and culture in the process just for you all to log into tumblr.com and write ‘it’s self-insert fan fiction lol’ and call it a day. i will kill you

[earlgraytay]

@bmpixy and @sacrilegious-divinity both asked me to clarify, so:

The thing I was mostly comparing is the experience the works provide- the way you feel when going through them, the way that the strengths and flaws of the works in question affect the reader/player, and the way the creator's Opinions very much shape how you feel about the work.

the Divine Comedy and the Metal Gear games are both incredibly innovative works of art that take a form that's familiar to the reader and push it past all limits. reading an epic poem that's in your language would have been just as wild to the original readers of the Comedy as "You Like Castlevania, Don't You" is to a Metal Gear player.

the works are also both covered in the fingerprints of one creator, who has his own interests that sometimes get in the way of the work's themes. in Kojima's case, he's a pacifist who loves guns and war machines and explosions, and so sometimes he gets caught up in his own WOW COOL ROBOT. in Dante's case, he's a devout Christian.... who has a lot of sympathy for certain kinds of sinners, and loves inventing weird and horrible forms of torture. there's a reason Inferno is the part of the Comedy everyone remembers, which is absolutely not what Dante wanted.

both the Comedy and the Metal Gear games mostly convey their story through long, discursive conversations that sometimes get away from the writer. you could absolutely put one of Dante and Virgil's conversations about, like, mythology or science into the form of a codec conversation, and other than the terza rima, it would not be out of place.

and of course... both the Comedy and Metal Gear are ham-handedly political, even by the standards of the time, place, and genre. like, subtlety in literature is more modern than pants, don't get me wrong, but even by medieval standards, the Comedy is as political about corruption in the Church and the slow decline of Italy- and about as unsubtle about it- as the Metal Gear games are political about pacifism. you cannot walk away from either work without knowing that the author has an Axe To Grind, provided you're aware of the context.

am I saying that these works are of equal quality or equal importance? no. but the experience of reading Inferno as a medieval Italian is probably not too dissimilar to the experience of playing Metal Gear as a modern gamer.

today's horrible lowbrow/highbrow thought:

the fiction that is closest to the Divine Comedy for a modern reader is likely to be the Metal Gear series